Frankfurter
Member
jimbo said:
According to Nintendo Wii has sold 700k in Europe till the end of 2006.
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Media Create Sales Jan 8 - 14
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According to Nintendo Wii has sold 700k in Europe till the end of 2006.
jj984jj said:
Hell yeah I am
How can I not get the system thats getting No More Heroes????? Also, how can I not buy the system with Nitendo's games? As for Xenosaga, Id get it no matter what system it came on
Avalon said:
:lol :lol :lol I JUST NOTICED THAT ABOUT QUOTING MYSELF
Its true though, 2 million. Namco did expect a lot more alright. A lot more. But with the awesome third game, they have accomplished the mission of delivering one hell of an RPG experience for me
jarrod said:But it utterly tanked in America... I'm not even sure we'll see Yakuza 2 here really.
Yes, only selling about as many copies of TP as the entire PS3 software library combined must be really crushing Nintendo.
Even if Yakuza one tanked, doesnt mean they wouldnt bring two. A lot of games usually tank but end up getting another chance, many many games fall into that situation.
And who said anything about crushing Nintendo?? I was talking about Nintendo's own Wii games crushing one of their other games. And whats with bringing up the PS3?
Son, when you have a system thats more than double the price of another, with less quality titles available for now - and more importantly, appealing to gamers only (unlike Wiis situation to both gamers and non gamers) then yes, you will get less software sales on that machine.
JonathanEx
Member
jimbo said:
Nintendo Press Release said:
*ahem*
It's great to see all the spin-doctors in here making it look like Nintendo has always dominated the industry, while Sony has done nothing over the past decade, despite the fact that they releseased the two most successful systems of all time back-to-back. I guess selling 80+ million more than either competitor last gen means nothing.
Keep up the good work soldiers! Nintendo needs blind fanboys to buy their brain games and mini-game collections! :lol
Keep up the good work soldiers! Nintendo needs blind fanboys to buy their brain games and mini-game collections! :lol
JonathanEx said:
Ok. Great. So the only piece of information that we have about the Wii is that it has shipped and most likely sold 99.9% of all of those 700k units from launch until the press release. No idea what it's doing now. No idea what the 360 did during the same period. And no idea what the 360's LTD is currently in Europe. Yet from that piece of information we can correctly make statements such as those?
You know what this reminds me of? The begining of The Da Vinci Code. Where Tom Hanks is showing a snippet of a larger pictures in front of this large audience and asks everyone to say what they believe. Everyone takes their shots with their guesses, and while their guesses seem VERY likely, when he shows the FULL PICTURE, everyone's guesses turns out to be very wrong.
So to be able to make statements such as those I believe we need to have the answers to ALL 4 of my points.
jimbo said:
Yes but not for random reasons! If Draft was right, then why bother trying to understand your customer, his needs and how you can fulfill them -- basically he's invalidating the very concept of marketing.
I am not saying that Lapsed or Nintendo is right, for what is worth, but I stand by the notion that you _can_ analyse the numbers, the facts, and try to understand why things happened. You may not come out with The Truth but in the end you will come out a little wiser while entertaining yourself, n'est pas?
DeaconKnowledge
Member
jimbo said:
Um, there is sales data for the 360 in Europe, it's just harder to come by.
Most people have the 360 worldwide tracked at around 8 million.
Eteric Rice
Member
The Playstation pushed gaming to an older audience. That much, I can't deny. It shifted everything from wacky games, to more serious games.
But, I get the feeling we're about to go through another "shift" soon. The genres of gaming aren't changing enough. An RPG is an RPG, an FPS is an FPS. Usually just a few new features added.
I think we're going to see a lot of off the wall games this time.
But, I get the feeling we're about to go through another "shift" soon. The genres of gaming aren't changing enough. An RPG is an RPG, an FPS is an FPS. Usually just a few new features added.
I think we're going to see a lot of off the wall games this time.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
jimbo said:
jimbo, you need to learn how to argue.
