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Matt Hargett on lockhart (5nm, portable device) Will Not Hold Back Next-Gen Games
- Thread starter sonomamashine
- Start date
- Rumor
Xplainin
Banned
I don't believe it's 5nm at all. Why either Sony or MS would pay more for 5nm when they can get a perfectly acceptable APU done in 7nm cheaper I don't know.
Matt wasn't involved in the hardware side of it from what I understand, so he might not know the exact of it.
Spoken to him a couple of times, seems like an ok dude.
Matt wasn't involved in the hardware side of it from what I understand, so he might not know the exact of it.
Spoken to him a couple of times, seems like an ok dude.
D
Deleted member 740922
Unconfirmed Member
And that's "journalism" these days?
prinz_valium
Member
No Way
Coloress_Kafka
Member
If it’s portable then you have to factor in the screen, additional cooling, and miniaturization which drives the price higher.
So now this thing really doesn’t make much sense as a value option.
So now this thing really doesn’t make much sense as a value option.
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HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Portable doesn't mean handheld device.
MasterCornholio
Member
If that Xbox is portable it's not going to be able to handle XSX games at 1080P. It might be a small console but it definitely won't be a device like the Switch.
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Polygonal_Sprite
Member
That still uses far, far more electricity than you’d want to for a handheld. Switch uses about 10 watts when portable. This console would use closer to 100+ watts.
Stilton Disco
Member
Portable as in handheld?!
That would be extremely unexpected but also pretty much guarantee I'd buy it.
That would be extremely unexpected but also pretty much guarantee I'd buy it.
SteveLorde
Banned
wut you say?
ToadMan
Member
Hehe.
Portable in that context doesn't mean a handheld. He just means it's a small form factor - easy to take to other rooms or even to a buddies place.
Although if MS had gone down the handheld road like a switch, the Lockhart would be about double the cost of xsex by itself...
I'd love to see them do that, but it would be DOA even though I'd buy one.
Portable in that context doesn't mean a handheld. He just means it's a small form factor - easy to take to other rooms or even to a buddies place.
Although if MS had gone down the handheld road like a switch, the Lockhart would be about double the cost of xsex by itself...
I'd love to see them do that, but it would be DOA even though I'd buy one.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Man I would fucking love a portable Xbox.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
I expect a very small form factor box, maybe four or five times the size of an Apple TV. That's probably why they need 5nm. No disc drive, digital only. Very small, can easily be moved around or travelled with.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
If the Switch doesn't bring Sony back to handhelds, an MS device isn't going to, frankly. The market for portal Xbox is completely unproven and the Vita didn't set the world on fire either.
In the gaming space, it really does. I get it, the GameCube was "portable" because of the tiny form factor, and it even had a handle. But if you told most people there was a "portable Xbox" they should and would instantly assume it's a handheld. Check Matt's own comments in the thread, it's exactly what he's talking about.
Incidentally, I don't believe they're doing it for a second.
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Stilton Disco
Member
By that ridiculously broad definition all consoles ever have been portable devices, unless you're telling me the XSX will be so large and heavy that people won't be able to physically pick it up?
I mean the Gamecube had a dedicated carry handle, yet no one is retarded enough to describe that as 'portable'.
JackNightblade
Member
and why would they make a portable device when they are spending billions on xcloud?
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Matt in Reponse to "switch competitor?":
Doesn't bat an eye, he's talking about portable, handheld gaming.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
It has to be something like RISC V to work, this shit wont work in x86. Theres a reason Surface Go 2 is so weak, x86 draws too much power, especially something this powerful.
Either way too many assumptions for it to be possible.
Either way too many assumptions for it to be possible.
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ToadMan
Member
Miniaturisation and portability are desirable because of volume and form factor - not just weight.
That’s why you’ll happy carry your phone everywhere but leave your PC home.
That’s also why “slim” versions of consoles are a thing. Same as the mini rereleases of consoles.
Insane Metal
Member
Lol.
5nm = fake.
