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[VerTiGo]

So what do we have to say about Nintendo's efforts to publish certain core games on the Wii? For example, we have Xenoblade which was recently released. It's a huge effort from the developer (owned by Nintendo), with a development span of about 3 years. It is a huge RPG, with massive scale and tons of content. The game also has great reviews and word of mouth.

Yet it sells less than half of what White Knight Chronicles achieved on the PS3, despite the horrible reviews that got. Both are first party titles. Both are RPGs. Both are developed by RPG developers which is known by the core target audience.

Clearly this shows a problem with the Wii base being receptive to a first party title, and it also shows that Nintendo is indeed interested in getting an audience on their system for this genre, but has basically failed. Does the blame then lie with third parties alone? Should Nintendo be blaming third parties for not helping to build a stronger base for RPGs?

Obviously if the platform holder is interested in the genre, and they try to release a major effort on their platform, when it under-performs it is also the blame of the first party - they have failed to attract that audience to their system.

I used to think that Nintendo could help the market for core gaming experiences for third party developers but that's where they themselves dropped the ball. Nintendo's marketing of core games for the Wii, those being their own published games, has been non-existent, outside "Mario" branded software and the "Wii" line of casual games. Core experiences like Takt of Magic, for instance, despite being a solid title, have gone fairly unnoticed by the consumer, which in return has hurt the overall health of core gaming on the Wii. Nintendo could be to blame, but overall, they are not solely responsible for the sucess or failure of third party efforts. There's plenty of gray area.

Even in Xenoblade's case, however, the sales of the game has been fairly strong in comparison to either Tales of Symphonia: DotNW and Tales of Graces. As far as RPGs go on the platform, its pretty much surpassed my expectations. Additionally, with good word of mouth and critical acclaime, Xenoblade may have just improved the environment for similar upcoming games as The Last Story, Earth Seeker and ultimately Dragon Quest X. Of course, Dragon Quest X has a great shot at being a hugely succesful title, and not just because two lesser DQ games have been released on the platform, but because of the overall strength of the brand (which everyone knows of course). Xenoblade's sales in comparison to White Knight Chronicles has much to do with where the consumer for those kind of games is, and in comparison the PS3 should have a higher percentage of RPG players.

Nintendo could've easily created a better market for core gamers if they put more time and effort to market games like Metroid Prime 3, Takt of Magic, Punchout!, ExciteBots, etc... but they basically just threw those games out there with little exposure. However, they have not. And for games like Murumasa and No More Heroes 2, which I both adore, their lackluster retail sales cannot be blamed on Nintendo. Unfortunately, far more exposure would be needed to reach out to consumers, but with the scale and budgets behind both these games, I can't see that much money being thrown into dangerous waters on the platform.

Epic Mickey however I see being a huge success on the Wii. Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros, etc... have already created a great environment for that type of game on the platform. Hell, why else would we still see better Sonic support on the Wii if a healthy market wasn't available for those games.

 

[Pureauthor]

In Media Create threads, we discuss the Japanese market. Hence we use Japanese sales. If we discuss Resident Evil, it would be the franchise's performance in Japan. I don't see how Resident Evil 4 shipping 1 million units on the Wii worldwide, changes the fact that it sold 135k in Japan.

But in previous MCreate threads we've discussed the games market as a whole. In fact Dragona basically okayed the MC threads as a general sales discussion thread.

Granted both sides should make their stance clear when arguing about things, but MCreate has never been 'Japan sales and Japan sales ONLY'.

 

[duckroll]

Even in Xenoblade's case, however, the sales of the game has been fairly strong in comparison to either Tales of Symphonia: DotNW and Tales of Graces.

How so? It has sold worse than both of those titles.

 

[Busaiku]

The one thing I don't understand is the complete lack of anything for the DS in 2011.
Yes 3DS is coming, but I don't think there's a single title in store for 2011.

PS2 is still getting new titles (multiplatform, but still).
This seems so weird to me.

 

[VerTiGo]

But what's the point of building an audience on the Wii when there's three different platforms in the market that will already do the job just fine?

