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[Sadist]

Still people like me are understandably dissapointed that the game looks that much worse from the Naked Sample Demo. I mean just the texture quality is such a huge step backwards.

Still as you said, it's first gen software, and the core game itself is amazing. It's just a hard sell when a similar priced HD Collection might come out at the same time even.

I'm not ignoring that and I absolutely understand why people are dissapointed.

All around it's just a bad decision from Konami. If they didn't announce the HD collection posters wouldn't be as dissapointed in the Naked Sample - actual game footage difference. Also, Yoshi.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I'm not ignoring that and I absolutely understand why people are dissapointed.

All around it's just a bad decision from Konami. If they didn't announce the HD collection posters wouldn't be as dissapointed in the Naked Sample - actual game footage difference. Also, Yoshi.

Forget yoshi... penis camou putting the solid into snake^^ God that sounds dirty. lol.

Anyway, does anyone know if this game will be playable at the showfloor? Are we going to learn more about the content that's on the card or will they keep that under wraps for a while longer?

 

[Sadist]

I thought Kojima confirmed a playable demo on the showfloor.

 

[jett]

I'm not saying it isn't a great game. It's just weird when people buy systems for ports.

MGS3 is my favorite game of all-time. I was seriously considering buying a 3DS solely on the basis that a remake of the game was coming.

 

[Jocchan]

Its 3D fighters on 2D background. Its the same excuse
it looks really good...but aint a technical marvel

I'm sorry, but what version are you talking about?
SSF4 on the 3DS has 3D fighters on 3D backgrounds. SF4 on the iPhone has 2D fighters on 2D backgrounds.

 

[jett]

I'm sorry, but what version are you talking about?
SSF4 on the 3DS has 3D fighters on 3D backgrounds. SF4 on the iPhone has 2D fighters on 2D backgrounds.

Backgrounds in SF4 3DS are pretty barebones, dude.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Jett, the first guy says its like an iPhone port up, even though the iPhone uses 2D assets, and then f@lus comes in and says it has 2D backgrounds which it doesn't. The backgrounds ARE 3D. Yes, the backgrounds are more limited than the HD console counterparts, but that's not exactly surprising considering how good it looks on those platforms. The point was basically brought up to counter the misinformed knowledge and BS some people were spouting.

Still people like me are understandably dissapointed that the game looks that much worse from the Naked Sample Demo. I mean just the texture quality is such a huge step backwards.

False memories imo

 

[Vinci]

KojiPro really killed this one prematurely. RE4 all over again.

Yes. An ingenious move.

EDIT: Seriously, it seems like there's all of two or three companies that get the concept that they're meant to sell the shit they produce, not reduce it to redundancy prior to its release.

 

[Jocchan]

Backgrounds in SF4 3DS are pretty barebones, dude.

They are simpler and they're completely static, but they are 3D. This is why I'm asking for clarification.

 

[M3d10n]

By now they could as well be using bigger cards. As far as I recall it the 2GB cards limitation was merely due to production not being ramped up before launch. I somehow doubt that the game is squeezed into a 2GB card. Then again, stranger things happened and RE2 came to the N64.

The thing has been out for only three months. It's not that the 4GB carts cannot be made yet, it's most likely that they are still very expensive. Heck, I'm almost sure SSFIV3D uses a 1GB cart, not a 2GB one (I don't remember Nintendo saying devs couldn't use smaller carts).

The 3DS has 96MBs of RAM available for games. That significantly more than a PS2. The presence of additional dedicated VRAM is rumored, but not confirmed. And even if it exists, it's unknown if the textures are required to be on it in order to be rendered (which would be very stupid, since the 96MBs would sit there unusable for graphics - on the Wii textures can be anywhere in memory). So there's probably no reason, specs-wise, for low-res textures: it's mostly caused by games still using small cartridges.

It's likely that most ports from games that were on DVDs to 3DS carts will get downgrades for at least one year after launch (unless they vastly underused their discs).

