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Media Create Sales: Week 13, 2012 (Mar 26 - Apr 01)

Durante

Member
Square is a business company and they want money, not reviews saying how pretty Final Fantasy is.
Reviews saying how pretty FF is might have something to do with how much money it makes.

Anyway, what S-E needs to fix above all else regarding all their internal development in larger projects is their methodology, not their objectives. Their projects are all at least twice as expensive as they should be, simply due to inefficient development. FF13-2 seems like a step in the right direction in this regard, but it remains to be seen whether they can also pull it off for a game that is not a direct sequel.
 
Reviews saying how pretty FF is might have something to do with how much money it makes.

Anyway, what S-E needs to fix above all else regarding all their internal development in larger projects is their methodology, not their objectives. Their projects are all at least twice as expensive as they should be, simply due to inefficient development. FF13-2 seems like a step in the right direction in this regard, but it remains to be seen whether they can also pull it off for a game that is not a direct sequel.

I will bet cold hard cash that FFXIII-2 is 90% composed of leftover shit from FFXIII, and that is the only reason they got it out the door so quickly, and is therefore not a step in the right direction insofar as development practices are concerned.
 
Reviews saying how pretty FF is might have something to do with how much money it makes.

Anyway, what S-E needs to fix above all else regarding all their internal development in larger projects is their methodology, not their objectives. Their projects are all at least twice as expensive as they should be, simply due to inefficient development. FF13-2 seems like a step in the right direction in this regard, but it remains to be seen whether they can also pull it off for a game that is not a direct sequel.

Im sure reviews said at least ff13 looked pretty, it made less money than every other ff in recent memory
 
Mario007 said:
I mean Versus is set to have a camera mode simply because Nomura is so confident of having brilliant graphics in his game (and this is coming from a guy that did KH series, which have a lovely art style and look very nice but are by no means top-notch...well maybe apart from BBS and DDD which push their respective systems)
Heh. At the rate Versus is coming along, they might as well have announced it for Wii U in 2006.
 

Wazzim

Banned
I believe that FF is slowly but steadily dying out and don't really care.
It has become a silly franchise that doesn't represent quality anymore, it's better to kill it and start anew.
 
I agree, they need some new writers (or just let Nojima to write all FF stories) and they need to take Toriyama away from it all. But they should not look at the west, that's what they're doing now and it's not working well. They need to stay true to their Japanese approaches that got the series popular in the first place and it is what fans are look for. That doesn't mean they only have to J-Pop themes though, obviously. Just look at FF 12.



It came in 2009 in Japan and 2010, which is pretty late in DS's life. It's only a year away from 3DS's launch. And by that time the new software on DS has started to die out (now obviously I'm excluding Pokemon from that).



It definately will have something to do with. I've stated above why I think so. After all FF sells better on ps3 than xbox360, which is a known fact (even in the US or UK despite advertising the games as Xbox 360 only). I think they are trying to figure out will the additional expenditure of porting/co-developing the games to xbox be equal or lower to the potential sales on the xbox. If Versus or FF X HD turn profit on a single platform then it could tell us a lot about where the franchise will end up on.

Versus was stated to be a ps3 exclusive by Nomura himself. he said he likes to develop only for one platform and take all the advantages of that platform. The reason why it's taking so long is simply because of the Crystal Tools fuck up. The game only entered full production a year ago.

That review shows you how FF (and RPG) fans view the appeal of aesthetics and graphics of the FF games. I mean Versus is set to have a camera mode simply because Nomura is so confident of having brilliant graphics in his game (and this is coming from a guy that did KH series, which have a lovely art style and look very nice but are by no means top-notch...well maybe apart from BBS and DDD which push their respective systems)
It doesn't matter that the 360 version sells less, many games sell less on the 360 and vice versa between the PS3, it sells enough to warrant being multiplatform. If Wii-U sells well, and its capable enough to run FFXV and has the userbase to sell it, it'll also have the game. Ofcourse fans want FF to have good graphics, but gameplay is always going to have priority, why do you think FF is selling less and less as the games are getting more and more cinematic?

I believe that FF is slowly but steadily dying out and don't really care.
It has become a silly franchise that doesn't represent quality anymore, it's better to kill it and start anew.
A new proper metal gear would do more for the Wii than a FF thats following the current trend. At least metal gear is consistent with its sales.

