• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain | Review Thread | Words That Kill

F

Fjordson

Member
braves01 said:
As someone who loves the codec calls and cutscenes from 1, 2, 3, and 4, it's disappointing to hear much of the story-telling comes through audio tapes I might not come across. I'm also not thrilled about the prospect of mother base grinding, but the core stealth is so good I suspect it will make up a bit for the shortcomings.
Click to expand...
Agreed on the story stuff. I love the Metal Gear story and lore so the more of that the better for me.

But the gameplay and the open-world aspect sounds really good, so I'm cool with playing something a little different.
 
T

tryagainlater

Member
Verendus said:
True, but a lot people seemed to expect that, and I think it only amplified after the Konami drama.


Well, I don't really want to get into some lengthy discussion about this (partly because I don't remember everything, it's been 7 years), but to summarise my view, I don't think the Solid Snake in MGS4 is an organic evolution of the character we see through the original Metal Gear through Metal Gear Solid 2. He has a pretty strong journey, but in MGS4, he's inconsistent. Not to mention him not being able to pull the trigger considering the consequences of those actions, which he knew to be real at the time, until the other guy comes and explains everything after he already decides not to pull it. It's basically the biggest way to piss on his character. He finds value in his life at the expense of others (as far as he knew), which is not Solid Snake.

It's been 7 years so my memory is fuzzy, but I hate that damn story because there was so much wrong with it in so many ways, and this is a series filled with crazy stuff.
Click to expand...

He is a clone that was bred to have the utmost survival instinct. Suicide was not in his nature. It may have been his final mission but it's not surprising he wavered. Loyalty to the mission was The Boss' thing. Solid Snake wasn't as dedicated as her. Plus I found the living his life for himself thing hit me much harder than his death would have so I personally like the ending.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
sjay1994 said:
-Kojima

I think this approach is whats causing some of the concerns. But I think personally I will appreciate that. When the world and other characters show you the story rather than take the time to explain it to you, I feel like the movie or game's world is stronger for it.

Just 2 more weeks till I find out, but the gameplay looks like the open world game I have wanted for a long time, and I can be satisfied with that at least.
Click to expand...
That would be all well and good, but it seems like the characters tell you a lot of information and Snake just barely reacts to most of it. That's what i've seen so far. Besides a line here or there, he's really quiet.
 
R

realcZk

Member
None of the reviews mentioned the mobile app that I saw. Wondering if it'll be ready by launch. Obviously they are reviewing the game not the mobile app but I'm curious to see if/how it's changed.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
It's actually exciting to hear Jason Schrier say that the dialogue in the tapes is better written than the cutscenes. Which to me, means that it's loads better than the codec calls.

Yeah there's something iconic about the codec, but it's time and place is gone. The amount of exposition in those codes was...insane. Some of them were ridiculously long, I'm pretty sure in MGS3 like, before the game starts you have to go through atleast 10-15 minutes worth of codec in the first area.

It's great. It's an evolution. One thing I love about MGS, is that each one introduces new gameplay elements that drastically change the way the game is played. And MGSV with their cassettes is another evolutions.
Click to expand...

I like how they also take a more passive role, rather than remove player control for minutes at a time.

Information and story is now fully presented as you play the game, which is a welcome change.
 
A

AgentOtaku

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
MGS4 fans am cry


For their part, Phantom Pain’s story elements are at least well produced, with beautiful cinematography, and workmanlike performances from everyone, including Keifer Sutherland, who sadly has practically nothing to do as Big Boss. His inexplicable silence through even the most crucial story beats towards the end go beyond mere stoicism, and were positively jarring. Almost gone are the off-topic codec convos, climactic boss battles, and memorable character moments of Metal Gears past. Everyone seems to exist solely to walk on screen, deliver information, and then stand there dramatically."
Click to expand...

Good thing MGS4 is one of my least favorites outside of acts 1 & 2....

That being said, this is EXACTLY what I figured was gonna happen with them hiring Sutherland....
 
