PsychoSoldier
Banned
Indeed it will be. Start hoarding those Valve dollars before it's too late!
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Mass Effect Fans Donate $80,000 to Charity to Help Change the Ending of Mass Effect 3
- Thread starter Jarmel
- Start date
Indeed it will be. Start hoarding those Valve dollars before it's too late!
People are pulling their donations because they're confused. Not because the concept of making a point by giving to charity somehow means its not charity. I don't think Tycho ever even alluded to that being the case.
What world do you live in where charities don't do this?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I don't know.
There was a time that any gaming was done on a capable PC or console exclusively. Now you can get fairly in-depth if not artistically bankrupt and vapid games on your browser. Let alone the experiences phones have today.
Valve/Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony might all be fighting a losing battle.
In what world do you live in where a video game ending is such a drastic, offensive and potentially harmful topic for a charity to accept?
jakonovski
Member
This Child's Play pick and choose by Penny Arcade is the pettiest thing I've read in a long time.
But it was harmful to the charity in this case. Some people thought they were paying for a new ending.
A charity doesn't want to be in the position where people feel their donated money is doing anything else besides the aim of the organization. In this case, making life better for really sick kids.
So Child's Play should drop their mission of taking donations for the sake of helping terminally ill children and instead, take the time and money to say "Hey, uh, Bioware, we've got some fans here that think your ending's shit. You might wanna get on that." They might disagree that such a thing is to be a priority. Not to mention they're already getting some shaky feelings from other donors who also didn't see how this jelled with their mission statement.
Here's the thing: I don't care about the ending one way or another. A) I haven't seen it and B) I can assure you that whatever tripe you saw at the end of ME3 can't hold a candle to the pathetic excuses for endings I saw growing up that really made me feel like I wasted my time. The only one of us that is saying this is a "drastic" topic is you, and you know what? You might just have a point.
That's where I start asking questions. Instead of getting Child's Play involved with an issue that isn't under its purview, why didn't RME start a charity to raise money solely on the merits of the ending needing to be fixed? Since when is it a charitable donation if you're asking for something in return, other than a receipt? Child's Play isn't a gun for hire where you give them money and get muscle in return, they have a very specific mission and it's in their interests not to deviate from them. If you and other games felt like donating to them, then fine: DONATE TO THEM. It's a great charity that does wonderful things. But don't treat them like you're hiring a lobbyist. You want a charitable fund for a new ending? Start your own. If Geohot can get money for legal fees, you can get money for this. Just don't put it on Child's Play when they insist on adhering to their mission statement. And don't automatically assume that a Mass Effect Marathon for that charity is some underhanded play by EA.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Your posts are bad, and you should feel bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG2KMkQLZmI
Nobody was asking for anything. This wasn't "some underhanded ploy" to get a new ending. This was an extension of people saying the ending sucked, letting Bioware know that we wanted it fixed, and as a way to vent frustration to a good cause.
Apparently some people were confused. I imagine they were a vocal minority, if you will, which I know you will based on your posts. As I said earlier, asking for the money back is pretty shitty. Redittors asking for money back because they are frustrated with the charity management is even worse, in my opinion.
I have no problem with them pulling the plug. But you have completely missed the point on this and other issues in your previous posts in this thread.
Okay. It makes it equivalent to handing the money to someone else who hands it to someone else who hands it directly to a video game company.
By this logic, a fuckload of Red Cross money goes straight to pharmaceutical companies.
Funny, I could've sworn Hero was asking why Child's Play wouldn't pick up the cause of a video game ending. Maybe by "charity" he meant the Red Cross.
From reading the destructoid article, it seemed like a lot of the people who were donating were doing it for the sake of publicity for their movement, rather than for the good of Child's Play. If that's an inaccurate picture to paint, well, my bad. But when I get posts asking me why a fucking Children's charity doesn't take up this charge, it tends to make think you're not doing this to help kids.
Phat Michael
Banned
I dont even think it was that bad but i agree with your sentiment that the END of third game had no impact on my enjoyment of the 1st and 2nd game.
People like to complain, the net gives them a voice. i just wish people actually enjoyed playing the game rather than enjoying complaining about playing it.
these ME3 threads are just so tired.
