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Mass Effect trilogy remaster ‘scheduled for October release but could slip’, journalist claims
- Thread starter Grand Theft Scratchy
- Start date
- Rumor
Nico_D
Member
Mass Effect 3's ending isn't objectively bad. Some or many people don't like it, it still doesn't make it bad for everyone.
Also I really don't get how people keep repeating that ME3 stripped away all the choices and everything you did before didn't matter. The third game can be pretty different depending on the choices you made. You meet different people, fight different enemies and have different outcomes to story arcs which started in the first game: genophage and geth for one.
Sure, it isn't perfect. Some consequences are skin changes but I'm replaying ME3 right now and I'm having a lot of fun with it.
When it comes to ending, I think it is fine. At least for those who believe in the indoctrination theory. Just based on the codex entry about introduction, Shepard has been having two of three symptoms in the game. But that's just me.
Anyway, like it or not, I don't get how people can be bothered by a game ten years later.
Also I really don't get how people keep repeating that ME3 stripped away all the choices and everything you did before didn't matter. The third game can be pretty different depending on the choices you made. You meet different people, fight different enemies and have different outcomes to story arcs which started in the first game: genophage and geth for one.
Sure, it isn't perfect. Some consequences are skin changes but I'm replaying ME3 right now and I'm having a lot of fun with it.
When it comes to ending, I think it is fine. At least for those who believe in the indoctrination theory. Just based on the codex entry about introduction, Shepard has been having two of three symptoms in the game. But that's just me.
Anyway, like it or not, I don't get how people can be bothered by a game ten years later.
Kadayi
Banned
The whole indoctrination theory is just clutching at straws fanfic to try and handwave away the abomination of the 3rd games ending. It should be renamed The Desperate Apologists Theory (Occams razor is laughing long and hard at it). It's well known that Hudson and Walters basically threw Karpyshyn's original idea about the Reaper Regular Extinction event being related to Dark Energy (which is brought up as a subject I ME2 quite a lot) away once he went to work on SW for them and pulled the whole 3 choices thing out of their ass at the last minute and thought it would somehow magically come out smelling of roses instead of putrid shit. It is just a tapestry of snippets here and there sewn together by people with too much sunk-cost bias to believe that what they got served was a shitburger with fries and Mountain Dew to wash away the taste.
It just doesn't hold up to a lick of scrutiny.
Now with all of that said I'm not entirely opposed to getting the remaster at some point because I'd be interested at the very least to see how they've brought the games in line with each other from a design perspective, given that there are significant differences between all three mechanistically (for the record I think 3 got the balance right when it came to weapons, upgrades and skills) but there's no saving the lamentable nature of that ending, and in truth, there's a few other aspects of 3 that are less than stellar in terms of how they were handled.
Ultimately it is what it is at the end of the day and if you take comfort in extended fan-fic that's your prerogative, but never forget ; -
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Nico_D
Member
Prove it. Prove that it doesn't.
That's what people opposed to the indoctrination theory say. And how the extended ending shut down the whole theory - without argumenting at all how indoctrination theory is false. It is just the same "a theory by desperate people" mantra.
People have right to believe in whatever they like but mocking and just dismissing theories and thoughts because you don't believe in them is silly.
RAIDEN1
Member
End of the day the Andromeda ending wasn't all that either...and that was left hanging until the book came out....(then again Andromeda is the lowest point in the franchise so no surprises there either..)
Kadayi
Banned
Let me see how should I spend my Sunday
1. Arguing with a crackpot about a wild theory that purports that the final part of a game from yesteryear was, in fact, one big hallucination or;
2. Do anything but that because there's no arguing with crazy.
The answer is 2. However, feel free to riddle me this Internet Batman
How is it that in the midst of a battle where the Reapers are fully engaged in wiping out all intelligent life in the galaxy would they suddenly care about indoctrinating Sheppard? To what end? Are they going to keep him as a pet or something? Shepard may be a hero from our perspective, but from the reapers one, he/she is just an annoying weed when they're cutting the grass back as they do every 60, 000 years. Where's the motivation at their end? They're not infiltrating or prepping at this moment, they're full-on cleaning the galaxy. What makes Sheppard special in that regard?
