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[akidnamededdy]

Here's an idea: Big Boss is in a coma for nine years. Could other attempts on his life have been made during that time--not just the one that conveniently happens once he wakes up--and the hunk of shrapnel be from that?

Slightly less absurd than the "Gray Fox gets total reconstructive surgery to impersonate Big Boss, for reasons" theory, I think.

 

[Patriot Infinity]

Here's an idea: Big Boss is in a coma for nine years. Could other attempts on his life have been made during that time--not just the one that conveniently happens once he wakes up--and the hunk of shrapnel be from that?

Slightly less absurd than the "Gray Fox gets total reconstructive surgery to impersonate Big Boss, for reasons" theory, I think.

Yeah I mentioned that in my video. There's no way that Big Boss' enemies are making an attempt on his life for the first time coincidentally as he wakes up.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Yeah I mentioned that in my video. There's no way that Big Boss' enemies are making an attempt on his life for the first time coincidentally as he wakes up.

Well then, lol. I'll check it out in the AM.

 

[infinityBCRT]

In regards to Hayter's past performances... I do kind of agree that Hayter's performance as an older version of the same character was a little ridiculous. He got way more gravely in MGS4. I guess I could take that performance, because Snake was probably the equivalent of an 80 year old man by the end of that game. But in Peace Walker, his answer to play a slightly older Big Boss (39 as opposed to 29) was again to add gravel. So remembering that, this quote from Kojima during that last Keighley interview makes a lot of sense:

"Snake is now 49, and I was looking for someone who could realistically convey the feelings of this older, weathered Snake through both his facial expressions and his tone of voice."

 

[Erigu]

Discounting actual, documented quotes from the game's director

*cough* Like you did when you talked about a growing horn? *cough*

I suppose you also discount the interview where Kojima states that the third man in the scene is Kojima himself?

Of course I do. It's amusing that you'd actually buy that.

It's his representation of himself in the game, looking at his own characters and wondering if they (and he) are still alive. Simple as that

"Simple as that!" ^__^;

Ah, but that's just what they want you to think, I suppose. FOLLOW THE MONEY!

It's pretty crazy to imagine that Kojima would try to duck the issue by making some shit up instead of simply telling the interviewer about a twist a full year or so before the game is actually released, indeed.

he also mentions that the horn is made of shrapnel and bone (lol, bone never grows, right?)

Sure, it's pretty common for people to have bone grow out of their skull.

at 12:55 Keighley asks "Playing the entire game as one character?", to which Kojima answers, "Yes, one character".

Instead of honestly replying "two" and hoping really hard nobody would catch that? Crrrrrazy.

 

[Gui_PT]

Still reeling and upset that Hayter isn't the voice I hear in the trailer. He should be the one saying the lines. It feels like a completely different character now.

If he's not in the game somehow as Solid Snake or something I'm just going to play with Japanese voices. I refuse to hear a different American pretending to be Snake, it takes me out of it way too much. Has Ocelot's or Emmerich's voice actors changed too? I'm not sure.

So because you don't want to hear snake with a different american voice, you're going to hear with with a different, japanese voice?

 

[Chinner]

joakim is cgi guys!

do you really think hes real? look at his teeth they clipped! look would really fall for something so simple? hes obviously cgi!

 

[matrix-cat]

Instead of honestly replying "two" and hoping really hard nobody would catch that? Crrrrrazy.

So Kojima is actually lying when directly questioned, to make sure we don't all discover his master plan too soon. Got it.

Look, I freely admit I have no idea what's going on with that horn. In some shots it looks kind of shiny and crystalline, others like bone, others like God-knows-what. It's a weird thing, and I have no good explanation for it. But I don't think anyone else does, either. You seem to be suggesting that the horn means that the fellow in Afghanistan can't possibly be Big Boss, but at the same time you're telling me that whoever this person is is posing as Big Boss, and that's ludicrous. A person with a forehead horn can't accurately impersonate a person without a forehead horn.

What is your timeline here, if you don't mind me asking? Do you agree that the Afghanistan portion of the game is indeed set in 1984, nine years after Big Boss falls into his coma? Do you think that the real Big Boss is still in a coma in 1984, and this new guy is going around pretending to have just woken up? Why did the instigators of this plan to make a Big Boss body double wait nine full years to put the plan into action? More importantly, if the idea of this plan to make a Big Boss body double is to convince the world that Big Boss is still around, why wouldn't you make the body double look exactly like Big Boss? Why the ponytail and the horn?

