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[Cheech]

I don't recall anyone calling your taste shit in the spoiler thread. Most of us are pretty curious though when someone says the ending was good because we've already broken it down and know just how bad the writing is and how lazy they handled it.

It's implied by those who are taking action to try to get Bioware to change the ending.

Wait so wanting to like a product you bought makes you an entitled baby? That is stupid.

The line is crossed when you publicly scream at Bioware to change the ending "or else". I've experienced tons of endings I didn't like in every artistic medium, but I've never seen anything like this before. As someone said earlier, it's like if people started a crusade to trash Stephen King for the way he ends his books, and DEMAND that he change the endings to have wider appeal. It tells me things about gamer psyches I don't necessarily like, and frankly the fact this ME3 debacle is so widespread is embarrassing to me since this is my primary hobby.

 

[TouchMyBox]

I watched the ending on youtube. I really don't see what the big idea is.

Though I was always expecting to be disappointed by ME3, so that may affect my outlook a bit.

 

[hamchan]

Both the notion that 3% is a decent chunk to make such a drastic change and that the "hardcore" fans are the ones who will give them money are wrong. Just think for a moment: if the hardcore die hard internet fans are really that representative, why did Bioware changed the focus of the games to a more action-oriented experience besides of all internet discontentment about it?


Sorry, I'll redo my calculations and send feedback in a minute.

Once again, 3% is a decent size if it was a random sample. Obviously once you know the sample comes from Internet forums then it's not random anymore, is it?

Anyways why did Bioware make ME2 more action oriented? Because the RPG elements in the first Mass Effect weren't really that good and were the source of a lot of problems with the game. The best RPG element, which is the convo system, they kept. Focusing on improving the 3rd person shooting was the right move and made the game much better. They ended up winning many GOTY awards and really, the Internet backlash against it wasn't very loud at all.

Dragon Age 2 on the other hand was the wrong direction to dumb it down. Huge vocal backlash on that one and Bioware had to cancel their expansion pack to the game because everyone hates it.

 

[AniHawk]

It means what I think it means. People think because they paid $60 that they are owed an ending they like? That is the very meaning of "entitled".

I liked ME3's ending. I'm not alone. What the entitled are saying is my taste is shit, theirs is great, and to prove it they're going to guilt Bioware into changing the ending. And even better, they're going to give to charity to try to "prove" that they're not acting entitled.

The whole thing is one of the most bizarre things I can remember in my 30 years of playing games. The Giant Bomb guys actually nailed it this week; it's great that we've gotten to a point where people are this wrapped up in the story of a game. It shows just how far we've come over the years to legitimizing gaming as an art form. However, this kind of thing is extremely counter productive to this cause, because the entitled are telling the rest of the world that gaming is NOT art and subject to revision at the whim of the consumer.

i really liked mass effect 3's ending for a while.

Spoiler

saying goodbye to your squad was great. everyone was handled perfectly. the battle of london was tense and desperate. the final run to the conduit was fucking fantastic. stumbling to the conduit, and making your way to the control center... everything up to the part where anderson dies (discarding the dumb illusive man stuff), was great too.

but, again, the big point of this series was that your decisions from the first two games were supposed to matter, and they don't. i actually don't care about the ending itself- the three choices- and how ultimately they are the same thing, but the ending fails because the writer was trying to be artsy and the designers failed to develop a framework for how your decisions would come into play. part of this can be blamed on electronic arts, or whoever was in charge of moving people around or making sure key people did not leave the team from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3.

anyway, the damage is done, and the only way to really fix it would be to go back to mass effect 2 and start from scratch. or maybe just call that one mass effect: the continuing adventures or mass effect: the deluxe dlc collection and have a mass effect 2 and 3 that make a little more sense regarding the plot of the first game and how it handles your decisions from that game.

 

[Derrick01]

I have never played Mass Effect 3, or 2, or 1. All I can process are two pieces of information. The ending to this game sucked. And the people take this game way too seriously.

I...see. So you have no real idea or perspective on why people are angry then.

 

[jediyoshi]

The line is crossed when you publicly scream at Bioware to change the ending "or else".

