martino
Member
they are mixing roleplay and charac build.
you can roleplay in range to highly adequate to inadequate toward it (probably with fitting consequences at least when rpg on paper).
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Mass Effect: Andromeda's skill/class/levelling system explained (by me)
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
they are mixing roleplay and charac build.
you can roleplay in range to highly adequate to inadequate toward it (probably with fitting consequences at least when rpg on paper).
cleveridea
Member
Great info thanks for posting this
Sad that slow time has gone for the soldier, this also means that vanguard heavy charge no longer has slow time after heavy charge in SP
Very excited to play the game after hearing the details here.
Sad that slow time has gone for the soldier, this also means that vanguard heavy charge no longer has slow time after heavy charge in SP
Very excited to play the game after hearing the details here.
Yup. I was about to say the same exact thing. The data of how much the Soldier class was so dominant HAS to be a big factor in the change as well.
Because they market it as RPG, therefore one should expect it to, you know, have RPG mechanics
Spacecowboy77
Member
Great write-up, thanks!
MrFrankFontaine
Banned
Thanks for the write up! Makes a lot more sense in the context you provided.
Florida_Man_5000
Member
OP- I think there is much more to this progression than you have listed, but I know that you know (haha). The real awesomeness of ME 3 multi-player was team synergies and character combo explosions and if you look at the spec page you can see two characters available for spec points. In single player I suspect you can switch to them on the fly, AND hotkey your squads powers in some way, to achieve that effect. So you really have to think about your squads composition and it's synergies for different enemy engagements.
ME3 multi-player added more complexity like (the obvious) having 3 shield types (barrier, shield, armor) and then finally health. There was also more subtle mob vs tank mechanisms, aka, spec for maximum damage on one enemy, or area of effect on many. And that is just scratching the surface of combat complexity from ME3, which is surely expanded.
ME3 multi-player added more complexity like (the obvious) having 3 shield types (barrier, shield, armor) and then finally health. There was also more subtle mob vs tank mechanisms, aka, spec for maximum damage on one enemy, or area of effect on many. And that is just scratching the surface of combat complexity from ME3, which is surely expanded.
StereoVsn
Member
You are making hard choices though there. If you spec into melee or into energy and so on (whether Fallout 3, NV or 4), you normally don't have enough points to spec into everything else. Unless you cheat, use leveling bugs, etc... That's the whole point and it's similar in Witcher games. Here, it's all ephemeral and really looks like ME/COD/whatever load-outs with some XP grinding on top.
To me that's a turn off and not something i like seeing in SP RPGs. Of course ME stopped being a true RPG after ME1 and it's more of a TPS with RPG elements, but to each their own.
Yeah, I am out if this sort of shit makes it in. I just got the new COD for my space FPS fix.
Rellik
Member
Same, but the beauty of this is choice. If someone doesn't want to be locked in, they now have the ability to respec on the fly. If you want to stick to single spec, then you still can.
I just hope we don't end up with bunch of different ammos for loot like in ME1. I hated my own existence when I had to go through them terrible menus and sell/convert to gel all that trash.
...ok? But Mass Effect is not a space FPS. So whatever. But seeing how you think ME1 is the only "true" RPG, I think I already know your mindset on this franchise anyway...
From what little we've seen, you still need to unlock skills and thus, this would be similar to the games mentioned in your post.
"loadouts" seem to exist because you are limited to 3 skills at a time and you may want to swap out different skills at different times. and there's different bonis attatched to some presets.
I really like this change for one major reason: party members
With only 2 slots for team members to go with you in the Mass Effect trilogy, I always wanted a somewhat rounded-out team. This meant party members with similar skill sets to my Shepard often didn't get to go with me. I felt shoehorned into taking party members that complemented my build rather than those that were most interesting to me.
With only 2 slots for team members to go with you in the Mass Effect trilogy, I always wanted a somewhat rounded-out team. This meant party members with similar skill sets to my Shepard often didn't get to go with me. I felt shoehorned into taking party members that complemented my build rather than those that were most interesting to me.