Compare the sheer depth of this body double theory to the simplicity of what the trailers actually show: Big Boss goes into a coma with a wound in his forehead. He wakes up in 1984 with a horn in that exact place, then he grows a ponytail to complete the ensemble. That's it. No great leaps of logic, no desperate explanations, no directly contradicting the word of the one guy in the world who knows what's going on.

joakim is cgi guys!

do you really think hes real? look at his teeth they clipped! look would really fall for something so simple? hes obviously cgi!

For the record, I was #TeamReal all the way

 

[Gui_PT]

Don't forget that if this is gray fox, they had to remove his eye to look like BB which will have to be put back in before we get to MG1

 

[Screaming Meat]

Look, I freely admit I have no idea what's going on with that horn.

It's shrapnel. Case closed.

 

[Erigu]

So Kojima is actually lying when directly questioned, to make sure we don't all discover his master plan too soon. Got it.

Are you really trying to make that sound outrageous?

You seem to be suggesting that the horn means that the fellow in Afghanistan can't possibly be Big Boss

No, I'm just saying there are good reasons to suspect a switcheroo, there.

Do you think that the real Big Boss is still in a coma in 1984

How would I know? Could be in a coma, could be in hiding for some reason...

and this new guy is going around pretending to have just woken up?

I don't think he would be pretending. I think he would have to actually believe he's Big Boss. And that might just have something to do with this possibly imaginary "Ishmael" guy.

Why did the instigators of this plan to make a Big Boss body double wait nine full years to put the plan into action?

Depends on what that they'd be trying to accomplish, how difficult it would be to turn another guy into a Big Boss double...

[And boy, if you think the double theory is ridiculously far-fetched, I may have far worse right here: what if Kojima is actually *gasp* planning ahead a tiny bit, there? I know, I know. I don't quite think that's likely, myself.
At some point down the road, Big Boss will have to be both back in the States as the Fox Hound commander and at the head of Outer Heaven. And I guess a second Big Boss might actually come in handy, there...]

if the idea of this plan to make a Big Boss body double is to convince the world that Big Boss is still around, why wouldn't you make the body double look exactly like Big Boss? Why the ponytail and the horn?

If Big Boss disappeared from the surface of the Earth for years after his base got attacked, why would people be particularly surprised or suspicious when he comes back with an extra piece of shrapnel and a missing arm?
(... and surely, you can't be serious about the ponytail?)

Compare the sheer depth of this body double theory to the simplicity of what the trailers actually show

The simplicity of Big Boss awakening in a hospital and talking to a mysterious masked guy who sounds exactly like him and seems to be confusing the words "we" and "I". Nothing obviously suspicious, there: simplicity.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Debunked by both Kojima and Hayter.

I understand Japanese, and just like written in the subtitles, all Kojima actually said was that Kiefer would be in both GZ and PP. He did not say which role he'd play.

Also, what would Hayter say? "Yep, I'm in GZ. Sorry Kojima-san, I just couldn't keep my mouth shut."?

I'm not saying he will be, but it does make a lot of sense.

So Kojima is actually lying when directly questioned, to make sure we don't all discover his master plan too soon. Got it.

I sure as hell would be. What's the point in a twist if people know about it?

REMEMBER MGS2.

 

[Erigu]

This is not correct. It looks like Ishmael has a piece of shrapnel under his bandages, not Punished Snake.

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Screenshots, please?

 

[matrix-cat]

OK, guys. We can play the quoting back and forth game some more but I see I'm not going to convince you of anything, so I guess I can only wish you good luck with your theories. I hope you get what you're looking for.

 

[Erigu]

I guess I can only wish you good luck with your theories. I hope you get what you're looking for.

I'm not hoping to get anything in particular in the end. It will be what it will be, and there's nothing to "win". I'm simply explaining why there are reasons to suspect a twist, there.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Screenshots, please?

Yep, you're right. Sorry about that, got my Snake's messed up somehow.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Not sure about Kojima pulling a switcheroo on this occasion. Not totally out of the question, but he only seems to pull that card with Solid Snake.

 

[Erigu]

Not sure about Kojima pulling a switcheroo on this occasion.