Oh, I don't disagree with that in any form. But, a single platform should pretty much cater to a wide variety of game players. Not everyone is a multi-console owner, nor should they have to be. Also, with the rising cost of game development in this troubled economy, where everything seems to be pretty high risk, the Wii should've been a very seductive platform for smaller studios. I loved seeing games like Muramasa on the Wii, truly hardcore games with niche appeal, which could've been an even bigger financial disaster with the higher development costs of HD game development.

Muramasa, unfortunately, came a bit too early in the Wii's life cycle. It would've probably been better off at around this time, with the glorius rebirth of 2D on the Wii. After the release of Metroid Other M, Donkey Kong and Kirby... something like Muramasa may have had a better chance. Same goes for the Klonoa remake. Then again, that's because Nintendo has helped the market of that kind of game recently.

 

[Chris1964]

The one thing I don't understand is the complete lack of anything for the DS in 2011.
Yes 3DS is coming, but I don't think there's a single title in store for 2011.

PS2 is still getting new titles (multiplatform, but still).
This seems so weird to me.

DS will keep getting support, the big titles are minimazed.

 

[Vic]

The one thing I don't understand is the complete lack of anything for the DS in 2011.
Yes 3DS is coming, but I don't think there's a single title in store for 2011.

PS2 is still getting new titles (multiplatform, but still).
This seems so weird to me.

In general, DS & PSP games are announced very closely to their launch date.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

The one thing I don't understand is the complete lack of anything for the DS in 2011.
Yes 3DS is coming, but I don't think there's a single title in store for 2011.

Considering that 3DS might launch as early as this year there really would be no point. If it were Dragon Quest IX it might get away with it but anything else is going to be swept away. Now would be the time to move projects onto the 3DS.

What titles are coming to the PSP in 2011, for that matter?

 

[VerTiGo]

How so? It has sold worse than both of those titles.

Aren't we looking at somewhere around 150,000 units sold for Xenoblade? For a new IP on the Wii with little marketing it's not that horrible. Then again, I'm just praying that's enough to justify localization of the game overseas.

 

[Vic]

Oh, I don't disagree with that in any form. But, a single platform should pretty much cater to a wide variety of game players. Not everyone is a multi-console owner, nor should they have to be. Also, with the rising cost of game development in this troubled economy, where everything seems to be pretty high risk, the Wii should've been a very seductive platform for smaller studios. I loved seeing games like Muramasa on the Wii, truly hardcore games with niche appeal, which could've been an even bigger financial disaster with the higher development costs of HD game development.

Muramasa, unfortunately, came a bit too early in the Wii's life cycle. It would've probably been better off at around this time, with the glorius rebirth of 2D on the Wii. After the release of Metroid Other M, Donkey Kong and Kirby... something like Muramasa may have had a better chance. Same goes for the Klonoa remake. Then again, that's because Nintendo has helped the market of that kind of game recently.

Handhelds.

 

[Pureauthor]

Considering that 3DS might launch as early as this year there really would be no point. If it were Dragon Quest IX it might get away with it but anything else is going to be swept away. Now would be the time to move projects onto the 3DS.

Yeah, but usually even in the twilight of the system we still have plenty of devs finishing up their projects - especially when what looks to be the next market leader is going to be backwards compatible with it.

The completel lack of 2011 titles is odd.

 

[Vic]

Considering that 3DS might launch as early as this year there really would be no point. If it were Dragon Quest IX it might get away with it but anything else is going to be swept away. Now would be the time to move projects onto the 3DS.

What titles are coming to the PSP in 2011, for that matter?

White Knight Chronicles is scheduled for a 2011 released.

 

[Chris1964]

Considering that 3DS might launch as early as this year there really would be no point. If it were Dragon Quest IX it might get away with it but anything else is going to be swept away. Now would be the time to move projects onto the 3DS.

What titles are coming to the PSP in 2011, for that matter?

