Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Could someone please post that mgs4 meme with big boss talking to solid explaining the story with kojima asking if you like at the end. I need to save that it's comedy gold.
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Metal Gear jumped the shark after MGS 4
- Thread starter Trumpets
- Start date
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
At this point I consider everything after 4 a non-canon sidestory. Warts and all, 1-4 tell a complete arc with no significant loose ends. Unexplored territory, sure, but I don't need to know every single thing that happens in a fictional timeline. Kojima felt like he needed to keep topping himself and ended up shitting all over his own continuity with The Big Boss Adventures. It probably wouldn't have been that way if he'd been allowed to walk away from Metal Gear like he wanted for so long.
EDIT: Also, while I find MGS4 to be the weakest of the core series by a wide margin, it still has some of the best moments in the franchise and I wouldn't trade those for anything.
EDIT: Also, while I find MGS4 to be the weakest of the core series by a wide margin, it still has some of the best moments in the franchise and I wouldn't trade those for anything.
Because Kojima thought it sounded like a good name for an early 20s double agent pretending to be a teenager in order to steal a giant robot that she secretly built a cockpit into that requires its pilot to use a scuba tank and be in their bathing suit.
thesolidshark
Member
I guess this is one of the top first posts of the year, and partly explains why I love the series so much.
Since, and actually even before MGS1, Metal Gear was just crazy interesting to me. Gameplay was great, story was great, the ideas and concepts they used were great. I have to agree with those who think that MG was more likely the shark itself, possibly with the exception of the first. Years ago I would've made an argument that at overall, 2 and 4, it jumped the shark, and that's probably why those two were among my top favorites in the series, but I don't think there's one that I didn't like; I even love going back to Portable Ops and Snake's Revenge on occasion.
I understand it's a matter of taste for which ones are supposed to be the highlight of the series. I'm definitely at odds with a majority of GAF for not liking 3 as much as most fans (still fun and interesting, but I have a few issues with it), but as I've said before in threads like this, one thing I love about the series is how it's all narratively connected, but each title goes after it's own style, no matter who made it (Kojima-directed or not), or what gameplay/story theme it went after. Basically, for all the pros and cons, I'm glad the series never got stale for me.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
A mutation of the vocal parasites caused by sabotage to the platforms X-ray scanners. That's not the language parasites at work. Your base gets infected with one of the language parasites earlier in the game, and you don't see anything like that happen.
I'll admit, that scene specifically is pretty weird. However, The rest of that episode really doesn't play out like a zombie episode.
Death Metalist
Member
I still don't get some of the hate for MGS4. That shit was some dramatic, beautiful insanity mixed in with a stunning score and some of the most memorable moments to feature in a game that has a long ass history. I mean the fact that people STILL talk about it shows it's impact, where it's in a positive or negative light.
oneofthose
Banned
it jumped after 1
Lion Heart
Banned
4 is damn near perfect, but Kojima has always been inconsistent. MGS2 was a real let down after the brilliant MGS but 3 and 4 really engraved the series as an all time great. MGS5 once again left the series on a sour note.
Jawbreaker
Member
Metal Gear Solid 4 amplified everything I love about the series.
lol.
This was my first thought after reading the thread title. After?
Yeah, it was nearly perfect for me aside from the installs when switching acts (which I know is no longer an issue thanks to a patch), and the tons of repeated info in act 3.
Pinko Marx
Banned
The only good thing about MGS4 is that we got Cyberninja Raiden and through that MG:Rising.
The ONLY thing.
The ONLY thing.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Besides the slow walking through the bloody hallways with a bunch of infected people, it's very influenced by zombie media that they should've just cut out the middle man and have bites be the cause for the infection spreading.
I absolutely knew this would be the first post... Well done.
It didn't jump the shark. After 4, MGS just became something different that some fans might not have liked. Personally I think Peace Walker and MGSV have the best core gameplay systems in the whole series. Portable Ops was a fun prototype.
MGS4 had the beginnings of the new core control system but the level design never made good use of it. Messing around with MGS4's weapons and the general combat systems on subsequent playthroughs is actually really fun.
MGS3 however still had the best scenarios, pacing, and possibly even writing. It was just stuck with the old control scheme which didn't really fit it. My ideal MGS would be just MGS3 updated with controls more resembling MGS4 or 5.
MGS4 had the beginnings of the new core control system but the level design never made good use of it. Messing around with MGS4's weapons and the general combat systems on subsequent playthroughs is actually really fun.
