people shouldn't have to pay for games running on servers either.
if I buy a game, the developer/publisher should already have the money he needs for servers.
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MGO3 highlights why I can't justify Paid Online
- Thread starter Klossen
- Start date
people shouldn't have to pay for games running on servers either.
if I buy a game, the developer/publisher should already have the money he needs for servers.
Arent you proving my point? TLOU was p2p on PS3, and you could play for free. Its still p2p on PS4 (afaik) but its locked behind a paywall now. Isnt that silly? Shoudnt an online fee sort of give you a better service instead of forcing you to pay because your friends pay and you want to play with them?
Wow, thats quite the reach.
I own TLOU on PS3 and i enjoyed the multiplayer for a good while. If i wanted to do the same on PS4 for the same exact service, i'd have to pay. Why is that?
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
I think you're judging PSN based on a bunch of things that have literally nothing to do with PSN. You're having issues connecting to Konami servers which have always been notoriously bad (and you don't pay for), you're connection to PSN (the actual thing you pay for) is probably fine. Even within MGO the poor connections aren't Konami's fault, its a p2p game so it's almost entirely dependent on the host and your connection to him, when I host rooms it's almost perfect for everyone involved. Yea it's a stupid way to do online nowadays, but it holds no bearing in your argument against PSN.
Why? He's talking about paying for PS+ or Xbox Live, they should have strong guidelines for servers or netcode. I know impossible to enforce and they just want money, but it shouldnt be on a game by game basis of shit that works vs doesnt work
7DollarHagane
Banned
yes and the PS4/XB1 should run all games at 1080p/30 minimum and their controllers shouldn't have multiple issues and they should have had 1tb hard drives and...
it is what it is and it's not going to change because the majority of players accepted it. If people stopped paying they should stop charging.
7DollarHagane
Banned
because multiplayer on PS4 is part of PS+, that's why. There's no good reason. There's no excuse. That's how it is. What do you want? Is this acceptable to you? No? then don't pay for it. That's the only way things change.
I enjoy the PS+ games and don't mind paying $40/yr. I am not stupid for thinking so or lesser than anyone else.
7DollarHagane
Banned
yeah this is all pretty silly. Sure, it would be better if it was free, but it's not. It's not like any of us are going broke because we have to pay $40/yr for these services.
Steam downloads games and updates of equivalent sizes, and it actually does so quite a bit faster than any other network these days (at least for me). I don't pay for it. The same goes for GoG Galaxy, uPlay, Origin and so on and so forth. Hell, the Wii U does it.
The only reason you have to pay for online services on PS4 and XB1 is because MS demonstrated that there is a sufficiently large number of costumers who will do so.
Forgot the super discounts on already sale prices
I consider it a scam and therefore I won't put any money towards it even if that means never playing my favorite console multiplayer game again.
The fact that the PC online scene and services are leagues ahead in literally every aspect and are free just makes me think how much of a cynical bastard one must be to come up with the "for the players" garbage.
At least Microsoft isn't trying to negate the fact that their paywall service is unjustifiable bullshit.
I really feel bad for the people who don't have a decent PC this gen.
The fact that the PC online scene and services are leagues ahead in literally every aspect and are free just makes me think how much of a cynical bastard one must be to come up with the "for the players" garbage.
At least Microsoft isn't trying to negate the fact that their paywall service is unjustifiable bullshit.
I really feel bad for the people who don't have a decent PC this gen.
I was mostly addressing the defense force who tried to justify the paywall with "added plus value" (as if it didnt exist before) and "server costs". Wich is a bit mad.
Obviously what people do with their own money is none of my business. If you want to pay 40$/y for a can of smoke you are free to do so. At least you seem to be aware of it.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Tbh, I do it for the games. I think I only play Destiny online on my PS4. And of course the cloud save.
I have a question though. We know, that F2P games and subscription based games don't need plus or the developer can decide if people need plus or not.
Is this just for these games or does this rule, that the developer/publisher decides, what games you need plus for online gaming?
I have a question though. We know, that F2P games and subscription based games don't need plus or the developer can decide if people need plus or not.
Is this just for these games or does this rule, that the developer/publisher decides, what games you need plus for online gaming?
Mass_Pincup
Banned
It's just for F2P games, publishers gain nothing from restricting their potential userbase.
Acerac
Banned
Paying to access online gaming when you have the internet has always felt silly to me. A couple gens ago I had the original Xbox, last Gen I had a PS3, now I just use my PC and Wii U for gaming. I miss out on a few exclusives, but there are more than enough titles between the two that I'm not bothered.
I understand that the market has spoken and most are willing to pay to access these sometimes iffy servers, but it just feels like a shitty practice to me. It's like P2W microtransactions in fully priced games, I don't care if everyone else is doing it, I'm happy to spend my money elsewhere.
I understand that the market has spoken and most are willing to pay to access these sometimes iffy servers, but it just feels like a shitty practice to me. It's like P2W microtransactions in fully priced games, I don't care if everyone else is doing it, I'm happy to spend my money elsewhere.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I don't need ps plus for FF14 or am I remembering this wrong?