"Or else!... money will go into this charity and we'll make more threads on the internet!" What else are you even picking up? Are you reading the deviantart journals of BSN members?

 

[Takamura-San]

It's implied by those who are taking action to try to get Bioware to change the ending.



The line is crossed when you publicly scream at Bioware to change the ending "or else". I've experienced tons of endings I didn't like in every artistic medium, but I've never seen anything like this before. As someone said earlier, it's like if people started a crusade to trash Stephen King for the way he ends his books, and DEMAND that he change the endings to have wider appeal. It tells me things about gamer psyches I don't necessarily like, and frankly the fact this ME3 debacle is so widespread is embarrassing to me since this is my primary hobby.

Read the criticisms of the ending before claiming the reasons why we don't like it. Mass appeal is not one of those. The ending doesn't make sense, at all.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I still think it's funny that people are throwing the entitled insult around.

I've never used 'entitled' as an insult and do apologize if you or anyone else took it that way.

EDIT: I've done the ending twice now, and I always think of the ending to HBO's 'Big Love'.

Spoiler

How Bill Paxton dies and becomes a ghost, thereby negating any sense of urgency or reality that the show ever had, because they needed something big to end the show on.

"Or else!... money will go into this charity

Would they be giving to Child's Play if it didn't benefit them?

Child's Play has become a Thing to hide behind. So I don't think you can use the Charity card.

Sorry, I just have an issue with people slapping Child's Play on everything in order to seem legit.

 

[hitmon]

I haven't played ME3 yet, but I must say its impressive. I don't really understand the hate for those who want an alternate ending. Wasn't the series about choice and multiple endings? From what I understand, Bioware doesn't plan to change the ending.

 

[Shepard]

Did you read the post thoroughly enough to see that I already did address the possibility of overlap? That doesn't change anything all when considering that it would be improbable and illogical to assume that the overlap is great enough to the point where the entire metric boils down to the 1-3% you are hypothesizing. Moreover, again, it is quite disingenuous to assume that the issue ceases to exist outside of the vocal 'net population; not only were the problems with the ending mostly factual, but it also completely ignores any sweeping effect the word-of-mouth might have had, let alone accounts from "lay" players that I'm betting quite a few in this topic can testify to. If we are going the route of analyzing all of this in the guise of a statistical analysis, there is quite enough variables to shit things to the notion where it might not be the vocal internet public that might have a problem with things here.

That's all purely speculation, though. My posts is based around speculation as well, but at least I have lots of previous occurrences to base them on. And please, don't base your opinion around my random number, it was random (I say a 10-15% extrapolation still wouldn't be anywhere near a "decent size" when we are takins such a drastic thing in consideration) .

 

[erpg]

Did you just imply that putting your product out into the world invalidates it as art?

Reading comprehension failure, or just taking my argument to an extreme as a straw man? I don't entertain either.

 

[Wizman23]

This entire thing is beyond pathetic. Makes me embarrassed to be a gamer. 20 plus hours of a great game....actually 60 plus counting all 3. ENTITLED

 

[Takamura-San]

This entire thing is beyond pathetic. Makes me embarrassed to be a gamer. 20 plus hours of a great game....actually 60 plus counting all 3. ENTITLED

And no logical conclusion to all of that.... who would be angry at that?

 

[littleworm]

You can tell me about thousands of "internet fans" "raging" about the ending and, without discounting the fact that the same user can have an account in all of the services you cited, it's still the "great" minority of those who bought the game.

Sure there is the possibility of overlap, but the same can be said for pro-enders too. And yes we can poll a minority of a group and extrapolate the opinion of the whole group, with very good accuracy.

 

[thetechkid]

That rule was created when thousands of people started whining about the ending of a FREAKING VIDEO GAME.

I have never played Mass Effect 3, or 2, or 1. All I can process are two pieces of information. The ending to this game sucked. And the people take this game way too seriously.

Why does your opinion matter then? If you're not invested in the product why does you saying the people are taking to too seriously even matter? How do you know they're taking it too seriously?

 

[MC Safety]

Falllout's ending was pathetic, even for Bethesda, and demanded revision.

