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MEXICO 5 - 0 USA - "Who is your daddy?"

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The argument of Football vs NFL has never really bothered me because I know 99% of the time Americans are going to choose NFL and the rest of the world are going to choose Football.

However the whole name thing does bother me. FOOT-BALL is Football. You kick a ball round with your FOOT. Your FOOT. FOOTBALL. A BALL. With your FOOT.

FOOTBALL.

giggs.jpg
 
Screaming_Gremlin said:
Probably depends on what part of the country you are in, but I grew up in the Midwest and most kids stopped playing soccer long before high school. We played baseball in the spring/summer. And while younger we played soccer in the fall, by the time most of the boys turned 8 they had switched over and were playing American football instead in a Pop Warner league.
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Why do they stop playing? Do they just fall out of love with the game or is it a cultural trend to move away from soccer like a rite of passage?
 
I like American Football, i even try to stay up to watch the superbowl.
But there's is nothing more awesome than a football game that matters, watching a game in the World Championship in the bar against your rival country and win it, you can't even desrcibe that feeling
 
Said it before and I'll say it again, soccer has a huge image problem here in the states currently and the things like diving don't help at all. People will cite athletes known for diving in American sports but the difference is it's looked down upon by just about everyone. People see it happening and the reaction here, in a large majority of cases, will be "look at that sissy European."
 
Meus Renaissance said:
Why do they stop playing? Do they just fall out of love with the game or is it a cultural trend to move away from soccer like a rite of passage?
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Because there is no 'future' in continuing to play soccer in the US. Football on the other hand can land you scholarships to the best universities in the nation. And then there's the possibility of going pro. This applies to basketball and to a lesser extent, baseball. Basketball follows the same formula. Being good will land you at a prestigious university and a chance at going pro. Baseball does the same, but has the minor league system in place after college.

Soccer doesn't have that kind of system in place. You can get a scholarship to a university and that's about it. From there, the only choice is go to tryouts for the MLB, which is a joke when you think about the time and dedication it took to reach the pro level. The good soccer players will usually leave the US before college and head out to europe(like most south american players). This puts universities in a bind since all the good players have left the US. Why spend large amounts of money to promote the sport for talent that isn't there? This in turn lowers the coverage of the sport, since coverage usually starts in the university level.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I like both sports. I see soccer more like a checkers game. Constantly moving and always a bit unpredictable.

Football is more like a chess game. Strategies are laid out and its all about chipping away at the other team, 1 play at a time. Football is also more of a coaching battle, so it's sort of like 2 armies battling each other. There's a reason why military terms are used in football.

I will say that US soccer is a bore fest to watch. If we had announcers like those in europe (who actually sound genuinely excited), soccer would be a more popular sport.
 
If you want to get exited about football (i'm sorry i refuse to call it soccer), srsly go watch the World Championship next year in a bar in either Holland/England/Spain/ Italy etc. satisfaction guaranteed
 
FooFighter said:
The argument of Football vs NFL has never really bothered me because I know 99% of the time Americans are going to choose NFL and the rest of the world are going to choose Football.

However the whole name thing does bother me. FOOT-BALL is Football. You kick a ball round with your FOOT. Your FOOT. FOOTBALL. A BALL. With your FOOT.
Click to expand...

You'd have a good point if it weren't for the fact that when the word 'football' was first coined, the game had more in common with rugby or NFL than it does with modern association football. As has been pointed out already in the thread, it seems likely that it got its name from the fact that it was played on foot rather than on horseback.

In fact, from the first draft of the FA rules:

IX. A player shall be entitled to run with the ball towards his adversaries' goal if he makes a fair catch, or catches the ball on the first bound; but in case of a fair catch, if he makes his mark he shall not run.
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I think it's clear that the US's issue with Soccer is our athletes play football or basketball.. then baseball. THEN some other sport. And in certain parts of the US Hockey is added to the list of sports great athletes choose to play first.

