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Mexico i love you but WTF?

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legalizing drugs would be a start and help but the Cartels are very entrenched and they would try to find other sources of money. Now I doubt that they would find anything on the level of the money that drug running brings in and over time it would begin to hurt them and slow them down, and I would bet a few of them would even go 'legit' to continue to sell drugs to the US.

There is no quick and easy answer here though. A combination of things need to happen to start to chip away at their power base and even if it started today would take years to finish. But it can't finish unless it starts.
 
charsace said:
Mexico is a strange place. I think they are having a civil war right now, but most people are to scared to do anything, but they want the US to come in and fight. People within the country are going to have to band together and start doing something significant if they want the US to help. Bush sending troops to Iraq the way he did pretty much killed the chance of US taking a similar type of action in regards to mexico. People are going to have to band together like they have in Libya or Egypt. The US doesn't want to go in, fight the whole battle and then have to stay around. Iraq was a huge mistake that no one wants to repeat.
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I think the US "invading" Mexico would have a shitload of negative political ramifications on the world stage, the drug cartels are also like the islamic terrorists in that they have no separate nation away from the common people. If the US army wiped out a town of people thought to be run by a cartel, only to find out the intel was bad....yikes.
 
truly101 said:
I think the US "invading" Mexico would have a shitload of negative political ramifications on the world stage, the drug cartels are also like the islamic terrorists in that they have no separate nation away from the common people. If the US army wiped out a town of people thought to be run by a cartel, only to find out the intel was bad....yikes.
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and the hispanic population in the US is pretty high that would really make things touchy here
 
truly101 said:
I think the US "invading" Mexico would have a shitload of negative political ramifications on the world stage, the drug cartels are also like the islamic terrorists in that they have no separate nation away from the common people. If the US army wiped out a town of people thought to be run by a cartel, only to find out the intel was bad....yikes.
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This. We send soldiers over there and end up killing civilians and the people of mexico and the world would be against us. It would be Iraq all over again.

Mexico needs a revolution. A good sized group that the US can support. Then we can give some military help.
 
Where do the drug cartels get military grade weapons?

People in the US don't have access to military grade weapons made after 1986 I believe. and the idea that the cartels are getting automatic weapons from the US in bulk is nuts. The only way to make that happen is if large amounts of people were in on it and allowing it to take place.

Importing from africa and ex soviet bloc countries would probably be much cheaper and easier.
 
Zeke said:
so fucking let them find a another business. I rather that happen and stop pissing away billions of dollars a year on a bullshit drug war. At least then police would have more man power and funding to crub other ventures. They will always find away to make money you won't ever stop them. You can however restrict and try to control the amount of damage done by them.
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They won't just find another business. They will fight to keep theirs and then they wil find another business. It will require forced removal, so if they can't get rid of them while it's illegal, how would they do it while legal?

Options?:
- Keep it illegal and continue the long fight against drugs.
- Make it legal and fight the long fight against the drug cartels for control
- The disgusting solution of legalizing the drug trade and then letting the cartels run it- basically absolving them of past/current crimes.
 
Yoritomo said:
Where do the drug cartels get military grade weapons?

People in the US don't have access to military grade weapons made after 1986 I believe. and the idea that the cartels are getting automatic weapons from the US in bulk is nuts. The only way to make that happen is if large amounts of people were in on it and allowing it to take place.

Importing from africa and ex soviet bloc countries would probably be much cheaper and easier.
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Most of the weapons used by the drug cartels are AK-47... I'm pretty sure you can get those at US gun shops.
 
JGS said:
They won't just find another business. They will fight to keep theirs and then they wil find another business. It will require forced removal, so if they can't get rid of them while it's illegal, how would they do it while legal?

Options?:
- Keep it illegal and continue the long fight against drugs.
- Make it legal and fight the long fight against the drug cartels for control
- The disgusting solution of legalizing the drug trade and then letting the cartels run it- basically absolving them of past/current crimes.
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I can't tell if this is supposed to be a serious post or not
Yoritomo said:
Where do the drug cartels get military grade weapons?

