The nightmares of my Act 3 run for the Big Boss Emblem has me disagree. MGS4 is great, Acts 1, 2, and 4 are phenomenal, plus the most extensive CQC out of all the series entries. But I gotta say no.
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Metal Gear jumped the shark after MGS 4
- Thread starter Trumpets
- Start date
The nightmares of my Act 3 run for the Big Boss Emblem has me disagree. MGS4 is great, Acts 1, 2, and 4 are phenomenal, plus the most extensive CQC out of all the series entries. But I gotta say no.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
After MGS? Sure.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
What the actual fuck? This was seriously a mission in one of those games?Oh fuck it really is, I forgot
For anyone who didn't play MG2:SS, you hatch a fully-grown genetically modified owl that hoots during the day.
You bring it with you to a POW encampment with guards and a laser gate, and the hooting tricks the guards into thinking it's night, so they shut off the laser gate and leave the gate unattended and go to sleep
Tricks them into thinking it's night during the day
Leave camp unguarded from intruders
Think it's a good idea to leave the camp unguarded during the night in the first place
Videogames
Kojima
KyanMehwulfe
Member
i felt this sort of inspired the 'play out loud' feature of tapes in MGS V haha always thought the howl should have been in MGS V like the bathroom one or the sheep sounds
owl hooting cassette tape - causes guards to go sleep in a tent
Bolivar687
Banned
It's the opposite of jumping the shark to me, de-emphasizing the sweeping Pentagon conspiracies and instead focusing on soldiers of fortune in local conflicts during the Cold War.
^ this is an extraordinarily counter-intuitive sentence.
^ this is an extraordinarily counter-intuitive sentence.
Haunted
Member
Most perfect first reply I've seen in a while.
Octavianus
Banned
Yeah that game is pretty great.
The arm possessed Ocelot made sense in a world, where Psycho Mantis, Vamp and The Sorrow existed as Supernatural elements. "Everything are Nanomachines" explanation in MGS4 actually made the part wired. Now Ocelot was simply acting like Liquid to fool the Patriots. How do Ocelot try to convince them, if the world of MGS4 is much more mundane (except Psycho Mantis). This is much more illogical then a acutally possessed Ocelot in the original Metal Gear Soild Trilogy.
toddhunter
Member
It is.
Unfortunately it is also two of the worst games ever made in the same package. Such is the trend of AAA gaming.
MGS4 was pretty much the same. The first two chapters were amazing, the rest was garbage and the whole thing was wrapped up alongside those completely absurd loading and install times.
mgs4 jumped the shark. something thats very difficult to do with a series as ridiculous as MGS.
Kojima felt a need to explain everything, rather than just leave things as supernatural and unexplained, this ruined many elements of of the plot making it waaaaaaay more convoluted than it needed to be.
also stupid raiden cyborg ( though im glad it happened for rising to be a thing)
Kojima felt a need to explain everything, rather than just leave things as supernatural and unexplained, this ruined many elements of of the plot making it waaaaaaay more convoluted than it needed to be.
also stupid raiden cyborg ( though im glad it happened for rising to be a thing)
AudioEppa
Member
Is jumping the shark what you call MGS4?
Then whoever makes feature metal gear games (give it time) they better find that goddamn shark and jump over it again, and few more extra times.
Over the top story. 10 hours in total cutscenes. Beautiful graphics. Leaner stealth gameplay. Minimum heavy shootouts and Epic boss fights is what the next game better bring, or i'll avoid it like avoiding someone with a nasty V-irus.
Then whoever makes feature metal gear games (give it time) they better find that goddamn shark and jump over it again, and few more extra times.
Over the top story. 10 hours in total cutscenes. Beautiful graphics. Leaner stealth gameplay. Minimum heavy shootouts and Epic boss fights is what the next game better bring, or i'll avoid it like avoiding someone with a nasty V-irus.
Bl@de
Member
Hehe. So true. Metal Gear jumped the shark after Metal Gear Solid 1.
Cropduster89
Neo Member
MGS3 was the last great game.
I hated 4, the cut scenes actually made me cringe, and the gameplay was a huge step down from 3, and kind of just became your bog standard current gen affair. All returning characters were treated with a sickening level of fan service and all the new characters were totally forgettable.
Fullon fan-fiction nonsense. I was so angry (but I'm over it now honest).
The Rex vs Ray fight was awesome, but fuck it wasn't worth it.
Buuut MGS2 wanted you to hate it, so it's instantly the best. Maybe you just need scissors.
I hated 4, the cut scenes actually made me cringe, and the gameplay was a huge step down from 3, and kind of just became your bog standard current gen affair. All returning characters were treated with a sickening level of fan service and all the new characters were totally forgettable.
Fullon fan-fiction nonsense. I was so angry (but I'm over it now honest).