I'm not sure BioWare's horrible conclusion is wrong on the same level. Especially since the ending is preceded by a perfectly acceptable end point.

 

[Shepard]

Sure there is the possibility of overlap, but the same can be said for pro-enders too. And yes we can poll a minority of a group and extrapolate the opinion of the whole group, with very good accuracy.

adressed above.

 

[Trakdown]

Title needs to be changed. The fans either donated to help change the ending of mass effect 3 or they donated to charity. Can't be both.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

People who say shit like "artistic vision" and all that nonsense ignore the very real fact that the artistic vision is compromised constantly by things like engine restraints, budget constraints, time constraints, focus testing, and tweaking things to better suit the executives overseeing the project.

So, guess what? There are a lot of people involved in spoiling the purity of the artistic vision of this game. It's not so crazy for people who played the game to voice their concerns as well.

 

[Derrick01]

This entire thing is beyond pathetic. Makes me embarrassed to be a gamer. 20 plus hours of a great game....actually 60 plus counting all 3. ENTITLED

Posts like these make me embarrassed to be a gamer. It's a shame most of the gaming media PR are echoing it.

 

[hatchx]

Spoiler

You spend all three games making huge galaxy changing decisions that end up meaning nothing.

The only difference between the forced ending choices is the color of an explosion.

Space ghost kid controls synthetics to kill organics so organics don't make synthetics to kill themselves.

hmmm. Sound about MGS levels of dumb. I'm really surprised they are changing it. They should just leave it. All of this bad publicity and controversy is better than no publicity/controversy amiright?

 

[hamchan]

So two choices, Bioware changes the ending or Bioware tells us to fuck off. Which is Paragon and which is Renegade?

 

[Speevy]

I...see. So you have no real idea or perspective on why people are angry then.

But that's just it.

I've never seen anything like this before. It's unprecedented. I have never seen a game received this way. Not Celda, Lair, Super Mario Sunshine, Devil May Cry 2, Resident Evil 5, Grand Theft Auto 4, nothing.

This is far and away the greatest controversy over a game's story in gaming history. You don't even have to think about it to realize that it is.

The better question is, why are we at this point in gaming history?

Sometimes you have to be the guy on the outside to see how insane something is.

 

[Shepard]

So two choices, Bioware changes the ending or Bioware tells us to fuck off. Which is Paragon and which is Renegade?

where's my green choice?

 

[MechaX]

That's all purely speculation, though. My posts is based around speculation as well, but at least I have lots of previous occurrences to base them on.

It is pretty much using easy circumstantial evidence to come to the conclusion that what we are seeing might also serve as an alternative, representative sample in lieu of the charity donators. Mostly simply due to how the size of the forums listed are quite disparate, let alone the size of the ME3 fans within each one. Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. What could be entirely speculation is the effect of the word of mouth. But it is not unreasonable to assume that the rest of the non-internet forum-going base could be swayed in the direction of finding a problem with the ending as opposed to either taking indifference or support of the ending, especially since, again, a lot of the problems in the ending do not even address the notion of subjectivity; they address facts of the consistency of the writing itself. As long as those things remain possible, then boiling everything down to 3-15% metric (especially if the population in question is going to the double digits, even the most ground-breaking psychological/academic studies have supported more connections with less numbers in population) might be pretty unreasonable at this stage.

 

[littleworm]

adressed above.

What are these "previous events" you are referring too, are you saying every poll ever taken is wrong? Statistics work, regardless of you like it or not.

 

[heliosRAzi]

So two choices, Bioware changes the ending or Bioware tells us to fuck off. Which is Paragon and which is Renegade?

"I've had enough of your entitled assertions"

 

[Speevy]

Why does your opinion matter then? If you're not invested in the product why does you saying the people are taking to too seriously even matter? How do you know they're taking it too seriously?

I'm not trying to say my opinion matters. It doesn't.

I've just never seen this before. It's baffling.

I love you all though.

 

[Dany]

So two choices, Bioware changes the ending or Bioware tells us to fuck off. Which is Paragon and which is Renegade?

Doesn't matter, we will get the same ending in both.

