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[Captain Smoker]

Who cares about Japan sales. What are WW sales for SMG?

USA: 2.695.070 [till end of Jan. 08] [NPD]
E.U.: 1.300.000 [till end of Dec. 07] [Nintendo]
Jap.: 876.820 [till 02/24/08] [Famitsu]
Kan.: 94.000 [till end of Nov. 07] [NPD]
Aus.: 54.079 [till end of Dec. 07] [GfK]
---------------------------------------------
Total: 5.019.969



Till end of February 08 probably 5.500.000 units.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

5-6 millionz

Already better then Sunshine. More then enough for me.

 

[jarrod]

It's hard to have a proper debate from the high ground, so I thought I'd come down to your level.

Aaaand here comes the unwarranted arrogance and sense of entitlement! Never change ethel. <3 <3

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

It's hard to have a proper debate from the high ground, so I thought I'd come down to your level.

All the human are on the same level. You are NOT better then any other human on this planet, exactly as you are NOT worse then any other person.

If you believe yourself superior, then you're only an arrogant. And for what? Experience says that try to convince people that you're right and others wrong is useless and immature.

Do you have your idea? Let's discuss it all together.

Do you think that your idea is the right one? Keep this for yourself.

 

[donny2112]

All the human are on the same level. You are NOT better then any other human on this planet, exactly as you are NOT worse then any other person.

If you believe yourself superior, then you're only an arrogant. And for what? Experience says that try to convince people that you're right and others wrong is useless and immature.

Do you have your idea? Let's discuss it all together.

Do you think that your idea is the right one? Keep this for yourself.

This discussion does not belong in the gaming forum. Of course, I think that's the right idea to take on this subject, so I should've kept it to myself. Ooops.

 

[ethelred]

You wouldn't be a good politician, you know?

You might be surprised.

All the human are on the same level. You are NOT better then any other human on this planet, exactly as you are NOT worse then any other person.

If you believe yourself superior, then you're only an arrogant. And for what? Experience says that try to convince people that you're right and others wrong is useless and immature.

Do you have your idea? Let's discuss it all together.

Do you think that your idea is the right one? Keep this for yourself.

Hmm. Yeah, I think this one can be safely filed away in the "lol what" category. Hey, if you want to practice your singing of Kumbaya, I'm sure there's a nice spot off in a corner somewhere. This here is a debate thread, though, and a few elbows might get thrown.

 

[Kyoufu]

Don't slay me, but posting these from a banned site. Is it old? First day sales:

* Ryuga Gotoku Kenzan! [Yakuza 3] (PS3, Sega) - 113,000
* Metroid Prime 3 Corruption (Wii, Nintendo) - 20,000
* Everybody's Common Sense Power TV (Wii, Nintendo) - 5,000
* Guitar Hero III (PS3, Activision) - 3,000
* Guitar Hero III (PS2, Activision) - 3,000
* Family Jockey (Wii, Bandai Namco) - 2,500

 

[cvxfreak]

Oh, absolutely. We can look at objective criteria like prominence of the team placed on the project, the system the project on which was developed, its release relative to the main series, and so on. Crisis Core was a central piece of the Compilation project and so was of course a high profile spinoff, but the biggest ever? No, not really. There's also the matter of who the final arbiters are of how high profile and major a spinoff are. Would it be the consumers? In their judgment, it was not the biggest.

This makes sense and seems to not be a real issue here.

It's also pretty easy to objectively place it outside whatever category FFX-2 falls under: X-2 retains the same development team as its original game, was in fact developed by the "main" Final Fantasy series team, and worked off the same core gameplay as the main system rather than mechanically going a spinoff route; narratively, it also directly continued the main story arc of the original game by featuring one of the two central characters of the original, whereas Crisis Core focused on a tertiary character from the original story and told his story -- and while his story may well expand the mythology of the original story, it's still not at all the same thing.

And there we have it. Objectivity.

...the implied stance of this statement doesn't make as much sense to me. I agree with the facts presented here, but not necessarily the conclusion. For this to work, you have to isolate Final Fantasy from other game series with varying gameplay styles using subjective reasoning. This results in placing FF on its own pedestal, which I don't buy without a good explanation.