No they wouldn't. The whole appeal of those games is the way they look and the story they tell. Having lesser graphics in the next instalment would probably cause a huge outrage here.

Also look at all the comments on DQX around the internet, people laughing about how it looks worse than DQ8 and are bashing it.
As people have said, its being an MMO thats warranting the backlash, not the graphics. Otherwise we would've had the complaints as soon as it was announced for the Wii a few years ago.

I will bet cold hard cash that FFXIII-2 is 90% composed of leftover shit from FFXIII, and that is the only reason they got it out the door so quickly, and is therefore not a step in the right direction insofar as development practices are concerned.
I bet it was planned as a quick cash-in from the beginning, they just didn't foresee fans not wanting it, rather than anticipating/welcoming it like FFX-2.
 

Wazzim

Banned
Are people really discussing if FF will be multiplatform or not? Even after seeing how much sales the 360 games got?
The 360 version of XIII sold extremely well for being just a quick port. No reason to miss out on the sales.
Don't act like the graphics can only be good when a game is exclusive because FFXIII Versus doesn't look like something that is impossible on the 360.
 
Are people really discussing if FF will be multiplatform or not? Even after seeing how much sales the 360 games got?
The 360 version of XIII sold extremely well for being just a quick port. No reason to miss out on the sales.
Don't act like the graphics can only be good when a game is exclusive because FFXIII Versus doesn't look like something that is impossible on the 360.
Taking advantage of the systems power sounds like circa 2005/2006 PR bullshit from Sony regarding the PS3. We all know how that turned out.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
The picture was updated after that post.
Ah ok, so he just updated the picture at the server. I didnt see any edit message in the post, so i assumed it was the original and unedited post =)


Taking advantage of the systems power sounds like circa 2005/2006 PR bullshit from Sony regarding the PS3. We all know how that turned out.
Looking at the games that really took advantage of the PS3 hardware (God of War, Uncharted), i'd say that it turned out good. The problem with many 3rd party games is that they didnt take the extra time to optimize their game for the PS3, which is understandable in my opinion. No need to spend a lot of extra time and money when porting it would turn out to be a near equal or equal result as the Xbox 360 version.
 
Are people really discussing if FF will be multiplatform or not? Even after seeing how much sales the 360 games got?
The 360 version of XIII sold extremely well for being just a quick port. No reason to miss out on the sales.
Don't act like the graphics can only be good when a game is exclusive because FFXIII Versus doesn't look like something that is impossible on the 360.
It's actually weird that they haven't announced a 360 version of VsXIII yet. It's not going to shock anyone, whatsoever. If anything people are wondering when, not if. So I've no idea what they're waiting for.

As for the eventual FFXV and the return of the flagship game to Nintendo consoles with the Wii U - I can see it going either way.

It will surely be multiplatform though.
 
Versus is in development hell. It's a delicate creature you don't want to tinker with, and a 360 port would surely cause an unhealthy amount of headaches.
 
It's actually weird that they haven't announced a 360 version of VsXIII yet. It's not going to shock anyone, whatsoever. If anything people are wondering when, not if. So I've no idea what they're waiting for.

They're waiting for it to actually exist before making any platform changes. Pretty decent chance Versus XIII isn't finished until after the PS4 and Xbox 3 have been released.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Well, I'm willing to shift my position. This is how I see it with the facts on the ground now, but we have two consecutive E3s to get through before we have enough information to make a final judgment. My position in, like, April of 2006 was that Sony was going to trivially stomp everyone when their system shipped. I don't think my actual reasoning was wrong there; I just didn't foresee the black swan pricing the PS3 wound up saddled with. If Nintendo overdeliver and Sony underdeliver, there's definitely room for a shift. (I honestly can't imagine even a wildly unrealistic scenario in which Microsoft becomes a player in Japan.)



Right. The archetypical Japanese PS3 game is already basically Wii+ assets rendering in HD, sooo... I'm not sure why future console development wouldn't just continue to design games around Wii+ assets. That might open up certain approaches (Wii U + PS4 multiplat release) that won't be as viable for Western games, but I definitely don't think the Wii U is necessary to help Japanese devs keep costs down.