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Indoctrination is the only thing that makes the "the reapers win no matter what haha fuck you and oh yeah two of the choices make no sense kthanksbai" ending make even a shred of sense. My brother watched me play the third game, and as the credits rolled he said Shepard must be indoctrinated, because that's the only reason he'd stop fighting and go along with the reapers.The whole indoctrination theory is just clutching at straws fanfic to try and handwave away the abomination of the 3rd games ending. It should be renamed The Desperate Apologists Theory (Occams razor is laughing long and hard at it). It's well known that Hudson and Walters basically threw Karpyshyn's original idea about the Reaper Regular Extinction event being related to Dark Energy (which is brought up as a subject I ME2 quite a lot) away once he went to work on SW for them and pulled the whole 3 choices thing out of their ass at the last minute and thought it would somehow magically come out smelling of roses instead of putrid shit. It is just a tapestry of snippets here and there sewn together by people with too much sunk-cost bias to believe that what they got served was a shitburger with fries and Mountain Dew to wash away the taste.
It just doesn't hold up to a lick of scrutiny.
Now with all of that said I'm not entirely opposed to getting the remaster at some point because I'd be interested at the very least to see how they've brought the games in line with each other from a design perspective, given that there are significant differences between all three mechanistically (for the record I think 3 got the balance right when it came to weapons, upgrades and skills) but there's no saving the lamentable nature of that ending, and in truth, there's a few other aspects of 3 that are less than stellar in terms of how they were handled.
Ultimately it is what it is at the end of the day and if you take comfort in extended fan-fic that's your prerogative, but never forget ; -
Kadayi
Banned
Feel free to keep believing what you do if it makes you sleep better at night. I'll stick with : -
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
I don't believe it's what the devs intended, it's the only plotline from any of the games that has any kind of connection with the bullshit at the end. It was a happy accident, for lack of a better term.
Feel free to keep believing what you do if it makes you sleep better at night. I'll stick with : -
ruvikx
Banned
Mass Effect needs a remake, like Mafia is getting. Not a remaster. The gunplay & rpg elements also need to be streamlined between all 3 games. To pull that off, it would require a huge amount of skill which I do not believe Bioware have anymore (& also political power to resist attempts to make the game's content pander to 2020 politics). So instead we might get some shitty remasters with all the dlc included (at least I hope for EA's sake they're going to include all that downloadable content in the package because if not... forget the ending, forget any of the game's problems, it's that dlc greed which was the main f-up in the original trilogy).
She's a "person of color" as well with an Arabic name + she's a real bitch in all 3 games. Definitely problematic. Garrus is also a cop on the citadel. So he's de-facto a bad guy now as per current-year sjw diktats. And Spectres are like super cops themselves, operating above the law.
Meltdowns incoming.
She's a "person of color" as well with an Arabic name + she's a real bitch in all 3 games. Definitely problematic. Garrus is also a cop on the citadel. So he's de-facto a bad guy now as per current-year sjw diktats. And Spectres are like super cops themselves, operating above the law.
Meltdowns incoming.
thelastword
Banned
This series need a remake, not a remaster. Redo them all in UE5.
Nico_D
Member
Considering how your attitude reveals your inflexibility or unwillingness to listen to anything else than what you believe in, I think I'm wasting my time. But anyway...
The reapers are millions of years old machines, artificial intelligence with infinite calculation ability. They have indoctrinated a lot of people in the fiest two games and you think it requires any effort?
They indoctrinate anyone who stands in their way - Saren, TIM, that woman from Arrival - and anyone who has any power to sway people to their side.
No brainer, I say.