The Rex vs Ray fight was awesome, but fuck it wasn't worth it.
Buuut MGS2 wanted you to hate it, so it's instantly the best. Maybe you just need scissors.
SolidChamp
Banned
I gotta agree with the OP on this.
JimmyRustler
Member
The series jumped shark after MGS1. MGS2 and 3 were still acceptable to some point but MGS4 was a total mess.
I never understood the need for these extreme supernatural elements. Totally ruined the otherwise great story.
I never understood the need for these extreme supernatural elements. Totally ruined the otherwise great story.
SentientStone
Member
MGS4 was when they jumped the shark in my books.
A million times this
Now I'm mad this owl never came back.Oh fuck it really is, I forgot
For anyone who didn't play MG2:SS, you hatch a fully-grown genetically modified owl that hoots during the day.
You bring it with you to a POW encampment with guards and a laser gate, and the hooting tricks the guards into thinking it's night, so they shut off the laser gate and leave the gate unattended and go to sleep
Tricks them into thinking it's night during the day
Leave camp unguarded from intruders
Think it's a good idea to leave the camp unguarded during the night in the first place
Videogames
Kojima
GrantDaNasty
Member
AFTER 4?
I still consider it (4) bottom tier in terms of the main series games.
Kojima clearly had some grand ambitions for 4, but if people are outraged about half-cooked plots and concepts from TPP, then MGS 4 should spark a fucking nuclear war.
The most enjoyment I got out of that game was the fanservice it provides. It is the DEFINITION of jumping the shark.
I still consider it (4) bottom tier in terms of the main series games.
Kojima clearly had some grand ambitions for 4, but if people are outraged about half-cooked plots and concepts from TPP, then MGS 4 should spark a fucking nuclear war.
The most enjoyment I got out of that game was the fanservice it provides. It is the DEFINITION of jumping the shark.
RULES OF NATUREEEEEEE
DerZuhälter
Member
Metal Gear jumped the shark with fucking Metal Gear Survivor.
If you think it jumped the shark before than we need to find a new term for what it is doing now!
If you think it jumped the shark before than we need to find a new term for what it is doing now!
Just want to clarify the "zombies" in MGSV:
The ones in Mission 43 are the results of the wolbachia mutation. Essentially, the parasites just want their hosts to go outside so the birds can feed on them and spread them around the world. Any aggression is just them trying to overcome anything in their way. It forces Venom into a situation where he has to kill his own Mother Base family in order to prevent a global catastrophe.
The only other entities resembling zombies are the puppet soldiers, but this is more like a Psycho Mantis-style mind control, only using weaponized parasites that are controlled in a way similar to The Pain's bees. They take over a host and allow a Skull to control them. In other words, they're fighting at the behest of the Skulls.
The parasites, in general, are proto-nanomachines, for better or worse.
The ones in Mission 43 are the results of the wolbachia mutation. Essentially, the parasites just want their hosts to go outside so the birds can feed on them and spread them around the world. Any aggression is just them trying to overcome anything in their way. It forces Venom into a situation where he has to kill his own Mother Base family in order to prevent a global catastrophe.
The only other entities resembling zombies are the puppet soldiers, but this is more like a Psycho Mantis-style mind control, only using weaponized parasites that are controlled in a way similar to The Pain's bees. They take over a host and allow a Skull to control them. In other words, they're fighting at the behest of the Skulls.
The parasites, in general, are proto-nanomachines, for better or worse.
Bl@de
Member
This is true. But I think MGS V (overall) >>>>>>>> All other Metal Gears combined x 10,43
Transistor
Banned
Well that was easy
Yeah, MGSV is definitely my favorite, but playing through them all the past month, they all have something to offer.
breakfuss
Member
lol yeah the closest this series has ever come to being grounded was the first and maybe the third. Two and four are fucking nuts lol but I still love them dearly.
V is awful. Not a true MGS game.
Adam_Vania
Banned
the problem w MG is that far-fetched events largely comprise all stories across the series. Kojima seems to imagine it as a futuristic/science fiction version of a hyper reality patterned after the US action movie milieu. some people think anything outside of this genre applies but it is important to consider a US-centric cultural bias when looking at something created in a different country. it is very ungenerous to say that they cannot use anime or manga influences because they are a novelty to those in the west, as the game creators grew up in that culture, reading those things as kids, being exposed to different influences than many people who end up playing their Metal Gear games.
so where do you draw the line? especially w a series so based around culture clashes, where novelty often seems like it's the driving force? i guess it's down to personal preference. imo the story went off the rails, jumped the shark in MGS2, which i see as Kojima's punk rock album, the time when he grabbed the wheel of the car and forced it into a ditch, trying to end the series.
