Media Create Sales: Week 13, 2011 (Mar 28 - Apr 3)

wrowa

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sphinx said:
My guess is that some people think that the lack of nintendo first party games leaves the door open for 3rd parties to release the defining software for the platform, instead of having the hardware being bought solely for the 1st party games like it has always been with nintendo.

the logic here is, nintendo waits, 3rd parties release the awesome software, said 3rd party software is so good and constant that they build up on their own a never before seen sequence of system selling software that defines the hardware..

so instead of having a "Nintendogs - Brain Age - Animal Crossing - NSMB - Pokemon" combo, we have a "Resident evil - Metal Gear - Kingdom Hearts - Final Fantasy - Dragon Quest " combo that defines the hardware.

don't ask me if that's going to work, though!
But how does this apply to the 3DS? Apart of the launch games (which apart of Street Fighter 4 were generally pretty lazy jobs) 3rd party developers don't have many heavy-hitters upcoming. There's Dead or Alive, there's Resident Evil Mercenaries. And what else? Metal Gear, Kingdom Hearts etc are still far away in the future (at that point of time they have to compete with Nintendo software anyway) and rather low-profile ports such as Tales of the Abyss or Devil Survivor aren't enough to define the hardware.

The thought is that 3rd party games are supposed to define the hardware, but how is that possible when there are no defining games upcoming? Nintendo has to push the 3DS first or else 3rd parties won't have a reason to jump on the bandwagon.

BowieZ said:
So sales -- period -- aren't an issue. People seem to be concerned over a slow 10 month opening. Firstly, ignoring the first couple holiday months for the original DS, that system experienced comparable sales.
Nintendo has sold roughly half of the initial 3DS shipment. When sales don't meet expectations, they are an issue. This is the case here. Nintendo hoped that the 3DS would sell based on his name and some 3rd party efforts.

Obviously, as we already knew, Nintendo has gone to great lengths to secure lots of third party titles for their new system (before sales were worrying) and presumably told third parties that they would -- for the first time -- be a priority in the first 10 months of launch (possibly upon their request).
Great in theory, lacking in reality. Which are those upcoming 3rd party games that will benefit from the lack of Nintendo software?
 

Lord_Byron28

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HaRyu said:
Everyone keeps saying that. When exactly did the quality, "itprintzmoney" DS games kick in, and how long was the initial glut for the DS?
Nintendogs is when it started doing better in japan. Although a lot of it's OMG sales came from the fact that no one expected it to happen. Things really heated up and went to "itprintsmoney" until Holiday 2005 with the increase in popularity for Brain Age, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing all occured. Then 2006 was pretty crazy especially with DS Lite and NSMB. The first year of the DS was slow with a few bumps such as Nintendogs and Kirby. The holiday season of 2005 is when its sales exploded and the DS lite+ NSMB= gameover for japan.
 

stilgar

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apana said:
What is this "compete" bullshit about? If they are meeting their sales target then why would they care how much NSMB 3DS sells? Nintendo doesn't make games similar to the third party games so there isn't much competition.
What? If I'm making a plateformer, I'd rather not having a fucking Mario Galaxy on the same system I'm working on. It's obvious that Nintendo games are a threat for others.
 

get2sammyb

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Cosmonaut X said:
I know this may be toeing the party line a little, but the way Nintendo approached the 3DS launch in Japan - bringing just one title, positioning their big games well out of the launch window, pushing 3rd party games in promotional material (even down to the in-depth IA interviews) etc., really does suggest that they wanted to give up the launch window to third parties either as a gesture or because they believed it would be beneficial.

So, not lazy, but perhaps mistaken?
You're spot on, but I think it was very much a mistake. Though I'm sure things will pick up when the big titles start flowing. Do we think Sony needs the NGP in Japan this year? I'm sure it will be a different story by the end of the year, but surely America/Europe needs the new Sony platform this Christmas more than Japan.
 

