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Metal Gear Solid V (PS3/360/PS4/XBO/Maybe PC) - Extended 9 minute E3 trailer

Was it? Can you really make sense of what happened there? What was Zardonov trying to accomplish? Who was he working for, in the end? USSR or Cipher? Not exactly the same thing, is it?

Zadornov was working for the KGB, and so was Paz. Zadornov bought time for Paz to get things ready in the end. Paz was working for the KGB and the CIA - and she ultimately was with Cipher. I took it that Zadornov didn't know that Paz was working for the CIA and Cipher too.
 

Erigu

Member
Zadornov was working for the KGB, and so was Paz. Zadornov bought time for Paz to get things ready in the end. Paz was working for the KGB and the CIA - and she ultimately was with Cipher. I took it that Zadornov didn't know that Paz was working for the CIA and Cipher too.
Gálvez: Think, Coldman. We're on an American base, eagerly endorsed and supplied by a Pro-American regime. What's the internatinal community to think? The world will burn with Anti-American sentiment! Communism will spread across Latin America unchecked. Let the Age of Deterrence be Undone by the Deterrent Itself - such is the Kremlin's plan.
Coldman: You son of a bitch...
Gálvez: Paz come here... Shoot him.
Paz: Professor Galvez...?
Gálvez: Hm... I am Vladimir Zadornov. And Vladimir means "Ruler of Peace." Now do as you're told Paz.
Coldman: Don't do it.
Gálvez: Remember what they did to you at their base on the coast... For what Coldman's done... he deserves nothing less than death.
Coldman: Paz... I... I'm sorry...
Paz: I cannot...
Gálvez: Truly a child of peace...
Why is Paz still acting, there? Is Zadornov playing along as well? Why? Who would there be to fool? Big Boss? Is Zadornov's True Real Plan to fail here and be captured by MSF? Is he assuming Paz would get to stay on Mother Base, too?
 

Buntabox

Member
Why is Paz still acting, there? Is Zadornov playing along as well? Why? Who would there be to fool? Big Boss? Is Zadornov's True Real Plan to fail here and be captured by MSF? Is he assuming Paz would get to stay on Mother Base, too?

I was pretty sure Zadornov/Galvez didn't know that Paz was with Cipher. This should mean she is still a child being used by the KGB to him. It's been a while though and I won't be playing again till the Legacy Coll.
 
Well, they're both definitely acting. Zadornov knows that Big Boss has MSF. I'm unsure here, but I don't think he knows that MSF would break in there. But, he prepares for such a circumstance so even if he gets captured, at least Paz would still do her thing since no one suspects her. So yeah, definitely putting on a show there for Big Boss - keep Paz's identity protected.

I think it can be interpreted either way and it doesn't matter what the result is, whether Zadornov wasn't aware of Paz's Cipher affiliation or whether Cipher sent both Paz and Zadornov to manipulate this PW project and Big Boss. I don't think it matters.

I think it's a symbolic scene in retrospect, because it shows that both of them shoot Coldman.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
The order they were made in is always the way to go: 1, 2, 3, 4, then Peace Walker. You can probably get away with the comic instead of MGS1, but you'd be missing out on one of the best games. It does feel outdated today, but I'd strongly recommend at least trying a couple of hours of it.

Thanks. I'll probably just be lazy and read/watch the interactive comic so I can start 2 sooner rather than later.
 

Erigu

Member
she is still a child being used by the KGB to him.
But he had to know she wasn't just an innocent girl, or his many escapes to buy some time for her later on would make no sense. He even ultimately dies just so she could accomplish whatever-he-thought-her-mission-was (I guess we'll never know). Even if he just considered her a KGB agent, what's going on in the scene I quoted just above? Why is Zadornov reminding Paz of his real name? Why is he trying to convince her to shoot Coldman? Why is he still talking to her as if she were an innocent girl?
That would have to be an act, but what would the point be, there? Fooling Big Boss? Despite the fact he apparently was about to kill him anyway until Amanda intervened? Despite the fact he had no control over what would happen to him and Paz if Big Boss were to turn things around?

