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Media Create Sales: Nov 2-8, 2009
- Thread starter donny2112
- Start date
Souldriver said:
I disagree with your point of view that the Wii can't do better but I do agree that if the Wii would fail it would be a really big failure on Nintendo's part. The potential to make the Wii as big as the DS was there and it shouldn't have died down like it did.
I still believe that Nintendo can make a big hit software title that can turn the tide. They're good at that sort of thing.
Souldriver
Member
Come on, it's not hard to understand. What I think could happen (the numbers are just examplesChris1964 said:
):Current support:
- Wii: 50%
- PS3: 50%
Future support if things remain this way:
- Wii: 20%
- PS3: 80%
Sure, +1 for one doesn't necessarily mean -1 for the other, but the overal relation between both exists.
Souldriver said:
Agree
Souldriver said:
I don't know about that. The few franchises that the Wii currently has (Monster Hunter, Tales shared with everyone else, Samurai Warriors, Biohazard Chronicles series) seem likely to stay on the platform if they sell well. Let me put it to you this way- the determining factor in whether the Wii continues to get more Samurai Warriors is how SW3 actually sells, not in who wins the console race next year.
To me an interesting question is what happens to DQX..but the only question there is whether it goes back to the DS.
Souldriver
Member
Yes, cause that's what I'm saying. I just couldn't find the right words.duckroll said:
Souldriver said:Come on, it's not hard to understand. What I think could happen (the numbers are just examples
Current support:
- Wii: 50%
- PS3: 50%
Future support if things remain this way:
- Wii: 20%
- PS3: 80%
Sure, +1 for one doesn't necessarily mean -1 for the other, but the overal relation between both exists.
But those numbers are just wrong anyways. I'd argue its much closer to 20/80 than it is to 50/50. I mean, I can see it going from 30/70 to 25/75, but who cares?
And the third party support you are talking about pales in comparison to the handhelds anyways. We're debating over what exactly?
Edit- a year ago I had a different opinion. DQX, ToG and SW3 had just been announced and PS3's 2009 looked pretty barren. However, 2009 has seen almost nothing of note third party announcement wise.
Souldriver said:
Well I'm struggling to see what you are saying. Are you saying third party support is going to go from bad to really bad? That PS3 support is going to go from mediocre to a bit less mediocre?
Is this some kind of joke? This is the third party support today:Souldriver said:Come on, it's not hard to understand. What I think could happen (the numbers are just examples
Current support:
- Wii: 50%
- PS3: 50%
Future support if things remain this way:
- Wii: 20%
- PS3: 80%
Sure, +1 for one doesn't necessarily mean -1 for the other, but the overal relation between both exists.
- Wii: 20%
- PS3: 80%
But I guess if the split goes
- Wii: 15%
- PS3: 85%
there will be a big difference.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Yaweee said:
Whoo a Fire Emblem I'd actually buy!
jeremy1456
Junior Member
duckroll said:
That would be the worst thing that could ever happen to the PS3's third party support.
Developers apparently can't compete with Nintendo on their own platform - if they moved to the PS3 then they wouldn't be able to compete there!
Souldriver
Member
schuelma said:
I specifically said the numbers where fictional and just used as an example.Chris1964 said:
Basically. And continuing this trail of thoughts, I think if a trend like this continues, the Wii could die prematurely, and the PS3 could become this gen's leader* after all.schuelma said:
*for the remainder of this generation of course. I'm not saying it'll dwarf the Wii's LTD. This generation doesn't have a clear cut beginning and ending anyway, since I believe the PS3slim+wand and 360+natal are some sort of pseudo-next gen to extend the life time of current consoles, and that Nintendo will come with a Wii HD before Sony and MS announce a X720 or PS4.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Souldriver said:Come on, it's not hard to understand. What I think could happen (the numbers are just examples
Current support:
- Wii: 50%
- PS3: 50%
Future support if things remain this way:
- Wii: 20%
- PS3: 80%
Sure, +1 for one doesn't necessarily mean -1 for the other, but the overal relation between both exists.
Uh, your future is already the present has been that way since 2006.
Souldriver said:
Err..but why use fictional numbers as an example if they aren't correct numbers?