You know ME is not a FPS right?
Florida_Man_5000
Member
I really like this direction for RPGS of focusing on the gameplay strategies by limiting the characters ability to become 'god' by speccing up. I usually just crush thru end of any RPG because I have every power to do so. This new format in Mass Effect (and others) allows you to become more powerful without breaking the end game challenge.
In past ME singleplayer, I could have overload for shields, fireshot for armor, biotic for barriers, ALL on Shepard. ME3 multi-player really limited individuals effectiveness against all types, which made team specs very important. Your character by itself will probably not be able to address all shield types anymore, and I think that's great. Speccing is way more important and complex now than before.
In past ME singleplayer, I could have overload for shields, fireshot for armor, biotic for barriers, ALL on Shepard. ME3 multi-player really limited individuals effectiveness against all types, which made team specs very important. Your character by itself will probably not be able to address all shield types anymore, and I think that's great. Speccing is way more important and complex now than before.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
This is good for getting people to try different classes. Asking people to make a concrete choice on playstyle before the game even begins is how you end up with 75% of players picking soldier.
Folks this is not your niche genre rpg, this is a game meant for mass consumption and not locking someone into a class for the duration of a 30+ hour game is necessary here.
Folks this is not your niche genre rpg, this is a game meant for mass consumption and not locking someone into a class for the duration of a 30+ hour game is necessary here.
Two points for this:
1. BioWare has said over and over that Ryder is a noob and thus doesn't actually have all that combat experience and sacrifice yet. Set classes made sense for Shepard because he was already a combat vet in the prime of his career. Ryder is basically just setting out for the first time. So a classless system makes sense for Ryder in this way and then if you like role-playing you can build him/her into whatever class you want.
2. You aren't going to be able to be an amazing biotic/tech/soldier on the fly. You still have finite skill points. If you try to be all three at once, the law of videogame specialization says you'll probably be ineffective at all 3. Especially since you have squadmates, you'll be better off specializing...unless you'd like the freedom to role-play someone who's a bit experienced in all areas which will unlock the Pathfinder profile.
Is it ME1 loot or is it ME3 weapon-style? IE you can upgrade different guns from I to X but there's still only one copy of that gun?
Respecs are imperative for long games now. I'm sorry that I have a life and can't replay a 60 hour game every time I find a new weapon or skill I want to try out. I simply don't care if other people feel like it waters down their experience to not be locked into one build for the entire game.
Simo
Member
Terrific breakdown OP!
As someone who just stuck with the soldier class through the trilogy I like this new change. It now allows me to try all the classes or "profiles" to play around with without having being locked to one specific one nor having to replay the game to try them out.
As someone who just stuck with the soldier class through the trilogy I like this new change. It now allows me to try all the classes or "profiles" to play around with without having being locked to one specific one nor having to replay the game to try them out.
That's like literally not at all what looks to be present here, nor what EatChildren outlined in the OP. The entire point of this new Character Progression system is based around making choices.
You gain EXP and level up. Leveling up grants you Skill Points, you spend those points freely on Combat/Biotic/Tech Skills. Your Skill selections determine which Profiles you have access to, which in turn confer bonuses related to those Skills, the more related Skills you acquire and upgrade the higher the rank in that Profile, thus increasing its associated bonuses.
Your Skill Points are limited and since Skill upgrades cost greater and greater amounts of Skill Points you will only gain very low level access to Skills and Profiles should you choose to acquire them all. Specialization rewards you with increased Skill effectiveness as well as increased Profile bonuses.
Profiles are simply another layer on top of a system that is pretty much the same as classic FO or TES. Instead of choosing a class or Skill affinities at the start that provide you with permanent point increase to certain Skills like in FO or TES it works in reverse. Your choice of Skills and how you upgrade them increases you affinities via the Profiles.
