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[Trumpets]

With Metal Gear Solid 4, Kojima managed the almost impossible task of tying up most of the loose ends from the previous mainline games (MG 1&2, MGS 1-3), and created a satisfying conclusion to a silly, fun, rambling plot that had coagulated over the previous 20 years. Old Snake hobbled off into the distance and the series was OVER.

But Kojima just couldn't leave well alone. He started looking for gaps in the MG timeline big enough for him to stuff more games into, and so we ended up with Peace Walker, Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain, all set in the 70s and 80s.

Now, I understand that some people like these games, but as someone who enjoyed the series for the story as much as the playing of it, that whole loose trilogy does nothing that I want from MGS.

Paz, Chico and the shitty Phantom Pain versions of Master Miller and Ocelot are all bad, and the more Kojima tried to write and direct in a more 'mature' style the worse he got, culminating in the narrative shit-show that is Phantom Pain. And I don't buy this idea that GZ and TPP play way better than the earlier games, because I certainly didn't enjoy them half as much as the old Splinter Cells.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

After?

 

[xxracerxx]

After?

And we done.

 

[Kyoufu]

Did you not play MGS3?

 

[Mr. Poolman]

Metal Gear jumped the shark after MGS 3

 

[Killyoh]

MGS jumped the shark since the first game man.

 

[Peanut0423]

Nah. Peace Walker was amazing.

 

[Nephtes]

After?

Seconded.

 

[Tagyhag]

and created a satisfying conclusion to a silly, fun, rambling plot that had coagulated over the previous 20 years.

We'll just agree to disagree.

He concluded it, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Maxim726X]

After?

.

Look, I love me some MGS4. But that shit was insane.

 

[Crossing Eden]

GZ and TPP definitely play a hell out of a lot better than the older MGS games, you have one more control over Snake and the gameplay mechanics are way less binary and restrictive. That much is a given, speaking of, Metal Gear jumped the shark the moment a fucking arm possessed Ocelot because nanomachines son.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

After?

Exactly what I thought. While nowhere near the genius of the original trilogy, PW and V had better stories than 4. 4 was fanservice incarnate.

 

[Syril]

We got Rising out of it so I'm good.

 

[brawly]

That's what makes MGS great and 5 a bad MGS game.

 

[Toa TAK]

GZ and TPP definitely play a hell out of a lot better than the older MGS games, you have one more control over Snake and the gameplay mechanics are way less binary and restrictive. That much is a given, speaking of, Metal Gear jumped the shark the moment a fucking arm possessed Ocelot because nanomachines son.

I will never get over this.

 

[Robot Pants]

After?

And we done.

Yep. Perfect hahaha

 

[Brat-Sampson]

MGS was born riding a shark.

Survivors will be where it falls off and gets bloodily eaten.

 

[Platy]

3 is awesome, but ...

 

[Vampirolol]

Phantom Pain Ocelot shuts the fuck up so it's kinda better than the MGS4 one.

 

[Rymuth]

Fukushima did his best to keep Kojima rooted to the ground, then he left and Kojima be like---

 

[Lothars]

Exactly what I thought. While nowhere near the genius of the original trilogy, PW and V had better stories than 4. 4 was fanservice incarnate.

4 was just as good any of the games in the original trilogy.

 

[xxracerxx]

3 is awesome, but ...

Technically that would be jumping the missile.

 

[Protome]

To this day MGS4 is the most disappointing game I've ever played. Such a massive decline in quality from its predecessors and then the games which followed at least managed to improve the gameplay if not the story.

At least Phantom Pain's shorter story meant we didn't get shit like the awful wedding scene from MGS4 or something on par with

Spoiler

Big Boss, a man who had been dead for decades, showing up and conveniently tying up all the loose ends together.

I love the MGS story and was also disappointed with how lacking MGSV was in that department but lets not pretend that MGS4's story was anything better just because there was more of it.

 

[BassForever]

The plot of MGS went off the rails in MGS2, MGS3 was a good return to form, then MGS4 when off the rails even further.