 

[Sub_Level]

I have no problem with people wanting the ending to be changed. This is a medium where such a thing isn't impractical like reprinting and republishing a book or working on a movie some more after it's release in theatres. Why not take advantage of it? It hasn't been done many times before, so I say take a stab at it. As long as Bioware doesn't start getting death threats this "protest" is perfectly moral and legal, and even then those kinds of high emotional responses come from a vast minority of the people wanting change.

People need to stop shitting on the fans, no pun intended.

 

[thetechkid]

The better question is, why are we at this point in gaming history?

Bioware promised something and didn't deliver, fans are mad.

 

[Cagey]

It means what I think it means. People think because they paid $60 that they are owed an ending they like? That is the very meaning of "entitled".

Wait so wanting to like a product you bought makes you an entitled baby? That is stupid.

See above.

You and others are using the word entitled as a pejorative, i.e. people with an unjustified sense of entitlement, that they are owed something for no valid reason. Pejorative evidenced by the cute phrase "entitled babies".

That's where you're incorrect.

Gamers purchased a game for $60. Many of them purchased two prior games, also at the price of $60. Some even bought extra content at $10 a pop. The total investment in the product can range from $60 to over $200. A group of gamers feel they didn't receive a product worthy of the monetary investment and want the situation remedied.

Consumers wanting product satisfaction are not displaying an unwarranted sense of entitlement for voicing their displeasure and lobbying the product maker to fix it.

Plus, from a literal semantics standpoint, someone who wants a remedy but does not feel they are entitled to one cannot, in fact, be entitled. I would bet many fall into this camp.

And what's worse is that instead of thinking critically for even a moment, people are now just haphazardly tossing the word "entitled" around to insult anyone lodging a complaint about this game. Way to be, gaming journalists. Way to be.

 

[hamchan]

But that's just it.

I've never seen anything like this before. It's unprecedented. I have never seen a game received this way. Not Celda, Lair, Super Mario Sunshine, Devil May Cry 3, Resident Evil 5, Grand Theft Auto 4, nothing.

This is far any the greatest controversy over a game's story in gaming history. You don't even have to think about it to realize that it is.

The better question is, why are we at this point in gaming history?

Sometimes you have to be the guy on the outside to see how insane something is.

It's probably because no other game series has invested gamers in the story so much before. This series has spread over 3 games and 5 years with the initial pitch being that all your choices matter. It's the first time something this ambitious has been tried in video game storytelling and really, it should have been the greastest series this generation.

 

[DTKT]

It's implied by those who are taking action to try to get Bioware to change the ending.



The line is crossed when you publicly scream at Bioware to change the ending "or else". I've experienced tons of endings I didn't like in every artistic medium, but I've never seen anything like this before. As someone said earlier, it's like if people started a crusade to trash Stephen King for the way he ends his books, and DEMAND that he change the endings to have wider appeal. It tells me things about gamer psyches I don't necessarily like, and frankly the fact this ME3 debacle is so widespread is embarrassing to me since this is my primary hobby.

There is no "or else".

It's probably because no other game series has invested gamers in the story so much before. This series has spread over 3 games and 5 years with the initially pitch being that all your choices matter. It's the time something this ambitious has been tried in video game storytelling and really, it should have been the greastest series this generation,

DING FUCKIN DING.

That's why it's not a slippery slope argument. That's because the only possible series where this could have happened is Mass Effect.

 

[Nekofrog]

That rule was created when thousands of people started whining about the ending of a FREAKING VIDEO GAME.

I have never played Mass Effect 3, or 2, or 1. All I can process are two pieces of information. The ending to this game sucked. And the people take this game way too seriously.

People take expensive hobbies seriously. NEWS AT 11.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Bioware promised something and didn't deliver, fans are mad.

Basically.

 

[Foxtastical]

Whoa. Crazy.

 

[Red Blaster]

But that's just it.

I've never seen anything like this before. It's unprecedented. I have never seen a game received this way. Not Celda, Lair, Super Mario Sunshine, Devil May Cry 2, Resident Evil 5, Grand Theft Auto 4, nothing.

This is far and away the greatest controversy over a game's story in gaming history. You don't even have to think about it to realize that it is.

The better question is, why are we at this point in gaming history?