People in the US don't have access to military grade weapons made after 1986 I believe. and the idea that the cartels are getting automatic weapons from the US in bulk is nuts. The only way to make that happen is if large amounts of people were in on it and allowing it to take place.

Importing from africa and ex soviet bloc countries would probably be much cheaper and easier.
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you can buy just about anything in the US as long as its not fully auto. I can drive to the store right now drop $400 and walk away with a semi-auto AK47. Its also not hard to mod them into full auto.
 
Zeke said:
I can't tell if this is supposed to be a serious post or not
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Why wouldn't it be anymore serious than the cartels need to just pack up and go when Mexico legalizes drugs? lol
 
charsace said:
Mexico is a strange place. I think they are having a civil war right now, but most people are too scared to do anything, but they want the US to come in and fight.
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Nope. Few if any mexicans at all want the US army on our soil. We want you to fix shit on your side of the border, and help from there the best way you can: prevent drugs from entering your country, money from being spent on it and the funding of the cartels (a lot of banks are on it as well, as long as there is money that needs to be cleaned.) Also, help prevent the huge amount of guns that leave your country reach the cartels. I understand we need to cooperate and all of this stuff, but you could do your part from there.

People within the country are going to have to band together and start doing something significant like they did in Egypt and Libya if they want the US to help. Bush sending troops to Iraq the way he did pretty much killed the chance of US taking a similar type of action in regards to Mexico. The US doesn't want to go in, fight the whole battle and then have to stay around. Iraq was a huge mistake that no one wants to repeat.
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Very different situations I would say. I don't deny that my country and many of its citizens are in a state of apathy and fear right now, but we need a different kind of revolution, not a violent one where people are taking the streets. I appreciate if you think your troops could help, but the reality is that we don't want them here.
 
JGS said:
Why wouldn't it be anymore serious than the cartels need to just pack up and go when Mexico legalizes drugs? lol
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If its legal you think the anyone is going to buy fuck all from cartels? Not to mention the price would fall hard and fast what fucking good is running drugs now that someone can go to a shop and get what they need instead of a shady dealer on the corner? You would be losing money and resources instead of gaining a profit. Which means cartels losing huge amounts of cash.
 
Fernando Rocker said:
Most of the weapons used by the drug cartels are AK-47... I'm pretty sure you can get those at US gun shops.
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You can get a semi auto AK47 from a us gun shop. To make it full auto you'd need to specifically modify the receiver to accommodate the parts necessary to allow full auto fire. To obtain a legal Full auto AK47 would cost 5 figures or more. Just a full auto registered legal pre 86 receiver is in the thousands.

This means they're buying crippled weaponry and doing their own gunsmithing which will end up pretty damned expensive or the majority of their AK47s are actually ex soviet bloc parts that are filtered in some other way.
 
inky said:
Nope. Few if any mexicans at all want the US army on our soil. We want you to fix shit on your side of the border, and help from there the best way you can: prevent drugs from entering your country, money from being spent on it and the funding of the cartels (a lot of banks are on it as well, as long as there is money that needs to be cleaned.) Also, help prevent the huge amount of guns that leave your country reach the cartels. I understand we need to cooperate and all of this stuff, but you could do your part from there.



Very different situations I would say. I don't deny that my country and many of its citizens are in a state of apathy and fear right now, but we need a different kind of revolution, not a violent one where people are taking the streets. I appreciate if you think your troops could help, but the reality is that we don't want them here.
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lol it would be easier to start a revolution than to stop the smuggling of illegal goods. Smuggling happens everywhere and during all times throughout the history of mankind. If it was easy to stop smuggling there would be no alcohol in the US. And even if the US could do it, then you would have to get every country on the earth to stop because the cartels would find other ways to move drugs and get guns.
 
googleplex said:
Easy, legalized the drugs and break the cartels.
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This. Mexico should legalize and regulate drugs, in the same way it does alcohol (yes, I know, also a drug). Fuck the U.S. and their insane drug policies (and I say that as an American).
 
Yoritomo said:
Where do the drug cartels get military grade weapons?

People in the US don't have access to military grade weapons made after 1986 I believe. and the idea that the cartels are getting automatic weapons from the US in bulk is nuts. The only way to make that happen is if large amounts of people were in on it and allowing it to take place.

