Maybe they did that after feedback from other people?
I know that when I play the trilogy games myself, I tend to stick to 4 powers only and the other 4 slots were for my squad powers.
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Mass Effect: Andromeda's skill/class/levelling system explained (by me)
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
Maybe they did that after feedback from other people?
I know that when I play the trilogy games myself, I tend to stick to 4 powers only and the other 4 slots were for my squad powers.
Sounds all good to me then really. I'll just play as I used to and spec myself a vanguard or a soldier or a tech specialist and not branch out much if at all. If it's like the other games numerous playthroughs won't be a problem. I am concerned about only having 3 active abilities at once. Like for a biotic ideally if I picked 3 it would be stasis, warp, and singularity but I'd miss having access to throw, pull for faster CC. I know squad mates can make up for that but still it's seems very limited.
ME3 already had the issue that some skill combos were good enough that you could pretty much fully rely on them, and cooldowns were almost nothing.
But you also had more options at your disposal if you needed it, simply wanted it. Options that are now gone.
I don't think Dragon Age has any bearing on Mass Effect, at least not in this area. Dragon Age is after all meant to be strategic and this, along with an optional top-down view, makes it a more detached experience than Mass Effect is.
In Mass Effect they really wanted you to feel that you were Shepard, and I think it's going to be the same with Ryder. I wouldn't expect any kind of character switching.
It's the ultimate knee-jerk reaction: "THEY'RE JUST TURNING IT INTO COD!!1!"
It also appears the skills are more flexible in MEA, with each skill having a different function when you hold the button as opposed to pressing it.
This is perhaps also a PC v console difference thing for ME3, but considering you only had 3 skills mapped to buttons on console anyway, with one squad power mapped to left and right on the Dpad per character, I think the end result is going to be virtually identical but with deeper application of the number of powers. It was always better to upgrade the powers you use in ME3 than unlock all of them and I suspect MEA will be similar.
That's not true. There's no detail on how it works without the power wheel but Game Informer confirmed that squad order were still in
I think they just ran out of button and really wanted to make the combat as fluid as ME3 MP
DA:I is not the template. There's whole news about that, whether you believe Bioware or not
Thanks for the write-up, it definitely helps to see (even a rough) outline of the system. The respeccing doesn't really bother me all that much, and flexible skill allocation is definitely better. Still, I'd probably prefer it if you had to go back to your ship or create a mobile station in order to switch profiles, both in order to add a tactical layer that requires you to plan ahead, and in order to fit the changes in play style into the game's lore.
I honestly don't understand why Bioware is being so stingy with information about the core aspects of this game. Given my investment in the franchise, my excitement for this game should be through the roof, but the muddied messaging makes that unnecessarily difficult.
I honestly don't understand why Bioware is being so stingy with information about the core aspects of this game. Given my investment in the franchise, my excitement for this game should be through the roof, but the muddied messaging makes that unnecessarily difficult.
Yes, traditional powerwheel is gone. Pausing still exists in order to swap out weapons and use consumables apparently, but not for issuing commands to squadmates or using skills. So limited to three; LB/LB+RB/RB.
Basically built off of ME3 multiplayer which was somewhat the same with three mapped powers.
Ah, glad that someone noticed the whole 3 active powers.
Has it been confirmed that it's the max limit? - Because that's a major concern for me.
I'm mostly ok with choosing the skills from all the original classes, but having only 3 active powers it's way too limiting. (even if each has 2 modes, because the cooldown is going to be the same anyway).
Not looking forward to pick tons of armor/weapons with slightly increased statistics either. ME2 really improved on that, not sure why the developers brought it back.
And I hope that GUI is only for consoles, because it looks both horrible, and way too cumbersome for PC mouse usage.
Has it been confirmed that it's the max limit? - Because that's a major concern for me.
I'm mostly ok with choosing the skills from all the original classes, but having only 3 active powers it's way too limiting. (even if each has 2 modes, because the cooldown is going to be the same anyway).
Not looking forward to pick tons of armor/weapons with slightly increased statistics either. ME2 really improved on that, not sure why the developers brought it back.
