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[apujanata]

http://www.vgcharts.org/japconscomps.php?name1=PS2&name2=GC&type=2&align=1

1. You use vgcharts, which are NOT M-create. VGcharts contain so many changes, it is normally not acceptable to GAF.
2. You still haven't pointed out the actual long stretches period you mentioned where you said PS2 are > 6 times GC. I would like to see what exactly you meant with long stretches.

 

[jamesinclair]

M-create yearly data :
PS2 :
2002 3,511,200
2003 2,995,200
2004 2,898,774
2005 1,968,846
2006 1,311,867
2007 1,129,300
2008 1,027,200
2009 726,640
2010 273,180
2011 82,716

.

Fixed

 

[HyperionX]

1. You use vgcharts, which are NOT M-create. VGcharts contain so many changes, it is normally not acceptable to GAF.

It's within plausibility in it's numbers.

2. You still haven't pointed out the actual long stretches period you mentioned where you said PS2 are > 6 times GC. I would like to see what exactly you meant with long stretches.

You can read a chart can't you? HINT: Start looking at week 110 and down to see the periods of dominance.

 

[apujanata]

It was another thread on neoGAF. The one with the graphs showing DS and PSP sales. Not sure if I can find it quickly.

EDIT: The DS selling 27 million came here:

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=14523

So, we have the source of the 27 Million DS SOLD. How about the 17 million PSP ? Please do not use SCE's figure, since we all know that it is shipped (or should be produced), not sold.

 

[Barf_the_Mog]

If we're continuing this PSP debate, I'd also like to point out that the PSP is tracking ahead in the months leading up to Nov/Dec then in 2005 where it sold over 1.6 million units over the Christmas shopping season. By the end of the year, the PSP will have sold 7.5 million units in North America compared to Nintendo's 9.3 - 9.5 million DS'. This despite the fact that the Nintendo DS had one extra holiday season and is one third cheaper. If Sony dropped their price, I could see that gap close very quickly.

 

[apujanata]

Fixed

Ahem. PS2's 2006 figure should be higher, since I'm showing the YTD so far (haven't included Dec 06 sales).

But anyway, I got your meaning. PS2 is a beast.

 

[Oblivion]

LOL @ GC benchmark.

Hyperion, it's not only the internet that thinks PSP is in deep shit. Publishers think so as well, and are dropping support like flies. Hardware sales are OKAY. Software sales are abominable. I would've called it a portable GC, but I don't think that's fair to the GC. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap.

 

[Culex]

If we're continuing this PSP debate, I'd also like to point out that the PSP is tracking ahead in the months leading up to Nov/Dec then in 2005 where it sold over 1.6 million units over the Christmas shopping season. By the end of the year, the PSP will have sold 7.5 million units in North America compared to Nintendo's 9.3 - 9.5 million DS'. This despite the fact that the Nintendo DS had one extra holiday season and is one third cheaper. If Sony dropped their price, I could see that gap close very quickly.

Isn't this thread based on Japanese numbers and not US numbers? I thought the whole argument was that the PSP was dead in Japan.

 

[HyperionX]

So, we have the source of the 27 Million DS SOLD. How about the 17 million PSP ? Please do not use SCE's figure, since we all know that it is shipped (or should be produced), not sold.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117497&postcount=178

So it was 26 million to 15.7 million as of October.

 

[ethelred]

If we're continuing this PSP debate, I'd also like to point out that the PSP is tracking ahead in the months leading up to Nov/Dec then in 2005 where it sold over 1.6 million units over the Christmas shopping season.

Are you talking about North America? It's not tracking ahead.

August - October 2005:
167,000
146,000
132,000

August - October 2006:
146,000
153,353
130,000

PSP was ahead in 2005 in August and October. Its 2006 September is ahead of 05, but only by 7k -- a figure much smaller than its loss in the other two months.

Also, it didn't sell 1.6 million over the Christmas shopping season. It did 1.47. It'll probably do about the same this year -- maybe a bit less.

Anyway, all this discussion is moot. First, this is a Japanese sales thread, and secon, er, as has been pointed out before, the primary issue people have been noting in predicting rocky waters ahead for the PSP is its software sales, not its hardware sales.