Resident Evil 4 features drastically different gameplay from the traditional game series. It's just as drastic as the difference between the PSone and PSP chapters of the FFVII series. Maybe even more so. Yet it's still undisputedly a sequel, and not a spinoff. Meanwhile, a game with comparably traditional gameplay, Resident Evil Outbreak, is considered a spinoff. Like FF, the RE series overtime has been developed by multiple development teams.

So we have other situations that allow for Crisis Core to be considered in the same category as FFX-2 despite the difference in premise. Moreover, jarrod said similar categories. Another argument that puts a roadblock in ethelred's is that even the main FF series itself doesn't abide by any strict rules. Look at FFXI. Can someone give me a good explanation as to how anything in FFXI other than its numeral give it status in the main series (something he puts FFX-2 in), while CC is out?

 

[Innotech]

games are only a spinoff if they are on a Nintendo system. Everyone knows that.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Don't slay me, but posting these from a banned site. Is it old? First day sales:

* Ryuga Gotoku Kenzan! [Yakuza 3] (PS3, Sega) - 113,000
* Metroid Prime 3 Corruption (Wii, Nintendo) - 20,000
* Everybody's Common Sense Power TV (Wii, Nintendo) - 5,000
* Guitar Hero III (PS3, Activision) - 3,000
* Guitar Hero III (PS2, Activision) - 3,000
* Family Jockey (Wii, Bandai Namco) - 2,500

God fucking damn it

Not only old (we've had day one #s for a while), but knowingly from the banned site? You know that sort of qualifies you yourself for a ban, right?

 

[Innotech]

God fucking damn it

Not only old (we've had day one #s for a while), but knowingly from the banned site? You know that sort of qualifies you yourself for a ban, right?

get im Segata

 

[batbeg]

God fucking damn it

Not only old (we've had day one #s for a while), but knowingly from the banned site? You know that sort of qualifies you yourself for a ban, right?

It only qualifies from a ban if its ********, from the way the FAQ reads. But yah...

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

get im Segata

It's not like I want Kyoufu to get banned, but this constant stream of people posting Oi-Oi's made up numbers and saying, "These are from the banned site, but HERE YOU GO <giggle>!!" really needs to stop.

If a site is banned, it's banned for a reason, and that reason isn't that seeing the URL typed out offends our eyes. The information from those places has been deemed faulty.

In conclusion, STOP IT.

 

[cvxfreak]

 

[ethelred]

Look at FFXI. Can someone give me a good explanation as to how anything in FFXI other than its numeral give it status in the main series (something he puts FFX-2 in), while CC is out?

Its numeral. Final Fantasy XI is the eleventh entry in the series; it's part of the main series accordingly, and not a separate spinoff set apart from the main entries. I've acknowledged that X-2 is more arguable (and, point in fact, I believe this is an argument these threads have had on three separate prior occasions regarding this specific game), but so far as I'm concerned the 10-2 numerical classification places it right in the main series.

It's not as cut-and-dry, granted, but that's my view all the same. That doesn't even touch upon Crisis Core (and remember, my response to Jarrod was only for the purposes of noting differences between that game and X-2 -- that's where elements like team composition or gameplay similarities or side story [albeit one that adds considerably to the mythology] versus direct narrative arc continuation come into play) or Tactics, which are clearly spinoffs by any definition. Or, as I said before:

Fair enough, but in a series with a rigid numbering system and a set number of games falling outside of that numbering system, it seems pretty logical to classify the first group as the main series and the second as spinoffs (irrespective of quality, even though I consider FFT to be one of the finest games bearing the moniker). That seems to be the common definition and the one with the widest accuracy. Obviously waters get muddied when talking about non-numbered series.

Obviously this doesn't apply to series like Zelda or Mario, but to go back to your Resident Evil example -- while 4 may have changed things up drastically, it's still Resident Evil 4.

 

[Redd]

What about Code Veronica? It doesn't have a number and all but it plays like it's part of the main series of Resident Evil.

 

[cvxfreak]

Its numeral. Final Fantasy XI is the eleventh entry in the series; it's part of the main series accordingly, and not a separate spinoff set apart from the main entries. I've acknowledged that X-2 is more arguable (and, point in fact, I believe this is an argument these threads have had on three separate prior occasions regarding this specific game), but so far as I'm concerned the 10-2 numerical classification places it right in the main series.