The number of top tier athletes that choose to play soccer in the US is really really small. There is just less money in it here than in other sports... and basketball has the built in advantage that the court is small enough to be set up in urban cores.

The US is a large country that has a stronger emphasis on youth sports than almost any other country. From pop warner, to highschool sports to college sports. If soccer (or futbol or whatever the hell) was actually a focus of ours we would do very well in it.

Fact is, it is a fringe sport in the US for now.
 
iapetus said:
You'd have a good point if it weren't for the fact that when the word 'football' was first coined, the game had more in common with rugby or NFL than it does with modern association football. As has been pointed out already in the thread, it seems likely that it got its name from the fact that it was played on foot rather than on horseback.

In fact, from the first draft of the FA rules:
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and early American football had more in common with rugby or australian rules football than it does now either.

So what we have are two sports that started in a very similar place with the same name and diverged greatly over time.
 
iapetus said:
You'd have a good point if it weren't for the fact that when the word 'football' was first coined, the game had more in common with rugby or NFL than it does with modern association football. As has been pointed out already in the thread, it seems likely that it got its name from the fact that it was played on foot rather than on horseback.

In fact, from the first draft of the FA rules:
Click to expand...

Well... you learn something new everyday.
 
FooFighter said:
The argument of Football vs NFL has never really bothered me because I know 99% of the time Americans are going to choose NFL and the rest of the world are going to choose Football.

However the whole name thing does bother me. FOOT-BALL is Football. You kick a ball round with your FOOT. Your FOOT. FOOTBALL. A BALL. With your FOOT.

FOOTBALL.

giggs.jpg
Click to expand...

goal_wideweb__430x331,1.jpg


No Goal - Only at Old Trafford
 
`Moe Joe. said:
It is also why Football is the world game.

Nigeria may not be the hot spot, but the likes of Yakubu, Yobo, Obasi, Demba Ba etc are class.

Don't start all this pro USA shit. If you had a good return rate of professional football players to make up for your 300 million population you'd probably be able to talk. But you don't. I'd rate Australia on par, maybe even better than the USA national team. And we have 26 million people. Enough said. Oh, and Rugby is our #1 sport too btw.
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:lol

I agreed with everything you said right up until here. Sorry mate, but AFL is so much bigger than rugby in australia, so much bigger it's not even funny
 
santouras said:
:lol

I agreed with everything you said right up until here. Sorry mate, but AFL is so much bigger than rugby in australia, so much bigger it's not even funny
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Plus, Soccer isn't the US's number 2 sport. Or number 3. Or number 4. or 5. or 6.

Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, GOLF and MMA are all more popular sports in the US than soccer. In fact, there are some stats I found on a google search that suggest soccer is about as popular in the US as pro bowling. I really don't think the rest of the world comprehends just how much the US doesn't care about soccer on the whole.

There is very little interest in the sport, very little money (comparatively) to be made playing the sport here, and almost no infrastructure for developing or discovering talent. If you have a kid that shows great athleticism and you want to try and develop that soccer is not a very feasible option here.
 
I have a question regarding American football/baseball/basketball games.
From what I saw in a number of films/TV series (LOL, yes I know, that's why I'm asking :P) the people would just come to the stadium, buy a drink and a hot dog and just sit for the rest of the game, cheering only when a point or something special happens.
Now, my question is - is it really like that, or the people cheer, sing, like in England for example?

I, mean, I don't really expect organized fan groups like in Europe, torches and smoke (:D), but just going there and sitting seems a little bit dull. I always liked a rivalires in sport and when you watch people in US stadium most of them just look like they came there to chill, not actually interested in the sport/game at all.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Lagpsike_exe said:
I always liked a rivalires in sport and when you watch people in US stadium most of them just look like they came there to chill, not actually interested in the sport/game at all.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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What are you suppose to do? You cheer or boo at the appropriate moments. You don't constantly make noise. Why would you do that? Especially in football (not stupid soccer) were action only happens once every 5 min.
 