Well, me too I don't think that costs will be so crucial to determine support/non support for Wii U. Considering also the portable market, cheaper than Wii U development, I think that if developers will look at costs as a primary element to decide where to bring their games, they'll look at 3ds or psvita before thinking to Wii U.

I also agree with you that, without a firm release/price/lineup there is still room for different approach to the next steps of Japanese development on PS3-WiiU and so on...up to now we know few real info about Wii U and absolutely nothing about PS4 to decide where to bet our beliefs.

My general opinion is that Wii U has less casual-power than Wii (or that Upad has less casual power than Wiimote), and I think that Wii U will not be as popular as the Wii.
I also think on the other side that we could also see a Wii U less popular than Wii but with a third party support more balanced among PS3-WiiU-PS4 compared to PS3-360-WiiU.
Especially considering the "bridge" positioning of the Wii U in between PS3 and 4, I can imagine more multiplatform titles developed ALSO for Wii U, also judging Nintendo's desire to open themselves to the third party support (looking at their policy with 3ds different to the one they had with ds, and to their recent official statement about this point)
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
FFXV will probably be a PS3/360/WiiU game. I just hope Kawazu's team does it.

What do you think they intend to do with Luminous then?

It's designed primarily as a DX11 hardware level engine, so not using most of that functionality for at least two of their launch platforms strikes me as odd.

At this point my interest in the next mainline FF is primarily in seeing what they do to pull the series out of the death spiral they set it on.
This statement seems to imply they're guaranteed success. :p
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Finally, a good seller for Vita.

...Come on, I want to believe.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Well, it would be a good beginning. Finally something else for 2012.

Yes, I'm talking like it's been already announced because sincerly I can't think of anything else. This must be Project Diva 3 for Vita, in development since last year probably and ready to launch this year. If it's for PS3 then...oh well... But I don't think it isn't for Vita.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Can this save Vita?

While it will give it a bump, it won't give the system a long term sales boost.

The problems the Vita has are:

1.) Sony has no notable first party franchises in Japan with which to support a system and build a customer base.
2.) Most of Sony's strongest partners are either keeling over and dying in the retail business (Square Enix, Konami, Level 5), or have seemingly left their handheld (Capcom). This leaves them with some Sega and Nacmo support, both of whom have relatively smaller franchises.
3.) The Vita's potential fanbase is currently split between the 3DS, PS3, and mobile phones, and all these platforms are in a relatively or very healthy state right now, so there's not much interest in moving off of them.
4.) Due to the above, the system seems to have a vote of no confidence from third parties, which prevents the most important thing: a constant stream of games consumers are interested in buying in the 200K+ range, at least every 2-5 weeks (depending on time of year), and at least 2-3 500K+ big sellers per year.

Now, there are some series starting to put up bad to mediocre numbers on the 3DS (Revelations, KH3D) and PSP (Yakuza), but there's no clear sign that the Vita is the solution to that problem for them, so they might just stop investment, move to another platform that isn't the Vita, or stick with what they're doing.
 
Revelations is not putting "bad to medioce" numbers. T__T

And Kingdom Hearts and Yakuza just launched. You don't need to outsell past entries to be successful.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Good luck with that after the restructuring.

Interestingly enough they didn't kill a lot of Japanese games, but primarily Western targeted ones (from either region).

I'd expect things like Tennis and whatever that new IP they were making in England to evaporate, but said above Miku game and PSO2 port to exist.

Note that I also said "some" and "both of whom have relatively smaller franchises".

Revelations is not putting "bad to medioce" numbers. T__T

And Kingdom Hearts and Yakuza just launched. You don't need to outsell past entries to be successful.

If the first Wii U 3D Mario game came out and debuted at 45% of Galaxy's opening, and then ended up with less sales than the opening week of Mario Galaxy overall despite being a very high effort production, would you feel this is in any way a good performance?
 

Krev

Unconfirmed Member
Interestingly enough they didn't kill a lot of Japanese games, but primarily Western targeted ones (from either region).

I'd expect things like Tennis and whatever that new IP they were making in England to evaporate, but said above Miku game and PSO2 port to exist.

Note that I also said "some" and "both of whom have relatively smaller franchises".
PSO2 is a good fit for the platform, but assuming Project Diva 3 is hitting Vita, I wonder if they'll stick with the platform in the future? My suspicion is Miku will go multiplatform.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
PSO2 is a good fit for the platform, but assuming Project Diva 3 is hitting Vita, I wonder if they'll stick with the platform in the future? My suspicion is Miku will go multiplatform.