I'd rather simply follow Big Boss than a double, myself. I'm not sure the twist would be worth it.

 

[Cyborg]

I watched some video analysis and I personly thing ''Snake'' in MGS V isnt Big Boss we all know.
Who he is, I dont know. But my gues is Gery Fox or Vapor Snake

 

[Chinner]

Don't forget that if this is gray fox, they had to remove his eye to look like BB which will have to be put back in before we get to MG1

erm DUR. obviously it is grey fox, who gets surgical surgery to look like big boss as well as get brain washed to believe he is big boss. OBVIOUSLY before MG1 he gets plastic surgery and becomes grey fox again, and is still best friends with big boss.

open ur mind, why wud things be so simple?

 

[Rickenslacker]

I doubt there's a Big Boss impersonator, but I'm not gonna say that the theory has no merit. Personally I think the Big Boss we see there is just Big Boss and there's nothing more to it. Maybe that'll be the case, maybe not.

But it's not Gray Fox, I can guarantee that, and I don't know how anyone can take that seriously as a concept. That's TeamCG line of thought.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I'd rather simply follow Big Boss than a double, myself. I'm not sure the twist would be worth it.

Same. I don't think he would pull it on BB anyway. Maybe it's just me but Kojima seems, in some weird way, "closer" to BB than he ever was with SS; at times, he almost seems to resent the player liking SS so much. After MGS we never got to canoically play as classic SS (either we were Raiden or a broken down version of Snake), whereas we have played BB in every single Cold War entry.

 

[SeriousApes]

I don't know what all this double theorizing is about. Seems overly convoluted, even for a MGS storyline. I kinda think both Ishmael and Punished Snake could be figments of Big Boss's imagination.

 

[Cyborg]

Guys.......
It could be BB or Gray Fox or even an Third Snake but one thing bothers me. That horn?!!! WTF, even for an MGS universe this is just dumb!

 

[Screaming Meat]

Guys.......
It could be BB or Gray Fox or even an Third Snake but one thing bothers me. That horn?!!! WTF, even for an MGS universe this is just dumb!

It is almost certainly shrapnel. BELIEVE!

I know I'm in the minority, but I think it looks pretty cool... Then again... I liked Old Snake...

 

[Kinyou]

Guys.......
It could be BB or Gray Fox or even an Third Snake but one thing bothers me. That horn?!!! WTF, even for an MGS universe this is just dumb!

Well it is a shrapnel that is stuck in his head. But of course is it no coincidence that it looks like a demon horn. (it's even hinted at in the trailer)

 

[Jackpot]

*cough* Like you did when you talked about a growing horn? *cough*


Of course I do. It's amusing that you'd actually buy that.


"Simple as that!" ^__^;


It's pretty crazy to imagine that Kojima would try to duck the issue by making some shit up instead of simply telling the interviewer about a twist a full year or so before the game is actually released, indeed.


Sure, it's pretty common for people to have bone grow out of their skull.


Instead of honestly replying "two" and hoping really hard nobody would catch that? Crrrrrazy.

I think you're over-thinking this.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Debunked by both Kojima and Hayter.

Just watched the video.

Kojima said "Sutherland will be in both Phantom Pain and Ground Zeroes"

Not "Sutherland will be Snake in both Phantom Pain and Ground Zeroes"

More evidence!!!

Edit: Beaten by Sephiroth,.

 

[Chinner]

lets actually just think about the supposed twist -

grey fox, a clone or just big boss double would replace big boss in the second half of the game. how would this actually benefit the story? it would just devalue it and be a massive waste of way because big boss wouldn't actually develop as a character.

'oh by the way, the entire adventure you've just gone through doesn't really mean anything because you're not actually big boss! surprise! but heres the real big boss and heres the credits!'

i mean putting aside MG ACID (which i think actually did have this plot twist), you can't really say 'kojima is gonna kojima' because frankly about 90% of fan conspiracies are hilariously wrong. you can't really hold up MGS2 because snake and raiden are both independent characters and have complete story arcs.

 

[Gui_PT]

erm DUR. obviously it is grey fox, who gets surgical surgery to look like big boss as well as get brain washed to believe he is big boss. OBVIOUSLY before MG1 he gets plastic surgery and becomes grey fox again, and is still best friends with big boss.

open ur mind, why wud things be so simple?

How could I have been so blind?