Eh, it might... SOA is looking towards continued PS2 support anyway. But if the series keeps selling what it has in America, it's gonna be nihon only faster than you can say Sakura Taisen.Fady K said:
Just keeping it all relative... I doubt Nintendo's too disspointed in how Zelda's performing compared to the industry standard.Fady K said:
I'm not comparing total software sales for each machine... just one cushing sales dissapointment of a release up against the other console's total software sales. If we're going to talk about crushing comparisons here, then let's keep it interesting.Fady K said:
Going by the figures so far, they don't actually... they've got everyone else.ralph said:
Mana Knight
Banned
They're still selling and they'll be sold one day, especially if retailers continue to order them.gamergirly said:
It's SoA, they'll release stuff that tanked previously over and over again, like brining Shining Force EXA despite how bad Neo and Tears did.Fady K said:
DeaconKnowledge said:
Could you please tell me how I can find it?
I saw how people are coming up wtith the 8 million figure.
Example 1: MS said at one point in time in an article that the UK represents a certain percentage of the European market. We don't know if MS was being accurate or generalizing, we don't know if that was for that point in time, for a specific time period, and if that percentage is constant or changes, but we can take that percentage along with the UK numbers and get a number for European 360 hardware SALES.
Example 2: Or we can take the world-wide shipped number, minus the ESTIMATED NA shipped number, minus the Japanese SALES number, minus-big estimation coming-the rest of the world shipped number, use a percentage average between shipped and sold from one market, apply it to the European market, and get an estimated SOLD number for Europe.
Example 3: Take the UK is the only place that's selling 360's approach. Use anecdotal evidence from people living in Europe about how their local stores are not selling 360's, use SOFTWARE charts in TWO other territories BESIDES the UK to back up that claim, and estimate some other number that eventually is called dissapointing or poor.
Example 4. Probably the simplest one. Take the 10.4 shipped figure and estimate a number that sounds pretty good like 2 million as the difference between sold and shipped of a system, and go with that.
Is that pretty accurate?
Because it's deffinitely not coming from a tracking company. It's coming from people on here using all kinds of formulas and cross-market percentages.
So let's say, and I'm willing to agree, that that is a close estimate of where the 360 is actually at. Still says nothing about what they are each currently selling. It still doesn't give us a SALES TREND that could let people guesstimate that the trend is going towards the Wii outselling the 360 in Europe.
Where is that part coming from?
PS: And you need to learn how to back up your statements and to keep up with what you argue about. Kind of like yesterday where you said that I didn't make a certain statement, one to which you, yourself, made a counter-point.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Whoa whoa whoa. Are you Wii Sports boxing a strawman Mii now? Millions, no. But if we look at Famitsu numbers for PS2 launch week there's one title at 233K and one at 102K. The other 5 PS2 games in the top 30 sum to 190K. The next week those top games now sell 71K and 45K, with the remaining 5 PS2 titles in the top 30 summing to 72K.TTP said:
LanceStern
Banned
Why do media create threads always break down into arguments?
Very good posts Parl and Lapsed
Very good posts Parl and Lapsed
LanceStern
Banned
And how the hell do people have the 360 at EIGHT MILLION in Europe? That's not even possible it it trakcs < 20k a week in the UK (sony says)
I think everyone knows how stupid you and your arguements are. So stay out of these debates or you'll eat crow later.jimbo said:
FWIW, Microsoft SHIPPED 1.6m X360s by the end of Sep. in Europe. (sell through ~ 1.2m) and then in 3 months they could sell millions upon millions of X360s there, according to our great analyst, jimbo. :lol
Fady K said:Its true though, 2 million. Namco did expect a lot more alright. A lot more. But with the awesome third game, they have accomplished the mission of delivering one hell of an RPG experience for me
Yes, I'm sure pleasing you made it entirely worth it for them. :lol
Poor Monolith though, they are a talented development team. If the games narrative had been more like Baten Kaitos, not only would they have saved a lot of money but a lot of the criticism around the series would have been gone as well.
Eteric Rice
Member
I'm telling you, guys. Atlus is the next Square.
Frankfurter
Member
jimbo said:
The 700k figure that Nintendo gave out is most likely the sold through figure, although it wouldn't make a big difference.
I sort of see your point, but imo we should just try to get the information that we have together and see how accurate of a picture we can draw with it. Otherwise we basically don't a chance to discuss anything European sales related outside of the UK which would suck imo.