Isn't Miku already multiplatform?

We've had a 3DS release and an iOS release pretty recently.
 

Krev

Unconfirmed Member
Isn't Miku already multiplatform?

We've had a 3DS release and an iOS release pretty recently.
Well, I mean no single platform releases.
They've already started to establish a market for it on 3DS with Project Mirai, so why not capitalize on that? And abandoning Vita wouldn't make much sense if they encourage a lot of people to pick up the platform for PD3. It would also be a simple up-port to Vita.

But I'm definitely getting ahead of myself. We don't even know for sure what the Miku game is or what platform it's on.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
For Revelations, certainly it isn't putting bad / mediocre numbers in Japan. Outside Japan, it's something else ( but I've seen that the almost 100k of the first month in US is good for cvxfreak, so, maybe... considering the very low profile advertising campaign in US )... about KH, unfortunately it didn't debut good, but maybe it can sell a bit more through time like RE, which had much better legs than other main releases.

Curious to see which numbers Vita and 3DS will put during Golden Week period.
 

Cipherr

Member
If the first Wii U 3D Mario game came out and debuted at 45% of Galaxy's opening, and then ended up with less sales than the opening week of Mario Galaxy overall despite being a very high effort production, would you feel this is in any way a good performance?

I know what you are getting at, but Handheld RE is not Console RE. Its a distinction that for, whatever reason is ignored, but it is true nonetheless. Theres zero precedent to expect a resident evil game on a handheld to equal that of its mainline entries on consoles. None. And this is hardly the only franchise that applies to.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Well, I mean no single platform releases.
They've already started to establish a market for it on 3DS with Project Mirai, so why not capitalize on that? And abandoning Vita wouldn't make much sense if they encourage a lot of people to pick up the platform for PD3. It would also be a simple up-port to Vita.

But I'm definitely getting ahead of myself. We don't even know for sure what the Miku game is or what platform it's on.

I feel with music games and fighting games it matters a bit less since you can take what is largely the same content, put it on a new platform, and rebrand it as a new title even if it isn't that different.

That way you can also flood the market with more titles without it seeming like you're releasing a new game every 4-6 months on the same platform.

I imagine the cost difference between releasing a Vita game, a PS3 dreamy theater adapter, and an iOS game versus releasing all three on each of the platform is marginal.

I know what you are getting at, but Handheld RE is not Console RE. Its a distinction that for, whatever reason is ignored, but it is true nonetheless. Theres zero precedent to expect a resident evil game on a handheld to equal that of its mainline entries on consoles. None. And this is hardly the only franchise that applies to.
I was referring to Kingdom Hearts 3D relative to Birth By Sleep there.

Revelations was fairly sent to die on a global basis, since the product they really care about is Resident Evil 6, but there isn't a Kingdom Hearts 3 coming out in November.

For Revelations, certainly it isn't putting bad / mediocre numbers in Japan. Outside Japan, it's something else ( but I've seen that the almost 100k of the first month in US is good for cvxfreak, so, maybe... considering the very low profile advertising campaign in US )... about KH, unfortunately it didn't debut good, but maybe it can sell a bit more through time like RE, which had much better legs than other main releases.

Curious to see which numbers Vita and 3DS will put during Golden Week period.
I wouldn't really consider this an especially solid performance for Resident Evil given the production values of the game.

They could have released a vastly cheaper to make Sengoku Basara game and likely gotten the same result or better.

If this was a bog standard 3DS game, I would think it was a pretty good performance, but I feel at some point the amount of effort put into a game has to come in to play here.
 

duckroll

Member
I feel with music games and fighting games it matters a bit less since you can take what is largely the same content, put it on a new platform, and rebrand it as a new title even if it isn't that different.

That way you can also flood the market with more titles without it seeming like you're releasing a new game every 4-6 months on the same platform.

Yeah but that's not the case here. The PSP Project Diva games and the 3DS Miku game are completely different. The gameplay, the presentation, and the developers are all different. As for the iOS one, that's actually more of a Typing of the Miku game.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Yeah but that's not the case here. The PSP Project Diva games and the 3DS Miku game are completely different. The gameplay, the presentation, and the developers are all different. As for the iOS one, that's actually more of a Typing of the Miku game.