And I hope that GUI is only for consoles, because it looks both horrible, and way too cumbersome for PC mouse usage.
You absolutely had access to everything on console. You just had to pause the game and access it on the wheel, something which I didn't have an issue with.
Sure, I expect you will be able to get their attention by pressing the d-pad just like in previous games. Pointing at the ground? Go there. Pointing at an enemy? Attack it. Maybe there's more to this, but even that simple stuff would qualify as squad orders. Just not the interesting kind of orders.
UserDoesNotExist
Member
This system feels like there was an internal struggle at Bioware between a traditional class system and a Skyrim clone, neither side was willing to budge, and they had to come to a compromise.
I'm also worried about 3 max powers, but I was also worried about D3 having only 4 abilities at a time. Blizzard pulled that off, so maybe Bioware can too.
I'm also worried about 3 max powers, but I was also worried about D3 having only 4 abilities at a time. Blizzard pulled that off, so maybe Bioware can too.
Well... That sucks.
Well they're back to individual power cooldowns which is nice and many powers have variable functions based on whether you tap or hold the button. But yeah it doesn't sound ideal.
That said I didn't love or hate the ability limit in DAI. It was the least of my issues with combat and game in general. I was more annoyed by the lack of clear and substantial ability combos, wonky controls, crumby terrain and lackluster encounter design resulting in bullet sponge enemies on higher difficulties. The fact that I only had access to 8 abilities wasn't ever really an issue.
I know you did, what I said was you had three powers mapped to buttons. Personally I always felt accessing the wheel was clunky and interrupted the gameplay in a negative way, so I rarely used it. Mass Effect encounter design is generally balanced around using a few powers + having squadmates anyway with how the armor/shield/barrier system works.
PIMPBYBLUD
Member
Why the hell does it take one of our own to explain this? I remember with Mass Effect 1 they had those awesome trailers explaining what the hell is going on, (ex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Li2MIGxOww).
Come on BioWare get your shit together. That was a sloppy ass trailer for such a beloved series.
Come on BioWare get your shit together. That was a sloppy ass trailer for such a beloved series.
Florida_Man_5000
Member
First, I'm just speculating for fun, and i being clear about that. But the context of what I'm suggesting is, DA-I could be played as an ARPG, and in combat you could play as all characters in your party. You just hit direction pad l/r to switch and bam, you're Dorian. That's just a pretty simple assumption of how a party ARPG might work without the combat wheel in ME from before. But I don't know, maybe the tap/hold thing that some have picked up on is how squad powers are handled. I agree that how this is handled will matter significantly to how fluid combat feels. Just have to wait and see.
Doesn't this basically mean there doesn't need to be any real strategy? Just switch to whatever class you like and beat up the bad guys. I mean I guess they could go Devil May Cry with the way it handles weapon switching, but something tells me that's not the point.
I'm also trying to think of what effect this has on team dynamics.
I'm also trying to think of what effect this has on team dynamics.
I personally have a very positive outlook on the new system. Allowing me to hone, or grow into, a specialization/class based on the skills I choose to develop feels a lot more freeing to me personally, rather than picking a class/specialization on the outset.
I don't see how this limits anyone's ability to roleplay as this just makes ability access (or lack thereof) more self-imposed rather than being decided by the game. I'm sure there will be lore reasons as to why you can do so, if you need some kind of embedded justification. You probably won't be able to be all powerful by just playing through a single campaign. Even if you can, it's still up to you to decide to actually make your character that way. Overall, as far as I remember, your character class never had much of an impact on how you interacted with the world other than combat in the Mass Effect franchise anyway. I'm all for options and build variety.
Lastly, new mechanic of allowing the player to switch specializations on the fly might actually prove more positive when it comes to the usefulness of your companions in combat. Because my class was determined at the start, there was a set group of companions that would be the most useful in combat scenarios. Now, you have the option to take whichever companions with you and adjust your class accordingly.