Importing from africa and ex soviet bloc countries would probably be much cheaper and easier.
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They import them from other countries but they also get them from defectors from the Military and Federal Police. One of the more powerful cartels, The Zetas, was formed by ex miltary and recruit lots of people from the Army which gives them connections to weapons and powerful people.
 
luxarific said:
This. Mexico should legalize and regulate drugs, in the same way it does alcohol (yes, I know, also a drug). Fuck the U.S. and their insane drug policies (and I say that as an American).
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Having Mexico legalize drugs without the U.S. following suit would be pointless.
 
Zeke said:
If its legal you think the anyone is going to buy fuck all from cartels? Not to mention the price would fall hard and fast what fucking good is running drugs now that someone can go to a shop and get what they need instead of a shady dealer on the corner? You would be losing money and resources instead of gaining a profit. Which means cartels losing huge amounts of cash.
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Unless you're saying that drug production will be US homegrown, do you think anyone is going to be stupid enough to go work at the local NAFTA certified pot plant when the cartels have no problems retaliating in extremely gruesome ways?

Again, if the government can't handle them now, why on earth would people think they could handle them later when they have legal dealers they have to distinguish from added to the mix?
 
Operations said:
Having Mexico legalize drugs without the U.S. following suit would be pointless.
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You don't think that legalization in Mexico would put huge pressure on the U.S. to follow suit? Because it would. Legalize it, regulate it and tax it, using the taxes to fund drug treatment. Society can still continue to discourage drug use, the way that excessive alcohol consumption is discouraged. And I have no problem mandating clean drug tests for anyone involved in a profession where life-or-death decisions have to be made (e.g., transportation, health).
 
luxarific said:
You don't think that legalization in Mexico would put huge pressure on the U.S. to follow suit? Because it would. Legalize it, regulate it and tax it, using the taxes to fund drug treatment. Society can still continue to discourage drug use, the way that excessive alcohol consumption is discouraged. And I have no problem mandating clean drug tests for anyone involved in a profession where life-or-death decisions have to be made (e.g., transportation, health).
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The entire world could probably legalize drugs and yet the US wouldn't budge. Mexico's best chance is to end up like Colombia, i.e. a relatively lower rate of terrorist and criminal activities vs. the 80s.
 
I have some friends in the Yucatan area right now, is that under siege as well? I told them I wouldnt be surprised if they didnt come home :X
 
If Mexico had any authority with which to regulate drugs they wouldn't have a problem. Letting people get away with it isn't any different then the current state. The cartels have the power, so who cares what the laws are?
 
Mexico legalizing drugs wouldn't do shit. The market is in the US not Mexico. Until its regulated here in the US, things won't change. For those of you saying legalizing drugs wouldn't help the situation, just remember the end of prohibition. Sure, the mobs moved on to other things but they were more micro in scale like prostitution/gambling.
 
Luixfern said:
Mexico legalizing drugs wouldn't do shit. The market is in the US not Mexico. Until its regulated here in the US, things won't change. For those of you saying legalizing drugs wouldn't help the situation, just remember the end of prohibition. Sure, the mobs moved on to other things but they were more micro in scale like prostitution/gambling.
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Shadow of the BEAST said:
Just about every industrialised nation has the same drug policies as the us.

The problem here is not the us. Its mexico.
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The problem is its an archaic drug policy that has failed and will continue to fail.
 
Chuck said:
Hell yes! I want to be able to go to a convenience store and buy Marlboro greens!

2465414510_96760976cf.jpg
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Funny you should mention that. I read that a lot of the illegal pot farmers in CA were against the recent legalization attempt (even voting or giving money to defeat it) because they fear this exact thing. Rumors (among growers) were that Phillip Morris was ready to trademark certain popular names and go after prime growing areas. No idea if there is any truth to PM having plans to enter the market or it was just paranoia among the growers.
 
Shadow of the BEAST said:
You want corporations selling, advertising, normalising recreational drug use?
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yea because its not already. Movies, music, popular culture its already all over the place.
dave is ok said:
Legalize drugs and the cartels will just move on human trafficking, forced prostitution, organ selling - etc etc etc
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yea and?
 