It's not as cut-and-dry, granted, but that's my view all the same. That doesn't even touch upon Crisis Core (and remember, my response to Jarrod was only for the purposes of noting differences between that game and X-2) or Tactics, which are clearly spinoffs by any definition. Or, as I said before:


Obviously this doesn't apply to series like Zelda or Mario, but to go back to your Resident Evil example -- while 4 may have changed things up drastically, it's still Resident Evil 4.

That's a very fair way of putting it. Thanks.

 

[Souldriver]

It's not like I want Kyoufu to get banned, but this constant stream of people posting Oi-Oi's made up numbers and saying, "These are from the banned site, but HERE YOU GO <giggle>!!" really needs to stop.

If a site is banned, it's banned for a reason, and that reason isn't that seeing the URL typed out offends our eyes. The information from those places has been deemed faulty.

In conclusion, STOP IT.

Plus: if the numbers on the banned site are not wrong, it means they're old, cause oi oi probably gets them from here anyway.

 

[rod]

i must admit its been a good 6 months since ive read a sales thread, but WTF happened to wii and ds? :/

 

[ethelred]

i must admit its been a good 6 months since ive read a sales thread, but WTF happened to wii and ds? :/

Japan wised up.

 

[schuelma]

i must admit its been a good 6 months since ive read a sales thread, but WTF happened to wii and ds? :/

What do you mean re: Wii sales?

 

[Hcoregamer00]

i must admit its been a good 6 months since ive read a sales thread, but WTF happened to wii and ds? :/

DS: 20+ million consoles, saturation point at that price level
Wii: Selling well.

If anything the question should be, what the hell happened to the PS3? This is supposed to be PS3's year, and yet the console is doing miserable.

 

[Fady K]

DS: 20+ million consoles, saturation point at that price level
Wii: Selling well.

If anything the question should be, what the hell happened to the PS3? This is supposed to be PS3's year, and yet the console is doing miserable.

Agreed a 100%, though there are simply no must buys at this point I think, Yakuza 3 will probably sell well, Devil May Cry 4 sold better than its previous counterparts on the PS2 which is saying a lot, and Disgaea 3, especially in comparison to the PS2 games which have a much larger userbase is good news I think. Though right now, the situation is dire, and few hits are hitting the market. Yakuza 3 should help out hopefully.

 

[schuelma]

Agreed a 100%, though there are simply no must buys at this point I think, Yakuza 3 will probably sell well, Devil May Cry 4 sold better than its previous counterparts on the PS2 which is saying a lot, and Disgaea 3, especially in comparison to the PS2 games which have a much larger userbase is good news I think. Though right now, the situation is dire, and few hits are hitting the market. Yakuza 3 should help out hopefully.

Yakuza will help out for one week, maybe bump it up to 25-30K, and then it will go right back down until the next big release.

 

[Fady K]

Yakuza will help out for one week, maybe bump it up to 25-30K, and then it will go right back down until the next big release.

I think so too, a steady stream of releases is what it needs in order to remain at 30k+ a week.

 

[schuelma]

I think so too, a steady stream of releases is what it needs in order to remain at 30k+ a week.

I agree, but they still don't have them.

 

[Lightning]

This is supposed to be PS3's year, and yet the console is doing miserable.

Not in Japan...

You look at the PS3 gaming lineup and tell me how the hell 2008 is supposed to be the year for the PS3 in Japan? ALL the biggest games Sony are releasing are aimed at the west.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Not in Japan...

You look at the PS3 gaming lineup and tell me how the hell 2008 is supposed to be the year for the PS3 in Japan? ALL the biggest games Sony are releasing are aimed at the west.

I guess they'll get around to Japan in '09 then?

Better late then never, I suppose.

 

[ethelred]

DS: 20+ million consoles, saturation point at that price level
Wii: Selling well.

If anything the question should be, what the hell happened to the PS3? This is supposed to be PS3's year, and yet the console is doing miserable.

The "saturation point" line needs to be retired, so thoroughly disproven it is.

 

[schuelma]

I guess they'll get around to Japan in '09 then?