Its HW sales are okay, I guess... comparable to the GBA in North America, which probably isn't the best position to be in for a relatively new system vs. a dead one, but whatever. Its software sales are... not okay.

 

[apujanata]

It's within plausibility in it's numbers.

You can read a chart can't you? HINT: Start looking at week 110 and down to see the periods of dominance.

Week 110 is April 6, 2002. It most probably meant the week of march 31, 2002 - April 7, 2002.

VGcharts figure :
PS2 : 85,000
GCN : 13,250

M-create figure :
PS2 : 80,734
GCN : 15,068

Notice something different ? PS2 was inflated on vgcharts, while GCN was deflated on vgcharts. I believe this answers your comment of vgcharts plausibility.

Anyway, I think you are wrong in considering PSP as not a failure. Many people considered GCN as a failure, and therefore many people also considered PSP as failure. No double standard here.

 

[Barf_the_Mog]

Isn't this thread based on Japanese numbers and not US numbers? I thought the whole argument was that the PSP was dead in Japan.

Well, technically yeah, but I think it's worth mentioning that the PSP is still healthy despite what's going on in Japan. I mean, Japan hasn't been necessary since the early 1990s; The Nintendo 64, Xbox, Xbox 360, and Gamecube have already proven that.

 

[ethelred]

Well, technically yeah, but I think it's worth mentioning that the PSP is still healthy despite what's going on in Japan. I mean, Japan hasn't been necessary since the early 1990s; The Nintendo 64, Xbox, Xbox 360, and Gamecube have already proven that.

How have they proven that Japan isn't "necessary?"

Three systems which lost Japan went on to lose in overall worldwide marketshare and this proves that Japan is unnecessary?

 

[BorkBork]

Well, technically yeah, but I think it's worth mentioning that the PSP is still healthy despite what's going on in Japan. I mean, Japan hasn't been necessary since the early 1990s; The Nintendo 64, Xbox, Xbox 360, and Gamecube have already proven that.

All those consoles lost the console war because they didn't have major Japanese support. Not necessary my ass.

 

[HyperionX]

Week 110 is April 6, 2002. It most probably meant the week of march 31, 2002 - April 7, 2002.

VGcharts figure :
PS2 : 85,000
GCN : 13,250

M-create figure :
PS2 : 80,734
GCN : 15,068

Notice something different ? PS2 was inflated on vgcharts, while GCN was deflated on vgcharts. I believe this answers your comment of vgcharts plausibility.

Anyway, I think you are wrong in considering PSP as not a failure. Many people considered GCN as a failure, and therefore many people also considered PSP as failure. No double standard here.

Feel free to look at the following weeks after week 110 then. The gap is even then that larger for about 3 months after week 110.

 

[apujanata]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117497&postcount=178

So it was 26 million to 15.7 million as of October.

Interesting note :

UPDATED FOR AUGUST:
WW Estimated LTD:
NDS - 22.77m
PSP - 15.10m

NDS over PSP Lead: 7.67m +0.68m vs. July.

UPDATED THRU OCTOBER 2006:

Sales by Region:
_____Asia N. America Europe/PAL
DS - 11.94m 7.07m 7.01m = >26.03m sold WW
PSP - 4.83m 5.62m 5.27m = >15.72m sold WW

Regional Gap:
_____7.11m 1.45m 1.74m = 10.31m difference WW

Did you notice the widening gap from August to Oct 06 ? An increase of about 30%+ gap (from 7.67 to 10.31) in only 2 month ?

 

[HyperionX]

Interesting note :


Did you notice the widening gap from August to Oct 06 ? An increase of about 30%+ gap (from 7.67 to 10.31) in only 2 month ?

Actually I think he merely revised the estimates.

 

[apujanata]

Feel free to look at the following weeks after week 110 then. The gap is even then that larger for about 3 months after week 110.

yes, it is true. And the gap got closed extremely during the holiday season.
If you look at PSP sales during November 06 compared to Nov 05, you will see a downward trend there.