Players will have to weigh versatility vs proficiency. Do I want to be able to change my role in combat to fit a variety of situations but in so doing limit my overall effectiveness in any one role vs do I want to roll deep into one profile branch and be a powerhouse in that role at the cost of being less versatile in situations where my skillset isn't as effective. This is further bolstered by the fact that we are now limited to 3 Active Skills at any one moment. So again trying be a jack of all trades has diminishing returns as have access to 15 different Active Skills doesn't mean a whole lot if you are only able to actively use 3 at a time during combat.
Lostconfused
Member
Let's try using some good examples for games next time shall we.
What ARPG are you thinking of?
Lostconfused
Member
Ah my mistake, missed the "A" at the front there. Although I had no idea that From games allow you to freely respec and change your character now.
Great OP, thanks for taking the time to piece that together. All makes sense in the context of the game and not something that bothers me, certainly don't think of it as dumbing down - it's more choice, not less! You don't make an arbitrary choice at the start of the game before you really know what you've chosen 10-15 hours later.
The trailer did not show an ability to freely respec (though i expect the option to be there, just like it was in all other mass effects).
It showed how switching profiles work. This is not a respec. What profiles you can use is determined by what skills you have.
Judging by PeeBee's profile it looks like you gain 2 Skill Points per Level. Since she is level 27, appears to only have one start Skill(interestingly enough Invasion, not a biotic skill), and has 52 Skill Points. 52 Skill Points/26 levels up=2 points per level(I'm too lazy to do the math to figure out if they are doing diminishing Skill Points Per level like they have in the past which very well could be the case). With then each Skill Rank requiring 1 Skill Point per Rank. So to max up a Skill you will need 21 Skill Points.
Assuming we max out at level 100(though it could very well be 60 like ME/3 for some reason, not likely 30 like ME2) that means 198 Skill Points total which means you can max out 9.4 Skills total. Technically that means you can have 3 maxed skills in in each discipline of Combat/Tech/Biotics, but that would mean forgoing the acquisition of any Passive Skills which there appears to be at least three per Skill discipline. With then 9 active Skills per discipline if the Tech branch is the same for Combat/Biotics.
So in reality you will have enough Skill Points to max 3/4 of the skills in one combat discipline. This means that doing something like going for a hybrid class like Vanguard, Sentinel or Infiltrator means you can max out say 2 Passive Skills per branch, 2 Active Skills per branch and then max out a 3rd Passive or Active in either branch or divvy it up among some other Skills between them but not max them out.
All in all sounds like a solid setup. Not a lot of room in Skill Points to go Jack of all Trades and Master of them all.
Assuming we max out at level 100(though it could very well be 60 like ME/3 for some reason, not likely 30 like ME2) that means 198 Skill Points total which means you can max out 9.4 Skills total. Technically that means you can have 3 maxed skills in in each discipline of Combat/Tech/Biotics, but that would mean forgoing the acquisition of any Passive Skills which there appears to be at least three per Skill discipline. With then 9 active Skills per discipline if the Tech branch is the same for Combat/Biotics.
So in reality you will have enough Skill Points to max 3/4 of the skills in one combat discipline. This means that doing something like going for a hybrid class like Vanguard, Sentinel or Infiltrator means you can max out say 2 Passive Skills per branch, 2 Active Skills per branch and then max out a 3rd Passive or Active in either branch or divvy it up among some other Skills between them but not max them out.
All in all sounds like a solid setup. Not a lot of room in Skill Points to go Jack of all Trades and Master of them all.
Yeah, don't think this changes much for me. I'll probably go Engineer again, and I'll be very specialized in that role. Having options however ain't a bad thing.
If what OP has explained is true (and I think it is), this could actually be the most complex Mass Effect classes/skills have been yet.
It would allow you to mix and match and build the character you want to play through use of skills you like. Not being locked into a template seems like the opposite of "dumbing down".