V

Verendus

Banned
Tookay said:
Isn't the final point, then, that Snake deserves a chance to live for himself? He clearly wanted to live, and he's given a reprieve thanks to Big Boss' explanation. Is that not a valid character arc?
Click to expand...
No, in my eyes, because it contradicts the character arc he receives from the beginning of his story into Metal Gear Solid 2. He already had a character arc that brought him to a certain point. The fact that he can't pull that trigger negates that all. It feels like his character regressed, and I disliked that. The Solid Snake who goes through all that shit from when he's a rookie to when he finds new meaning again is someone I believe would pull that trigger. That's ultimately what made him better in comparison to the rest.

But that's besides the point. This is one of those subjective things that people are either going to like or not, and I don't since I feel it doesn't respect what's already happened with his character. Yes, there's probably tragedy in him pulling it, but it fits the journey he was put through, and the character we were shown previously. The happy ending, especially the way it happens, was a bunch of crap in my eyes. It's not that I wouldn't want a happy ending for his character, but you can't take it all the way there, and then back out in one of the most clumsily executed scenes in the series.
 
Gusy

Gusy

Member
TimeEffect said:
Is there a lot of foliage/jungle like in MGS3?

Sorry, havent totally been following.
Click to expand...

Seems that way. Its the Afghanistan-Africa Desert/Jungle combo we've been watching to death in trailers the last 2 years (Not counting your base, but I don't think it counts a a proper map)
 
O

Ozium

Member
you guys know you can listen to tapes while in free range mode while picking berries or some shit or during a side op where you have to hunt an animal, right?

You don't have to listen to tapes while you are doing a main mission or in the middle of infiltrating an enemy base...
 
S

sjay1994

Member
tryagainlater said:
He is a clone that was bred to have the utmost survival instinct. Suicide was not in his nature. It may have been his final mission but it's not surprising he wavered. Loyalty to the mission was The Boss' thing. Solid Snake wasn't as dedicated as her. Plus I found the living his life for himself thing hit me much harder than his death would have so I personally like the ending.
Click to expand...

Well, people are very divisive if Snake should have pulled the trigger or not. David Hayter felt Snake should have killed himself.

I find him living both nice since he at least gets to stop being a hero and just live what little time he has left as he wants, but that is also tragic since his time left is so short.

He probably lived maybe a year or 2 more, since he is dead by the time of Rising.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
shadyspace said:
So how do you go about acquiring tapes anyway?
Click to expand...

I imagine most of them are found throughout the environment, but a good chunk are likely tied to rewards for completing missions in certain ways, as well as being cumulative rewards for certain milestones. Basically, just like they were handled in Ground Zeroes.
 
N

normalmode

Member
Being one of the reviewers, I can attest that some of the cassettes that are automatically unlocked through story mission completions are worth it. One set of tapes provide clarity to a series-long character relationship in a manner that made me really happy and melancholic.
 
S

sjay1994

Member
Ozium said:
you guys know you can listen to tapes while in free range mode while picking berries or some shit or during a side op where you have to hunt an animal, right?

You don't have to listen to tapes while you are doing a main mission or in the middle of infiltrating an enemy base...
Click to expand...

You could listen to the tapes while playing the game in GZ, so its a safe bet you can in V.
 
T

Tal

Member
I love the MGS4 ending because Snake rejects the cultural script that he has to kill himself to wipe away his sin, which was set up in all the trailers and which Naomi bought into. It's one final blow against the patriots' memes.
 
M

MakeMeFeelAlive

Member
As a MGS fan i am stoked. But, i am worried. MGSV obviously plays a lot different than the previous titles, and im a bit worried that i will screw it up, and/or wont be good at it, and will end up not liking it because i screwed it up. Am i the only who feels this way?
 
O

Ozium

Member
sjay1994 said:
You could listen to the tapes while playing the game in GZ, so its a safe bet you can in V.
Click to expand...

I know you can. I am speaking to people who say that they don't want to listen to a tape and be distracted while on a mission. I am pointing out that you can listen to these while doing side activities or just exploring.
 