PSP Oct & Nov 06 :
Oct Week 1 (25-01) 25,319
Oct Week 2 (02-08) 21,050
Oct Week 3 (09-15) 21,603
Oct Week 4 (16-22) 20,271
Oct Week 5 (23-29) 25,908
Nov Week 1 (30-05) 23,725
Nov Week 2 (06-12) 19,123

PSP Oct & Nov 05 :
Oct Week 1 (26-02) 31,702
Oct Week 2 (03-09) 31,089
Oct Week 3 (10-16) 29,162
Oct Week 4 (17-23) 28,067
Oct Week 5 (24-30) 27,837
Nov Week 1 (31-06) 29,395
Nov Week 2 (07-13) 31,078

Did you notice any trend ? Did you realise why everyone is concerned for PSP ?

 

[HyperionX]

yes, it is true. And the gap got closed extremely during the holiday season.
If you look at PSP sales during November 06 compared to Nov 05, you will see a downward trend there.

PSP Oct & Nov 06 :
Oct Week 1 (25-01) 25,319
Oct Week 2 (02-08) 21,050
Oct Week 3 (09-15) 21,603
Oct Week 4 (16-22) 20,271
Oct Week 5 (23-29) 25,908
Nov Week 1 (30-05) 23,725
Nov Week 2 (06-12) 19,123

PSP Oct & Nov 05 :
Oct Week 1 (26-02) 31,702
Oct Week 2 (03-09) 31,089
Oct Week 3 (10-16) 29,162
Oct Week 4 (17-23) 28,067
Oct Week 5 (24-30) 27,837
Nov Week 1 (31-06) 29,395
Nov Week 2 (07-13) 31,078

Did you notice any trend ? Did you realise why everyone is concerned for PSP ?

And? I did say there was some slippage regarding the PSP in Japan. However it's not in the 5-10k GC saw for long stretches of time. And it's not like the GC recuperated after the holidays; it went nowhere after that and continue to suck even harder. And you know what's even worse? The GC costed less than the PS2 then. The PSP costs more than the DS now. Big difference.

Everything we see with the PSP is fairly plausible for a system with not a single pricecut throughout it's entire life. Don't be surprised if a pricecut and a redesign kicks the PSP back into gear again.

 

[NintendosBooger]

Price is a factor, but not a deciding one. If it were, the GC would have been more successful in NA against its more expensive competitors, the XBox and the PS2. The fact is, it boils down to games. The GC didn't have a steady stream of them, and as a result, it suffered. Now the PSP has the games, much like the DS has games, but they don't seem to be the games that a lot of today's game buyers want in relation to those on the DS. PSP needs to fix that problem first (and it is a big one), and once it does, a price drop and redesign would cause Nintendo some serious worries.

 

[ethelred]

HAY GUYZ how about that software, huh?

 

[apujanata]

And? I did say there was some slippage regarding the PSP in Japan. However it's not in the 5-10k GC saw for long stretches of time. And it's not like the GC recuperated after the holidays; it went nowhere after that and continue to suck even harder. And you know what's even worse? The GC costed less than the PS2 then. The PSP costs more than the DS now. Big difference.

Everything we see with the PSP is fairly plausible for a system with not a single pricecut throughout it's entire life. Don't be surprised if a pricecut and a redesign kicks the PSP back into gear again.

I hope you are right. We as gamer, do not want anyone (be that Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft) became a monopoly in game sectory. It is not good to gamers.

 

[jesusraz]

Any chance someone can translate the rest of these, please?

14　DS　Castlevania PoR - 16000 | 16000　52
16　PS3　Ridge Racer 7 - 10000 | 32000　33
17　DS　Winning Eleven DS - 10000 | 123000　67
19　PS3　Gundam - 9500 | 31000　33
21　DS　カート　8800 | 1742000　97
23　DS　Final Fantasy III - 8200　860000　83
35　GBA　宝石　4000　1742000　99
40　DS　目で　3000　10000　41
42　DS　チン　3100　180000　89
43　GBA　赤　2800　1503000　－
47　DS　蘇る　2500　111000　91
58　GBA　緑　1700　1206000　－
62　DS　新牧　1600　101000　88

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

what is the deal with two screens anyway?

http://wiki.joshuajamesslone.name/tiki-index.php?page=Having+two+screens+is+pointless.

It sold over 300,000 units, so it must be a success.

I approve of this message!