Lagpsike_exe said:
I have a question regarding American football/baseball/basketball games.
From what I saw in a number of films/TV series (LOL, yes I know, that's why I'm asking :P) the people would just come to the stadium, buy a drink and a hot dog and just sit for the rest of the game, cheering only when a point or something special happens.
Now, my question is - is it really like that, or the people cheer, sing, like in England for example?

I, mean, I don't really expect organized fan groups like in Europe, torches and smoke (:D), but just going there and sitting seems a little bit dull. I always liked a rivalires in sport and when you watch people in US stadium most of them just look like they came there to chill, not actually interested in the sport/game at all.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Your observation is mostly correct.

On the other hand, there is rarely a barbaric breakout between two opposing teams, as well.
 
R2D4 said:
What are you suppose to do? You cheer or boo at the appropriate moments. You don't constantly make noise. Why would you do that? Especially in football (not stupid soccer) were action only happens once every 5 min.
Click to expand...

You are supposed to call the referee all the swearwords you ever heard in your life,
sing songs to the other team including previous said swearwords. And cheer for your team in the time left in between
 
Lagpsike_exe said:
I have a question regarding American football/baseball/basketball games.
From what I saw in a number of films/TV series (LOL, yes I know, that's why I'm asking :P) the people would just come to the stadium, buy a drink and a hot dog and just sit for the rest of the game, cheering only when a point or something special happens.
Now, my question is - is it really like that, or the people cheer, sing, like in England for example?

I, mean, I don't really expect organized fan groups like in Europe, torches and smoke (:D), but just going there and sitting seems a little bit dull. I always liked a rivalires in sport and when you watch people in US stadium most of them just look like they came there to chill, not actually interested in the sport/game at all.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

It depends. Baseball and football are a bit different because they are slower sports with brief spurts of action and lots of inaction. In football for instance, you don't want to make noise when your team has the ball. However, when your team is on defense many stadiums (it really depends on the fanbase of a given team) get VERY VERY loud. They are also both sports where most plays are simply average. You might get 5-10 really "big" plays in either of the games... that is when you see people go absolutely nuts is when one of those things happens.

Basketball can be very different. In that sport (especially college basketball) you are more likely to jump up and down and make noise the whole game. Or at least when your team is on defense.

Fans making noise in US sports is done a bit more strategically and a bit less drunkenly than my experience with European sports.
 
Pantheon Of The Lesser said:
two mediocre teams going at it. forget the World Cup, i would love to see them both getting a free pass into an Euro Cup, as special guests.
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Well, we did take down the Euro champs, so....

ok so it will never happen again but still
 
Masta_Killah said:
Because there is no 'future' in continuing to play soccer in the US. Football on the other hand can land you scholarships to the best universities in the nation. And then there's the possibility of going pro. This applies to basketball and to a lesser extent, baseball. Basketball follows the same formula. Being good will land you at a prestigious university and a chance at going pro. Baseball does the same, but has the minor league system in place after college.
Click to expand...
I don't think 9 year olds are thinking about the financial future of what sport they're playing when they switch from soccer. :D

I think it's a little more indirect than that. The financial future of football being that much greater than soccer in the States means that you can turn on ESPN 15 hours a day and find football coverage, switch to a channel (NFL Network) that is nothing but football, see football players/teams in advertisements and promotions all over the place, etc.

Kids who have never seen a football game in their lives could probably name a few players (like Tom Brady), but I would bet that even a lot of the kids that PLAY soccer couldn't name any players.
 
loosus said:
Your observation is mostly correct.

On the other hand, there is rarely a barbaric breakout between two opposing teams, as well.
Click to expand...


StoOgE said:
It depends. Baseball and football are a bit different because they are slower sports with brief spurts of action and lots of inaction. In football for instance, you don't want to make noise when your team has the ball. However, when your team is on defense many stadiums (it really depends on the fanbase of a given team) get VERY VERY loud. They are also both sports where most plays are simply average. You might get 5-10 really "big" plays in either of the games... that is when you see people go absolutely nuts is when one of those things happens.