M

MiamiWesker

Member
Verendus said:
No, in my eyes, because it contradicts the character arc he receives from the beginning of his story into Metal Gear Solid 2. He already had a character arc that brought him to a certain point. The fact that he can't pull that trigger negates that all. It feels like his character regressed, and I disliked that. The Solid Snake who goes through all that shit from when he's a rookie to when he finds new meaning again is someone I believe would pull that trigger. That's ultimately what made him better in comparison to the rest.

But that's besides the point. This is one of those subjective things that people are either going to like or not, and I don't since I feel it doesn't respect what's already happened with his character. Yes, there's probably tragedy in him pulling it, but it fits the journey he was put through, and the character we were shown previously. The happy ending, especially the way it happens, was a bunch of crap in my eyes. It's not that I wouldn't want a happy ending for his character, but you can't take it all the way there, and then back out in one of the most clumsily executed scenes in the series.
Click to expand...

I don't see that. Snake at the end of MGS1 seems very much into living life and enjoying it. Snake at the end of MGS2 inspires raiden to live life and enjoy it. Eveything solid snake stands for is to fight so that you can live, sadly for him his living is being in combat but he enjoys life. Suicide is not in his character at all. Also the only reason he was going to kill himself was because he believed he was going to unleash a virus that could kill millions, he was doing it for the better of the world like he always does.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Ralemont said:
The secret of MGS is that the gameplay was always way better than the story anyway.
Click to expand...

yep. to hear that they've put gameplay first and relegated the story is
happytears.gif
for me tbh
 
I

Ishida

Banned
Tal said:
I love the MGS4 ending because Snake rejects the cultural script that he has to kill himself to wipe away his sin, which was set up in all the trailers and which Naomi bought into. It's one final blow against the patriots' memes.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And it fits perfectly on the theme of breaking cycles that MGS4 presents. Loved the ending.
 
S

Solid Samus

Banned
so what's the absolute best way to catch up on this series for a relative newcomer who's only played MGS1 and a bit of GZ (rectifying the latter as we speak), and doesn't have the time to actually play through the whole series multiple times for the complete experience?
 
C

Cavaliersfan767

Banned
Even though i am worried about the story, i give them props for trying something differnet with the open world. From looking at the reviews it seems they nailed it.
 
V

Verendus

Banned
MiamiWesker said:
I don't see that. Snake at the end of MGS1 seems very much into living life and enjoying it. Snake at the end of MGS2 inspires raided to live life and enjoy it. Eveything solid snake stands for is to fight so that you can live, sadly for him his living is being in combat but he enjoys life. Suicide is not in his character at all. Also the only reason he was going to kill himself was because he believed he was going to unleash a virus that could kill millions, he was doing it for the better of the world like he always does.
Click to expand...
You have a character who finds meaning in his life, and decides to start actively fighting and shaping the world to be a better place. In MGS4, everything is turned on its head, and this same character in that very game displays the kind of hero he is since he keeps going, yet cannot pull that trigger which ultimately would be a very costly mistake as far as he knew.

That, right there, is something I don't accept because it just contradicts everything about him in my eyes. The tragedy of putting Solid Snake in that kind of situation is that he would pull that trigger. That's why that situation sucks. That's the man we're led to believe he is. He can make the tough decision, but in the end, he doesn't for a reason that makes no real sense from a character perspective. And to wave away that decision, we get that nonsense cameo with exposition, and another character lifting the burden off his shoulders, after Solid Snake has already made the important choice, which makes it seem like even more of a slap in the face.

I hate that game.

I just found further appreciation for MGSV. At least it wasn't MGS4.
 
C

chefbags

Member
VolticArchangel said:
I dunno if GAF considers this thread worthy. But, here we are. The day the review embargo is lifted is the birthday of the man. With James Horan and Donna Burke, the community's pouring it's wishes on his 52ND and most importantly the last of his most acclaimed creation. Here's to you, Kojima-san...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16NH9YaF6iw

Thanks for everything...
Click to expand...

Holy shit the feels. I hope Kojima-San sees this.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
Crimsonclaw111 said:
It was Buy Sell Trade for $35 but they're all gone and going for $40 minimum now.
Click to expand...