 

[hydrophilic attack]

#TeamClone

 

[ichtyander]

lets actually just think about the supposed twist -

grey fox, a clone or just big boss double would replace big boss in the second half of the game. how would this actually benefit the story? it would just devalue it and be a massive waste of way because big boss wouldn't actually develop as a character.

'oh by the way, the entire adventure you've just gone through doesn't really mean anything because you're not actually big boss! surprise! but heres the real big boss and heres the credits!'

i mean putting aside MG ACID (which i think actually did have this plot twist), you can't really say 'kojima is gonna kojima' because frankly about 90% of fan conspiracies are hilariously wrong. you can't really hold up MGS2 because snake and raiden are both independent characters and have complete story arcs.

A lot of people say this, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way.

Say Big Boss goes underground after Mother Base is destroyed, his dreams and ideals shattered, he pretty much gives up on the world.

Then Punished Snake enters the scene, fueled by revenge and all the wrong reasons to fight, alongside a completely cruel and disillusioned Kaz. Punished Snake makes questionable decisions, his actions becoming much more cruel and the world starts to see him as a demon, his horn fueling this image even more. Punished Snake becomes a new legend that will forever change the way the world remembers Big Boss.

And all because Big Boss gave up on the world. All of this is happening because he lost himself, his ideals, his vision. A phantom pain of identity. This doppelganger is an embodiment of everything Big Boss feared he'd become if he didn't go into hiding. But bearing the name Big Boss also bears an enormous responsibility, and by throwing that away he dooms himself and the world, unleashing a deformed demon that arose from a once glorious soldier.

This symbolism of loss, regret and revenge made physical feels like it could be a powerful theme, to me at least. We would be looking at Big Boss' internal struggle, shown through the eyes and actions of a physical embodiment of his worst fears. At the end of MGS5, the actual Big Boss becomes a different person, precisely because of Punished Snake's actions and his own inaction, thus the game having actual character development of Big Boss. And to be perfectly clear, I don't think this doppelganger is Gray Fox.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to play as the actual Big Boss throughout the whole game, and that might very well turn out the be the case. I'm just saying all of this because I love the theories involved in the MGS series, just having fun. But there are a lot of interesting details that hint at a switcheroo, with people in a coma, lost limbs and faces covered in conveniently positioned bandages.

 

[Gui_PT]

That would be horrible

 

[Chinner]

you could just remove the doppleganger and it wouldn't really change anything. it's just needless addition.

 

[Rogue Agent]

I personally think that all these hints serve as red herrings, making us question if this brutal character who's doing questionable things really is Big Boss. Of course, he is the real Big Boss but maybe Kojima wants the player to think if this guy is truly him since he's doing these crazy things - and the nasty truth is that he really is the Big Boss we know and love and that hurts us - causes us phantom pain in seeing this character sink lower and lower

 

[ichtyander]

That would be horrible

It would be like an unintentional (or even intetional) Frankenstein monster created by Big Boss.

But, as I said, I'd love to play as the real Big Boss, that would be absolutely ideal. The addition of the horn and a robotic limb though, make me question if this is really him, as well as the coma and these limbless, bandaged people thrown around. But it could go either way, really.

you could just remove the doppleganger and it wouldn't really change anything. it's just needless addition.

I absolutely agree with this. I'm mentioning a doppelganger only because of some fishy details that have been mentioned over and over in this thread which look pretty fishy to me as well. There are a number of other approaches too, like Big Boss actually planting and programming the doppelganger etc. A doppelganger might also be a convenient way of putting Big Boss at two places at the same time for various reasons, like commanding FoxHound and Outer Heaven simultaneously, but then again, I suppose it can easily be solved with Big Boss working overtime, as other double agents usually do.

I personally think that all these hints serve as red herrings, making us question if this brutal character who's doing questionable things really is Big Boss. Of course, he is the real Big Boss but maybe Kojima wants the player to think if this guy is truly him since he's doing these crazy things - and the nasty truth is that he really is the Big Boss we know and love and that hurts us - causes us phantom pain in seeing this character sink lower and lower

Absolutely, this is a totally, and more probable assumption. The theme of "a different, changed man" is obviously present.