If we wanna talk seriously about PSP third party support I doubt we will see another big game on it after 3DS comes out, except maybe Monster Hunter Portable 3G. E3 announcements and the disappearing of resident Evil Portable showed that. It will keep getting titles that appeal (99%) to Japanese market.

 

[VerTiGo]

Handhelds.

What does that even mean?

I prefer playing games on a TV.

 

[Busaiku]

Considering that 3DS might launch as early as this year there really would be no point. If it were Dragon Quest IX it might get away with it but anything else is going to be swept away. Now would be the time to move projects onto the 3DS.

Not everyone has to move over their projects to the successor system, especially when they can still work on one of the most viable platforms.
Again, PS2 was still getting support years after PS3/Wii.

But yeah, I guess it could be that since all the big games are indeed moving over to 3DS, the smaller games which will probably live on will be announced closer to their release.
But still the lack of anything is very odd.

 

[duckroll]

PSP titles likely to be released in 2011:

- The 3rd Birthday
- Final Fantasy Agito XIII
- White Knight Chronicles Portable
- Starry Sky ~In Winter~ Portable
- Toaru Majutsu no Index

 

[Beth Cyra]

If we wanna talk seriously about PSP third party support I doubt we will see another big game on it after 3DS comes out, except maybe Monster Hunter Portable 3G. E3 announcements and the disappearing of resident Evil Portable showed that. It will keep getting titles that appeal (99%) to Japanese market.

Do you think we will see Agito XIII before 3DS launches in Japan?

Not saying you are wrong, but I do think it is a title that would count as Large and, could still launch afterwords if Square ends up delaying it which I still think is very possible.

 

[Chris1964]

PSP titles likely to be released in 2011:

- The 3rd Birthday
- Final Fantasy Agito XIII
- White Knight Chronicles Portable
- Starry Sky ~In Winter~ Portable
- Toaru Majutsu no Index

Isn't this 2010?

Do you think we will see Agito XIII before 3DS launches in Japan?

Not saying you are wrong, but I do think it is a title that would count as Large and will could still launch afterwords if Square ends up delaying it which I still think is very possible.

I'm talking about new titles. Agito was announced centuries ago.

 

[duckroll]

Do you think we will see Agito XIII before 3DS launches in Japan?

Not saying you are wrong, but I do think it is a title that would count as Large and will could still launch afterwords if Square ends up delaying it which I still think is very possible.

Agito XIII is not coming out this year, it's not coming out in the next 6 months. The 3DS will be out by this year. He's talking about announcements of more big games, and he's right. There won't be any more for the PSP. There might be a Peace Walker expansion of some sort at best to cater to the Japanese support of the title. I don't see anything else happening. Kingdom Hearts 3D is proof that even Nomura has decided it is time to move on.

Isn't this 2010?

It's listed as "This Winter" for Japan, without a year. I suspect it'll be early 2011, like BbS was early this year. It'll make the fiscal year, but not the calendar year.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Agito XIII is not coming out this year, it's not coming out in the next 6 months. The 3DS will be out by this year. He's talking about announcements of more big games, and he's right. There won't be any more for the PSP. There might be a Peace Walker expansion of some sort at best to cater to the Japanese support of the title. I don't see anything else happening. Kingdom Hearts 3D is proof that even Nomura has decided it is time to move on.




It's listed as "This Winter" for Japan, without a year. I suspect it'll be early 2011, like BbS was early this year. It'll make the fiscal year, but not the calendar year.

Thanks for clearing that up, I read the post wrong.

 

[Vic]

What does that even mean?

I prefer playing games on a TV.

You're doing a faulty analyst of the Japanese market by omitting the handhelds, which have not only produced far better financially than their console counterparts this generation, they've also started to steal mainline/high profile games from the home consoles which is unprecedented.

And an advice to you my friend: if you like Japanese games, you better get used to play on an handheld as soon as possible.