I feel you could duplicate this scenario though by also having a separate Diva line for 3DS to try and milk people more as opposed to a simultaneously release where people are more likely to buy one or the other.

I mean, I could easily see multiplatform releases, it's just that I think the opening still exists in the same way you can have like a Dynasty Warriors game on the Wii and then an expanded one on the PS3 later.

Of course, if that works in 2012 is more debatable.
 

duckroll

Member
I feel you could duplicate this scenario though by also having a separate Diva line for 3DS to try and milk people more as opposed to a simultaneously release where people are more likely to buy one or the other.

I mean, I could easily see multiplatform releases, it's just that I think the opening still exists in the same way you can have like a Dynasty Warriors game on the Wii and then an expanded one on the PS3 later.

Of course, if that works in 2012 is more debatable.

I'm simply pointing out that the Miku multiplatform strategy is not really as simple as the scenario you pointed out. For whatever reason, the games they put on each platform are substantially different enough that it is not something that qualifies as "rebrand it as a new title even if it isn't that different."
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I'm simply pointing out that the Miku multiplatform strategy is not really as simple as the scenario you pointed out. For whatever reason, the games they put on each platform are substantially different enough that it is not something that qualifies as "rebrand it as a new title even if it isn't that different."

Fair point.

I wasn't aware that the iOS one wasn't actually asset sharing.
 
I wouldn't really consider this an especially solid performance for Resident Evil given the production values of the game.

They could have released a vastly cheaper to make Sengoku Basara game and likely gotten the same result or better.

If this was a bog standard 3DS game, I would think it was a pretty good performance, but I feel at some point the amount of effort put into a game has to come in to play here.

Do we know RE:R production values?
Having played the game, I can say it's a bigger effort than usual for an handheld system but it's not close to a mainline console game. Furthermore, Nintendo distributed and promoted the game in the West.
 

Dalthien

Member
Final Fantasy IIIr on DS may have sold more units worldwide than XIII-2. It definitely did in Japan; and seeing how the franchise is at its absolute low point and SE is/was completely overwhelmed with the current gen of HD consoles it may not be the worst idea to rethink the way they approach the franchise.

This had never crossed my mind before, but in the US, FF3DS LTD is a little more than double what FFXIII-2 opened at in Feb. And FF3DS sold more than FFXIII-2 in Japan as well.

So yeah, it seems quite possible a remake on DS will outsell a sequel to a main series entry on PS3/360 worldwide. Man, what a clusterfuck XIII-2 has been!
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Do we know RE:R production values?
Having played the game, I can say it's a bigger effort than usual for an handheld system but it's not close to a mainline console game. Furthermore, Nintendo distributed and promoted the game in the West.

Well, let's see:
-Leading edge 3DS engine that is an offshoot of their main console engine.
-Leading edge 3DS visuals with frequent comparisons to HD consoles by both fans and Capcom.
-Marketed and/or shown off at almost every major 3DS event since the system was announced.
-Capcom: “Maybe I shouldn’t say this, but looking at the finished game makes me think why we didn’t slap a number on the title,” Kawata said during a recent Iwata Asks. “It’s a true-as-can-be Resident Evil game from head to toe, so please enjoy it.”
-Capcom: "Resident Evil Revelations is an all new Resident Evil title with over 20 hours of gameplay, and cutscenes beautifully rendered in fear-inducing 3D," a Capcom spokesperson told me in an e-mailed statement. "A true console experience on a handheld device, Resident Evil Revelations is an epic title that offers both a single-player campaign for that classic survival horror gaming experience, and an additional RAID mode that can be played cooperatively or single player. To handle all of that data Resident Evil Revelations requires a 4GB cartridge, resulting in a higher price point."

I feel pretty confident that Capcom thought very highly of the product and put in a lot of effort.

As of today, they're about 100K past the latest Harvest Moon title and Shining Blade.
 

I know that, but that does not mean that they spent nearly as close as RE5. If you have played the game, you'll know what I'm saying. Revelations is a big effort handheld-wise, not with the parameters you apply for home consoles.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I know that, but that does not mean that they spent nearly as close as RE5. If you have played the game, you'll know what I'm saying. Revelations is a big effort handheld-wise, not with the parameters you apply for home consoles.