Luixfern said:
Worked for alcohol.
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alcohol wasn't banned from the beginning of its uptake.

the problem is the gangs themselves. legalizing drugs is just gonna make them want to move to non-legalized drugs or prostitution or human trafficking, whatever makes them money.


legalizing drugs will only degrade society further, and the only thing that would force these drug cartels to do is to make more money than they ever did and move on to other nefarious deeds.

anyone who thinks these drug cartels are trying to "help people get the drugs they want" is ludicrous.
 
I'm gonna get a lot of heat for this but fuck it.

Instead of getting stoned on Earth Day or whatever that day is, all potheads should get organized and stop buying weed/other drugs too. Grow your own if you have too but what's important here is that you could potentially save the lives of many innocent people.

Eh, not as clear and concise but I hope you get the point.
 
maxxpower said:
I'm gonna get a lot of heat for this but fuck it.

Instead of getting stoned on Earth Day or whatever that day is, all potheads should get organized and stop buying weed/other drugs too. Grow your own if you have too but what's important here is that you could potentially save the lives of many innocent people.

Eh, not as clear and concise but I hope you get the point.
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Word.
 
davepoobond said:
alcohol wasn't banned from the beginning of its uptake.

the problem is the gangs themselves. legalizing drugs is just gonna make them want to move to non-legalized drugs or prostitution or human trafficking, whatever makes them money.


legalizing drugs will only degrade society further, and the only thing that would force these drug cartels to do is to make more money than they ever did and move on to other nefarious deeds.

anyone who thinks these drug cartels are trying to "help people get the drugs they want" is ludicrous.
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they fucking do this NOW! You know what the difference is? They aren't going to make enough money to field a small army or pay off entire countries. Billions of dollars saved each year and thousands of lives spared seems more then worth it. You won't ever get rid of crime or gangs or drugs for that matter flush that mickey mouse shit out of your head. The only thing we can hope to do is control and limit as much damage as possible.
 
davepoobond said:
alcohol wasn't banned from the beginning of its uptake.

the problem is the gangs themselves. legalizing drugs is just gonna make them want to move to non-legalized drugs or prostitution or human trafficking, whatever makes them money.

legalizing drugs will only degrade society further, and the only thing that would force these drug cartels to do is to make more money than they ever did and move on to other nefarious deeds.
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Quick question, if they are willing to burn casinos to the ground and leave bodies hanging on overpasses, why in the world aren't those nefarious trades more prominent?

Seems to me that there simply isn't nearly as much money in it.
 
Fernando Rocker said:
Our currently President is not useless... he is the best we have had in decades.
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hahahahahahahahahaha, nice one. You do know he approved the FOBAPROA back in the 90s, and now you and your children are gonna bail out the debt that banks accumulated back in the devaluation of 94? He's trying to get her sister get elected as governor for some state. He is well known to be an alcoholic. He didn't even win the last presidential elections, he cheated his way into the presidency. And you're foolish to claim that he had "balls" to declare war on gangs. Things were normal, until he had to mess with them, what a stupid decision by him. He was forced by Obama to declare war on them. He tried to get Hank Ron indicted by placing guns in his house, but the operation totally backfired. We have this saying where I live. If you vote for PRI, they'll steal from the people, but they share some of it. But if you vote for PAN, they steal it all for themselves, and they don't share. Its the truth. There's a reason why PRI will win the upcoming presidential elections.
 
Heart Attack said:
hahahahahahahahahaha, nice one. You do know he approved the FOBAPROA back in the 90s, and now you and your children are gonna bail out the debt that banks accumulated back in the devaluation of 94? He's trying to get her sister get elected as governor for some state. He is well known to be an alcoholic. He didn't even win the last presidential elections, he cheated his way into the presidency. And you're foolish to claim that he had "balls" to declare war on gangs. Things were normal, until he had to mess with them, what a stupid decision by him. He was forced by Obama to declare war on them. He tried to get Hank Ron indicted by placing guns in his house, but the operation totally backfired. We have this saying where I live. If you vote for PRI, they'll steal from the people, but they share some of it. But if you vote for PAN, they steal it all for themselves, and they don't share. Its the truth. There's a reason why PRI will win the upcoming presidential elections.
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Fuck the PRI.