Basketball can be very different. In that sport (especially college basketball) you are more likely to jump up and down and make noise the whole game. Or at least when your team is on defense.

Fans making noise in US sports is done a bit more strategically and a bit less drunkenly than my experience with European sports.
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Thank you, I understand it a bit better now.
 
Monroeski said:
I don't think 9 year olds are thinking about the financial future of what sport they're playing when they switch from soccer. :D

I think it's a little more indirect than that. The financial future of football being that much greater than soccer in the States means that you can turn on ESPN 15 hours a day and find football coverage, switch to a channel (NFL Network) that is nothing but football, see football players/teams in advertisements and promotions all over the place, etc.

Kids who have never seen a football game in their lives could probably name a few players (like Tom Brady), but I would bet that even a lot of the kids that PLAY soccer couldn't name any players.
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Well, that is part of it. Of course it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy at some point. Sport heroes play baseball, basketball or football. Kid wants to emulate them. It's also part of the culture. I can tell you exactly how many pick up games of soccer I played as a kid in grade school. zero. I played a ton of baseball, basketball and football though.

But even if the kid was a huge soccer fan for some reason the infrastructure for developing talent in the US is geared towards those big sports anyway. So a naturally gifted athlete is going to have a hard time getting good instruction in soccer vs football or basketball.

The financial thing certainly does play a role in it as well though. The kid may not be thinking about that, but their parents are. I know if I had a younger kid that was a freak athlete (very unlikely unless my future wife/gf cheats on me :lol) I would feel obligated to steer them towards a sport that would be lucrative for them in the future. I think almost any parent would want to look out for the well being of their kid... which means if you have a 1 in a million freak athlete of a son you are going to make sure they are using those gifts in a way that will be to their best benefit. And in the US that means something other than soccer.
 
Masta_Killah said:
From there, the only choice is go to tryouts for the MLB, which is a joke when you think about the time and dedication it took to reach the pro level.
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Yeah, a soccer player would probably be laughed at for trying out.
 
Always-honest said:
is that the pacino football movie?

edit: surely not JUST football skills?
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More or less yes.

You still have to meet the schools minimum published requirements for admittance.

For instance I went to the University of Texas. At UT the published minimums are not even close to enough to actually get into the school because it is a good school. Something like 20-30% of applicants are actually accepted to UT. However, a really talented football player will get in by just hitting those minimum requirements.

So you can't be a complete idiot, but yes being a good athlete means a free ticket into almost any university in the country.

I took a class with several of our "star" football players once. They were all significantly dumber than the student population at large. Also, the classes they take are known as "cake" classes. They take easy courses as part of a worthless degree program because they have to maintain good grades to continue to play their sport.

There are of course exceptions to this rule as there are some very intelligent football players.. but many get further in life than they otherwise would have as a result for sure.. even if they aren't good enough to go pro.
 
StoOgE said:
More or less yes.

You still have to meet the schools minimum published requirements for admittance.

For instance I went to the University of Texas. At UT the published minimums are not even close to enough to actually get into the school because it is a good school. Something like 20-30% of applicants are actually accepted to UT. However, a really talented football player will get in by just hitting those minimum requirements.

So you can't be a complete idiot, but yes being a good athlete means a free ticket into almost any university in the country.

I took a class with several of our "star" football players once. They were all significantly dumber than the student population at large. Also, the classes they take are known as "cake" classes. They take easy courses as part of a worthless degree program because they have to maintain good grades to continue to play their sport.

There are of course exceptions to this rule as there are some very intelligent football players.. but many get further in life than they otherwise would have as a result for sure.. even if they aren't good enough to go pro.
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okay.. thanx..
 