Souldriver said:
Ok, I thought that was what you were getting at. And this is based on third party support lessening more than it already has? I firmly disagree- maybe in 2007 and even last year heavy third party support could have guaranteed a healthy trajectory for the Wii in Japan. Now, as it was in the beginning, the Wii will fail or succeed on the basis of its first party software.
And there is no way PS3 will come close to Wii's LTD, and you can quote me on that one for years and years.
duckroll said:
count Rio's fans this time
well , they will re-release RGG3 again ( before FFXIII iirc ) so I guess they know these are few of the series fans didn't jump to PS3 before the price cut.
duckroll said:
EoE is not a Mistwalker game , it will do fine.
duckroll said:
to be fair , it's always top of the world or the bottom of Hell in sales age threads , in MC-threads until few months ago it was like Sony will go to sell candy or something.
actually SEGA went 3rd party as a trap so Sony and Nintendo copy it ( as always ) and go 3rd party too , then SEGA can release the DreamDrive with Ristar 2 and Shenmue 3
Souldriver
Member
And it's sad that it'll stay that way. I think Nintendo got a free pass the past 2 years. The Wii did incredibly well no matter what. During that time Nintendo should've lobbied/payed more to make sure third parties jumped in. But it didn't happen. It's Nintendo's and third party's fault. Now the PS3 is gaining ground, things won't get better.schuelma said:
Fine. If you want me to make my opinion more vague to prevent this from becoming a discussion about statistics that don't exist either way and are mainly based on personal opinion anyways, I'll rephrase it like this: the more the PS3 gains, the less third party developers will see the opportunity/need to make games for the Wii, even though their current support is already horrible at this point too. You can disagree with that, off course. It's my opinion.schuelma said:
Edit:
What have I done :loldyls said:
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Chris1964 said:
Well it's fair to assume that Japanese developers and publishers are going to be looking at worldwide sales figures too.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
schuelma said:
He's going to say Monster Hunter, I just know it.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
schuelma said:
I mean really. PS3 already has FFXIII and the Wii has Crystal Bearers. That, right there, tells you how the priorities in Japan played out from the beginning.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
jay said:
Example are all well and fine then they actually fit the data. Really, Wii Third Party support couldn't get any worse, other than losing Monster Hunter. But even the GameCube had RE4 (for awhile).
Souldriver said:
If you are talking about Japan Wii is on the downhill for more than year, you don't seem to know the situation. And certainly it didn't come to that position because of Sony but because mainly of Nintendo itself.
If you are talking about the rest of the world, PS3 is not gaining ground, where did you see that? It's losing ground with slower rate.
I don't think in this situation it's as informative to talk about specific franchises vs developers, maybe.
I think there are very likely some smaller Japanese developers who have chosen to or been forced to eschew the PS3 because of the publishing environment on the platform in Japan. If PS3 continues to do well there I think the publishing environment will obviously also improve, and you'll see some devs come on board who otherwise mightn't have, who otherwise might have made a game for another cheaper and/or more popular platform.
For example I remember some developer - might have been Marvelous? - who expressed interest in supporting PS3 but they mentioned that the publishing environment on PS3 in Japan hadn't been very accomodating to date, but they saw signs of that improving so they would consider hopping on board. An improvement in PS3's ongoing sales in Japan could make differences like that, even if that's not considered drastic. Nor does it necessarily have to be at the expense of the Wii either btw.
I think there are very likely some smaller Japanese developers who have chosen to or been forced to eschew the PS3 because of the publishing environment on the platform in Japan. If PS3 continues to do well there I think the publishing environment will obviously also improve, and you'll see some devs come on board who otherwise mightn't have, who otherwise might have made a game for another cheaper and/or more popular platform.
For example I remember some developer - might have been Marvelous? - who expressed interest in supporting PS3 but they mentioned that the publishing environment on PS3 in Japan hadn't been very accomodating to date, but they saw signs of that improving so they would consider hopping on board. An improvement in PS3's ongoing sales in Japan could make differences like that, even if that's not considered drastic. Nor does it necessarily have to be at the expense of the Wii either btw.
gofreak said:
I can agree with that, and I think I said that could be one little shift. Of course, for those type of games the portables are far better choices than the PS3 and I really don't think Marvelous has any better chance at succeeding on the PS3 as it did on the Wii.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
duckroll said:
To DS, not PS3.