5nm = fake.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Portable and won’t hold next gen back?
JenniferLawrence.gif
JenniferLawrence.gif
Thirty7ven
Banned
The guy was joking certainly.
How can you make an handheld with that kind of hardware? It would be big, very expensive and have terrible battery life.
How can you make an handheld with that kind of hardware? It would be big, very expensive and have terrible battery life.
OptimistPrime
Member
While I don’t think this is true, a 5nm Lockhart is not impossible. The next iPhone launching this fall will have 5nm chips from TSMC.
SteveLorde
Banned
That doesn't sound too bad. However, there's more of a value in a handheld device
hyperbertha
Member
GPU only restrictions won;t hold back anything. Memory, CPU restrictions are where problems start to happen.
OptimistPrime
Member
This is generally true today, but Intel has been stagnant lately (which is holding back Surface). I think a 3nm Lockhart could maybe fit in a 10W Switch-style handheld In a few years. This would be will really neat down the road.
Iced Arcade
Member
I don't see it, not unless they got some new battery tech.
No one wants a 2020 game Gear
No one wants a 2020 game Gear
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Because MS aren't Nintendo. They don't make Nintendo games. The Switch is the only place (without delving into emulation) to play Pokémon and those games alone bring in 16,000,000 people each time. That's what, a third of all Xbox One sales?
The portable Xbox market is completely unproven. We have no idea how many people want to play Halo on a train and frankly I really don't believe it's that many. What's the Switch got to do with anything..? The 3DS sold over 75,000,000 units, why didn't Microsoft make a handheld in response? Because it's not their market. Sony had a good run with the PSP and then fell totally flat with the Vita. It got completely abandoned. I think both companies have sensibly decided to give up that space. Making an "xbox that runs every single game but severely gimped so that we can make it handheld but also affordable" is simply not worth the time and cost when you have zero idea how many people will bother.
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Investor9872
Member
But it does mean a handheld gaming device.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Wait WTF?!? 5nm!! That would be a more advanced process node than PS5 and XSX if true. I guess since it's a much smaller APU they can afford going on a smaller node if that's the case.
It being a portable is very interesting; I thought a while ago that might've been the case but at that time they were still doing their thing with Nintendo. Them ending that recently was suspect, but I thought it was more just to keep 1st-party content in the Xbox ecosystem. But knowing now it could be a portable after all, and their partnership with Samsung...it's starting to click into place.
One thing is for sure, as a portable Lockhart makes MUCH more sense especially for Asian markets, but I think they'd still need Samsung's help in that territory. A $299 Series S Portable fits nicely into the ecosystem and doesn't offer any contention for Series X (plus it'd make a decent rival for Nintendo, and that's always nice to have...long as it's more like a PSP thing and not PS Vita thing xD).
They ended that partnership earlier this year. And for all intents and purposes, Switch is a competitor. It's still a mainstream gaming device for AAA and indie content and stuff in-between. Time that people spend playing something like Animal Crossing or Mario could be spent playing Sony or Microsoft titles, I think both of them know this.
Switch's popularity is one of the direct reasons PS4's continued to have problems in Japan; Nintendo offered a product better fitting the needs of that market. That's competition regardless of how you cut it. Microsoft understands this and even if Nintendo always comes in first WRT handheld gaming, that doesn't mean other competitors can't have success if they do things right. Sony showed this back with the PSP, that thing sold 80+ million units, the only reason it looked like a failure was because the DS damn near did 2x the sales. But PSP didn't NEED 2x the sales to be profitable or have a healthy ecosystem.
Much the same way, a Series S Portable doesn't need Switch-level sales to be healthy or profitable I'd assume. It's basically leveraging most of the same tech as the Series X, saving on R&D and production costs. Software development is massively simplified since it and Series X are the same architecture. Series S Portable would exist as an alternative choice, and potential companion device, to the Series X same way PS Vita has been for PS4, except in Series S Portable's case it'd have been designed for such from the outset.