Sometimes you have to be the guy on the outside to see how insane something is.

None of those games were founded on the premise of player agency/choice in a story.

 

[Cheech]

Read the criticisms of the ending before claiming the reasons why we don't like it. Mass appeal is not one of those. The ending doesn't make sense, at all.

I read giant chunks of the spoiler thread. I understand why people didn't like aspects of it. Does it merit throwing public tantrums and making gamers look like children? No.

I agree with Anihawk's spoilers; I thought the ending sequence as a whole was very strong. So, there were aspects of the final CG that could have been fleshed out some more. Does it detract from the game as a whole, let alone the ending sequence of the game? IMO, hell no!

Anyway, it's a fruitless debate. Bioware will be more than happy to sell people an expanded epilogue for $15 in a few months.

The irony in all this, and I mentioned this just this past weekend, is that people SHOULD be furious over the "From Ashes" DLC. It's a MANDATORY part of the game sold separately. Where is all the righteous indignation and refusal to buy the game based off that? It's because publishers see us as hypocrites who love to bitch but always buy, and are all too happy to nickel and dime us.

 

[MechaX]

There is no "or else".

The "or else" is "we will begrudgingly buy your games unless you do another DA2 caliber-fuck up. Maybe."

 

[lightus]

First off, $80,000 to a charity is great no matter the context. I don't really agree with the reasoning behind the donations, but I do agree with the participants methods of garnering attention. Instead of destroying and taking, they are creating and giving. That is admirable.

Second, I think this whole situation would work out a lot better if people learned to respect one another a bit more. It is perfectly okay to hold and opinion. That is your right as a human. It isn't okay to disrespect others who have different opinions.

After initially completing the game, I actually liked the ending. I felt although it was bleak at some points, it ultimately offered hope. I posted this on some forums and instantly had insults thrown at me. Apparently, only idiots could like that ending, and since I liked it I was and idiot.

A while later, once my emotions ran down, the plot holes and broken lore I initially scanned over became more apparent. Since then, I have changed my opinion and I don't care for the ending as much. That does not give me the right to call people who disagree with me idiots. If I wanted to change their opinion I could have a civil conversation about the ending and inform them of why I don't like the game. I cannot do any more than that.

On top of this, I don't think we should personally disrespect the people who made the game. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they did not purposefully anger a very large portion of their fans. There are other ways to bring their attention to your opinion than making personal attacks over a disagreement.

Then again, this is the internet. I may just be expecting too much.

 

[Shepard]

What are these "previous events" you are referring too, are you saying every poll ever taken is wrong? Statistics work, regardless of you like it or not.

Statistics work, but tell me, what are those statistics you're basing your opinions on? That's exactly my point, statistics are nothing without a representative group, and you can't sort that group from the threads we have, that are almost a "gather point" for those who didn't like the game, as those who like are not well received.

 

[Derrick01]

But that's just it.

I've never seen anything like this before. It's unprecedented. I have never seen a game received this way. Not Celda, Lair, Super Mario Sunshine, Devil May Cry 2, Resident Evil 5, Grand Theft Auto 4, nothing.

This is far any the greatest controversy over a game's story in gaming history. You don't even have to think about it to realize that it is.

The better question is, why are we at this point in gaming history?

Sometimes you have to be the guy on the outside to see how insane something is.

I don't disagree that it's the biggest controversy over a game's story. But I would say that's because most either aren't worth mentioning, or they didn't fuck up this badly.

Fallout 3 has already been mentioned as one of the first to change its ending due to being terrible. Some people were mad but most didn't care because it wasn't a story driven game, it's a Bethesda game after all. That's why controversy didn't erupt out of that game, not many cared.

You really had to have been here to feel the kick in the balls. 5 years of world and character building, most of it relying on player choice. One of the most immersive game universes ever, and the way they end it is such a massive bitch slap to its fans. That's why this is happening now.

 

[rozay]

The irony in all this, and I mentioned this just this past weekend, is that people SHOULD be furious over the "From Ashes" DLC. It's a MANDATORY part of the game sold separately. Where is all the righteous indignation and refusal to buy the game based off that? It's because publishers see us as hypocrites who love to bitch but always buy, and are all too happy to nickel and dime us.