HaRyu

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Lord_Byron28 said:
Nintendogs is when it started doing better in japan. Although a lot of it's OMG sales came from the fact that no one expected it to happen. Things really heated up and went to "itprintsmoney" until Holiday 2005 with the increase in popularity for Brain Age, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing all occured. Then 2006 was pretty crazy especially with DS Lite and NSMB. The first year of the DS was slow with a few bumps such as Nintendogs and Kirby. The holiday season of 2005 is when its sales exploded and the DS lite+ NSMB= gameover for japan.
There we go. So in Japan, if the NDS came out in December of 04, and Nintendogs came out in April of 05, we're talking about a 4 month time period before sales started to pick up, and about 10-12 months before it started to print money. Now I have a point of reference to gauge how well the 3DS is doing.
 

Lord_Byron28

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stilgar said:
What? If I'm making a plateformer, I'd rather not having a fucking Mario Galaxy on the same system I'm working on. It's obvious that Nintendo games are a threat for others.
Epic Mickey sold extremely well despite being released on the same system with 3 mario platformers and even had to compete with DKCR that was released right around the same time.

In fact, why does everyone release most of their FPS games on 360 and PS3 when CoD clearly outsells everything by a lot and they can't compete? Why does EA constantly feel the need to try and make their next FPS compete head to head with CoD? CoD sells 20 million copies WW, why should anyone bother releasing another FPS? The answer is because there is a market for those games. Mario games selling well means there is a market for other platformers. They may not sell as well as Mario games or CoD games but they can still make good sales. It doesn't mean all will sell well especially without proper marketing, brand recognition, or great quality(applies everywhere not just nintendo consoles).
 

Xater

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get2sammyb said:
You're spot on, but I think it was very much a mistake. Though I'm sure things will pick up when the big titles start flowing. Do we think Sony needs the NGP in Japan this year? I'm sure it will be a different story by the end of the year, but surely America/Europe needs the new Sony platform this Christmas more than Japan.
True, but I don't see the NGP to be released anywhere but Japan first.
 
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get2sammyb said:
You're spot on, but I think it was very much a mistake. Though I'm sure things will pick up when the big titles start flowing. Do we think Sony needs the NGP in Japan this year? I'm sure it will be a different story by the end of the year, but surely America/Europe needs the new Sony platform this Christmas more than Japan.
Yup, if I were Sony, I'd launch psp 2 in US first. There's no sense in launching it in Japan right now and eat away at psp sales, when they're still very good.
 

charlequin

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BowieZ said:
Everyone here is bitching how there wasn't a big Nintendo title at launch like that was a mistake...?
It was a mistake. They are way off their projections in every territory. Their stockholders are going to eat them for lunch. Read the thread instead of responding to imaginary arguments no one is making.

FoneBone said:
To be fair, they do seem to have done this with Street Fighter. Other games, probably not so much.
Yeah, I wouldn't say they did the worst possible job, but they're still not up to the standards I was advocating in 2006 for the Wii launch, much less the standards I would advocate today.
 

charlequin

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stilgar said:
What? If I'm making a plateformer, I'd rather not having a fucking Mario Galaxy on the same system I'm working on.
And if I'm making a war FPS, I'd rather not have fucking Call of Duty on the same system I'm working on, right? Oh wait no, that's the total opposite of correct.
 
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charlequin said:
It was a mistake. They are way off their projections in every territory. Their stockholders are going to eat them for lunch. Read the thread instead of responding to imaginary arguments no one is making.
They already are. This stock is getting punished and will continue to get punished, I'm afraid. :(
 

Chris1964

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Sometime we must make a serious conversation about that opinion that Nintendo has to hold back so that it gives air to third parties.

Small but important to some people sales thing. It seems that Famitsu stopped providing monthly top 10 at its site. Yahoo hasn't uploaded for some weeks and only oricon has remained.
 

stilgar

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charlequin said:
And if I'm making a war FPS, I'd rather not have fucking Call of Duty on the same system I'm working on, right? Oh wait no, that's the total opposite of correct.

Do you know a lot of people who buy a system first and foremost because they love Activision games? Yeah, me neither.
 

charlequin

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stilgar said:
Do you know a lot of people who buy a system first and foremost because they love Activision games?
Rather than explain to you how bad of a point this is, let's just go back in time and rephrase my point slightly so maybe you'll pay attention to it:

me said:
And if I'm making a multiplayer FPS, I'd rather not have fucking Halo on the same system I'm working on, right? Oh wait no, that's the total opposite of correct.
Better?
 

stilgar

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charlequin said:
Rather than explain to you how bad of a point this is, let's just go back in time and rephrase my point slightly so maybe you'll pay attention to it:



Better?