MGS3 however still had the best scenarios, pacing, and possibly even writing. It was just stuck with the old control scheme which didn't really fit it. My ideal MGS would be just MGS3 updated with controls more resembling MGS4 or 5.
staticneuron
Member
So he really was possessed? When did Kojima state this? Did I miss this in game. I thought it was all a rouse.
And Jumping the shark is the wrong term to use here
If the series has been crazy from the start then how can there be a moment where it jumps the shark?
Pinko Marx
Banned
MGS1: Solid Snake, the clone of a super soldier believes that the genes passed down to him makes him destined to live a life of war and bloodshed. By the end of the game he becomes determined to not let his genes dictate his the direction of his life.
MGS2: Raiden, the adopted child of a (clone of a) super soldier believes that the memes (that is the ideas and beliefs) passed down to him make him destined for a life of war and bloodshed. By the end of the game he becomes determined not to let his memes dictate the direction of his life.
MGS4: Solid Snake is a bitter old man that believes he's an old killer only good to do some wet work.
Raiden is a Cyberninja who ran away from his family because he was afraid of the blood hungry killer that rested inside of him.
🙄
MGS2: Raiden, the adopted child of a (clone of a) super soldier believes that the memes (that is the ideas and beliefs) passed down to him make him destined for a life of war and bloodshed. By the end of the game he becomes determined not to let his memes dictate the direction of his life.
MGS4: Solid Snake is a bitter old man that believes he's an old killer only good to do some wet work.
Raiden is a Cyberninja who ran away from his family because he was afraid of the blood hungry killer that rested inside of him.
🙄
I disagree entirely with this notion, if we're going by the definition of fanservice as "bringing back stuff people liked for flimsy reason".
MGS4 brought back stuff all right, but it did so in the most destructive and spiteful way possible. I want to believe this was done entirely on purpose as a "fuck you" to the idea of sequels, not unlike MGS2 but on a much meaner scope.
Loved it.
Madrugador
Member
MGS4 was ridiculous.
It felt so insanely stupid. Fun to play though, but it was such a disappointment for me.
It felt so insanely stupid. Fun to play though, but it was such a disappointment for me.
As someone currently playing through the entire series back to back, I think the post-MGS4 stories (PW, GZ, TPP) add a lot of meaningful content, thematically speaking. I also think the entire series is much more coherent than people are saying.
The issue I take with the MGS series is how the story is told in certain installments — with MGS4 being the narrative nadir (read: absolute worst) of the series. The cutscenes are bloated to the point of absurdity, full of mind-numbingly repetitive information. They completely kill the pacing, making the whole experience feel uneven and unwieldy. I have no idea what Kojima was thinking with making Drebin's introduction so long; as with many scenes in MGS4, it could've (and should've) been relegated to optional codec calls.
And while I normally detest the word "cringe" on GAF (because the people who use it come off as try-hards and sourpusses), I have to say MGS4 was full of countless cringeworthy moments that were borderline painful to watch. Please, Kojima, I don't see need to see a sick soldier repeatedly shit his pants, or hear Otacon fake-cry over a laptop. I don't need to repeatedly see EVA's 80-year-old tits. I also don't need 10-20 minutes of Frogs getting shot over and over by Meryl and Johnny on Arsenal Gear, or mercs getting shot over and over on the river in Eastern Europe. You only need one or two minutes to establish the concept that people are being shot.
At any rate... MGS4 does have one or two well-earned emotional moments, with BB's dying words "Maybe the world would be better off without snakes... This is good, isn't it," being one of the most powerful scenes in the entire series. But bear in mind it's preceded by a PowerPoint presentation, etc.
MGS4 seriously needed an editor.
The issue I take with the MGS series is how the story is told in certain installments — with MGS4 being the narrative nadir (read: absolute worst) of the series. The cutscenes are bloated to the point of absurdity, full of mind-numbingly repetitive information. They completely kill the pacing, making the whole experience feel uneven and unwieldy. I have no idea what Kojima was thinking with making Drebin's introduction so long; as with many scenes in MGS4, it could've (and should've) been relegated to optional codec calls.
And while I normally detest the word "cringe" on GAF (because the people who use it come off as try-hards and sourpusses), I have to say MGS4 was full of countless cringeworthy moments that were borderline painful to watch. Please, Kojima, I don't see need to see a sick soldier repeatedly shit his pants, or hear Otacon fake-cry over a laptop. I don't need to repeatedly see EVA's 80-year-old tits. I also don't need 10-20 minutes of Frogs getting shot over and over by Meryl and Johnny on Arsenal Gear, or mercs getting shot over and over on the river in Eastern Europe. You only need one or two minutes to establish the concept that people are being shot.