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I don't see how this limits anyone's ability to roleplay as this just makes ability access (or lack thereof) more self-imposed rather than being decided by the game. I'm sure there will be lore reasons as to why you can do so, if you need some kind of embedded justification. You probably won't be able to be all powerful by just playing through a single campaign. Even if you can, it's still up to you to decide to actually make your character that way. Overall, as far as I remember, your character class never had much of an impact on how you interacted with the world other than combat in the Mass Effect franchise anyway. I'm all for options and build variety.
Lastly, new mechanic of allowing the player to switch specializations on the fly might actually prove more positive when it comes to the usefulness of your companions in combat. Because my class was determined at the start, there was a set group of companions that would be the most useful in combat scenarios. Now, you have the option to take whichever companions with you and adjust your class accordingly.
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John Kowalski
Banned
Oh wow, free class changes? That's really cool. I was just thinking of a system like that the other day.
I think Enduin's post above highlights why the "switch to any class and win" thing won't be an actual thing: finite skill points.
Monocle
Member
Sounds so good. I think this new system will suit my playing style very well. I've never really enjoyed having my character's abilities limited by class. It's going to be great to have the freedom to experiment with new skills and combat approaches. I am all about unconstrained exploration. I love to fiddle and try things with an adaptable toolset.
Thanks for the breakdown!
Thanks for the breakdown!
StereoVsn
Member
Limit of 3 active skills in a system like that is puzzling then. Playing a biotic you would want 4-5 powers normally, maybe more.
Yes, it's TPS but the point still stands. COD has some RPG elements, deeper storyline, side quests and deeper character interaction then before. They are quite close to ME 2&3 formula.
Mass Effect 2 and 3 are pretty much space TPS with RPG elements. I enjoyed them quite a bit, certainly, especially 2, but overall they were much closer to a shooter then RPG.
FunkyDealer
Banned
I think it sounds pretty good based on this writeup. Allowing the player to try various skills without starting a new save. It also allows the player to create a more custom character, heavily specialized or jack of all trades.
I always felt like thr original trilogy was a bit too rigid in this regard.
I always felt like thr original trilogy was a bit too rigid in this regard.
This is how a view them as well. They are good games, 3 less than 2, but they have a lot more in common with games such Gears of War than NWN or D:OS.
Er, yeah, but so is Mass Effect 1. It's not more of an RPG than a shooter just because it's a bad shooter.
I really like his point as well! I think that the new profiles, although they have the same names as classes from the past ME games, are more akin to a perk that boost specific stats, but are dependent on the skills you've leveled up to determine their bonus.
Given the three skill limit from the footage we have seen, I wonder how certain profiles perks (like the drone for the engineer) will be mapped to our controllers.
Hmm. Are the perks even activated by the player? The soldier one reads as entirely passive. It's possible the drone is just always there in combat.
I think people believe that because ME1 had loot, it counts more as a RPG or something. Or because it rely less on cover?
I dunno, it's the only things I can think about. I guess Andromeda will make these people happy since it seems to have brought back those and more?
Yup, all of it sound passive so far. One of the Tech skills is Remnant AI which itself is a Tech Drone. So yeah Classes really do seem to just be role specific Bonus titles.
I do wonder if the passive Skills only apply if you have the related Class selected, but I doubt that. That seems needlessly complicated.
shinobi602
Member
No, no it hasn't been said.
DeadlyParasite
Member
Kudos to EatChildren for the thread, I don't particularly understand the system yet but I like how it seems to be pretty in-depth and I look forward to learning about it as I play.
Professor Lich
Member
Thanks for the awesome right up!
One thing I'm wondering about, is that a socket on the armor in the last image? If I remember correctly, that's how ME1 handled stuff like ammo and other little bonuses right? The better the armor, the more room you had.
One thing I'm wondering about, is that a socket on the armor in the last image? If I remember correctly, that's how ME1 handled stuff like ammo and other little bonuses right? The better the armor, the more room you had.
Mass Effect
Member
From what I've seen and how I understand it (with the help of this write-up too), it sounds fine to me. Let's people explore options without having to create a whole new character. Also sounds like you can mix and match moreso than the other games.