Also this may make a lot of sense if MS decides to go with a VR headset in the near future; utilizing a Series S Portable as an extension of a Series X for processing communication tasks can help with VR fidelity in the headset, that can result in VR games with even better visuals. But the neat thing here is that Series S Portable could still provide some type of VR experience on its lonesome (just massively scaled back, obviously. Still extremely competitive with top-end mobile phone VR, however).
I think people looking at a Series S Portable not making sense because "well Nintendo always dominates the handheld market", aren't looking at this the right way. It's not about absolute hardware sales, it's about adding options and variety to the ecosystem that compliment one another. If MS does have a Series S Portable after all, they'll be the only platform holder with a complimentary home console and portable/handheld (at least portable) gaming ecosystem going into next generation. That gives them a lot of flexibility for not just general options but also game design possibilities with the two in tandem.
So yeah, I hope this is very much true.
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Bonfires Down
Member
Sounds like he’s just speculating. I really don’t expect a handheld.
JimiNutz
Banned
I have no idea if this is technically feasible but if it is a Switch type device would it be possible that it runs XSX games at 720p in handheld, 1080p when docked?
That would be amazing if possible.
LeftThumbstick
Member
If Microsoft can pull off a mini Series X in handheld form then i'd be blown away. I'm yet to see them properly handle a normal console launch so i'm skeptical. I'd go more for a smaller cube sized console that is more portable than the chunky X version that will be a much cheaper 1080p (on the go) type device at most.
Also, you don't need Pokemon to be able to make and try at the portable market, they just need to fire out better games than they have been.
Also, you don't need Pokemon to be able to make and try at the portable market, they just need to fire out better games than they have been.
BattleScar
Member
So the cheaper console is going to be running on a much more advanced process node, that AMD themselves haven't even started risk production for, for Epyc Genoa (Zen 4)...
I'm sorry, but I don't see that being the case.
I'm sorry, but I don't see that being the case.
MasterCornholio
Member
It would be but take into account that Portables don't have the same power requirements as consoles do. Not to mention the cooling systems are alot worse in them as well. I'm definitely not expecting Microsoft to shove a 20CU RDNA2 GPU into a portable system.
If anything the portable would probably be closer to current gen systems than the next gen ones. The system might even be to weak to handle some next gen games.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
A portable doesn't have to be a handheld, FWIW. Something that's more a tablet style (which Switch actually fits the description of), isn't necessarily a handheld (and certainly doesn't just fit into your pants pocket), but it's still portable.
A 20 CU Series S Portable is very possible; with a good enough docking station that can provide integrated cooling to let it perform at higher levels, meanwhile if undocked you just drop the clocks by a ton (but still enough for, say, 720p). None of this impossible, it would just require a lot of foresight into the design process and leveraging appropriate technologies the right way.
MS are in an interesting position on that note, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they have WRT Series S.
JimiNutz
Banned
This would be absolutely incredible if possible.
I would potentially buy an XSX as well as a XSS as a secondary Xbox for the gf that doubles as a portable machine that I can take on holiday. Goddamn.
Shin
Banned
Possible, but why is Matt weighing in, he's an ex Sony contractor, how would he have any idea what Lockhart is?
Seems weird, no one said it's a handheld device before, 5nm I can get behind because it is being used by Apple in the coming weeks/months.
So it would make sense for a handheld device which and where quantity will be more limited to be able to use that node, probably why MS didn't opt for 5nm because TSMC can't fulfill the order due to Apple.
If it has 5G capabilities as well then, it would be damn amazing (I wouldn't buy it, but 5G is a thing in the here and now a long with Wi-Fi 6).
Seems weird, no one said it's a handheld device before, 5nm I can get behind because it is being used by Apple in the coming weeks/months.
So it would make sense for a handheld device which and where quantity will be more limited to be able to use that node, probably why MS didn't opt for 5nm because TSMC can't fulfill the order due to Apple.
If it has 5G capabilities as well then, it would be damn amazing (I wouldn't buy it, but 5G is a thing in the here and now a long with Wi-Fi 6).
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