This country is in this state because of them. Fuck them and their supporters.
 
Fernando Rocker said:
Fuck the PRI.

This country is in this state because of them. Fuck them and their supporters.
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LOL, nice argument. You're probably in your early teens. There's a reason why PAN appealed to the young generation during the election of 2000 when Fox won. Young people are stupid, and they thought that PAN would do be the better choice. It was even worse!!!!!! The same thing keeps going on. Ask any teen/young adult which party are they gonna vote on, and they reply.. PAN, without knowing shit about the candidates nor what they offer. The problem with Mexico is that there is such a huge population, and very few people are educated. I'm willing to bet you this. The next president of Mexico will be from PRI. His name is Enrique Pena Nieto. He is one of Salinas puppets, and people will eat up his "suave" image. The country is really fucked, and i see nothing that will save it, unless civil war.
 
For the record, cartels already control many ilegal markets other than the drugs one. They distribute all the backup movies in the black market here in Tabasco for example, they even put their fucking logo on the sleves lol htey have no fucking shame. If there's a market of ilegal goods chances are a drug cartel controls it.

Also, fuck Calderon, the rumour of his party and his goverment protecting "El Chapo Guzman" are too loud to be ignored, many cartels complain about this openly all the time and it's supossed a big reason why they turned so agressive towards innocent people.
 
There is a lot of self hating from both sides here. Americans blaming themselves for the problem and Mexicans saying they can't do anything about the problem. The only thing that is going to change things is for the country to hit rock bottom. It's getting there. Soon enough all tourism will stop. It's going to be up to good people of Mexico to take back their country. There will be a point where excuses like "We can't legally buy guns." won't work.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Uribe, right? Man was a good President, he stopped taking shit from FARC (who had essentially been given their own piece of the country) and didn't take any crap from Chavez who kept trying to meddle in Colombian affairs.
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As a Brazilian I apologize that former (Lula) and current (Dilma) government treat them as a romanticised "revolutionary group", not as the criminals they are.

maxxpower said:
I'm gonna get a lot of heat for this but fuck it.

Instead of getting stoned on Earth Day or whatever that day is, all potheads should get organized and stop buying weed/other drugs too. Grow your own if you have too but what's important here is that you could potentially save the lives of many innocent people.

Eh, not as clear and concise but I hope you get the point.
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No, you are correct. This is the exact point why I have no sympathy for the recreational (ilegal) drugs users. Everytime you challenge them on the subject, here comes the overused "victimless crime"/"it only affects me" bs excuse. Most want to get high but for sure don't want drug dealers (and the related violence) around their neighbourhoods.

To be honest I would have no problem with legalization if it followed strict guide lines like alcohol use (although I think the current ones are still too light towards drunken drivers, for example).

Another thing important to notice is how corruption must not be tolerated in any way, even the small "tip" to get a document faster or the "lunch/beer/donut money" to avoid a ticket. The situation on México and, as people have posted here, in Greece shows that once it becomes endemic things go sour and recovery becomes a difficult struggle.
 
I have most of my family living in Michoacan.

My parents went to Sahuayo early this month for the usually glorious fiestas del patron Santiago and they said it was pretty awesome. Things are usually pretty quiet this side of Michoacan. Its when you go down to tierra caliente when shit gets ugly with La Familia and Los Caballeros Templarios killing eachother that makes certain cities/towns very unsafe.
 
Fëanor said:
I have most of my family living in Michoacan.

My parents went to Sahuayo early this month for the usually glorious fiestas del patron Santiago and they said it was pretty awesome. Things are usually pretty quiet this side of Michoacan. Its when you go down to tierra caliente when shit gets ugly with La Familia and Los Caballeros Templarios killing eachother that makes certain cities/towns very unsafe.
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Sahuayo?
oLGbM.jpg

:P JK, mang. I've always wanted to visit Michoacán.
 
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