Personally, I think all of these doppelganger theories assume there's a great complicated plot or conspiracy, with a lot of back and forth switching of characters, orchestrated either by Zero or Big Boss himself. And while some may not be that far fetched, they still are much more complicated than just Big Boss being Big Boss. The simplest explanation might very well be the true one, it's just that this is Kojima, and the MGS series are hardly ever simple in terms of the plot.

 

[Screaming Meat]

But, as I said, I'd love to play as the real Big Boss, that would be absolutely ideal. The addition of the horn and a robotic limb though, make me question if this is really him, as well as the coma and these limbless, bandaged people thrown around. But it could go either way, really.

I thought Big Boss had cybernetic limbs in MG2?

 

[matrix-cat]

I personally think that all these hints serve as red herrings

I personally think there are no hints at all, and that Kojima must be constantly baffled by the bizarre theories his fans come up with. "I tricked them all one time twelve years ago and now nobody will take my trailers seriously any more!"

It's like the opposite of the boy who cried wolf, where now the boy can't say anything without all the villagers running for cover

 

[Rogue Agent]

I see what you mean - yeah it could be that too. More likely anyway

 

[Shauni]

I personally think that all these hints serve as red herrings, making us question if this brutal character who's doing questionable things really is Big Boss. Of course, he is the real Big Boss but maybe Kojima wants the player to think if this guy is truly him since he's doing these crazy things - and the nasty truth is that he really is the Big Boss we know and love and that hurts us - causes us phantom pain in seeing this character sink lower and lower

He's Walter Whiting it, man.

 

[Rogue Agent]

Exactly That'd be a nice downfall.

 

[AuthenticM]

He's Walter Whiting it, man.

Yup, Big Boss is breaking bad.

 

[RPGCrazied]

So to get ready for V, I'm getting the legacy edition. Whats the play order for story? Also, can I just watch/read the first digital comic it comes with so I don't have to play MGS 1?

 

[matrix-cat]

Yup, Big Boss is breaking bad.

Unf, I can't wait. I want Big Boss to go bad, and I want to feel uncomfortable playing as him. The idea of a Metal Gear game with properly mature themes, Kojima's answer to something like The Last of Us, is like a dream come true.

So to get ready for V, I'm getting the legacy edition. Whats the play order for story? Also, can I just watch/read the first digital comic it comes with so I don't have to play MGS 1?

The order they were made in is always the way to go: 1, 2, 3, 4, then Peace Walker. You can probably get away with the comic instead of MGS1, but you'd be missing out on one of the best games. It does feel outdated today, but I'd strongly recommend at least trying a couple of hours of it.

 

[Catalix]

Unf, I can't wait. I want Big Boss to go bad, and I want to feel uncomfortable playing as him. The idea of a Metal Gear game with properly mature themes, Kojima's answer to something like The Last of Us, is like a dream come true.

YES. This is exactly what I want.

Don't puss out on this, Kojima. Go all the way.

 

[Erigu]

grey fox, a clone or just big boss double would replace big boss in the second half of the game. how would this actually benefit the story? it would just devalue it and be a massive waste of way because big boss wouldn't actually develop as a character.

'oh by the way, the entire adventure you've just gone through doesn't really mean anything because you're not actually big boss! surprise! but heres the real big boss and heres the credits!'

Yup, pretty much what I meant above when I said I didn't think the twist would be worth it.
But Kojima loves them twists. I mean, Paz in Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker, for instance...

 

[Gui_PT]

He loves twists but not bad ones. He's not an idiot.

Paz twist was actually pretty nice but playing as a BB clone instead of actually playing as BB is pointless and unnecessary.

 

[Rogue Agent]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCsZGKROAeY

 

[SJRB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCsZGKROAeY

"words that kill" indeed.

 

[Erigu]

He loves twists but not bad ones.

Really, now?
"There was a real Naomi Hunter, but I took her place because she had the perfect job for my plans and I actually had the skills to pull that one off. That being said, my name really is Naomi, and I was adopted by someone named Jaeger/Hunter. Funny how things work out."
"It may have looked like we were actively trying to kill you, but nope: we actually meant for you to come this far: it was all part of the plan."
"There's a third clone, and he's the president of the United States."
"Ocelot took Liquid's arm for some reason and is now possessed."
Etc.

Paz twist was actually pretty nice

Was it? Can you really make sense of what happened there? What was Zardonov trying to accomplish? Who was he working for, in the end? USSR or Cipher? Not exactly the same thing, is it?