Thanks for your effort, as a reward I'll rephrase my first sentence which may not have been as clear as I thought : people buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo games. Therefore, when they have to choose between two games they'll choose the one with the plumber on it.

The comparison with Halo implies that Microsoft has the same influence on its system library, which is absolutely not the case.
 

poppabk

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stilgar said:
Do you know a lot of people who buy a system first and foremost because they love Activision games? Yeah, me neither.
Well substitute CoD with Halo and you have the same argument. One of the problems that Nintendo have had on Wii is that they haven't shown with their own software that there is a market for games like FPS's.
 

Chris1964

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Orgen said:
I wasn't the one who argued with you about BT3, but I'm curious about your "no one will care for it". Care to explain why please?

Personally I don't think it could match the BT & BT2 sales (4 & 5 million right?) but it could be a million/2 million seller.
Training genre has been dead for some years now. It won't come back, not at its original form.
 
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charlequin said:
It was a mistake. They are way off their projections in every territory. Their stockholders are going to eat them for lunch. Read the thread instead of responding to imaginary arguments no one is making..
I knew the 3DS was under preforming in Japan, but i did not know it was under preforming in the rest of the world. That is really bad news for their investors.
 

stilgar

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poppabk said:
Well substitute CoD with Halo and you have the same argument. One of the problems that Nintendo have had on Wii is that they haven't shown with their own software that there is a market for games like FPS's.

I've never, ever heard a teenager saying to me that he's buying an Xbox because he loves Microsoft games. Because he wants to play Halo? That, sure. But it's one game, well 2 or 3 games by generation we're talking about here.
Nintendo develops sport, platform, rpg, even strategy (?Never played Batallion Wars) games...you've got enough to eat for a generation if you aren't a gaming junkie.
 

Alextended

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poppabk said:
Well substitute CoD with Halo and you have the same argument. One of the problems that Nintendo have had on Wii is that they haven't shown with their own software that there is a market for games like FPS's.
While they have an abundance of awesome AAA 2D and 3D 3rd party platformers since their own software showcased the market perfectly, yeah? Yeah, I don't think Nintendo not leading a genre is the problem here... Especially when 3rd parties showed there's a market to some degree, then didn't use it. Red Steel sold more than it had any right to, as did COD3 and a 2 year old MW port. A lot of that was be4 the 20 million sales boom of Modern Warfare so why weren't there more efforts at the time? Instead there was even more shit from Ubisoft like FarCry and some PSP port from EA with MOH: Heroes...
 

Chris1964

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stilgar said:
What? If I'm making a plateformer, I'd rather not having a fucking Mario Galaxy on the same system I'm working on. It's obvious that Nintendo games are a threat for others.
Last time I checked most 3rd party platformers sell better by far on Wii.
 

poppabk

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stilgar said:
I never, ever heard a teenager saying to me that he's buying an Xbox because he loves Microsoft games. Because he wants to play Halo? That, sure. But it's one game, well 2 or 3 games by generation we're talking about here.
Nintendo develops sport, platform, rpg, even strategy (?Never played Batallion Wars) games...you've got enough to eat for a generation if you aren't a gaming junkie.
MS has released 3 Halo FPS games and a Halo RTS. Releasing a party game on Wii makes sense even though Nintendo released party games on the system, releasing Epic Mickey on Wii made sense even with all the platformers that Nintendo has released. Releasing CoD on 360 made sense because of Halo not in spite of it.
 