 

[kewlmyc]

Wasn't MGS4 absurd as all hell?

 

[Jawmuncher]

After?

Yeah, I can't take anyone serious if they say the series didn't jump the shark before 4.

 

[WickedLaharl]

 

[Vampirolol]

Technically that would be jumping the missile.

Boom

 

[Alienous]

MGS1-MGS3 were quirky. MGS4 was a rambling crazy mess, and only Ground Zeroes managed to stay conherent after that point.

MGS4 jumped the shark with glee.

 

[brawly]

Technically that would be jumping the missile.

damn

 

[Crossing Eden]

I do agree that the more "mature" the stories got the worse they became, holy shit I will never get over how misogynistic MGSV's story is and that Kojima tried to say shit like this:

“If we don’t cross that line, if we don’t make attempts to express what we really want to express, games will only be games,” he said.

“If we don’t try to go beyond that, we won’t be able to achieve what movies or novels have achieved. I didn’t want to stay away from these things that could be considered sensitive. If we don’t go that far, games will never be considered as culture.”

Vagina nukes, borderline nude mute snipers, and some of the most voyeuristic cinematography i've ever seen in recent game media is NOT how games are gonna be considered culture Kojima.

 

[NZerker12]

After? Hahahaha. No.

MGS3 had a guy who can control and shoot hornets, a guy who can dislocate and relocate his limps and can run and jump around trees, a guy who when defeated turns into a giant fireball, a guy who can use photosynthesis, a guy who is a ghost and has ESP and a guy who can control and use electricity.

So honestly Kojima jumped the shark years ago and thats why we all love Metal Gear because its batshit crazy. If anything I found the games after MGS4 more grounded than the previous games.

 

[Indignate]

When you guys say original trilogy what is it that you mean

 

[Primethius]

After?

.

 

[xxracerxx]

Boom

damn

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Hey I agree. None of what's in these post-MGS4 games has any bearing on 1-4 and so they've been easy to ignore. Too bad the fanbase scared Kojima off from introducing a new character a la 2 to continue the future timeline instead retconning the shit out of BB and his crew.

 

[Easy_D]

Metal Gear is a series about jumping the shark and exceeding your wildest expectations at every turn, it's in its very core.

 

[-griffy-]

After?

 

[Vampirolol]

And I will NEVER stop loving that scene.

 

[Drayco21]

It feels like the series jumped the shark from the first Solid game to me. It was all dumb anime bullshit from then on.

Fun ridiculous dumb anime bullshit sure, but 4 felt like a pretty natural continuation of the previous game's stupid.

 

[Stevey]

All of the games are fucking bonkers.

 

[Sephzilla]

Metal Gear from birth was always on the side of the shark you land in after you jump it.

 

[-shadow-]

The series jumped the missle as stated above me far before 4 ever happened. And honestly, I absolutely love it!

 

[BennyBlanco]

After?

first post best post

 

[Schlorgan]

Metal Gear from birth was always on the side of the shark you land in after you jump it.

.

 

[BocoDragon]

I can see the point. Though I don't like a lot about MGS4, it did wrap up the entire saga. Then PW+V ripped it open again and left some stuff unfinished (ie the fate of Liquid after V).

 

[TemplaerDude]

Metal Gear is the shark.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

It amuses me that people call out 4's story and say "Nah man, 4 ruined it... It's all about the original trilogy." As if Metal Gear Solid 2's batshit insane story never happened.

I agree with the OP. It should have been left alone after 4. The Phanton Pain should have been a new IP.

 

[John Kowalski]

fuck

this dithering is severely dehydrating me

 

[Espada]

MGS1-MGS3 were quirky. MGS4 was a rambling crazy mess, and only Ground Zeroes managed to stay conherent after that point.

MGS4 jumped the shark with glee.

I think this is a good summary of the series. MGS4 was the first game in the series where the industry went from showering the games (and Kojima) with effusive praise to being increasingly critical of them.