Dragona Akehi said:
An example of data that fits the data is data and not an example. I don't necessarily agree with him but jumping on something clearly marked as an example with "lol ur wrong" seemed silly. If the problem was that his examples didn't even convey the general situation correctly then mentioning this seems like it would be more valuable than taking his examples as literal.
Since I know the question was eating at you, I will now explain the problem of using analogies on the internet. They are meant to show parallels between ideas or situations yet any human online only understands them as direct comparisons equating things.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Dragona Akehi said:
So do you have information regarding this, or is it a hypothesis?
Dragona Akehi
Retired
jay said:
You can't tell a terminal cancer patient that someone with their condition is like a lacerated hand instead of a pricked finger.
jeremy1456 said:
This is entirely my conjecture, if it was actually happening, I would be clear about that.
The only series that I see promised to the Wii and not the PS3 currently is Dragon Quest, which I think if Square Enix decides to reneg on that deal they will be moving it back to DS, and *not* to the PS3. The PS3, as I see it already has most all the series it can, with the exception of some of the otaku stuff that is on the 360. There is nothing that can be taken away from the Wii, other than Monster Hunter, Dark Side Chronicles, and some re-releases of RE games.
ivedoneyourmom said:
Answering my own question, the most likely (out of the 3 or 4 franchises it has LOL) is Samurai Warriors, since the genre has no history on the Wii and a lot of examples on the PS3. But, I think that if SW3 does reasonably well it will probably just stay- I think the producers said how they wanted it to be a Wii franchise or something along those lines.
Moor-Angol
Banned
Yes i'm very interested in Wii vs. PS3 YTD, i wonder if it's the first time since (very) long time in which the home leader and #2 system are so near.
And i noticed any new game release is planned for the two last week in December, both for Wii and PS3.
Anyway, i don't think new Mario will be a great system seller the same way FF13 will be, and Samurai Warriors 3 sales could be terribly hurted by new Mario.
But from now until middle December, Wii line-up is more strong (at least Taiko 2 and ToG will sell well) so it will be interesting to see how hw sales will change in the next weeks.
Basically PS3 won the first round, now it's time for Wii to have a chance.
Round 2, fight !
And i noticed any new game release is planned for the two last week in December, both for Wii and PS3.
Anyway, i don't think new Mario will be a great system seller the same way FF13 will be, and Samurai Warriors 3 sales could be terribly hurted by new Mario.
But from now until middle December, Wii line-up is more strong (at least Taiko 2 and ToG will sell well) so it will be interesting to see how hw sales will change in the next weeks.
Basically PS3 won the first round, now it's time for Wii to have a chance.
Round 2, fight !
Souldriver
Member
Oh god, now it gets hard. I don't have lists of sales numbers, franchises and whatnot lying around or have it all memorized, but I'll try anyway.schuelma said:
I'm not only/necessarily talking about franchises switching consoles. If PS3's userbase gains quickly and the Wii's stagnates, then...
- SE might reconsider bringing DQX to the Wii. Allthough most here think it would just go to DS instead.
- Capcom might reconsider putting out another Monster Hunter games on the Wii.
- Bandai Namco might reconsider bringing another Tales game to the Wii. Or look into a possible PS3 iteration of One Piece.
- Takara Tomy might not bring a new Naruto game to the Wii and just go for the DS instead.
- Acquire might think of bringing Tenchu to the PS3 instead of the Wii now.
- Konami ever taking the Wii version of PES seriously and releasing the game at the same time as the other console versions will get smaller (they don't right now, do they?)
- FFCC might be the last FF game on the Wii?
- More importantly and closely related to the above: any developer might have a less hard time in considering the platform they'll bring future iterations of their franchises too. Perhaps from now on the PS3 will get all the non-mainline FF games on consoles. If a developer starts making a new game, the chance they'll consider the Wii will only get smaller.