Did you miss the gigantic thread about it last month?

 

[Sub_Level]

First off, $80,000 to a charity is great no matter the context. I don't really agree with the reasoning behind the donations, but I do agree with the participants methods of garnering attention. Instead of destroying and taking, they are creating and giving. That is admirable.

Second, I think this whole situation would work out a lot better if people learned to respect one another a bit more. It is perfectly okay to hold and opinion. That is your right as a human. It isn't okay to disrespect others who have different opinions.

After initially completing the game, I actually liked the ending. I felt although it was bleak at some points, it ultimately offered hope. I posted this on some forums and instantly had insults thrown at me. Apparently, only idiots could like that ending, and since I liked it I was and idiot.

A while later, once my emotions ran down, the plot holes and broken lore I initially scanned over became more apparent. Since then, I have changed my opinion and I don't care for the ending as much. That does not give me the right to call people who disagree with me idiots. If I wanted to change their opinion I could have a civil conversation about the ending and inform them of why I don't like the game. I cannot do any more than that.

On top of this, I don't think we should personally disrespect the people who made the game. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they did not purposefully anger a very large portion of their fans. Their are other ways to bring their attention to your opinion than making personal attacks over a disagreement.

Then again, this is the internet. I may just be expecting too much.

Good post.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

The irony in all this, and I mentioned this just this past weekend, is that people SHOULD be furious over the "From Ashes" DLC. It's a MANDATORY part of the game sold separately. Where is all the righteous indignation and refusal to buy the game based off that? It's because publishers see us as hypocrites who love to bitch but always buy, and are all too happy to nickel and dime us.

There was a HUGE furor over From Ashes in the weeks leading up to release, especially since people had found indications months earlier that it had been planned alongside the main game for some time. Journalists called people who were upset, "entitled babies," and said that BioWare had a right to make them stacks, because games are services, yo.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I read giant chunks of the spoiler thread. I understand why people didn't like aspects of it. Does it merit throwing public tantrums and making gamers look like children? No.

I agree with Anihawk's spoilers; I thought the ending sequence as a whole was very strong. So, there were aspects of the final CG that could have been fleshed out some more. Does it detract from the game as a whole, let alone the ending sequence of the game? IMO, hell no!

Anyway, it's a fruitless debate. Bioware will be more than happy to sell people an expanded epilogue for $15 in a few months.

The irony in all this, and I mentioned this just this past weekend, is that people SHOULD be furious over the "From Ashes" DLC. It's a MANDATORY part of the game sold separately. Where is all the righteous indignation and refusal to buy the game based off that? It's because publishers see us as hypocrites who love to bitch but always buy, and are all too happy to nickel and dime us.

From Ashes is not mandatory.

And I honestly can't see how people can see the endings as being strong.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

I watched the ending on youtube. I really don't see what the big idea is.

Though I was always expecting to be disappointed by ME3, so that may affect my outlook a bit.

The ending is one of the all time great cockteases in any form of fiction I've ever played, watched or read.

The issue isn't that the ending sucks. If Mass Effect 3 had a shitty story overall, nobody would be as angry about the whole ending thing. We'd just see another rehash of the Dragon Age 2 debacle where nerds rage for a couple of months and then the game is relegated to the dustbin of videogame history. The thing is that the build up was so fucking good that everyone who played the game was on the edge of their seat for the ending. It's such a bad ending that I literally cannot think of any other example in any form of fiction where I was letdown as much as I was with ME3.

 

[DTKT]

The "or else" is "we will begrudgingly buy your games unless you do another DA2 caliber-fuck up. Maybe."

No, there isn't one.

The fans are calling out Bioware on a shitty ending. There is no malicious intent, no evil, no spite. Just fans who bought their games for 5 years and expected a quality ending.

We didn't get that. So, that's what we are saying. Make something good.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

And what's worse is that instead of thinking critically for even a moment, people are now just haphazardly tossing the word "entitled" around to insult anyone lodging a complaint about this game. Way to be, gaming journalists. Way to be.

Wait, do people think I work for IGN?

... kinda neat, I guess.

I'll pretend Destructoid.