Not sure why Paz made up some story about the tape having been recorded by a friend of hers either... Seems like it could only harm her credibility if Big Boss were to meet the person who actually recorded the tape (a definitive possibility considering they meant for him to go there anyway).


I'm unsure here, but I don't think he knows that MSF would break in there. But, he prepares for such a circumstance so even if he gets captured, at least Paz would still do her thing since no one suspects her. So yeah, definitely putting on a show there for Big Boss - keep Paz's identity protected.
That's assuming they'd then get to stay on Mother Base... Quite the long shot...
 
That's assuming they'd both get to stay on Mother Base... Quite the long shot...

I don't think that matters. Even if Zadornov died, Paz would still be there in MSF - a mole. She'd find another way to ultimately take control of ZEKE, even without Zadornov's distractions. These are basically contingencies upon contingencies.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
Yup, pretty much what I meant above when I said I didn't think the twist would be worth it.
But Kojima loves them twists. I mean, Paz in Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker, for instance...

He does love them twists. I don''t think he'll pull the switcheroo on this one.
 

Erigu

Member
I don't think that matters. Even if Zadornov died, Paz would still be there in MSF - a mole.
That sounds like a rather optimistic prediction to me...
Paz: Zadornov was paying my room, board, and tuition, but he has since been captured. I told the man that with no more money from the KGB, I could no longer afford school. ...He bought my story, and when I said I would be willing to work, he took pity on me and let me stay. For some reason Miller really plead my case.
Good thing Big Boss is a softie!

On another note, the "Miller really plead my case" bit also is annoying, as a rather obvious interpretation would be that Kaz did because of his connection to Zero (a connection Paz apparently is unaware of), but would that really be in his best interests? Was Kaz fine with Paz hijacking Zeke?
 
Well, Big Boss trusts Paz. Heck, he got involved with this Peace Walker incident for her! Of course he has a soft spot for Paz.

Kaz didn't expect Zero to blackmail MSF at the end. To him, it was the case of him providing info to Zero and Zero funding MSF in return. The stuff at the end just ended Kaz's business relationship with him. MSF's gonna be hunted.
 

Buntabox

Member
Tries to make sense of Kojima

Rogue Agent basically said this, but it's more about the imagery with Kojima. The idea of the scene more than the logic. You can think the logic of his games into holes. Ways things would be easier and etc. Kojima just loves his triple agents and creating scenes that dynamically build toward the twist. Means to an end and all. It really doesn't make sense though.

Well, Big Boss trusts Paz. Heck, he got involved with this Peace Walker incident for her! Of course he has a hard spot for Paz.

Fixed.
xray vision in that scene
 
Maybe he shouldn't have insisted for Paz (a Cipher agent and he knew that) to stay, then...

Well, Kaz didn't expect Zero to backstab him like that. He probably thought that he would just keep an eye on Paz like Zero told him to and that's it. Then the craziness and Big Boss' worries in the end spelled out that Zero betrayed that trust.

Don't get me wrong, all your points are logical. I get where you're coming from. I'm just providing my interpretation of things and kinda just playing along :p Like Buntabox stated, Kojima prioritises on imagery and symbolism and stuff. On replays of the game, this imagery and symbolism may be appreciated even more - even if things don't make sense like you're trying to highlight.

Regarding MGSV...

With the Gray Fox or Big Boss body double theory, I don't see the symbolism of Big Boss' downfall yet, that's why I can't accept that theory right now. If I assume that it's the real BIg Boss, then all sorts of imagery and stuff crops in my head - such as Big Boss' 'horn' and scars and his overall look. To me, the player, I see him 'transforming' into something more brutal and his scars are a way to highlight his emotional scars.

Fixed.
xray vision in that scene

Yeah, that's a better way to put it :)
 

Erigu

Member
Rogue Agent basically said this, but it's more about the imagery with Kojima. The idea of the scene more than the logic. You can think the logic of his games into holes. Ways things would be easier and etc. Kojima just loves his triple agents and creating scenes that dynamically build toward the twist. Means to an end and all. It really doesn't make sense though.
Oh, I know. My point was that Kojima has a long history of coming up with ZOMG TWISTS! that make little to no sense.
So "he loves twists but not bad ones"... yeah, well, could have fooled me!