Alextended

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poppabk said:
Releasing CoD on 360 made sense because of Halo not in spite of it.
Skipping CoD 4 on Wii made no sense whatsoever though, after the performance of 3 across platforms. CoD 3 came before Halo 3, the franchise didn't advance due to Halo. People threw around the "it can't be ported" argument at the time, especially with 3 being a port of the shitty, different, PS2 version, but that was obviously proven wrong.
 

poppabk

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Alextended said:
While they have an abundance of awesome AAA 2D and 3D 3rd party platformers since their own software showcased the market perfectly, yeah? Yeah, I don't think Nintendo not leading a genre is the problem here... Especially when 3rd parties showed there's a market to some degree, then didn't use it. Red Steel sold more than it had any right to, as did COD3 and a 2 year old MW port. A lot of that was be4 the 20 million sales boom of Modern Warfare so why weren't there more efforts at the time? Instead there was even more shit from Ubisoft like FarCry and some PSP port from EA with MOH: Heroes...
I think they have the only AAA 3rd party platformer released. 3rd parties just don't want to make AAA platformers. 3rd parties have been very shortsighted even with ample evidence, Rock Band 1 missing the Wii until a half assed port that deflated RB2 is the prime example. But this is getting off topic for a Japanese sales thread.
 

Kyoufu

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Alextended said:
Skipping CoD4 on Wii made no sense whatsoever though, after the performance of 3 across platforms. CoD3 came before Halo 3 anyway, the franchise didn't advance due to Halo.
wat

COD4's success came from PS3/360 60FPS with good graphics. Wii version would not have been worth their time.
 

Lord_Byron28

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stilgar said:
I've never, ever heard a teenager saying to me that he's buying an Xbox because he loves Microsoft games. Because he wants to play Halo? That, sure. But it's one game, well 2 or 3 games by generation we're talking about here.
Nintendo develops sport, platform, rpg, even strategy (?Never played Batallion Wars) games...you've got enough to eat for a generation if you aren't a gaming junkie.
So you're saying that on the 360 and PS3 gamers, buy CoD and then go out and buy more war FPS games but with Nintendo systems the audience just buys one from every genre and calls it good? Not quite seeing the logic.
 

Alextended

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Kyoufu said:
wat

COD4's success came from PS3/360 60FPS with good graphics. Wii version would not have been worth their time.
Effort? Like 2 dudes from Treyarch ported the whole engine and game for WaW... They made the effort later after the ship had sailed anyway.
 

Alextended

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Kyoufu said:
Well obviously not. Who would want the Wii version over PS360?
So it wasn't worth the effort yet they kept repeating said effort with WaW, MW, Blops? When will you start making sense instead of just speaking for your preferences?
 

Chris1964

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It's a fact that many of the genres Nintendo dominates are the genres third parties have found the biggest success on Nintendo systems (except Just Dance).
 

Alextended

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poppabk said:
You realize that Modern Warfare 1 is available on the Wii right?
Yeah, idk what he's doing, I'm just saying COD3 Wii sold on par with other platforms so it made no sense, at the time, to skip a Wii version of 4. Yet they did. 4 was when the series took off the way it did, so perhaps it would have taken off on Wii as well, even if not to the same degree. Obviously with current data based on this course of events rather than what may have happened, COD sells more elsewhere, but that's not proof that's how things would have developed had they not gone against the sensible thing and skipped 4 on Wii initially. And obviously it's been worth their effort with the comparatively tiny sales they get from it three years in a row so questioning that is silly also. Anyway, as you said, this is way off topic so I'm just gonna stop here, I don't think a reasonable discussion came out of it anyway. Oh well.
 

poppabk

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Kyoufu said:
COD4's success came from PS3/360 60FPS with good graphics. Wii version would not have been worth their time.
Kyoufu said:
Why does it matter if its on the Wii or not? I'm so confused here :(
It was obviously worth their time because they went ahead and made a Wii version.
WaW is rumored to have sold over 1 million on Wii, approx half of what the PS3 version of MW or WaW did. The Wii version of WaW was definitely worth it.
 

charlequin

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stilgar said:
Therefore, when they have to choose between two games they'll choose the one with the plumber on it.
No one is choosing. That's the entire point. People buy Xboxes solely to play Halo, and then they also buy other shooters because they're people who like playing shooters. Similarly, people buy systems solely to play Mario and then they also buy other platformers because they're people who like playing platformers. This is true of literally every genre and has been true on literally every platform. RPGs sell better on whatever platform Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest is on. Shooters sell better on whatever platform Halo or CoD is on. You run into trouble if you actually launch within the same 3-4 week window, sure, but people who are a fan of a genre are going to want more, not less, comparable titles during the rest of the year when the genre king hasn't just recently been released. There is nothing magical about Nintendo's properties that causes them alone out of all franchises in the industry to reverse this trend.