It would allow you to mix and match and build the character you want to play through use of skills you like. Not being locked into a template seems like the opposite of "dumbing down".
Exploratory
Banned
I don't like the change but I'm willing to give it a chance. Just feels like you lose something by breaking down the classes like that.
What did he mean by this?
Member
For me, Mass Effect replayability came from wanting to try a new class, making new choices and romancing new people
The two latter things are big, but the bulk of the game is that combat -- so I worry if this new flexible, near-homogenized system will keep my interest. I much prefer rigid choices in my rpgs, not flexibility.
The two latter things are big, but the bulk of the game is that combat -- so I worry if this new flexible, near-homogenized system will keep my interest. I much prefer rigid choices in my rpgs, not flexibility.
RedlineRonin
Member
Bingo. This is what i said in the other thread. I don't have the luxury of replaying games like this three times to see the skill trees (nor would i probably want to, just for that reason?) but I'm paying for the game, so I'd like to see all, or at least as much as possible, of what it has to offer in quite possibly my only playthrough.
i'd also be down if they chose to weave in narrative reasons why you'd switch up classes throughout the story, but it's not necessary for me. In fact it would be a great way to ensure they're leveraging all the assets they spent time building.
i don't disagree with the comment above about rationalizing your own head canon either, but life is a sequence of trade offs, and i'd rather be able to play all these classes and deal with a bit of dissonance (if any) instead of the alternative.
Yes, they are mapped to LB, LB+RB and RB in the trailer. Doesn't appear to be an radial wheel or anything like that.
WTH???!!! Great so now I can be a versitile Adept biotic or an a quick tech specialist, all because, "Well most people dont use all their abilities anyway". I did damnit !!!
Im really not liking modern Bioware
WTH???!!! Great so now I can be a versitile Adept biotic or an a quick tech specialist, all because, "Well most people dont use all their abilities anyway". I did damnit !!!
Im really not liking modern Bioware
Well much like DAI I think it's an attempt to make you consider your loadout and compaions and their loadouts, as they too are limited to 3 it seems, prior to deployment/engagement with enemies.
It's also a check on the new classless system as you can technically acquire like a billion Skills if you really want. I wish it was higher, like 5, and they still had the radial wheel and pausing, but it seems that's out.
I expected this but I'm still really bummed out.
In ME3, you had access to at least five abilities for your own character, and another ten or so from your squad, for a combined 15+ abilities to use in combat.
In Andromeda, this has been reduced down to three, because that's what you have yourself and you can't give your squad orders anymore. Three is disappointingly little. It's what you had in the ME3 multiplayer, which was cool and all, but for singleplayer? Three. Fucking three.
In ME3, you had access to at least five abilities for your own character, and another ten or so from your squad, for a combined 15+ abilities to use in combat.
In Andromeda, this has been reduced down to three, because that's what you have yourself and you can't give your squad orders anymore. Three is disappointingly little. It's what you had in the ME3 multiplayer, which was cool and all, but for singleplayer? Three. Fucking three.
Well it was kind of a needlessly restricting system in DAI but I suppose given the skills you could acquire and that you had access to 7 skills at any point, it was tolerable.However in MEA your companion abilities only have 1 ability button and you have access to 3, it artifitially limits your sandbox abilities and for what? For some superficial sense of tactical consideration and thought? F that noise.
Florida_Man_5000
Member
Yeah I don't love it, like I said I would prefer 5. But that said many abilities do at least seem to have variable uses based on whether you tap or long press them. So there's that at least. Fewer active skills, but more depth to those available.
I'd be shocked, but delighted, if it was true that you could switch between characters like you could in KotOR. Source for this?
But I don't think you can tell squaddie 1 to use Singularity and squaddie 2 to use Warp on it while you are using your tech stuff. Because the ability wheel is gone.
Florida_Man_5000
Member
Justice_Bolt
Member
3 skills limit is low...I wonder why they choosed this. Literally everyone would like to be able to use more skills.