Lalalandia
Member
My understanding is if your game has a purchase cost it goes in the PS+ pile, if your game has online functionality separate from direct multi-player then it depends so in MGSV you can(?) do FOB stuff w/o PS+ but not MGO or in Destiny you can connect to their servers and do patrol but not strikes or raids w/o PS+. If you're F2P then you can offer all online functionality for free but I believe the currency must be sold only through PSN (as with WoT on XBox) and not via the devs website.
Good point sub games don't require PS+ but I believe time is only sold via PSN?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I can buy Final Fantasy at retail on disc if that's what you're asking.
Well, that's a bit different from the part I quoted in your previous post. I don't feel like "my friends play online so i should play online". I do it because I want to.
Now, would I prefer multiplayer on the ps4 to be free for everyone? Of course, I'd love that. Everybody should be able to enjoy Rocket League or TLOU online because they are fantastic games.
Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to change any time soon, or that it's a matter of voting with my wallet. I have absolutely no illusion as to what I'm paying for. It's just how it is.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Indies are not games confirmed.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
That's because it has a subscription on it's own.
Son Of Sparda
Member
When everything is "Indie" then why not just call it what it is instead of generalizing it to "Games"?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I know, you wrote it is 'just' for F2P games on PS4.
Indies are not games confirmed again.
Srey Plaughtered
Member
For retail/nonf2p it's probably dependent on what the publisher decides but it might not just be one strict rule. Like how you can do some minor FOB stuff without PS+ (I don't recall the specifics) while MGO requires PS+ to play.
Lalalandia
Member
Sorry I meant for FF14 on PSN I believe you have to buy the subscription or time cards from PSN rather than via Square Enix as you can for the PC client (ie Sony get theirs from the retailer margin instead of PS+)
Kenzodielocke
Banned
You can buy gamecards online or at retail too. You don't have to purchase anything on PSN for the subscription.
Lalalandia
Member
Ahhh cheers for the clarification, I could only see PC time cards on Square Enix's site so I presumed it was all via PSN or PSN specific time cards
The nutshell of how I view PS+ better put than I did across a lot more posts!
staticneuron
Member
If the game still connects to PSN to update trophies or rely on the backend for integrated communication then yes. No matter what game you are in you can set up a party and chat away. That is a sony service. Some games, such as battlefront, only relies on sony's parties for in game chat and friend list requests. The system that tells the game if a friend (on PSN) is playing the same game, is of course, Sony's. But that doesn't have anything to do with how a third party game chooses to do matchmaking or their bad netcode. This is simply evidenced by the numerous other games that do not have this same issue. Think of part of the PSN price as paying for a ventrillo server. Your are paying for how to connect to other players on the platform outside of the game again not only from communication, but from friend lists, broadcasts, and status updates. Game devs like that because they no longer have to create and ingame solution for some features and just rely on sony services for some. For games which this would not work (like some MMOs) they do not require PS+ to play.
EDIT: But TBH, if you don't feel like the service isn't warranted..... don't use it. The people that enjoy it aren't going to hold your hand or pay the service for you so it is an entirely personal choice.
OP is being obtuse with his point about MGO specifically but there is no denying that when you compare PSN/XBL subscription fees and what they offer in return to alternatives elsewhere (often free) it's a terrible proposition. It doesn't really matter, though, because people on those consoles have no alternative and value by itself doesn't necessarily dictate demand/price. Otherwise Apple would be out of business.
Coffee Dog
Banned
No, you can't justify paid online, but that's because you also don't have any friends that play on console, or care. You're an outlier who is only on the service because of a trial, paid online isn't being sold to you.
People will gladly have Sony take them over a barrel because of convenience, they could raise the price by $5 every other year and they'd hardly lose anyone because of how the overall market has shifted towards nickel and diming premium users. Frankly, I think Sony is throwing money away if the price isn't raised at least once this generation given how much they're selling.
People will gladly have Sony take them over a barrel because of convenience, they could raise the price by $5 every other year and they'd hardly lose anyone because of how the overall market has shifted towards nickel and diming premium users. Frankly, I think Sony is throwing money away if the price isn't raised at least once this generation given how much they're selling.
grandwizard
Member
Paying for p2p multiplayer is and always has been a joke. Sony did a good job adding value to PSPlus with the IGC but putting the multiplayer function into it and then having games with poor performance and bad download speeds just makes it seem like a rip off.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
I'm stuck in the last gen (mostly - roommates have XB1, PS4 and WiiU. Nice!). This has many disadvantages, but one cool thing is I get a really clear take on paid online experiences vs free online experiences.
I play Virtua Fighter on 360 and PSN. The difference in connection quality is pretty tangible, honestly. Right now, since I'm confined to PSN (gotta renew XBL), I've been playing that recently. It's mostly OK but much less stable. I will play the same people on XBL and the connection will be better and with fewer, if any spikes.