Always-honest said:
okay.. thanx..
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I should point out this is only a real problem with football and basketball. The reason is both of those sports have rules that you must wait 3 years after high school (1 year in the case of basketball) before you are able to enter the NFL or NBA drafts. Taking 3 years off the sport is not an option so you play in college. Some basketball players have started going to Europe to play pro ball instead of playing college basketball in the US.. but with football there isn't really anywhere else to go.

Colleges are willing to look the other way on getting star players because college sports in the US are VERY popular. The University of Texas' athletic program brought in 120 million dollars last year. It is the most profitable, but there are several others that bring in about as much money. I know in Euroland college athletics aren't a big deal at all... but it is a point of pride for alumni in the states.

Baseball is different because you can go pro right out of high school. So all the really really talented players are drafted right away and they don't play in college.
 
Fuck me, out of all the great footie events to happen, this one gets its own OT thread? Kill this shit please. So god damn pointless. Same retards who comment on any digg/reddit thread about footie have to always say the same cliche, trite, ignorant shit about football/soccer. Don't even acknowledge these morons with a defense of the beautiful game.

Seriously, this thread is worthless. As much as I cheer for the US when ever they play, the Gold Cup is a joke, even when we win.
 
Eagle 209 said:
babble in their native tongue...which after taking 5 years in grade school and 3 semesters of college I still can't make heads or tails of...
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Not real quick on the uptake huh?

Eagle209 said:
Its hard for people whose country is most noted for being south of another one.
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And by the by FUCK YOU! this coming from an American
 
StoOgE said:
I should point out this is only a real problem with football and basketball. The reason is both of those sports have rules that you must wait 3 years after high school (1 year in the case of basketball) before you are able to enter the NFL or NBA drafts. Taking 3 years off the sport is not an option so you play in college. Some basketball players have started going to Europe to play pro ball instead of playing college basketball in the US.. but with football there isn't really anywhere else to go.

Colleges are willing to look the other way on getting star players because college sports in the US are VERY popular. The University of Texas' athletic program brought in 120 million dollars last year. It is the most profitable, but there are several others that bring in about as much money. I know in Euroland college athletics aren't a big deal at all... but it is a point of pride for alumni in the states.

Baseball is different because you can go pro right out of high school. So all the really really talented players are drafted right away and they don't play in college.
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thanx again!. now i understand this a little better.
 
you know the sad thing here?

the US have a LEGITIMATELY decent team. Fitness levels are very high, decent number of players plying their trade through Europe, VERY encouraging performance in the pre-WC tournament.

I must admit that during the WC in Japan where the US were robbed by Germany - prior to that game i was somewhat pissed that suddenly all the "Soccer?! what shit!" americans were suddenly "U S A ! U S A ! "

then i was left with the "shit - Germany or the US!!!" quandry as an English man! ;)

No one wants to be in the same group as the US, they'll be in pot 4 i'd have thought and they could well be part of a "group of death" in South Africa.

Argentina :bow :bow
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as an englishman it always pisses me off that a whole slew of my countrymen can't see beyond "OI MARADONA HANDBLALLSS" to see what a FRIGGING FOOTBALL GOD he was. That goal he scored against us prior to that?! Genius.

and the handball? shit, desire to win - do whatever. Something that the english seem to lack at that level. I do not blame or cry cheat to Argentina or Maradona , again - all part of the drama of football!
 
Eagle 209 said:
It is an annoyance everytime Mexico plays a soccer game. I live down by the border. The fans always clog up Burgers and Beer and drink and babble in their native tongue...which after taking 5 years in grade school and 3 semesters of college I still can't make heads or tails of...and every so often erupt in a "goooooooooool" fest. Its annoying. I understand though. Its hard for people whose country is most noted for being south of another one.
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You are probably one of the worst junior members I've seen from the last 'wave' of juniors. Ugh...
 
oh yeah, the Mexico game - didnt realise until today it was the Gold Cup final - i'd um have thought both teams would have wanted to win that!
 
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