Better late then never, I suppose.

It's hard to multi task you know

 

[Lightning]

I guess they'll get around to Japan in '09 then?

Better late then never, I suppose.

I don't think Sony are going to get around to Japan ever. I think they are going to just leave it to 3rd parties like Konami and Square Enix for as long as they possibly can. Sony simply don't have their own development studios that can create major Japan centric games and Sony don't seem to be showing Microsofts level of aggression in seeking Japan games.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I don't think Sony are going to get around to Japan ever. I think they are going to just leave it to 3rd parties like Konami and Square Enix for as long as they possibly can. Sony simply don't have their own development studios that can create major Japan centric games and Sony don't seem to be showing Microsofts level of aggression in seeking Japan games.

Yeah, sadly it seems to be the case.

 

[Lobster]

Not in Japan...

You look at the PS3 gaming lineup and tell me how the hell 2008 is supposed to be the year for the PS3 in Japan? ALL the biggest games Sony are releasing are aimed at the west.

It is Ps3s year where exactly?

 

[_Alkaline_]

i must admit its been a good 6 months since ive read a sales thread, but WTF happened to wii and ds? :/

What?

The Wii is selling in the top 2 practically every week.

 

[sphinx]

It is Ps3s year where exactly?

maybe in Europe.

In the bigger scope of things, PS3 has lost US and Japan forever. In the US, the Wii and also the 360 to some extent, have captured too much attention and it's not going to stop.
MGS4 is too much a hardcore game to bring the tide turning results people are expecting.

Japan couldn't care any less about PS360.

it really is shocking, they don't give a shit about expensive high definition consoles. I am sure it is not going to change anytime soon. If Sony somehow manages to redesign the PS3 somewhere in 2009 or 10 and retrieve the support from 3rd parties and bring a different, more consumer friendly prices, It may just work well.

I don't see the PS3 getting a second chance like the PSP in Japan. The PSP has always been appreciated in Japan, the slim version helped spice things up but it was neve a failure.

Jaoan has NEVER ever cared about the PS3, it's exactly like Gamecube, doomed from the very beginning.

 

[donny2112]

maybe in Europe.

Not compared to the Wii. Sony projects that they'll pass the 360 by the summer in Europe, though. U.K. will take a bit longer.

I've said this before, and I'm still thinking things are shaping up this way. The PS3 is going to be the GameCube of last generation if the Xbox hadn't existed. Just speaking of hardware sales per territory. You can already see this in Japan where the Xbox effectively never existed.

 

[Lightning]

The Wii doesn't matter. No matter what the hardware sales are, the software sales will never match the combined sales of the PS3/360 combined outside Japan. As a result of this the big 3rd parties in the west will put their best games on the PS3/360 as they are currently doing and Square Enix are proving to be useless for all current gen consoles so far. All their biggest games outside of FFXIII are heading to handhelds.

As as such, does it really matter? I wouldn't care about the PS3 Japan sales at all if FFXIII wasn't a PS3 exclusive and wasn't on course to totally underperform. Because if the PS3 is this gens "Gamecube" then FFXIII cannot possibly sell more than 1-1.4mil copies total lifetime and even then the attach ratio is very high... That will be extremely disappointing. If FFXIII doesn't break 2mil in Japan then fuck Sony because it will be their fault.

The FF franchise is awesome, main games of course, and it will annoy me terribly if FFXIII fails because of the PS3. FFXII didn't sell to expectations and it will be very bad for the franchise for FFXIII to meet a similar fate...

 

[ethelred]

The FF franchise is awesome, main games of course, and it will annoy me terribly if FFXIII fails because of the PS3. FFXII didn't sell to expectations and it will be very bad for the franchise for FFXIII to meet a similar fate...

I can't think of a single outcome better than dramatic underperformance for Final Fantasy XIII.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

The Wii doesn't matter. No matter what the hardware sales are, the software sales will never match the combined sales of the PS3/360 combined outside Japan.

wat

 

[Polari]

PS3 2008 BELIEVE

 

[donny2112]

wat

Yeah. The Wii is currently outselling the 360 month-to-month in software and is above the 360 at the same point in its lifespan in the U.S. It'll likely end up selling more software month-to-month than the 360 and PS3 combined in the U.S. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see the same outcome in Europe. Japan was never a question as far as total software goes.