But you don't really seem to want to argument against the theory. You just like to call other people crazy over a game and a theory because it is something you don't believe in.
But if you really want to talk about the theory, let me know.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
oh my god cmon
digoutyoursoul
Member
Trivial I know but I hope the box art is something like this
Kadayi
Banned
Please, I was done with IT years ago. You're free to believe whatever you want, but by your very statements you highlight how utterly insignificant Shepard is to the Reapers, so this idea that when the gloves are finally off and all pretence is out the window they'd suddenly lead Shepard down some elaborate fantasy in the midst of a titanic battle just doesn't make a whole heap of sense. Shepard isn't a credible threat like a Superman or Dr Manhattan, they're just another easily squished human being. The reapers only required indoctrinated to help them set their plan in motion, once it was sprung they're kind of redundant.
Beer Baelly
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Still got Andromeda laying around. Played maybe an hour or so.
BigMadAndy
Neo Member
I'd definitely play ME1 again if it had ME3's combat. I've replayed ME1 about 5 times though because I've got loads of nostalgia for it. I also thought ME3 was a damn good game up until the ending, I thought Sanctuary in ME3 was one of the most interesting areas in the series in terms of how shocking it was and how real it made the war feel. It had a lot of potential with gathering war assets too but the game needed way more development time to be done right in this regard
I think the indoctrination theory does make a lot of sense in a lot of ways, Shepard was involved in tons of scenarios where other people became passively indoctrinated, he's also clearly going through some effects of it later into ME3. I believe I remember some bioware people saying the theory is wrong though so I personally don't put much credence in it, even though I think it would solve a lot of the games problems. If the remaster makes it canon then I'd be all for that, but they would have to devise a new ending and I can't see them putting in that much effort. If they don't change anything about the ending then I'll just play ME1 again and be done with it
I think the indoctrination theory does make a lot of sense in a lot of ways, Shepard was involved in tons of scenarios where other people became passively indoctrinated, he's also clearly going through some effects of it later into ME3. I believe I remember some bioware people saying the theory is wrong though so I personally don't put much credence in it, even though I think it would solve a lot of the games problems. If the remaster makes it canon then I'd be all for that, but they would have to devise a new ending and I can't see them putting in that much effort. If they don't change anything about the ending then I'll just play ME1 again and be done with it
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
As someone that played the series as it was coming out, even that ending of ME3...yeah I wasnt blown away by it but I wasnt pissed off either. Too me it was one of those : we leave it to your interpretation endings. And the reason it didn't bother me was because I had 3 full games story worth behind my belt with so much lore and awesome memories, a fucking ending sequence of 2 minutes with a different color pallet wont just erase that and make me hate the whole series.
Nico_D
Member
I have tried to find a source where anyone from Bioware denies indoctrination. Haven't succeeded.
It is interesting considering how so many are absolutely against it while there is quite a lot of in-game evidence for it from Rachni Queen's mention of oily shadows to codex entry about the effects. And also the starchild... if it was a real child Shepard saw, why does the AI look like him then? If it was a vision, well then...
Denialists say: bad writing!
But probably not smart for me to keep beating this drum.
It is interesting considering how so many are absolutely against it while there is quite a lot of in-game evidence for it from Rachni Queen's mention of oily shadows to codex entry about the effects. And also the starchild... if it was a real child Shepard saw, why does the AI look like him then? If it was a vision, well then...
Denialists say: bad writing!
But probably not smart for me to keep beating this drum.
Ascend
Member
Here;
Universal truth about the endings is that the reapers were defeated, TIM is out of the way, and the ones that survived can live on within the universe. I.e. in all the endings, the reapers were defeated and TIM died. So, destroy being the only option because of indoctrination is out the window.
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EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
BioWare games just kinda linger these days
Nico_D
Member
Thanks, hadn't seen that before! A good watch. I may not understand something now but how does that exclude indoctrination theory?