I donate to charities for tax credit! Kill me.
Princess Carl
Member
Having played none of the games, the ending is objectively terrible. I really don't see how you can see otherwise because it's reasons rest on plot holes and things that shouldn't happen inside the world they created.
Seriously though, I'm sorry for all of the people who invested into the first two games and then have it conclude like that. It's shameful on so many levels.
Really seems like another instance of racing to the bottom to see who can take the most bullshit and not by bothered by it. "I'm better than you because I can ignore things to look cool and you're a stupid gamer for caring. Right other nerds?!"
Seriously though, I'm sorry for all of the people who invested into the first two games and then have it conclude like that. It's shameful on so many levels.
Really seems like another instance of racing to the bottom to see who can take the most bullshit and not by bothered by it. "I'm better than you because I can ignore things to look cool and you're a stupid gamer for caring. Right other nerds?!"
Yes shame on me for enjoying Mass Effect, shame on us all.
WrenchNinja
Member
That was your first mistake.
Yep.
Wouldn't hurt to spell a few things out and find a way to make it all make sense. They shouldn't change the ending though.
I know. Almost makes me want to buy Mass Effect 2 off the Store right now to get ready to play Mass Effect 3 for myself.
Biggest winners in this controversial scenario: Bioware.
dragonelite
Member
Maybe some fans invest so much time into a universe/ip.
That knowing the end ruins everything. We got A,B,C ending.
While your choices dont reflect back into endings. So yeah a Ending as shitty as Vent kid has ruin my enjoyment of ME1 and ME2. I enjoyed them before the ending now it just meh what does it matters i already know how this concludes. And Bioware themselves raised expectation about the ending not being A,B,C just before release.
So yeah are games products using art or are they just art. Because so far i haven't had a book that ended a trilogy, tell me after the end to buy additional chapters to find out more about the main character. Or saw a painting that missing multiple squares out of it and after seeing it the painter comes up to me and ask me to buy the missing parts. So yeah games have never been art in my eyes just like movies they are products im paying for and they use a army of artist to make.
And i can now understand other that feel the same for other series. Which before Me3 ending happened i would laugh about it and thought what a sad bunch that a game series has such a impact on their lifes. It has given me a new perspective and bioware has to work hard to get my hard earned money day 1. And the gaming press once again sided with the publisher but i can understand that we dont life in a perfect world.
/bad engrish
MooseKnuckles
Banned
I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. I have no problem with game companies getting money from the sale of their products.
All I'm saying is that I find it disheartening that people would ask for a refund for their donation, because to me that seems to suggest they would rather make a charitable donation to Bioware than to Child's Play.
Pick your favourite colour from blue, red or green
michaeltraps
Member
Seems that another part of their decision to drop this particular campaign was due to the fact that they were playing customer service for a cause that didn't clearly spell out what people's donations were for. Having to field calls and explain to donators that their money isn't buying them another ending has to take up resources that need to be spent elsewhere.
Although intentions were in the right place with this fund raising campaign, it does come across as a little underhanded and an attention grab, no matter how much good the money could do (at least, that was my first impression). Added to the fact that a percentage of gift givers didn't know what the money was for just murks the waters up even more. You should give to Child's Play because you want to, not because you think you'll bully a company into changing their game with good will.
Although intentions were in the right place with this fund raising campaign, it does come across as a little underhanded and an attention grab, no matter how much good the money could do (at least, that was my first impression). Added to the fact that a percentage of gift givers didn't know what the money was for just murks the waters up even more. You should give to Child's Play because you want to, not because you think you'll bully a company into changing their game with good will.
To be fair, one would think that the charity or whoever is heading it would just... put a disclaimer explicitly stating where the donations would be going for clarification purposes. If the problem is one of miscommunication and misinformation, you actually try to give the correct information, not just pick-up your ball and go home like Child's Play did.
I can definitely understand why they halted it, but this absolutely baffles me when considering a full disclaimer would have been in no way, shape, or form a significant drain on resources.
littleworm said:
Forgive me if others have addressed this point already -- I haven't read all the posts -- but this really is an important point.
We've become totally inured to the idea of publishers and even marketing executives dictating plot points and protagonist profiles so as to maximize revenue from their target demographics.