I really can't believe I had to spell this out.

Chris1964 said:
It's a fact that many of the genres Nintendo dominates are the genres third parties have found the biggest success on Nintendo systems (except Just Dance).
Even that's a casual music game and was primed both by the party-game reputation of the Wii and the success of Guitar Hero III. (And yes, pretty much all the third-party success on Wii comes in genres aligned with, not opposed to, what Nintendo themselves have had success with.)
 

stilgar

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Chris1964 said:
It's a fact that many of the genres Nintendo dominates are the genres third parties have found the biggest success on Nintendo systems (except Just Dance).

Well, I trust you and your sales-age knowledge. But it doesn't change, for me, the fact that third parties have to game a bigger effort on Nintendo system to stand out, because they have to compete with Nintendo games.
 

charlequin

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stilgar said:
But it doesn't change, for me, the fact that third parties have to game a bigger effort on Nintendo system to stand out, because they have to compete with Nintendo games.
Third parties are competing with Nintendo games when they release on other platforms too. Nintendo do not have magic powers which cause them to be uniquely difficult to compete with.
 

stilgar

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charlequin said:
There is nothing magical about Nintendo's properties that causes them alone out of all franchises in the industry to reverse this trend.
It's not about a magical thing : it's just the quantity of games added with the reputation of Nintendo as a developers which make, I think, the competition tougher. I know that people who love Halo will buy other FPS : but does this logic works with GC/Wii?
 

poppabk

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stilgar said:
It's not about a magical thing : it's just the quantity of games added with the reputation of Nintendo as a developers which make, I think, the competition tougher. I know that people who love Halo will buy other FPS : but does this logic works with GC/Wii?
Dec 2010 NPD
5) Donkey Kong Country Returns
6) Epic Mickey
 

Alextended

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stilgar said:
It's not about a magical thing : it's just the quantity of games added with the reputation of Nintendo as a developers which make, I think, the competition tougher. I know that people who love Halo will buy other FPS : but does this logic works with GC/Wii?
It works how they keep trying to tell you and you keep saying you disagree. They've been consistent with their responses.
pretty much all the third-party success on Wii comes in genres aligned with, not opposed to, what Nintendo themselves have had success with.
It's a fact that many of the genres Nintendo dominates are the genres third parties have found the biggest success on Nintendo systems (except Just Dance).
 

Sage00

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Alextended said:
Yeah, idk what he's doing, I'm just saying COD3 Wii sold on par with other platforms so it made no sense, at the time, to skip a Wii version of 4. Yet they did. 4 was when the series took off the way it did, so perhaps it would have taken off on Wii as well, even if not to the same degree. Obviously with current data based on this course of events rather than what may have happened, COD sells more elsewhere, but that's not proof that's how things would have developed had they not gone against the sensible thing and skipped 4 on Wii initially. And obviously it's been worth their effort with the comparatively tiny sales they get from it three years in a row so questioning that is silly also. Anyway, as you said, this is way off topic so I'm just gonna stop here, I don't think a reasonable discussion came out of it anyway. Oh well.
The reason MW took off was purely due to word of mouth about its online component. It's the reason why it sold so steadily over a long period of time and built up the large fanbase which allowed MW2's launch to be so huge. Do you think online multiplayer on the Wii would've been anywhere near as popular (or even work as well, due to Nintendo's broken closed system)? A quick look at online numbers for any multiplatform PS360/Wii where sales were similar or greater, the rhythm-action games for example, shows you how it would've turned out.
 

Alextended

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Sage00 said:
The reason MW took off was purely due to word of mouth about its online component. It's the reason why it sold so steadily over a long period of time and built up the large fanbase which allowed MW2's launch to be so huge. Do you think online multiplayer on the Wii would've been anywhere near as popular (or even work as well, due to Nintendo's broken closed system)? A quick look at online numbers for any multiplatform PS360/Wii where sales were similar or greater, the rhythm-action games for example, shows you how it would've turned out.
All I said was skipping 4 after 3's performance made no sense at the time. You're just making assumptions of how it would or wouldn't have turned out based on the things you like about the game. The online component works alright on Wii and has a fanbase, despite the little resources Activision dedicated to the ports. Black ops is even patchable, though there's been no DLC. But that's not Wii's fault. Music games on Wii started with being crapped out with no features also, but the latest versions also have DLC and online modes etc. Guitar Hero certainly saw it worthwhile to give proper support to Wii, and was rewarded. Other franchises didn't and weren't. Or are you saying that because currently, after the genre's whoring and decline and all that, there are fewer online players on Wii, the effort put into making good versions of GH wasn't worth it?