Does it mean the ending where Shepard chooses "destroy" but dies?
Personally - and the indoctrination theory - I've always that the reapers were defeated in any case. The whole choice in the Crucible was about Shepard - whether he is fully indoctrinated or not. It doesn't matter whether you pick control or synergy, either of those is a sign of you being indoctrinated and nothing happens to the reapers, they are not controlled and there is no synergy, it is just a trap. And to give the player three options to play with like the three parts of the dialogue wheel. If Shepard is indoctrinated or dead, the alliance wins the reapers without him through the Crucible which is ready to fire. If Shepard chooses destroy and survives, he is part of the victory - but like it has always been say in the game, wars are won together.
Personally - and the indoctrination theory - I've always that the reapers were defeated in any case. The whole choice in the Crucible was about Shepard - whether he is fully indoctrinated or not. It doesn't matter whether you pick control or synergy, either of those is a sign of you being indoctrinated and nothing happens to the reapers, they are not controlled and there is no synergy, it is just a trap. And to give the player three options to play with like the three parts of the dialogue wheel. If Shepard is indoctrinated or dead, the alliance wins the reapers without him through the Crucible which is ready to fire. If Shepard chooses destroy and survives, he is part of the victory - but like it has always been say in the game, wars are won together.
In any case, I think it says something about a game - or any piece of art - if it keeps people talking even 10 years after it was released. I think that is amazing and an achievement regardless of what anyone thinks of the ending. Hate is pointless, I'm just glad people experienced it so differently.
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spectyre
Member
Or UE6 on XSX.
Edit: For contexthttps://www.neogaf.com/threads/next...-analysis-leaks-thread.1480978/post-259896243
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Ascend
Member
Considering this thread is about a remaster, and some people might jump into these games for the first time, I'm going to put my reply in spoiler tags.
Considering Hackett's last message was that the Crucible is not firing and Shepard must do something, it kind of flies in the face of indoctrination theory, because if Shepard is indoctrinated, the Crucible would not fire at all since Shepard's action would not take place. And why would the Reapers bother indoctrinating Shepard at the last second if the Crucible is going to fire anyway?
To me, the attachment to destroy is because people can't live with the fact that the Reapers ended up being a costly AI mistake rather than pure natural evil.
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Nico_D
Member
Because it doesn't happen. It is all in Shepard's head, visions. The whole sequence before the lift was always weird to me anyway, they are all acting like marionettes, twitching and just being dream like.
Shepard still thinks he is really there and it is up to him but also outside of fiction the game needs the player to think that is actually happening to build up pressure for the decision. Without the illusion of reality practically everybody would choose destroy because it would be so clearly mind games. But then the game wouldn't try or manage to fool the players.
I don't think the reapers are actively indoctrinating anyone. It just happens due to exposure like it has been said in the game. They are not targeting anyone, I think, but when someone like Saren is turned, they take an advantage of it. Saren was important because they needed someone to open the Citadel for them. They don't really need Shepard for anything.
I thought the Geth arc was wonderful. So I'm really not opposed to the AI running wild story arc. That's practically mirrors what happened to Quarians and Geth. The same as what happened to the Reapers and Leviathans.[/SPOILERS]
Shepard still thinks he is really there and it is up to him but also outside of fiction the game needs the player to think that is actually happening to build up pressure for the decision. Without the illusion of reality practically everybody would choose destroy because it would be so clearly mind games. But then the game wouldn't try or manage to fool the players.
I don't think the reapers are actively indoctrinating anyone. It just happens due to exposure like it has been said in the game. They are not targeting anyone, I think, but when someone like Saren is turned, they take an advantage of it. Saren was important because they needed someone to open the Citadel for them. They don't really need Shepard for anything.