For example by locking at the shipments of MS we can definitely make assumptions of European sales. MS shipped 3.6m to NA and 1.7m to Europe till Sept. 30 2006. So the easiest assumption would be to say that the european sales are roughly 50% of the sales in the USA, which would put Europe at arround 2.25m till the end of the year. Of course this figure is wrong and of course the "method" to come to this figure doesn't have anything to do with sciences, but I'm still pretty that it's pretty close to reality.
Second would be to take that leaked figure from Charttrack (unfortunately I don't remember anymore what it was) and guess that the UK is arround 40% of the X360 market. So if the UK figure was sth. like 900k we are again at arround 2.25m.
We'll obviously know a little bit more when MS financial report is out and we see how many units they shipped to Europe till the end of the year, so let's see how that pans out.
Forgotten Ancient
Banned
The Wii is doing excellent relative to their previous generation and considering their supply issues.
The 360 is doing respectably in most regions outside of Japan. Considering their incredibly slow start in Japan, they've "rebounded" a little bit. Still laughable there, but at least they're getting a little traction.
The PS3 is disappointing no matter how you look at it. It's not a reflection of their potential or the power of the system, it's mainly a sign of the improved competition and out-of-range pricing.
Anyone saying anything to the contrary is spinning. It might not stay this way for long, but that's the way it is right now. The PS3 could possibly lower the price considerably in the next year and make a move up the charts. The 360 could lower their price or improve the main system (hdmi, harddrive, hd-dvd) and become more attractive. The Wii fad could fade away once the initial and residual hype wears off. Or, none of these things could happen.
As it stands, I'd be VERY happy if I were Nintendo, pretty pleased if I were Microsoft, and very concerned if I were Sony.
Strictly 360 vs. PS3 - Worldwide might not even go to Sony if Nintendo gets a stranglehold on the Eastern market. I used to think WW for Sony was secured even if they finished second in the US - which I also thought was a forgone conclusion.
The 360 is doing respectably in most regions outside of Japan. Considering their incredibly slow start in Japan, they've "rebounded" a little bit. Still laughable there, but at least they're getting a little traction.
The PS3 is disappointing no matter how you look at it. It's not a reflection of their potential or the power of the system, it's mainly a sign of the improved competition and out-of-range pricing.
Anyone saying anything to the contrary is spinning. It might not stay this way for long, but that's the way it is right now. The PS3 could possibly lower the price considerably in the next year and make a move up the charts. The 360 could lower their price or improve the main system (hdmi, harddrive, hd-dvd) and become more attractive. The Wii fad could fade away once the initial and residual hype wears off. Or, none of these things could happen.
As it stands, I'd be VERY happy if I were Nintendo, pretty pleased if I were Microsoft, and very concerned if I were Sony.
Strictly 360 vs. PS3 - Worldwide might not even go to Sony if Nintendo gets a stranglehold on the Eastern market. I used to think WW for Sony was secured even if they finished second in the US - which I also thought was a forgone conclusion.
starship said:
Starship I think you are one of the few remaining posters on here that still rely on personal insults whenever you have nothing to better to say. Compared to you, I'm pretty safe from eating crow since I don't make predictions based on my trips to the future(aka you saying BD will NOT sell in the west). As a matter of fact, I try to stay away from making any kind of long term selling predictions, because I believe it's near impossible to do so for any period of time longer than a month.
Oh and I never stated the 360 sold millions upon millions in Europe. Quit putting words in my mouth. I'd love for you to show me where I said that though, since you seem to know so much about me.
A tidbit from X360 sales in Europe.
In this interview, Marc Toumelin, Xbox marketing Diretor in France reveal some details.
Europe represents 30% of Xbox360 WW market. US represents 60% and 10% Asia (i think this figures include Australia).
According to Marc Toumelin, France represents 20% of X360 market in Europe, with 300k sold until December, and comes in second place, behind UK. In 2006, X360 sold around 950k in UK (please, someone could provide the link ? I miss it), with this is legit suppose UK represents nearly 60% of X360 market in Europe.
Well, if both France and UK represent nearly 80% of X360 market in Europe, and in UK X360 sold around 950k and in France 300k (maybe 350 ~ 380k at year end) we have sufficient data to do guesses about X360 performance in Europe.
In this interview, Marc Toumelin, Xbox marketing Diretor in France reveal some details.