At any rate... MGS4 does have one or two well-earned emotional moments, with BB's dying words "Maybe the world would be better off without snakes... This is good, isn't it," being one of the most powerful scenes in the entire series. But bear in mind it's preceded by a PowerPoint presentation, etc.
MGS4 seriously needed an editor.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
Sure, but I like the balance they have. The fact that all the soldiers in that sequence are still human is what gives it weight. If you make them all have cravings to bite each other, then it makes them more monstrous than human.
Anyway, this entire thing was just me pointing out that Skull Face's world destroying plan had nothing to do with a zombie apocalypse. The "zombie" stuff was all a result of Huey being a shitheel.
The worst moment in this entire series definitely has to be that Meryl and Johnny scene with the frogs.Neiteio;217565504 And while I normally detest the word "cringe" on GAF (because the people who use it come off as try-hards and sourpusses) said:
Kojima literally put a Mr. and Mrs. Smith scene at the end. Not only was he referencing a terrible movie, the entire scene makes absolutely no sense. Both characters are suddenly super humans and can take bullets like no tomorrow. This is also after Kojima established Johnny to be a completely worthless soldier at every turn.
Fuck MGS4, it's the bad kind of stupid.
MGS4 started off promising, but then turned into bad internet fan fiction by the end. There is a wedding between a main character and a joke character we saw for like a second in the previous games. A wedding. In my crazy tactical espionage action game featuring telepaths, vampires, cyborg ninjas, mechs, and nuclear cold war. I couldn't do enough face palms or eye rolls to fully express my thoughts towards what I was seeing.
There are other things in that game too but the wedding, well, it takes the... erm... wedding cake.
There are other things in that game too but the wedding, well, it takes the... erm... wedding cake.
How About No
Member
p much...but some jumps are worse than others
The owl puzzle was worse than that man
timetokill
Banned
First thought seeing the thread title. 4 was pretty much rocket jumping the shark.
Kojima: "you will be ashamed of your words and deeds"
How About No
Member
The owl puzzle was worse than that man
Oh fuck it really is, I forgot
For anyone who didn't play MG2:SS, you hatch a fully-grown genetically modified owl that hoots during the day.
You bring it with you to a POW encampment with guards and a laser gate, and the hooting tricks the guards into thinking it's night, so they shut off the laser gate and leave the gate unattended and go to sleep
Tricks them into thinking it's night during the day
Leave camp unguarded from intruders
Think it's a good idea to leave the camp unguarded during the night in the first place
Videogames
Kojima
Hahaha, this is fucking amazing
Guard 1: "Well time to go to bed"
Guard 2: "But it's still daytime"
Guard 1: "No it's not jackass, I hear an owl hooting"
Guard 2: "But what about the giant ball of fire in the sky"
Guard 1: "Owl trumps sun, my friend"
family_guy
Member
Just play 1 and 3 and mentally suppress the rest.
I feel asleep.
Ah yes, MGS3, where one man has lightning powers for reasons, another spits out bees, and yet another is a century-old sniper capable of photosynthesis and speaking to nature.
(Understand I love all of these things, but one's threshold for "jumping the shark" varies and can be readily applied to pretty much any title)
How About No
Member
And MG2 also had a guy whos superpower was running away
And the only way for Snake to get an elderly man who's attacking him by latching onto his back is to fire and direct remote-controlled Nikita missiles into him
He's lucky he'd eventually learn CQC and save on all the wasted ballistics
Metal Gear 2 is secretly the stupidest game in the series
also secretly the best
family_guy
Member
I think those things are more or less in line with stuff that happened with bosses in MGS1. The jumping the shark moment for me are the character assassinations and ridiculous plots. MGS1 and 3 are way more grounded than 2, 4, and 5.
Unknown One
Member
Yeah MGS3 fans always excuse this game for some reason, when it's just as crazy or crazier than the others in the supernatural powers department.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Exactly!
I love when people side-step these very points when complaining about things as trivial as a cartwheel in The Twin Snakes.
Oh don't get me wrong I don't look kindly upon Twin Snakes. It has differences in game design, music, and voice acting that make it a different experience than MGS1. If you like those changes then fair enough but a number of people don't. It's not just the cutscenes that people don't like.
timetokill
Banned
I think Twin Snakes was awesome. Never really understood the hate
Robot Pants
Member
I really really wish I could go back in time and somehow affect MGS4 being made. Could have been great. V COULD have been the best game ever holy shit so much potential.
Both of those I wish got do-overs
Both of those I wish got do-overs