And speaking of "awesome triple agents twists", how does that post-credits reveal about Ocelot actually being Adam make sense? Isn't Adam supposed to be an NSA code breaker who defected to the Soviet Union in 1960? And isn't Ocelot supposed to have been taken in and raised by GRU and Volgin after World War II?
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
Man, is anyone else excited to finally play with Ocelot on your side? In every other game he is either the antagonist or off-screen for the whole game (PO and PW). Hopefully, I finally I get to have him right next to me being a total badass.

Also, there has been something that I've wondered since MGS3, does Ocelot know that The Boss is his mother and vice versa, did The Boss know Ocelot was her son? This is never really answered in any of the games.
 
Yeah, I'm excited for that too. Imagine if he assists you in some quick missions. Heck, even just having him by your side and talking to you about stuff would be awesome. Finally, a game where he's loyal to you again. Sounds fantastic.

Not sure if Ocelot knows his mum.
 
From the look of the trailer i think Ocelot will be like cambell/Zero in terms of your codex, will be really cool tho having him directly on your side,
 
Yeah, it'd be fantastic to have him as one of your main contacts via radio/codec. Just listening to his stuff has the potential to be great - this Ocelot who is still normal and not yet psycho as in MGS2 and MGS4.
 
Yeah, Peace Walker's story was kinda shitty and convoluted, even by Metal Gear standards. I don't even know what were Zadornov's real intentions in the end, or his true allegiances.
 
Another theory on Punished Snake, which may have been thought of already, but I haven't been keeping up to date recently!

Could it be that Big Boss is still in a coma and the person we are playing as is The Ghost Without A Past, but with heavy surgery? Zero's attempt at ruining Big Bosses' image due to their differences.

If Big Boss later recovers, he reconciles with Zero, and is able to set up Foxhound as a US division.

Mix it up with some gene therapy too, character and player don't know they're not Big Boss, break in to a compound and come face to face with the real thing in a coma.
 

Buntabox

Member
Foxhound is already formed according to PO, but Big Boss does have to return at some point to take command.


Edit: I'm gonna guess that
Huey
might die in MGSV or after. It would make sense as to why Big Boss would want to infiltrate Fox Hound; get his hands on TX-55.
 
Edit: I'm gonna guess that
Huey
might die in MGSV or after. It would make sense as to why Big Boss would want to infiltrate Fox Hound; get his hands on TX-55.

Doesn't he
commit suicide in a pool after discovering his wife having an affair with his son
?

He'll likely have something to do with creating the Metal Gear from the first game, or it's prototype or something. And I'm guessing Strangelove'll make an appearance or a mention regarding the Patriot AIs (the thing I suspect to be the "weapon to surpass Metal Gear.")
 

Izick

Member
I definitely think there' some spin on this we aren't seeing. Maybe we're playing as someone else who is made to physically look like Big Boss, or perhaps playing only part of Big Boss's mind or something as 33-Hit-Combo alluded to.

Either way I think there are going to be some larger twists and turns that impact the whole narrative and how we played the game up until that point, rather than a reveal here or there about things.
 

Buntabox

Member
Doesn't he
commit suicide in a pool after discovering his wife having an affair with his son
?

He'll likely have something to do with creating the Metal Gear from the first game, or it's prototype or something. And I'm guessing Strangelove'll make an appearance or a mention regarding the Patriot AIs (the thing I suspect to be the "weapon to surpass Metal Gear.")

You are right. I totally forgot about that.

Maybe Huey changes sides? Does look like they torture the hell out of him in the trailer.



Regarding the switcheroo with the supposed different Snakes. I just don't see it. Stranger things have happened though.
 

Gui_PT

Member
I really really hope they don't do the whole "you're playing as someone else" twist. It'd ruin the whole experience for me.
 

Shauni

Member
Eh, I'm sure it's just going to be Zero popping up and telling BB, "I've been watching you the whole time, I know everything, it was all part of my plan." And BB will be like, "Fuck!" and destroy a MG or two. Then BB will realize he cannot beat Zero, so he'll join him, but in the shadows....in the shadows he will be a Heaven to those outside the law.