 

[duckroll]

I for one, will not be surprised if Agito ends up being the first major multiplatform portable game on 3DS/PSP. It might or might not happen simultaneously, but I feel that considering the heavy investment they have put into Agito all these years, they simply cannot afford to have it as a PSP exclusive when the PSP market is completely dead outside of Japan. The 3DS being up to spec with the PSP now could mean more multiplatform games in the future too. That imo, is the only chance the PSP has for continued survival.

 

[Onion_Relish]

This Thread

 

[VerTiGo]

You're doing a faulty analyst of the Japanese market by omitting the handhelds, which have not only produced far better financially than their console counterparts this generation, they've also started to steal mainline/high profile games from the home consoles which is unprecedented.

And an advice to you my friend: if you like Japanese games, you better get used to play on an handheld as soon as possible.

I have the games I want on home consoles. I wasn't referring to handhelds but just some observations of the Wii software market. I already know what you're saying.

 

[duckroll]

Oh I just remembered a PSP title which could be 2011. Little Battlers from Level 5. Now, that's another candidate for 3DS multiplatform release...

 

[Man God]

Only unannounced DS title that can be safely guessed at for 2011- Pokemon Grey. :lol

 

[Beth Cyra]

Only unannounced DS title that can be safely guessed at for 2011- Pokemon Grey. :lol

Is that really safe? Couldn't they take an make the upgrade a real upgrade with graphics and stick it on 3DS?

 

[Chris1964]

Only unannounced DS title that can be safely guessed at for 2011- Pokemon Grey. :lol

This will be like Pokemon Crystal, so 3DS. 2012 release.

 

[Man God]

Is that really safe? Couldn't they take an make the upgrade a real upgrade with graphics and stick it on 3DS?

Let's look at the precedents.

Pokemon Yellow- GBC enhanced.

Pokemon Crystal- GBC only.

Pokemon Emerald- Same as the other two titles, released months after DS is launched.

Pokemon Black/White= Have DSi only bits. I fully expect that Grey might have some sort of 3DS enhancements, but I really doubt the cart would be 3DS only. Too many lost sales.

 

[duckroll]

If it has any 3DS enhancements it will be 3DS-only. The 3DS is not an upgrade of the DS, it's a brand new system. It doesn't even use the same media as the DS/DSi. There aren't any DS enhanced GBA games for example.

 

[Chris1964]

Pokemon Black/White= Have DSi only bits. I fully expect that Grey might have some sort of 3DS enhancements, but I really doubt the cart would be 3DS only. Too many lost sales.

Nintendo will want to sell 3DS in 2012 and the userbase will be big enough to support Pokemon Grey alone. I wouldn't rule out a 3DS only release.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Only unannounced DS title that can be safely guessed at for 2011- Pokemon Grey. :lol

What are they going to do when they run out of precious stones and colors?

Nintendo will want to sell 3DS in 2012 and the userbase will be big enough to support Pokemon Grey alone. I wouldn't rule out a 3DS only release.

That would be kind of unprecedented, wouldn't it? I don't know if Nintendo would want to fracture the users across generations like that.

 

[cvxfreak]

Don't forget Pokemon RagingRuby and SuperiorSapphire in 2012! :lol

 

[duckroll]

What are they going to do when they run out of precious stones and colors?

Pokemon 2015 Summer/Winter Editions. :lol

 

[wizword]

Cogmnet is awesome poll. It is super accurate and basically tells the story a couple days ahead. It really is awesome. Don't add 3 0s but it does give a rough area where games performed. Anyway I still don't understand why 3rd party developers don't move all their games to ps3 (which has already happened) besides hndheld. The fact that all the games not only cost more but sell more kind of gives me a hunch that all 3rd party games besides dq10 at this point should be going to plystation 3 on consoles.

 

[Man God]

What are they going to do when they run out of precious stones and colors?

Periodic Table of Elements

That would be kind of unprecedented, wouldn't it? I don't know if Nintendo would want to fracture the users across generations like that.

Yep, unless you count GBC as a brand new system with Crystal. Which by the way is the worst selling of the 3rd games overall.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Maybe, but RE5 was still announced for PS3 years ago. Fans were already expecting the flagship title in the series, and whatever followed to be there. RE4 and UC were like nice diversions.