Hell, even games like Dark Souls allow you to re-spec these days. As long as you can't do it arbitrarily and during combat it will be fine.
I hope you're right. Otherwise people will be coming at you with the pitchforks lol
Hell, even games like Dark Souls allow you to re-spec these days. As long as you can't do it arbitrarily and during combat it will be fine.
I hope you're right. Otherwise people will be coming at you with the pitchforks lol
Frozenprince
Banned
"It stopped being an RPG after the first one" having numbers show up when you shoot your gun and meaningless loot with slightly different damage variables that have marginal effects on the game unless you move up a tier isn't particularly compelling RPG material.
It's not "less" of an RPG just because the numbers don't show up anymore and your gear was more streamlined so that your choices, gasp, had consequence.
ME1 might be a "better RPG" but boy fucking howdy was it a CHORE to play. A cover based shooter where the cover only works half the time, great job.
It's not "less" of an RPG just because the numbers don't show up anymore and your gear was more streamlined so that your choices, gasp, had consequence.
ME1 might be a "better RPG" but boy fucking howdy was it a CHORE to play. A cover based shooter where the cover only works half the time, great job.
That a very plausible option! I just assumed that those skills would be activated, but that wouldn't make sense with the soldier profile (not that I'm going to play anything but a sentinel profile anyway haha).
Frozenprince
Banned
I still have my vanguard charge.
All I care about.
All I care about.
It seems similar to Kingdom of Amalur. You can pick whatever skills you want and based on what you pick you can select different "destinies" or in this case "profiles" to give buffs.
The more I invest in magic in that game the higher level magic "destinies" and buffs I could get. I would assume in this the more biotic skill I unlock the higher level my adept profile and better buffs like biotic force and lower cooldown.
EDit: word change, changed twist of fate to destinies. I remembered wrong.
The more I invest in magic in that game the higher level magic "destinies" and buffs I could get. I would assume in this the more biotic skill I unlock the higher level my adept profile and better buffs like biotic force and lower cooldown.
EDit: word change, changed twist of fate to destinies. I remembered wrong.
Maybe they should give you the final pieces of equipment right in the beginning too since you paid for the game. Why waste time grinding I paid for the game so I deserve everything. By the same logic they should stop making alternate conversation for story events depending who is in your party or stop giving choices that alter mission since you can't see them all in a single playthrough.
I really don't mind they are trying something new. It's time to shake things up a bit but the rationalization here is hilarious. From a story perspective it won't make sense since you are no N7 just the kid of someone famous and yet you master all these techs and biotics?
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Great OP. Personally I don't like the change - for me it's dumbing down. I like choosing a class and sticking with it for the duration of the game - role playing.
I will miss the old mass effect system - but as long as I can use my old Adept powers I will still enjoy it
Don't worry. It might be dumbed down but they got this instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzkCmidjeHc
TC McQueen
Member
Oh God, we've got stats affecting weapon accuracy again? I just hope it's reticule bloom, not ME1's "you shoot at a target's head in front of you and the shot can hit them in the lower chest" accuracy bullshit.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
As a fan of Dark Souls games, this sounds great to me. I did several playthroughs in ME and ME2 (not ME3 because it was shit), and each class was distinct enough that being able to experience all without playing different playthroughs is ideal for me.
Just one thing:
Bloodborne don't allow respecing. Don't know why, but is not there.
Just one thing:
Bloodborne don't allow respecing. Don't know why, but is not there.
It's a sci-fi game. They can explain away anything. Currently it appears to justified that you are augmented with certain implants, probably something experimental for the Pathfinder program. The Andromeda intro site vids even say you'll be trained in the various forms of combat. Yeah it's a bit wonky, but so is the idea that a kagillion dollar Extra-Galactic program was cooked up to depart right before ME3 when the galactic powers at the time could barely come together to work on a possible galactic ending invasion, let alone a money sink that is a one way, 600 year, trip to another galaxy.
Oh god, i totally forgot about that. Remember seeing this clip for the first time right after finishing DA:O. That really bumbed me out.