I don't have much time, so I can't construct a good argument here. I also don't have much knowledge about the (Japanese) gaming market. I quickly searched the Famitsu 500 list of 2008 to look for examples of games/franchises I can put in the list. This exercise has shown me one thing: the current Wii third party situation is even more dire than I had in mind. Which is probably also the reason why you asked me to make a list.
Edit: applause for jeremy1456
Dark Oni
Member
with the wii everything started out well i think nintendo hoped to mimic the ds's success release new types of games that do well and then third party support would also be there as the platform gains more sales sadly this hasn't happened with the wii despite being the best selling platform (sold out for 2 years?) third parties just didn't support it i think had third parties given it a fair chance it would have been very profitable for them right now pretty much a missed oppourtunity
Souldriver said:
Why? They have invested time and money creating an engine for the series, and the games they have produced for the Wii have sold well. Coupled with greater sales of the Wii in the West, Nintendo's seeming determination to help promote the game in the West, and it being easier to port a title from the Wii to the PSP than to port one from the PS3 to the PSP, and I see no reason why MH's existence on the Wii is at stake.
Because Namco's strategy has been so coherent as to be affected by hardware sales.
Ditto.
Ditto ditto.
This would be a change... how?
It probably is the last big FF on the Wii already.
That may be true; I just don't see this being caused specifically by the PS3's good sales.
I think we may have a case of over-determination here.
Souldriver said:Oh god, now it gets hard. I don't have lists of sales numbers, franchises and whatnot lying around or have it all memorized, but I'll try anyway.
I'm not only/necessarily talking about franchises switching consoles. If PS3's userbase gains quickly and the Wii's stagnates, then...
- SE might reconsider bringing DQX to the Wii. Allthough most here think it would just go to DS instead.
- Capcom might reconsider putting out another Monster Hunter games on the Wii.
- Bandai Namco might reconsider bringing another Tales game to the Wii. Or look into a possible PS3 iteration of One Piece.
- Takara Tomy might not bring a new Naruto game to the Wii and just go for the DS instead.
- Acquire might think of bringing Tenchu to the PS3 instead of the Wii now.
- Konami ever taking the Wii version of PES seriously and releasing the game at the same time as the other console versions will get smaller (they don't right now, do they?)
- FFCC might be the last FF game on the Wii?
- More importantly and closely related to the above: any developer might have a less hard time in considering the platform they'll bring future iterations of their franchises too. Perhaps from now on the PS3 will get all the non-mainline FF games on consoles. If a developer starts making a new game, the chance they'll consider the Wii will only get smaller.
Thanks for that. I'm going to try and address every franchise, but the short version of my conclusion is that its far more important how these titles actually sell on the Wii rather than any PS3 hardware victory.
DQ- Yeah..that's not coming to the PS3, period. If it moves, it will be to the DS.
Monster Hunter- We've had this discussion, and I agree its possible, but given the sales of Tri I think this will stay on Wii.
Tales- If Graces sells poorly (like barely over 200K), then I agree that they could skip the next Wii mainline entry. However, the early indications are that Graces will do very well, so I think that is unlikely.
One Piece- I think its sold ok on Wii, but I guess its conceivable they move it.
Naruto- I think this franchise is already on like every platform anyways
Tenchu- This is probably going to happen. Tenchu 4 sold horribly. However, judging by how Acquire has handled the franchise since, its probably going to PSP.
PES- It already gets shit on by Konami and the PS3 version is already pushed the most.
FFCC- Well, thats certainly not coming to the PS3. I could see SE not giving Wii anything more because of Crystal Bearers, but I think that would be a mistake on SE's part.
Chris1964 said:
The PS1/PS2 had a handful of first person RE spinoffs. I realize the on rails RE did well enough to justify a sequel, it was kind of a joke.
It's basically irrelevant if the Wii loses its amazing line of spinoffs. The world can do without another Soul Calibur Legends.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
It could get quite worse.Dragona Akehi said:
Just think of the perspective of these holidays if there were no Taiko no Tatsujin 2, Sengoku Musou 3, Tales of Graces and BioHazard Darkside Chronicles in the span of 2 months.
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
Yeah this two month period is definitely the best 3rd party situation the Wii has had. How those titles sell is more important to any continued 3rd party support than how PS3 sells IMO.