Europe represents 30% of Xbox360 WW market. US represents 60% and 10% Asia (i think this figures include Australia).
According to Marc Toumelin, France represents 20% of X360 market in Europe, with 300k sold until December, and comes in second place, behind UK. In 2006, X360 sold around 950k in UK (please, someone could provide the link ? I miss it), with this is legit suppose UK represents nearly 60% of X360 market in Europe.
Well, if both France and UK represent nearly 80% of X360 market in Europe, and in UK X360 sold around 950k and in France 300k (maybe 350 ~ 380k at year end) we have sufficient data to do guesses about X360 performance in Europe.
Yup, that's a pretty good summary of all the arguments. We've had some data points, such as sell-throughs and total sales percentages, sprinkled throughout the year. Not too much recently, and nothing concrete regarding all territories.jimbo said:
I'm still trying to figure out why they're jumping on you. I suppose questioning the presumptions and estimates out there makes you some kind of heretic, but there is a distinct lack of hard data. The rough estimates is all we have, and it does irk me as well that people spout them as fact. To be fair, Microsoft could really help here and mention sell-through once in a while.jimbo said:
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
Kilrogg said:I don't think he's denying competition. He says that console wars are over (for now at least). The wars are now to happen between business strategies. That's what I gather from my intense reading of his posts, at any rate.
Oh and btw, hello GAF, been reading the forum for a while now, but I finally managed to register. I'm sure you're glad to welcome a new French junior member
Welcome.
Anyway, there is still a war. The momentum will determine millions, perhaps tens of millions of console sales. How this momentum shifts to gaming machines will depend on initial supply, media hype (outside of the gaming media, which I imagine 90% of gamers don't even pay attention to), and its software.
A lot of burned N64 fans ran to the PlayStation and bought a PlayStation 2. If it was N64 vs. Saturn, its likely that the N64 owner would just keep owning the N64. Since there were greener pastures, the owner bailed.
Owning multiple consoles is important but this generation is going to cost a lot more. That doesn't mean people will only stick with one but if someone wants to get a second console, it most likely has to have the biggest bang for its buck. If people keep reading about how PS3 is not the best, then they will probably not get it, especially if its head and shoulders more expensive than 360 and Wii.
Consumers might like nice software but they want to be able to buy games and own one without having to spend a huge amount of money. This is the biggest strengths of the NDS and why PS2 continues to do well.
Sony is going to pay dearly for its price point and trying to push gamers towards HD. Its not like PS2 where you can buy $15 DVDs. You need an HDTV and $20-30 BRDs.
That's the kind of extrapolation he's talking about. The 300k sold was at some undertermined point (I assume through November), with the goal being to hit 500k at the end of December. How close did they come? Is your 350k estimate right, or is it a lot higher? Is Europe 30% exactly, or 34% and he's just rounding? Is France actually 17% and he's just rounding? There's enough variables there to change the end results quite a bit. We can get a general feel, but there's enough variability to swing the estimates by hundreds of thousands.Fio Maravilha said:
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Razoric said:
wii will become the next gen when the true next gen consoles become the neanderthals of video game console history!
You didn't predict anything except huge turn around for 360 in Japan and selling > 10k in the next months. :loljimbo said:
And you disagree with everyone who guesstimate X360 sales in Europe which is in the range of 2-2.5m for sure. You and other xbots want it to be higher so you always are in denial.
We know its sales in the UK (890k) and have a good estimate of Uk's market share in Europe for Xbox brand. so we can come up with good estimates which is close to reality. No one can say what is the exact figure but we can say what is the range.
Um, my entire point was MS isn't talking sell-through, only shipped. Which is the problem. It looks like some regional managers have mentioned sell-through (like in France), but that's it. And I'm not arguing that the estimates that have been tossed out are wrong, or even low. Just don't state them as fact, since they are afterall....just estimates. Until Microsoft comes out and says, "here's what we've actually sold through..." this won't be settled. I don't see them doing that anytime soon.starship said:
Back to those Japanese sales....
360 number is pretty bad. I'm curious if it will drop down to the 1-2k range it was at until November. I think it might hang out in the ~5k range for a while. Still deadly-poor, but hey it's progress. :lol