 

[medrew]

To the best of my skills

21　DS　カート　8800 | 1742000　97
Mario Kart DS

40　DS　目で　3000　10000　41
Reading Training (WTF, that can't be right :lol )

47　DS　蘇る　2500　111000　91
Phoenix Wright

62　DS　新牧　1600　101000　88
Harvest Moon Rune Factory

 

[Rock_Man]

Some of you won't like this, but fact is that PSP has sold more software this year than last year in Japan (Jan-Oct). The following graph is based on the Famitsu pie charts and Famitsu numbers by cvxfreak (Dec 04 - Mar 06).

 

[Rock_Man]

And for those interested, here is a similar chart for DS.

 

[Throwaway123456789]

Prepare to feel the ban hammer, HyperionX. VGCharts.org is banned from the Media Create topics.

 

[HyperionX]

Prepare to feel the ban hammer, HyperionX. VGCharts.org is banned from the Media Create topics.

:lol You wish.

 

[MrSardonic]

Some of you won't like this, but fact is that PSP has sold more software this year than last year in Japan (Jan-Oct).

and given the size of the install base, the software sales for both years are shit

 

[ethelred]

Some of you won't like this, but fact is that PSP has sold more software this year than last year in Japan (Jan-Oct).

Well, that's good, actually. I'm glad to hear that. I still wish the software situation could improve, though... because it's not a big increase, and the software is still not at what I could consider to be a good level.

and given the size of the install base, the software sales for both years are shit

Wait -- 950,000 average weekly sales is shit?

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Wait -- 950,000 average weekly sales is shit?

I don't believe PSP software has cracked 950,000 software sales in a month yet.

 

[Magicpaint]

Wait -- 950,000 average weekly sales is shit?

I think he was referring to the PSP software sales, not DS

 

[ethelred]

I don't believe PSP software has cracked 950,000 software sales in a month yet.

I think he was referring to the PSP software sales, not DS

Well, he said "both."

Edit: Nevermind. Both "years." It's 6 AM and I'm playing Zelda when I should be sleeping.

 

[D.Lo]

Well, he said "both."

Edit: Nevermind. Both "years." It's 6 AM and I'm playing Zelda when I should be sleeping.

He meant 'both years for PSP'

 

[Notorious_Roy]

Well, were are the new MC numbers?

 

[AniHawk]

Well, technically yeah, but I think it's worth mentioning that the PSP is still healthy despite what's going on in Japan. I mean, Japan hasn't been necessary since the early 1990s; The Nintendo 64, Xbox, Xbox 360, and Gamecube have already proven that.

PSP is selling a "healthy" amount of hardware (read: not disastrous), but its software sales are abysmal. THAT'S where the BIG problem is.

Also, Japan is sorta the Ohio of the industry (to bring up an old example of mine). If it becomes big in Japan, there's a huge chance it'll be big elsewhere. And with a less likelihood of that happening (less Japanese developers trying something new, different, bold, whatever)... well, you get the idea.

One last thought- comparing the PSP to systems that have lost their parent companies BILLIONS of dollars and systems that were carried primarily by first party efforts probably isn't the best way to go.

 

[gconsole]

PSP is selling a "healthy" amount of hardware (read: not disastrous), but its software sales are abysmal. THAT'S where the BIG problem is.

Also, Japan is sorta the Ohio of the industry (to bring up an old example of mine). If it becomes big in Japan, there's a huge chance it'll be big elsewhere. And with a less likelihood of that happening (less Japanese developers trying something new, different, bold, whatever)... well, you get the idea.

One last thought- comparing the PSP to systems that have lost their parent companies BILLIONS of dollars and systems that were carried primarily by first party efforts probably isn't the best way to go.

1 We shouldn't compare any company to Nintendo because of their strong 1st party games?
2 We shouldn't compare any company to Sony because their parent company is loosing billions dollar ?

so

3 We shouldn't compare any company to Microsoft because of its rich.

This means we shouldn't do any comparation in videogames industry.
Am I correct ?

 

[AniHawk]

1 We shouldn't compare any company to Nintendo because of their strong 1st party games?
2 We shouldn't compare any company to Sony because their parent company is loosing billions dollar ?

so

3 We shouldn't compare any company to Microsoft because of its rich.

This means we shouldn't do any comparation in videogames industry.
Am I correct ?