 

[BishopLamont]

The Wii doesn't matter. No matter what the hardware sales are, the software sales will never match the combined sales of the PS3/360 combined outside Japan. As a result of this the big 3rd parties in the west will put their best games on the PS3/360 as they are currently doing and Square Enix are proving to be useless for all current gen consoles so far. All their biggest games outside of FFXIII are heading to handhelds.

As as such, does it really matter? I wouldn't care about the PS3 Japan sales at all if FFXIII wasn't a PS3 exclusive and wasn't on course to totally underperform. Because if the PS3 is this gens "Gamecube" then FFXIII cannot possibly sell more than 1-1.4mil copies total lifetime and even then the attach ratio is very high... That will be extremely disappointing. If FFXIII doesn't break 2mil in Japan then fuck Sony because it will be their fault.

The FF franchise is awesome, main games of course, and it will annoy me terribly if FFXIII fails because of the PS3. FFXII didn't sell to expectations and it will be very bad for the franchise for FFXIII to meet a similar fate...

Ways to make the Wii irrelevant:

1.Disregard certain regions.
2.Disregard hardware sales.
3.Disregard first party software.
4.Combine software sales.
5.Waggle.
6.???
7.Profits!

 

[batbeg]

The FF franchise is awesome, main games of course, and it will annoy me terribly if FFXIII fails because of the PS3. FFXII didn't sell to expectations and it will be very bad for the franchise for FFXIII to meet a similar fate...

How did it not? It sold about 4 million or so. Compare the fallout numbers of FFVIII/IX to FFVII and it seems comparable enough.

Anyway, I very strongly doubt FFXIII will only manage 1-1.5 million, though it's difficult to tell if you're talking Japan only or worldwide. It will obviously pass 1.5 million. Didn't FFCC even pass 1 million (I fully admit I don't know this for sure, but I've heard it said before)?

 

[Saitou]

The Wii doesn't matter. No matter what the hardware sales are, the software sales will never match the combined sales of the PS3/360 combined outside Japan. As a result of this the big 3rd parties in the west will put their best games on the PS3/360 as they are currently doing and Square Enix are proving to be useless for all current gen consoles so far. All their biggest games outside of FFXIII are heading to handhelds.

As as such, does it really matter? I wouldn't care about the PS3 Japan sales at all if FFXIII wasn't a PS3 exclusive and wasn't on course to totally underperform. Because if the PS3 is this gens "Gamecube" then FFXIII cannot possibly sell more than 1-1.4mil copies total lifetime and even then the attach ratio is very high... That will be extremely disappointing. If FFXIII doesn't break 2mil in Japan then fuck Sony because it will be their fault.

The FF franchise is awesome, main games of course, and it will annoy me terribly if FFXIII fails because of the PS3. FFXII didn't sell to expectations and it will be very bad for the franchise for FFXIII to meet a similar fate...

 

[titiklabingapat]

The Wii doesn't matter. No matter what the hardware sales are, the software sales will never match the combined sales of the PS3/360 combined outside Japan. As a result of this the big 3rd parties in the west will put their best games on the PS3/360 as they are currently doing and Square Enix are proving to be useless for all current gen consoles so far. All their biggest games outside of FFXIII are heading to handhelds.

As as such, does it really matter? I wouldn't care about the PS3 Japan sales at all if FFXIII wasn't a PS3 exclusive and wasn't on course to totally underperform. Because if the PS3 is this gens "Gamecube" then FFXIII cannot possibly sell more than 1-1.4mil copies total lifetime and even then the attach ratio is very high... That will be extremely disappointing. If FFXIII doesn't break 2mil in Japan then fuck Sony because it will be their fault.

The FF franchise is awesome, main games of course, and it will annoy me terribly if FFXIII fails because of the PS3. FFXII didn't sell to expectations and it will be very bad for the franchise for FFXIII to meet a similar fate...

It's alread rivaling the combined 360/PS3 software sales in some regions, and sometimes, in the USA. And the Wii's userbase is still at parity with the combined userbase of the two. Imagine the Wii having double the combined userbase of those two in two to three years.