I don't think you understand my argument.

I'm saying that Resident Evil: Revelations cost many times more than Harvest Moon 3DS, despite not selling twice as much.

It's selling like games with a significantly lower cost despite being a very high effort handheld title. This is the bar by which I judge its sales mediocre.
 

matmanx1

Member
This had never crossed my mind before, but in the US, FF3DS LTD is a little more than double what FFXIII-2 opened at in Feb. And FF3DS sold more than FFXIII-2 in Japan as well.

So yeah, it seems quite possible a remake on DS will outsell a sequel to a main series entry on PS3/360 worldwide. Man, what a clusterfuck XIII-2 has been!

Still, I wonder if the actual profit SE made from XIII-2 won't (if it isn't already) be higher than the profit they made from the FF3 DS remake because of the different price point (it was $60-80 in the US depending on the version vs. $40 for FF3 DS) and because XIII-2 reused so many assets.

I could be way off here and maybe FF 3 DS was a very cheap project and thus very profitable compared to XIII-2 but I do wonder about those margins.
 

Dalthien

Member
I don't think you understand my argument.

I'm saying that Resident Evil: Revelations cost many times more than Harvest Moon 3DS, despite not selling twice as much.

It's selling like games with a significantly lower cost despite being a very high effort handheld title. This is the bar by which I judge its sales mediocre.

First off, RE:R split dev costs with Mercenaries. They basically got two games for the price of one, so in terms of results, you have to add the sales totals for both Mercs and Revelations.

Secondly, I don't think Capcom ever expected anything substantial for Revelations. If they had, it would have appeared in their list of sales projections on one of their quarterly statements - where they give their expectations for all of their high-profile titles. Revelations never appeared on any of these lists of sales projections, which means that internally, RE:R was never expected to be a top-tier title in terms of sales.

Still, I wonder if the actual profit SE made from XIII-2 won't (if it isn't already) be higher than the profit they made from the FF3 DS remake because of the different price point (it was $60-80 in the US depending on the version vs. $40 for FF3 DS) and because XIII-2 reused so many assets.

I could be way off here and maybe FF 3 DS was a very cheap project and thus very profitable compared to XIII-2 but I do wonder about those margins.


Yeah, we'll never know all the financial details. I suspect that FF3 was still significantly cheaper to develop than FFXIII-2 because of the vast gulf between the DS and the HD systems. And you have to add in a small amount for having XIII-2 up and running on two systems instead of one. And the marketing spend for XIII-2 was no doubt higher than FF3. But as you pointed out, the revenue per unit is higher on XIII-2 than FF3. So who knows.

I just found the comparison interesting in light of all Mario's points (and he certainly isn't the only one) about how the whole FF experience is driven and determined by the amazing graphical showcase and lavish cutscenes, and yet here we have the butt-ugly FF3 on DS outselling the graphical showpiece XIII-2 worldwide. It kind of calls into question just how important the graphics really are in the overall picture for Final Fantasy. Personally, I expect that a top-notch Final Fantasy game that wasn't the graphical messiah could still sell very well. I think a fairly small group of graphics-whore fans have somehow pushed this narrative that a moderately scaled Final Fantasy (in terms of graphics) couldn't sell. I don't buy it.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
First off, RE:R split dev costs with Mercenaries. They basically got two games for the price of one, so in terms of results, you have to add the sales totals for both Mercs and Revelations.
This argument seems silly to me. Games like Call of Duty amortize costs by reusing tons of technology and art assets for every entry, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't consider them as stand alone titles or add their sales together.

The same is true of the new Medal of Honor. It's using Frostbite 2 and is straight lifting a lot of Battlefield 3's assets. I don't think adding its sales to Battlefield 3 is remotely realistic though.

Secondly, I don't think Capcom ever expected anything substantial for Revelations. If they had, it would have appeared in their list of sales projections on one of their quarterly statements - where they give their expectations for all of their high-profile titles. Revelations never appeared on any of these lists of sales projections, which means that internally, RE:R was never expected to be a top-tier title in terms of sales.

Capcom had expectations of 1.5 million units for Dragon's Dogma worldwide. The game has been worked on for 3-4 years by a team of 150 people. However, Capcom has also revealed that their hopes for the title are much higher, especially in Japan where they say "But in Japan, we can absolutely sell a million units."