I'm saying that those systems lived through success that isn't really wanted. Nintendo's systems were supported mainly by 1st party efforts and some 3rd party software, but they forced themselves into a corner, and MS bled its way in, but had a lot of 3rd party software that sold well. None of which Sony is currently seeing or doing with the PSP.

That second point you misinterpreted was me referring to Microsoft, not Sony.

 

[First Children]

Some of you won't like this, but fact is that PSP has sold more software this year than last year in Japan (Jan-Oct). The following graph is based on the Famitsu pie charts and Famitsu numbers by cvxfreak (Dec 04 - Mar 06).

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7361/psp0506ks5.png

Probably because the games of last year continued selling a small # of units, and were added to the new games released...
The Gamecube must have a good numbers of games sold too even if there are no new games in the weekly charts.

 

[Masklinn]

And for those interested, here is a similar chart for DS.

Some of you won't like this, but fact is that PSP has sold more software this year than last year in Japan (Jan-Oct). The following graph is based on the Famitsu pie charts and Famitsu numbers by cvxfreak (Dec 04 - Mar 06).

Those charts don't tell the whole story though.

Merging them is much more interesting:

Yes, the bunch of gray lines at the very bottom is the PSP chart, scaled to DS software sales chart

 

[slaughterking]

Do we get updated software/hardware numbers later on?

 

[Moor-Angol]

is it true that Love & Berry got 1 million preorders, as gonintendo said, or it's around 300k as i read here?

 

[Parl]

I hope you are right. We as gamer, do not want anyone (be that Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft) became a monopoly in game sectory. It is not good to gamers.

But unfortunately, the PSP's gear will always be far lower than that of the DS. The PSP is only selling as well as it currently is because of the software being released for it that was started while publishers throught the console was doing pretty good, or at least decent. Next year is the start of PSP DECLINE - a decline from where it currently is, which isn't pretty anyway.

However, price cut, redesign and digital software distribution can also give it extra momentum. But bearing in mind that Ds momentum is actually on the increase, which is a remarkable notion (but true), and developer support increasing week by week, next year will see the DS do significantly better than it currently is, even in Japan, but mainly in Europe and NA ( at least compared to PSP).

DS will , by the end of next year, be selling at a rate against PSP similar to that of what the PS2 has done with GC and Xbox on a worldwide scale. That's how momentum works - the third party support goes to where there's third party support. As soon as the scale has turned, the momentum gap keeps widening unless action is taken (price drop, publisher incentives, killer apps (Nintendogs), redesign, etc).

And many signs indicate a similar situation will happen with Wii. Gaming is going mass-market, and the hardcore titles will be niche compared. Luckily, so many developers' talents and experience is so geared towards titles that appeal to us, that they'll find it easier and more enjoyable to make games for us. So we should be fine.

 

[Drakken]

So what's the deal with those numbers posted above? Those are unofficial non-MC numbers?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Dunno about Love & Berry numbers but the usual preorder numbers we get are by retailers.

In a japanese website where users make predictions for new releases...all of them put Love & Berry #1 for this week with numbers going from 550k to 1m...

Probably going to be the biggest 3rd party effort for DS, near if not above Tamagotchi...I would have liked other game like FF3 to take that spot but well...:lol

At least it doesn't seem that it'll bomb like other previously taken as 3rd party potential good sellers like Tales of the Tempest, Winning Eleven DS or Mushiking 2.


Btw, PS3 showing about what I expected...Wii60 combo to prevent PS3 leading the market lol

 

[cw_sasuke]

In a japanese website where users make predictions for new releases...all of them put Love & Berry #1 for this week with numbers going from 550k to 1m...

Wow....

what about ultimate jump superstar - can it reach 500k in first week ?

 

[donny2112]

Hopefully the Media-Create website itself will update tonight. I hope they haven't decided to stop publishing their numbers.

 

[winston_pr]

Why is PS3 on the DS top ten?

Best comment in a while!:lol

 

[Markster]

Where's the new chart??? I demand new chart!

Guh, must calm down.... come back in 6 hours...