Why does the idea of fans influencing a game's plot get a bigger backlash than marketing department wonks who tear apart a writer's vision in pursuit of yet another dollar?
I'd much rather see pubilshers give the fans what they want than see them give the fans what the marketers want the fans to have.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
It has to be experienced to be believed. >
I'v seen the end...no one was spared...not even die hard fans
Because the former's highlighting a design flaw that impacts playability, while the latter is complaining that 2001 goes a bit trippy at the end?
...which makes me wonder if that's the intention and now it's all going according to plan (the closure side of things, at least)
Edit:
I'd worry that this would set a precedent of game designers being afraid to challenge their players *intellectually*, and so we'd end up with anodyne endings as a result; unchallenging, unambiguous, gung-ho ones. I'd rather that didn't happen... but we're a long way from that.
That's kind of my fear in this whole thing, really. I mean I realize that most games already try to be unchallenging, unambiguous and all that, so that wouldn't affect them. I just wonder how this might affect a few stories in games, or how this might affect the publishers and the way they view the story in a game and how they push their developer.
I think one of the specific worries I might have is with something like Bioshock Infinite. I could really see them trying for an ambitious ending or something like that, but I wonder if the publisher might see this situation and sit down with Ken and have a few words and some strong opinions on where he should really take it.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
You're assuming those designers aren't going to be making compromises already based on publisher/marketing requests/demands/deadlines.
Also, I'd argue that if Bioware actually did what you're stating with the ending for ME3, there would actually be a lot less backlash. People have said they wouldn't mind a "bad" ending (i.e. bad as in depressing, not poorly done) or something that requires a bit of thinking - they just don't want a poorly done one.
Shorty11857
Member
Well the problem is more that the ending is objectively bad, the first half of the ending is bad but at least that's kind of in a subjective way, but the second half is impossible to defend
you know I beat Mass Effect 3, and the ending really was not even close to as awful as people have been making it out to be. I mean it's bad, but I've certainly experienced at least fifty equally bad endings in other games this generation, and bad endings have become something of a tradition it seems so I'm rather used to it.
And it's odd too, considering it doesn't seem on the surface like it should be so hard to make a satisfying ending.
At least they sent the money to charity, but what a dumb thing to want the raise awareness over. :/
And it's odd too, considering it doesn't seem on the surface like it should be so hard to make a satisfying ending.
At least they sent the money to charity, but what a dumb thing to want the raise awareness over. :/
In my experience, publishers very rarely have wanted story changes, it's generally been in terms of back-of-box gameplay bulletpoints. I'd really rather that there wasn't a reason for that to change.
Our workload increased on a title I worked on simply because the Hot Coffee negative press made our publisher jumpy. We had to waste dev time trying to appease a simple - but by no means *important* - request that shouldn't have been necessary.
Raising money to try and make BioWare change the ending of a game = LOL. Did the series (so called) conclusion leave me satisfied? No, I felt it was rather disappointing. But it is what it is and it's done. I am not going to pay for another ending after they left me disappointed already, and I only rented it. I sure as hell am not going to donate money towards such a cause either, lol.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Depends on the publisher really - I've been on a few projects where the publisher was very interested in all aspects of development, including story.
EmCeeGramr
Member
It's a lot of little things. You start thinking about what actually happened, and it gets dumber and dumber and dumber and more horrific in ways you're pretty sure the writers never intended, and then you start to come up with crazy theories about how it's brilliant avant-garde storytelling and they'll reveal it was all a dream (because that's original and great), and then a behind-the-scenes iPad app from Geoff Keighley reveals that it was purposefully vague Matrix bullshit purely to make people speculate instead of to make an artistic message, and then you realize, "Well I have these 100 hours worth of games here that I've been playing one continuous story with to see how my choices affect things. Fuck."
I think raising money for charity or whatever is a bit crazy and changing it is futile, but at this point that's part of why I'm following this so much. I really want to see what happens.
Haven't seen that. Its so spot on.
This whole situation is so weird. Where was the fury around the laughable ending to MGS4? A videogame company wrote a shitty ending to their story, big deal. Did people expect something good after ME2? BioWare had proved to be unable to handle their own choice-related ambitions in their previous game, it's no surprise that they copped out in the end. It's exactly the sort of ending you would expect from modern BioWare and from modern videogames in general.