If the game hits 1.5 million units worldwide, it will have hit Capcom's official expectations. That doesn't mean that the game was a good investment, and it doesn't mean that it hit anywhere near what they were hoping it might do.

Did Capcom make Revelations a tentpole to their financial projections? No, but that doesn't mean their aspirations weren't higher or that the game was a good investment choice relative to spending its budget on other titles.
 

Dalthien

Member
This argument seems silly to me. Games like Call of Duty amortize costs by reusing tons of technology and art assets for every entry, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't consider them as stand alone titles or add their sales together.

The same is true of the new Medal of Honor. It's using Frostbite 2 and is straight lifting a lot of Battlefield 3's assets. I don't think adding its sales to Battlefield 3 is remotely realistic though.
Are you talking about your own personal expectations or Capcom's? Bottom-line results for Capcom is that the the dev team working on RE:R worked on both RE:R and Mercs at the same time. This isn't a case of simply sharing assets on a different game after the fact, or reusing a previous engine on a new game at a later date. This was the same dev team working on two games at the same time, no doubt on a single budget.

For Capcom's bottom-line results, they got two games out of a single development budget at the same period of time - and for their bottom line, those games have to be added together to determine if that development budget was successful or not.


Capcom had expectations of 1.5 million units for Dragon's Dogma worldwide. The game has been worked on for 3-4 years by a team of 150 people. However, Capcom has also revealed that their hopes for the title are much higher, especially in Japan where they say "But in Japan, we can absolutely sell a million units."

If the game hits 1.5 million units worldwide, it will have hit Capcom's official expectations. That doesn't mean that the game was a good investment, and it doesn't mean that it hit anywhere near what they were hoping it might do.

Did Capcom make Revelations a tentpole to their financial projections? No, but that doesn't mean their aspirations weren't higher or that the game was a good investment choice relative to spending its budget on other titles.
Come on now, Nirolak. That's not Capcom expecting 10 million units for Dragon's Dogma, that's the producer hoping that his game does well and saying some stupid shit.

Believe me, if Capcom had expected big sales for RE:R, it would have appeared on their projections somewhere along the line. It didn't. I realize that you seem to have expected big sales for it, but it seems pretty clear to me that Capcom didn't have the same expectations that you had.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Are you talking about your own personal expectations or Capcom's? Bottom-line results for Capcom is that the the dev team working on RE:R worked on both RE:R and Mercs at the same time. This isn't a case of simply sharing assets on a different game after the fact, or reusing a previous engine on a new game at a later date. This was the same dev team working on two games at the same time, no doubt on a single budget.

For Capcom's bottom-line results, they got two games out of a single development budget at the same period of time - and for their bottom line, those games have to be added together to determine if that development budget was successful or not.
Your argument is still not making sense here. They finalized a product, then proceeded to ship another. It doesn't matter if we call them the same team and budget both products at the same time because they're shipping different products.

We can switch to Assassin's Creed if you prefer a more similar situation. Revelations started and ended development during the development of Assassin's Creed 3, and is being worked on by many of the same studios and people. That does not make it getting two games for the price of one.

Come on now, Nirolak. That's not Capcom expecting 10 million units for Dragon's Dogma, that's the producer hoping that his game does well and saying some stupid shit.

Believe me, if Capcom had expected big sales for RE:R, it would have appeared on their projections somewhere along the line. It didn't. I realize that you seem to have expected big sales for it, but it seems pretty clear to me that Capcom didn't have the same expectations that you had.
Unlike the words you're trying to put in my mouth, I never said they were, just that they are clearly showing that they have aspirations well beyond 1.5 million copies.

Do you think the sales of Asura's Wrath are solid just because they never listed expectations for it?
 

nordique

Member
If RE:R can score half a million worldwide, is it really a failure?

Seems pretty good for a handheld title.


We don't know for sure exactly how much $ it cost,but I doubt it was anywhere near RE5 (or RE4 for that matter)
 

Wazzim

Banned
If RE:R can score half a million worldwide, is it really a failure?

Seems pretty good for a handheld title.


We don't know for sure exactly how much $ it cost,but I doubt it was anywhere near RE5 (or RE4 for that matter)
That's really bad no matter how you look at it.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
A million would be just decent for RE.Revelations. 1.5 millions would be good.
 
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