This is the second year I am resubscribing to Xbox Live specifically to play VF even though I can play it for free on PSN.
I play Virtua Fighter on 360 and PSN. The difference in connection quality is pretty tangible, honestly. Right now, since I'm confined to PSN (gotta renew XBL), I've been playing that recently. It's mostly OK but much less stable. I will play the same people on XBL and the connection will be better and with fewer, if any spikes.
This is the second year I am resubscribing to Xbox Live specifically to play VF even though I can play it for free on PSN.
Sakura
Member
The value of indie games is far lower than that of retail games though, so if you are talking about which games you are getting for 'free' I think it does make a difference.
AzureSkies
Member
Doesn't stop me from enjoying the indie PS+ games far more than the previous retail games though.
Sakura
Member
Well sure, there is nothing wrong with that, I've enjoyed some of the indie games they've offered.
But when people are talking about what they are getting for PS+, then they generally want a little more.
For example, Japanese PS+ this month for PS4 literally only has Teslagrad for Free Play. Apparently Rocket League is supposed to come at some later date.
If you are paying a monthly subscription for the 'free' games, then that is kind of disappointing. If you get a full retail game, then it feels like you are getting a bit more bang for your buck.
Oh my apologies, i really worded my previous post poorly, i should proofread things!. Didnt mean like you are forced to play online because your friends do so. But sometimes friends dictate the platform you end up playing on and you have to swallow an arbitrary fee for no reason other than the fact you want to play with them. Thats really silly.
While i dont think voting with our wallet will do a lot, since the majority of the userbase already showed they dont mind paying for it... But i also dont think saying "thats just the way things are" and accepting their shit is helpful.
What is Sony taking that money for then? They dont offer any dedicated servers NOR quality of service. Basically just middleman tax "cus they can".
Pankratous
Member
Seems like you really overestimate how much money devs have.
How is KojiPro LA's buggy game (going by your account) and fucking idiotic servers anything to do with PSN or XBL?
Some people aren't clued up on things, just ignore him.
Sakura
Member
That's the point...
If their servers have nothing to do with PSN then why do you have to pay Sony to play on them...
They could at the very least impose quality standards for games that require their service to play.
Like I said earlier, because people will pay them for it?
If someone came up to my door telling me they'd pay me $50 for a glass of tap water, you bet your ass I'm gonna take that $50 and hand the guy some tap water. Why give away for free what fools will pay for?
Sounds like you need the power of the cloud! Picked the wrong console.
Seriously though, PS Plus is required for online for PlayStation, but multiplayer gaming is just part of what you get. The subscription also gets you access to all the other services including data backups, discounts, free games, all the social services, etc.
Picking one games implementation of multiplayer is not a very comprehensive evaluation.
You can get dedicated servers for specific games on PlayStation too - not MGO3 though.
The PC is also not immune from janky multiplayer.
Try CoD Advanced Warfare or Destiny for a better test.
Seriously though, PS Plus is required for online for PlayStation, but multiplayer gaming is just part of what you get. The subscription also gets you access to all the other services including data backups, discounts, free games, all the social services, etc.
Picking one games implementation of multiplayer is not a very comprehensive evaluation.
You can get dedicated servers for specific games on PlayStation too - not MGO3 though.
The PC is also not immune from janky multiplayer.
Try CoD Advanced Warfare or Destiny for a better test.
Sakura
Member
No shit...
The OP is saying why they personally can't justify paying for it, and people are responding that it is on Konami and nothing do with Sony. That is the point. How do you justify paying Sony so that you can play P2P on Konami's shitty netcode? You can't really, you just do it because you have to.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You kind of missed the point. He is not complaining about multiplayer gaming being bad, he is complaining about having to pay to play online to only then get substandard service such as p2p as opposed to dedicated servers.
Or just switch to the platform that doesn't charge for online.
Moon_frogger
Member
Ps+ and Xbox live aren't dedicated server services. I've never defended paying for online but to me this complaint in particular is a bit silly. The cost of these services would in no way shape or form cover the cost of providing dedicated servers for every single game for the duration of the consoles life. Such a service, were we to foot the bill, would cost much much more than the current asking price. Dedicated servers should be up to the publisher, not the platform holder. Having said that, online shouldn't be locked behind any kind of paywall. I personally put my money where my mouth is and simply didn't buy a console this gen exclusively PC and wii u. Absolutely no regrets.
I dont know the costs of funding dedicated servers honestly, im sure someone else can answer this question for us, but the issue is: If dedicated servers are out of the question, and Sony is not going to guarantee any sort of quality control for the games on their platform... what exact is the consumer paying for, really?
Edit: Actually an acceptable solution would be to let people host their own servers. Heck even purchase them from "select" services would be better than how it is now.
But what if someone wants to just play and not get this incredible! added value? The same added value that was on PS3 and didnt interfere with the online paywall, to be precise.
I hope you realize its the same bollocks that M$ tried to push people by locking Netflix and similar services behind gold back in the 360 gen.
"Added value!!"
Ridicolous.