Currently we can't know how things would have turned out had 3rd parties not both put & let the Wii market down for so long. I'm not saying it would have been so much better for them for sure, that would be an assumption also, I'm just saying certain decisions made no sense when they were taken. They make sense with the current situation, but now it looks like little more than a self-fulfilling prophecy. I haven't seen a compelling argument against this personally.
 

Orgen

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Chris1964 said:
Training genre has been dead for some years now. It won't come back, not at its original form.
Yes, I share your opinion but "no one will care" is too strong to determine the sales of a possible Brain Training 3. Or are you telling me that despite not selling 4-5 million (like BT & BT2) because of the decline of the genre, BT3 could not be a million seller? :p

Chris1964 said:
Sometime we must make a serious conversation about that opinion that Nintendo has to hold back so that it gives air to third parties.
I'll be waiting for your thread ;)
 

Chris1964

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Orgen said:
Yes, I share your opinion but "no one will care" is too strong to determine the sales of a possible Brain Training 3. Or are you telling me that despite not selling 4-5 million (like BT & BT2) because of the decline of the genre, BT3 could not be a million seller? :p
I doubt BT3 will sell even 500k.

Cooking Navi 2 showed the way.

Everything similar from IE Institute and Rocket Company bombed hard.
 

Thoraxes

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Never underestimate the power of Amagami.
The game is waaaay too fun, and it's popularity has only been furthered by the anime adaptation last year, making those who really want to play it after seeing the anime want to buy it.

That's a totally acceptable thing. It's a fun dating-sim.
 

Orgen

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Chris1964 said:
I doubt BT3 will sell even 500k.

Cooking Navi 2 showed the way.

Everything similar from IE Institute and Rocket Company bombed hard.
I didn't play any of the games but I wouldn't compare a Training game developed by Nintendo to one developed by Rocket Company.

Anyway I doubt we'll see a Brain Training 3DS by Nintendo, so who knows what could have happened.
 

Chris1964

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[NDS] Zaidan Houjin Nippon Kanji Nouryoku Kentei Kyoukai Koushiki Soft: 200 Mannin no KanKen - Tokoton Kanji Nou (IE Institute) {2006.11.09} - 33.932 / 580.510
[NDS] Zaidan Houjin Nippon Kanji Nouryoku Kentei Kyoukai Koushiki Soft: 250 Mannin no KanKen (IE Institute) {2007.11.01} - 14.213 / 408.381
[NDS] Zaidan Houjin Nippon Kanji Nouryoku Kentei Kyoukai Koushiki Soft: 250 Mannin no KanKen - Tokoton Kanji Nou Premium - Zenkyuu Zen-Kanji Kanzen Seiha (IE Institute) {2009.04.23} - 3.350 / 31.198

[NDS] Zaidan Houjin Nippon Kanji Nouryoku Kentei Kyoukai Kounin: KanKen DS (Rocket Company) {2006.09.28} - 45.292 / 609.683
[NDS] Zaidan Houjin Nippon Kanji Nouryoku Kentei Kyoukai Kounin: KanKen DS 2 + Jouyou Kanji Jiten (Rocket Company) {2007.09.27} - 28.301 / 351.492
[NDS] Zaidan Houjin Nippon Kanji Nouryoku Kentei Kyoukai Kounin: KanKen DS 3 Deluxe (Rocket Company) {2009.04.09} - 5.917 / 62.891

[NDS] Cooking Navi (Nintendo) {2006.07.20} - 126.530 / 987.988
[NDS] Cooking Navi: International Meals (Nintendo) {2008.12.04} - 4.152 / 29.172


http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/11/29/kawashima_brain_age/