Or something like that.

Oh, and Snake and Zero will both be Gray Fox, and all of this will be happening inside Gray Fox's mind as he dies in Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, therefore rebooting the franchise with a fresh-faced Snake with a headset.
 

Izick

Member
I really really hope they don't do the whole "you're playing as someone else" twist. It'd ruin the whole experience for me.

Why? I understand there's a little feeling of betrayal due to the creators of the game leading you on for X amount of hours, but isn't that part of the fun?
 

Gui_PT

Member
Why? I understand there's a little feeling of betrayal due to the creators of the game leading you on for X amount of hours, but isn't that part of the fun?

Chinner has explained it quite well. Being a clone of BB would be meaningless and pointless to the actual BB character.

"You know everything you did through the game thinking you were doing it was BB? Nope. It was just some guy and BB is sleeping or hiding in a hole. You learned nothing new about the character. Bye!"
 

Izick

Member
Chinner has explained it quite well. Being a clone of BB would be meaningless and pointless to the actual BB character.

"You know everything you did through the game thinking you were doing it was BB? Nope. It was just some guy and BB is sleeping or hiding in a hole. You learned nothing new about the character. Bye!"

That's really minimizing the potential implications it could have on the entire Metal Gear story, but I understand where you're coming from.

Not to mention it doesn't mean we couldn't actually get to see what the real Big Boss was up to during said time period.

If it had to be someone else, I'd rather it be Gray Fox rather than just another clone. It's a far-fetched idea, but I think it would be an interesting twist on the existing lore of the series.
 

Shauni

Member
I don't mean to ditch anyone, and I know crazy speculation is part of highly anticipated games, but I can't believe there are really people putting forward a theory that Big Boss in this game is Gray Fox in disguise. I mean, Jesus Christ. A fake Big Boss is pretty silly, okay, but Gray Fox? Some of you have to be on meth or something.
 

Izick

Member
I don't mean to ditch anyone, and I know crazy speculation is part of highly anticipated games, but I can't believe there are really people putting forward a theory that Big Boss in this game is Gray Fox in disguise. I mean, Jesus Christ. A fake Big Boss is pretty silly, okay, but Gray Fox? Some of you have to be on meth or something.

I didn't believe it until I saw this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb1WhDdto08

I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm just saying it's an interesting theory and they bring up a lot of good points. Some of their points are utter garbage (ponytail) but most of them are intriguing. Also no need for insults.
 

Shauni

Member
I guess it did sound kind of insulting, but I don't know, it's like 'faked the moon landing' kind of stuff. It's like I just....can't help myself.
 

Gui_PT

Member
I can understand why you'd enjoy that twist(Gray Fox is a pretty sweet character) but you can't want a twist just for the sake of wanting twists.

As I've said before, if they changed Gray Fox's face and removed his eye to make him look exactly like BB, they'd have to change everything back before MG1 happens.

It just makes no sense.
 
I want Gray Fox in this game as a soldier who shows loyalty to Big Boss and someone who has fast reflexes so you should get the impression of someone who will earn the codename "Fox" later on. No ninja experiment stuff - just an awesome badass soldier at this stage.
 
Is there a comprehensive summary of Solidus' activity in his earlier years? Metalgear wiki only mentions that he's in "paramilitaries of the CIA", then dispatched to Liberia in the late 80's.

If Solidus was sent on missions during the 80's, before the Liberian Civil War, there are definitely two grown men that look pretty much identical to each other, with questionable differences in age. But then again, he might've been kept in very secretive operations etc. so perhaps he wouldn't surface till the end of the 80's.
It's interesting that in Liberia, Solidus adopts Raiden into his Small Boy Unit, and there could be a symbolic parallel between that and Big Boss and Eli (if Eli is Liquid) in MGS5.

In any case, Solidus is most certainly a grown man by 1984 (but a teenager at heart ;) ) so we might see him anyway in MGS5, voiced by David Hayter, no less, hurr. But honestly, Solidus is just such a patched up attempt at a character, the whole US president stuff...
 