I'm more inclined to buy from an actual store than an ebay key (that's not a judgement by the way, just a preference). But one thing I'm not clear on is do these keys (authorized resellers or just regular endusers) include the free copy of Ground Zeroes, or is that just Steam (and Amazon, because they're also advertising it)? Because that also factors in heavily into whether or not it's even worth considering eBay or B/S/T here. If it's $40 just for Phantom Pain, I'm better off buying directly through Steam seeing as how I don't already have Ground Zeroes.
 
C

Cavaliersfan767

Banned
Kinda reminds me of silent hill 4(which happened to be theblast team silent game, mgs v is the last kojima game). Silent hill 1,2,3 were pretty similar with 4 being radically different. Some people liked it some didnt. I can kinda see this being the case with mgs v, some will like the open world and lesser story and some wont. I should state Mgs v is obviously a much better game than sh4.
 
B

Bubba_Sparks

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
It's actually exciting to hear Jason Schrier say that the dialogue in the tapes is better written than the cutscenes. Which to me, means that it's loads better than the codec calls.

Yeah there's something iconic about the codec, but it's time and place is gone. The amount of exposition in those codes was...insane. Some of them were ridiculously long, I'm pretty sure in MGS3 like, before the game starts you have to go through atleast 10-15 minutes worth of codec in the first area.

It's great. It's an evolution. One thing I love about MGS, is that each one introduces new gameplay elements that drastically change the way the game is played. And MGSV with their cassettes is another evolutions.
Click to expand...

I agree! The exposition in the past games was terrible, but it wasn't just the length that was the problem, it was also how terribly it was written. I always felt as if Kojima and his writers had numerous dictionaries and technical manuals on hand that they would just copy from verbatim. Like they found some piece of military hardware they liked, so to introduce it they would have a character read the technical manual or just the pure specifications, and expect you to find that captivating.
 
M

MiamiWesker

Member
Verendus said:
You have a character who finds meaning in his life, and decides to start actively fighting and shaping the world to be a better place. In MGS4, everything is turned on its head, and this same character in that very game displays the kind of hero he is since he keeps going, yet cannot pull that trigger which ultimately would be a very costly mistake as far as he knew.

That, right there, is something I don't accept because it just contradicts everything about him in my eyes. The tragedy of putting Solid Snake in that kind of situation is that he would pull that trigger. That's why that situation sucks. That's the man we're led to believe he is. He can make the tough decision, but in the end, he doesn't for a reason that makes no real sense from a character perspective. And to wave away that decision, we get that nonsense cameo with exposition, and another character lifting the burden off his shoulders, after Solid Snake has already made the important choice, which makes it seem like even more of a slap in the face.

I hate that game.

I just found further appreciation for MGSV. At least it wasn't MGS4.
Click to expand...

Well I think he was going to pull the trigger if big boss didn't come along but it's hard for him. I never saw that scene as him saying screw everyone I rather unleash a virus than kill myself, he just wasn't ready to do it just then. Killing yourself should not be easy for anyone. But big boss came, in my opinion totally messed up the story, and basically told snake you are good, no virus you can live for the time you have left. Why would anyone kill themselves after that?
 
R

RyudBoy

Member
I want to get this on PC but after seeing how Batman AK turned out, I'm kinda scared we'll get a shit port. What are the chances of that happening? :/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Did You Know Gaming: Every Canceled Metal Gear Solid Game
21
1K
adamsapple replied
Kojima reveals that Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was supposed to be MGS5 at first
Game Dev
16
2K
VinnyMac replied
IGN: Metal Gear Solid 4 to be included in The Metal Gear Solid: Master Collection Vol.2
Rumor 2 3 4 5
211
19K
RaduN replied
Metal Gear Solid: Master Collection Vol. 1 | Review Thread
News
28
3K
Badlucktroll replied
Hideo Kojima isn’t mentioned in Metal Gear Solid Master Collection’s new credits
Drama Game Dev 2
56
5K
//DEVIL// replied
Top Bottom