MGS2 both mocks the idea that anyone should take ANY of this series and it also takes itself extremely seriously w all of the philosophizing about abstract theories in the last 3rd of the game. true they had done this before - a good example being Huey's anti-nukes speech in MGS - but it was usually about still relatable, concrete, military action movie type lore. MGS2's main subject seemed not to be this military action movie stuff but the video game series itself. imo the shark jumping moment is when you end up in the digestive tract of a Metal Gear. this is a hilarious use of figurative language -- you are inside the ARSEnal Gear. you are travelling through the colon. you are figuratively a piece of shit just running around inside a Metal Gear's bowels. fucking hilarious.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
1 was a PHENOMINAL leap forward in certain directions in game design (voice acting, cutscene direction, etc)
2 has shook out to be one of the most meta and prognositicating games in history, looking forward to things that couldn't be in 2001, and giving us a look back at something that cannot occur again in the current day.
3 was much tighter in story, much more adventurous in game flow, and had a wonderous rogue's gallery of bosses.
4 is where the wheels come off. All that zany Hollywood-Meets-Anime political thriller/military porn of the first 3 has spectacular failures attempting even the simplest and basest of theming, the balance of narrative and gameplay goes completely out-of-whack, and never stops self-sabotaging. If it's taking a piss, it's failing miserably. If it's being serious and legitimate, it's failing miserably. It's the worst of both worlds. This is where the shark jumping occurs and the only way the serious could be took seriously is...
5 is half a game, but that half is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal goooooooooooooooooood and is in some wierd way the complete opposite of every one before it, even though the first 4 are shockingly different from themselves, somehow.
2 has shook out to be one of the most meta and prognositicating games in history, looking forward to things that couldn't be in 2001, and giving us a look back at something that cannot occur again in the current day.
3 was much tighter in story, much more adventurous in game flow, and had a wonderous rogue's gallery of bosses.
4 is where the wheels come off. All that zany Hollywood-Meets-Anime political thriller/military porn of the first 3 has spectacular failures attempting even the simplest and basest of theming, the balance of narrative and gameplay goes completely out-of-whack, and never stops self-sabotaging. If it's taking a piss, it's failing miserably. If it's being serious and legitimate, it's failing miserably. It's the worst of both worlds. This is where the shark jumping occurs and the only way the serious could be took seriously is...
5 is half a game, but that half is reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal goooooooooooooooooood and is in some wierd way the complete opposite of every one before it, even though the first 4 are shockingly different from themselves, somehow.
qualitydisc
Member
This guy gets it.
Everything after 3 was drivel, I swear Kojima was just trolling with 4, PW and 5. MGS has always been high-camp with overly convoluted plots but the later games went to deranged extremes, either Kojima went up his own arse or he just stopped caring about the quality of the product and threw in any old shit.
MegaSackman
Member
Sorry but I blame MGS2, the ending of 2 was the death of the story of the franchise. MGS4 was doomed before it happens.
Pinko Marx
Banned
You're right but for the wrong reason. No game was supposed to game after 2 in the timeline.
DrunkShogun
Member
Mgs 2 was when crazy plot started to appear. Think mgs4 was when kojima struggled to go bizzare without either referring to older games or having a weaker bizzare element. Mgs4 was the best goodbye we could have had so I can agree it would have been better to stop there.
darkwing-buck
Member
I thought everyone knew MGS was basically anime.
Telephone Man
Member
As stupid (and I mean reeaaally stupid) 4 is, the series has definitely lost its charm after it.
Peace Walker's plot and characters are far less interesting and made its already weak gameplay even less fun to go through.
5 was close to bringing back some of that charm with a far better cast (Ocelot and Quiet both sucked though), but the plot just wasn't there. It fell apart halfway in and clearly wasn't done. Not gonna fault Kojima for that though.
Plus I had other issues with it like the small amount of cutscenes, Snake rarely talking in them, only having 1 real bossfight, etc.
Peace Walker's plot and characters are far less interesting and made its already weak gameplay even less fun to go through.
5 was close to bringing back some of that charm with a far better cast (Ocelot and Quiet both sucked though), but the plot just wasn't there. It fell apart halfway in and clearly wasn't done. Not gonna fault Kojima for that though.
Plus I had other issues with it like the small amount of cutscenes, Snake rarely talking in them, only having 1 real bossfight, etc.
ForsakenLotus
Member
I love the Metal Gear Solid franchise, but let's be honest - Kojima jumped the shark with every game after the first one. You could even make the argument that the first Metsl Gear Solid jumped the shark.
Metal Gear came out the womb jumping sharks. 4 is just like supremely extremely stupid for Kojima, but his games always had super dumb stories, and usually with bad writing. MGS4 is just way too much fan pandering nonsense, and some of Kojima's worst gameplay ideas after the first two acts.
MrChocolate
Member
It is not the best, but it's very good. Pure fan service from beginning to end.