I floated the idea of a hypothetical RE4.5

Even a game that reused a bunch of assets a la IGAvania could have done well enough to be worth it in the runup to RE5.

But yeah, hypotheticals and all that.

 

[duckroll]

I floated the idea of a hypothetical RE4.5

Even a game that reused a bunch of assets a la IGAvania could have done well enough to be worth it in the runup to RE5.

But yeah, hypotheticals and all that.

I think the question really is: who would make it. If we're on the subject of hypotheticals, then there is still the possibility that a RE4.5 would have done more harm than good if it was bungled. Look at Dead Rising Wii.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I think the question really is: who would make it. If we're on the subject of hypotheticals, then there is still the possibility that a RE4.5 would have done more harm than good if it was bungled. Look at Dead Rising Wii.

Well we know who would of done it. The UC team, UC was a RE4 type game until they decided to change it.

But Iwho knows how it woud've of done compared to how it did if it was indeed an Re4 type game.

 

[slaughterking]

This week probably has 2 of the biggest franchise growth explosions in recent memory.

If we count our very own Media Create threads as a franchise it would be 3! :lol It has been a long time since I woke up to a 3 page MC thread. That's like super huge these days.

 

[duckroll]

Maybe they changed it because Cavia was sucking balls at making an actual RE game.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I think the question really is: who would make it. If we're on the subject of hypotheticals, then there is still the possibility that a RE4.5 would have done more harm than good if it was bungled. Look at Dead Rising Wii.

A port-down isn't really comparable to a new game. Also, the team that made UC could have been expanded and developed 4.5 instead using some of the same assets that went into4.

Not that it really matters now. That isn't the way it went down.

 

[Vic]

I have the games I want on home consoles. I wasn't referring to handhelds but just some observations of the Wii software market. I already know what you're saying.

All the attractive points you've specified in your previous post just pointed to the handhelds. That's all I wanted to explain.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Maybe they changed it because Cavia was sucking balls at making an actual RE game.

Very well could of been, I was just pointing out that there was a team that could of done it.

Also given as you said they let Dead Rising Wii out the door maybe quality wasn't an issue.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Recap of third party titles that came out in last 17 weeks on DS and PSP (only new titles in top 10).

This week:

2. / 00. [PSP] Hatsune Miku: Project Diva 2 (Sega) - 241.000 / NEW
04. / 00. [NDS] Kamen Rider Battle: Ganbaride Card Battle Taisen (Bandai Namco) - 64.000 / NEW
06. / 00. [NDS] Metal Max 3 (Kadokawa Shoten) - 47.000 / NEW
08. / 00. [PSP] Ys Vs. Sora no Kiseki: Alternative Saga (Nihon Falcom) - 30.000 / NE

Last week:

02. / 00. [PSP] Fate/Extra (Marvelous Entertainment) - 72.170 / NEW
10. / 00. [NDS] Katekyoo Hitman Reborn! DS Flame Rumble XX: Kessen! Real 6 Chouka (Takara Tomy) - 19.540 / NEW

2 weeks ago:

05. / 00. [PSP] Last Ranker (Capcom) - 60.757 / NEW
06. / 00. [PSP] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2010 (Konami) - 51.778 / NEW
10. / 00. [PSP] Momotaro Railway Tag Match: Friendship - Cooperation - Winning Volume! (Hudson) - 18.614 / NEW

3 weeks ago:

04. / 00. [NDS] Harvest Moon: Twin Villages (Marvelous Entertainment) - 63.610 / NEW

4 weeks ago:

01. / 00. [NDS] Inazuma Eleven 3: World Challenge!! Spark / Bomber (Level 5) - 505.161 / NEW
02. / 00. [NDS] Taiko Drum Master DS: Dororon! Battle With the Ghouls!! (Bandai Namco) - 69.767 / NEW
05. / 00. [NDS] Digimon Story: Lost Evolution (Bandai Namco) - 34.409 / NEW

5 weeks ago:

02. / 00. [NDS] Love Plus + (Konami) - 84.364 / NEW
04. / 00. [NDS] Tokimeki Memorial: Girl's Side 3rd Story (Konami) - 52.245 / NEW
06. / 00. [PSP] Hatsune Miku: Project Diva [Dekkai Ohaidoku-han / Ohaidoku-han] (Sega) - 28.938 / NEW
08. / 00. [PSP] Starry Sky: In Spring - PSP Edition (Asgard) - 22.423 / NEW

6 weeks ago:

02. / 00. [NDS] Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective (Capcom) - 23.977 / NEW
06. / 00. [NDS] Tamagotchi no Pichi Pichi Omisecchi (Bandai Namco) - 17.401 / NEW

7 weeks ago:

04. / 00. [NDS] Mega Man Zero Collection (Capcom) - 21.736 / NEW

8 weeks ago:

02. / 00. [PSP] Fairy Tail: Portable Guild (Konami) - 34.971 / NEW
06. / 00. [PSP] Hisshou Pachinko Pachislot Kouryaku Series Portable Vol. 1: CR Neon Genesis Evangelion - Tamashii no Kiseki (D3 Publisher) - 14.521 / NEW

9 weeks ago:

02. / 00. [NDS] Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Masou Kishin - The Lord of Elemental (Bandai Namco) - 80.764 / NEW
03. / 00. [NDS] Let's Make a Pro Soccer Club! DS World Challenge 2010 (Sega) - 50.206 / NEW
04. / 00. [NDS] Medarot DS: Kabuto / Kuwagata (Rocket Company) - 50.164 / NEW

10 weeks ago:

06. / 00. [PSP] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Challenge of the Blue Samurai (Konami) - 21.118 / NEW
07. / 00. [PSP] Fullmetal Alchemist: To the Promised Day (Bandai Namco) - 20.675 / NEW

11 weeks ago:

05. / 00. [PSP] Hakuouki: Yuugi Roku (Idea Factory) - 15.569 / NEW

12 weeks ago:

-

13 weeks ago

01. / 00. [NDS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 (Square Enix) - 623.643 / NEW
02. / 00. [PSP] Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker (Konami) - 434.366 / NEW
08. / 00. [NDS] Katekyoo Hitman Reborn! DS Fate of Heat III - Yuki no Shugosha Raishuu! (Takara Tomy) - 24.050 / NEW

14 weeks ago:

03. / 00. [PSP] Tokyo Mono Harashi: Karasu no Mori Gakuen Kitan (Atlus Co.) - 21.953 / NEW
05. / 00. [PSP] Ys: Oath of Felghana (Falcom) - 16.167 / NEW

15 weeks ago:

-

16 weeks ago:

-

 

[cvxfreak]

Maybe they changed it because Cavia was sucking balls at making an actual RE game.

I doubt it was Cavia's fault. If anything, DSC proved that they could make environments that were thematically similar to what we saw in RE5. It's all the damn director and producer's fault. :lol

 

[duckroll]

I doubt it was Cavia's fault. If anything, DSC proved that they could make environments that were thematically similar to what we saw in RE5. It's all the damn director and producer's fault. :lol

Graphics = gameplay???

 

[cvxfreak]

Graphics = gameplay???

Yeah, this wouldn't have been a problem. Cavia even made Dead Aim a few years ago, which had exploration elements that were the same as the traditional RE games. Umbrella Chronicles was the result of Capcom being very curious about the Wiimote and trying to cash in on casual Wii games rather than Cavia's inability to make an RE4-like game (why would this be, anyway?). Having a lightgun RE shooter allows Wii casuals to have an RE-style cinematic experience and story, but without the complexity of progression the series is known for.

Not saying Cavia would have done as good a job, but they could have made it if they were told by Capcom to do so. Even Tose succeeded, sort of. :lol

 

[AniHawk]

Recap of third party titles that came out in last 17 weeks on DS and PSP (only new titles in top 10).

Oh shit, I forgot to buy Zero Collection

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I love the excuses threads.