 

[Sage00]

The Wii doesn't matter. No matter what the hardware sales are, the software sales will never match the combined sales of the PS3/360 combined outside Japan. As a result of this the big 3rd parties in the west will put their best games on the PS3/360 as they are currently doing and Square Enix are proving to be useless for all current gen consoles so far. All their biggest games outside of FFXIII are heading to handhelds.

As as such, does it really matter? I wouldn't care about the PS3 Japan sales at all if FFXIII wasn't a PS3 exclusive and wasn't on course to totally underperform. Because if the PS3 is this gens "Gamecube" then FFXIII cannot possibly sell more than 1-1.4mil copies total lifetime and even then the attach ratio is very high... That will be extremely disappointing. If FFXIII doesn't break 2mil in Japan then fuck Sony because it will be their fault.

The FF franchise is awesome, main games of course, and it will annoy me terribly if FFXIII fails because of the PS3. FFXII didn't sell to expectations and it will be very bad for the franchise for FFXIII to meet a similar fate...

It's hardly Sony's fault alone. It's a combined failure of both SCEJ and all third parties. SCEJ never had to fill out software gaps on PS2 a year into it's lifespin, the third parties were there and they carried the platform. If Square-Enix was hoping to build a userbase for a game which at this point is looking like a certain loss for them, then maybe they shouldn't have made 2 Final Fantasy games and a Dragon Quest game for a competing platform and had zero content for PS3.

 

[apujanata]

I can't think of a single outcome better than dramatic underperformance for Final Fantasy XIII.

And I am willing to bet at least one month ban bet it will happen (underperformance), especially IF it is released in 2008. If it is released in 2010, it may not have dramatic underperformance, but I also don't see it giving PS3 H/W a major bump, since it is too late in the H/W Cycle (almost 4 years since H/W launch).

 

[apujanata]

It's hardly Sony's fault alone. It's a combined failure of both SCEJ and all third parties. SCEJ never had to fill out software gaps on PS2 a year into it's lifespin, the third parties were there and they carried the platform. If Square-Enix was hoping to build a userbase for a game which at this point is looking like a certain loss for them, then maybe they shouldn't have made 2 Final Fantasy games and a Dragon Quest game for a competing platform and had zero content for PS3.

Square Enix have learned to NEVER put their eggs in ONE basket. And didn't people always said that Wii and PS3 are NOT competing directly ? So it shouldn't matter whether SE also release game on Wii or DS or PSP, or even X360.

 

[Sage00]

Square Enix have learned to NEVER put their eggs in ONE basket. And didn't people always said that Wii and PS3 are NOT competing directly ? So it shouldn't matter whether SE also release game on Wii or DS or PSP, or even X360.

Did they learn that? Weren't they the ones to say that they decide the sales of a platform by their support?

And I am willing to bet at least one month ban bet it will happen (underperformance), especially IF it is released in 2008. If it is released in 2010, it may not have dramatic underperformance, but I also don't see it giving PS3 H/W a major bump, since it is too late in the H/W Cycle (almost 4 years since H/W launch).

I'd say it's more likely to be released late 09. Almost mirroring the PSP to FFVII: CC timeframe. A slim PS3 around about then and I don't know.. never say never to a major bump.

 

[_Alkaline_]

The Wii doesn't matter. No matter what the hardware sales are, the software sales will never match the combined sales of the PS3/360 combined outside Japan. As a result of this the big 3rd parties in the west will put their best games on the PS3/360 as they are currently doing and Square Enix are proving to be useless for all current gen consoles so far. All their biggest games outside of FFXIII are heading to handhelds.

As as such, does it really matter? I wouldn't care about the PS3 Japan sales at all if FFXIII wasn't a PS3 exclusive and wasn't on course to totally underperform. Because if the PS3 is this gens "Gamecube" then FFXIII cannot possibly sell more than 1-1.4mil copies total lifetime and even then the attach ratio is very high... That will be extremely disappointing. If FFXIII doesn't break 2mil in Japan then fuck Sony because it will be their fault.

The FF franchise is awesome, main games of course, and it will annoy me terribly if FFXIII fails because of the PS3. FFXII didn't sell to expectations and it will be very bad for the franchise for FFXIII to meet a similar fate...

Ok.