You know, I have been there since day one with ME as well. 5 years later and we get an ending with no real closure, your actions were rendered void and it ultimately cut off with what seems to be DLC-bait.
Did it suck? Indeed it did, but oh well. Time rolls on and there is no shortage of great games to look forward to. I am not about to start throwing money at them in effort to try and force them to give me something else, lol. As I don't like paying those who let me down, but that is just me.
You have to gauge it alongside the rest of the series. Yes, alone, it is another very generic boring ending. Once you realize what Mass Effect is about ,and read the pre-release quotes, it becomes terrible on an entirely different level. The more you think about it, the worse it becomes.
I kind of want to piggy back on this with, I've played so many games with mediocre or just plain bad endings that ME3 honestly came out looking good. Not great, but solid despite the failings I have with it.
I also went into a media blackout for it in June 2011 and went into the game with 0 expectations outside of "video-games end shitty, usually". So I didn't see the PR quotes that everyone is angry over until after I beat it, and my response to that wasn't even anger but "lol, PR".
I generally seem to side more with Bioware than the typical person around here, it seems, but this is really, really where Bioware has failed astoundingly. Their PR and communication to fans seems to be on a whole other level than a lot of developers. It's really kind of astounding how much they seem to have fucked that up.
I was pretty hyped up over the game, but yeah I didn't follow the PR quotes and all that either. Typical quotes from developers tend to be pretty pie in the sky anyway. I mean look at how seriously anyone takes Peter Molyneux now.
JustAnotherOtaku
Member
Donating to charity? Brilliant! The rest? Ugh.
Which is why it boggles the mind to think that some of those who feel they have been done so wrongly are breaking out the wallets and are ready to dole out more dollars to the very same offenders they are pissed at. Don't know about anyone else, but when I buy a product in general that falls short of what I wanted, I don't go on campaigns trying to raise money for the makers to change it, and I certainly am not ready and willing to pay them more for what I feel should have been included with what I already paid for. Hell, I only rented it and still would never resort to such measures.
Psy-Phi
Member
The last time a company listened to it's fans we got ugly ass Cole back instead of the more debonair Cole.
Why these "fans" would trust Bioware to re-write the ending I can't understand. It's the same people they think fucked it up in the first place. I haven't bought ME3 yet but it's got more to do with the ridiculous fiasco of pre-order and day 1 DLC, addition of multiplayer, and odd design decisions for an RPG in general that have kept me from doing it. Whatever this ending is....can not be so bad as to make people put faith in those that they feel failed them.
Would you ask for a retcon of a TV series that ended poorly? It is what it is, and the director/writers hopefully had this vision in place for a while, so there's really no complaints to be had. Why do developers even need writers if they're just going to tell them their idea sucks. What's the point if you just want to enjoy something that's masturbatory and patronizing?
Why these "fans" would trust Bioware to re-write the ending I can't understand. It's the same people they think fucked it up in the first place. I haven't bought ME3 yet but it's got more to do with the ridiculous fiasco of pre-order and day 1 DLC, addition of multiplayer, and odd design decisions for an RPG in general that have kept me from doing it. Whatever this ending is....can not be so bad as to make people put faith in those that they feel failed them.
Would you ask for a retcon of a TV series that ended poorly? It is what it is, and the director/writers hopefully had this vision in place for a while, so there's really no complaints to be had. Why do developers even need writers if they're just going to tell them their idea sucks. What's the point if you just want to enjoy something that's masturbatory and patronizing?
Liquid Helium
Member
This whole thing is crazy, the ending wasn't even that bad. Do people really not have anything better to be angry about and dedicate their time to than the ending to a video game?
CP should've just rejected those accusations and exerted no pressure on the drive.
I don't care about ME3 but this feels all sorts of dirty IMO
I think I've always had a bad view of PA when it came to their integrity regarding sponsors/advertisers and their editorial slants, and this somewhat affirms it.
I don't care about ME3 but this feels all sorts of dirty IMO
I think I've always had a bad view of PA when it came to their integrity regarding sponsors/advertisers and their editorial slants, and this somewhat affirms it.