I thought the Geth arc was wonderful. So I'm really not opposed to the AI running wild story arc. That's practically mirrors what happened to Quarians and Geth. The same as what happened to the Reapers and Leviathans.[/SPOILERS]
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T-Cake
Member
I've just finished Mass Effect 1 on PS3. I would love for it to be my first PS Platinum trophy but not sure I can stomach two more playthroughs back-to-back. I'd rather press on with Mass Effect 2 this week.
Although I'm wondering why the heck I keep going back to play older games instead of new ones like Control, Doom Eternal, etc. Hurry up with PS5 already!
Although I'm wondering why the heck I keep going back to play older games instead of new ones like Control, Doom Eternal, etc. Hurry up with PS5 already!
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RAIDEN1
Member
That looks like what a Mass Effect movie poster would be like, advertised outside cinemas!!Trivial I know but I hope the box art is something like this
Ascend
Member
I wonder how you could stomach that atrocious performance. In any case, you'll likely want to replay it in the future anyway. Don't force it.
T-Cake
Member
I don't know how I did it. Some bits were absolutely awful. The PS3 must easily have the worst port - sound kept cutting out, graphics were glitching, loads of stutter and long load/save times. Hopefully ME2 will be better when I start it in 90 minutes.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
On reflection
Mass effect 2 should have been 3. Mass effect 3 should have been 2, without the stupid ending, but with an ending where Shep died.
Mass Effect 3 starts with Shep dead, reapers defeated, only to find out that the collectors were a bigger threat.
Mass Effect 3 ends with shep and co on a mountain, looking at a vista of thousands of collectors and their husk-rods, coming to earth. Shep looks back at the camera, nods defiantly and the whole team jump in the Mako and blast towards the enemy. As they head towards the horizon, the camera pans up into space and the 'mass effect' logo and signal comes on screen. Credits roll.
Mass effect 2 should have been 3. Mass effect 3 should have been 2, without the stupid ending, but with an ending where Shep died.
Mass Effect 3 starts with Shep dead, reapers defeated, only to find out that the collectors were a bigger threat.
Mass Effect 3 ends with shep and co on a mountain, looking at a vista of thousands of collectors and their husk-rods, coming to earth. Shep looks back at the camera, nods defiantly and the whole team jump in the Mako and blast towards the enemy. As they head towards the horizon, the camera pans up into space and the 'mass effect' logo and signal comes on screen. Credits roll.
TheContact
Member
Besides the below, which is sad, I still enjoyed 3; just not as much as 1 or 2.
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Spaceman292
Banned
The ending to 2 was banging what are you talking aboutWe’re talking about the ending to part 2, right?
Ascend
Member
Yet another confirmation that EA killed the franchise.Besides the below, which is sad, I still enjoyed 3; just not as much as 1 or 2.
The Shepard
Member
That is sad as fuck. Bioware should have stayed independent. Them taking over full control was never going to end well. Ea really fucked up bioware.
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ComputerBlue
Member
Delay it all you want just don’t release a trash product. I hope it comes with all DLC and ME3 multiplayer, and updated controls because holding x sprint is bogus.
TheGreatMusashi
Member
This is good news for me, I broke out the 360 and starated replaying the first one not too long ago. I would be happy for an update. I don't think the gameplay has aged as poorly as most do.
Ascend
Member
This is one of the reasons I want there to be a trilogy remaster. Eliminate the inferior gameplay element of ME1, and then people will realize how vastly superior ME1 is compared to ME2 and ME3.
Darkmakaimura
Member
Mass Effect 3's ending is platinum good compared to Star Ocean 3's ending.
Imagine absolutely ruining such a good series where there is no chance of redemption short of fully retconning it somehow.
At least ME can be salvaged with sequels if they're done right (Andromeda wasn't) but SO.... Wew.
Imagine absolutely ruining such a good series where there is no chance of redemption short of fully retconning it somehow.
At least ME can be salvaged with sequels if they're done right (Andromeda wasn't) but SO.... Wew.
TheContact
Member
I wish 2s combat was in 1. but otherwise I completely agree. 1 is goat