Fehyd

Banned
We need to stop with the whole "fall of Big Boss" or "Big Boss turning into a villain" thing.

Big Boss was actually fighting against the control of the Patriots and Cipher, and it was actually the actions of Solid Snake that ruined that and almost helped Cipher win and control the world.

Snake wasn't the "hero" so much as he was an unwitting pawn used by the "bad guys".

I won't begrudge that Big Boss probably did bad things in his war with Zero and Cipher, but this idea that he's going to turn into some sort of villain just doesn't fit.
 

Izick

Member
I'm not saying that I necessarily want or need a twist, I actually enjoy when the twist is that there is no twist. All I am trying to say is that from everything we've seen and heard from the trailers and info out there, I think some sort of big twist is likely.

That doesn't mean it's something as out-there as Gray Fox being Big Boss, but after seeing that video (and I've already seen that rebuttal video; my thoughts are on that earlier in this thread) I don't think the Gray Fox theory is completely impossible. I'm not saying it's likely, but I see some interesting connections and evidence towards it. Basically I doubt it will be what happens, but I'm not ruling it out.

Is there a comprehensive summary of Solidus' activity in his earlier years? Metalgear wiki only mentions that he's in "paramilitaries of the CIA", then dispatched to Liberia in the late 80's.

Yeah, we don't really know anything except that he allegedly did some cloak & dagger work for the CIA in the 70's. I'm guessing if we're seeing Liquid (and likely Solid Snake) then we will probably see Solidus too, since there's some more interesting possibilities there since he'll be a young man instead of a kid like his "brothers."
 
This is a newer video, though. It was only released like yesterday. It makes good points in that these things seem to be just cosmetic and a lot of fuss is being made about them.
 

Izick

Member
This is a newer video, though. It was only released like yesterday. It makes good points in that these things seem to be just cosmetic and a lot of fuss is being made about them.

I'm watching it now. Didn't see it said part two.

I just got to the part where he discusses the Big Boss vs. Snake name, and he really has no argument for it. Same thing with the E-Cigar.

EDIT: Just finished the video. I agree with some of his points like the ponytail, but the video basically is him either treading the same ground as before or admitting he was wrong about stuff like the title of Big Boss or the E-Cigar.
 
His cigar thing is actually a very good point, I think. If Gray Fox is actually trying to disguise himself as Big Boss, who prefers cigars, then why does he use an e-cigar? He apparently seems so dedicated to pose himself as Big Boss that he can't use an ordinary cigar?!
 

Izick

Member
His cigar thing is actually a very good point, I think. If Gray Fox is actually trying to disguise himself as Big Boss, who prefers cigars, then why does he use an e-cigar? He apparently seems so dedicated to pose himself as Big Boss that he can't use an ordinary cigar?!

Maybe he can't smoke due to the surgery, maybe they have an allergy or maybe he just doesn't like smoking. Not to mention it might not necessarily be Gray Fox (or whoever it turns out to be) who is so dedicated to being disguised as Big Boss, but rather whoever is pulling the strings.

EDIT: Also the rebuttal he makes to the eye-patch is awful. The whole reason most people thought something was fishy back when the Ground Zeroes trailer came out was due to that little hologram mini-map. Sure, it's not as small as an eye-patch, but it's a lot more advanced than just being binoculars.
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
We need to stop with the whole "fall of Big Boss" or "Big Boss turning into a villain" thing.

Big Boss was actually fighting against the control of the Patriots and Cipher, and it was actually the actions of Solid Snake that ruined that and almost helped Cipher win and control the world.

Snake wasn't the "hero" so much as he was an unwitting pawn used by the "bad guys".

I won't begrudge that Big Boss probably did bad things in his war with Zero and Cipher, but this idea that he's going to turn into some sort of villain just doesn't fit.

He used Child Soldiers and threatened to launch a nuclear missile against America that would kill millions. Sounds like a downfall to me. Sure he may have had his reasons but that doesnt make him a good guy. Let's also remember his ultimate goal was to create a world where soldiers were always needed, in other words a world in which there is constant warfare.

Again, these ideals aren't exactly good ones.
 
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