 

[miksar]

False memories imo

Even if so, that demo was made in two-three months. Games are supposed to look better with more development time, not the other way.

 

[M3d10n]

Backgrounds in SF4 3DS are pretty barebones, dude.

So are the backgrounds in Virtua Fighter 2 on the Saturn:

Therefore it's no better than the Genesis version, right?

 

[fabricated backlash]

The thing has been out for only three months. It's not that the 4GB carts cannot be made yet, it's most likely that they are still very expensive. Heck, I'm almost sure SSFIV3D uses a 1GB cart, not a 2GB one (I don't remember Nintendo saying devs couldn't use smaller carts).

The 3DS has 96MBs of RAM available for games. That significantly more than a PS2. The presence of additional dedicated VRAM is rumored, but not confirmed. And even if it exists, it's unknown if the textures are required to be on it in order to be rendered (which would be very stupid, since the 96MBs would sit there unusable for graphics - on the Wii textures can be anywhere in memory). So there's probably no reason, specs-wise, for low-res textures: it's mostly caused by games still using small cartridges.

Could be yeah. At this point its speculation. I simply hope they will redo some of the textures in the final game. Especially the ground and rock textures need to be redone and have some normal mapping applied.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Even if so, that demo was made in two-three months. Games are supposed to look better with more development time, not the other way.

Sounds like we're now moving the goalposts of the argument.

It looks as good as the sample demo if not better. The only things I can see missing are little bits of normal mapping and extra beardiness on Snake's face. The demo looked great by virtue of being a glorified cut-scene and having much friendlier camera angles.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Sounds like we're now moving the goalposts of the argument.

It looks as good as the sample demo if not better. The only things I can see missing are little bits of normal mapping and extra beardiness on Snake's face. The demo looked great by virtue of being a glorified cut-scene and having much friendlier camera angles.

There is nothing in the current game that looks even close to the Naked Sample demo. Goalpost moving my ass.

The sorry state the visuals are in the actual game shows that Konami never greenlighted a budget needed to get the visuals to this proof of concept level.

I would happily eat crow if Konami were to actually upgrade the textures and effects for the final release, but I highly doubt that at this point.

 

[Luigiv]

The thing has been out for only three months. It's not that the 4GB carts cannot be made yet, it's most likely that they are still very expensive. Heck, I'm almost sure SSFIV3D uses a 1GB cart, not a 2GB one (I don't remember Nintendo saying devs couldn't use smaller carts).

The 3DS has 96MBs of RAM available for games. That significantly more than a PS2. The presence of additional dedicated VRAM is rumored, but not confirmed. And even if it exists, it's unknown if the textures are required to be on it in order to be rendered (which would be very stupid, since the 96MBs would sit there unusable for graphics - on the Wii textures can be anywhere in memory). So there's probably no reason, specs-wise, for low-res textures: it's mostly caused by games still using small cartridges.

It's likely that most ports from games that were on DVDs to 3DS carts will get downgrades for at least one year after launch (unless they vastly underused their discs).

The part in bold is wrong. Jeremiah Slaczka himself confirmed the inclusion of VRAM in the official Nintendo reaction interviews last year. How much there actually is remains a mystery though.

Edit: Here's the video if you need proof.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Sounds like we're now moving the goalposts of the argument.

It looks as good as the sample demo if not better. The only things I can see missing are little bits of normal mapping and extra beardiness on Snake's face. The demo looked great by virtue of being a glorified cut-scene and having much friendlier camera angles.

Wow.

The sample came at a time people were going Lolz PSP Graphics!!!11!! and proved them very wrong by looking a lot better than MGS 3 on PS2. Now we get what can be called at best a game that is on par with MGS 3 on PS2 and we get this absurd statement from you. Boggles the mind.

 

[Rich!]

Sounds like we're now moving the goalposts of the argument.

It looks as good as the sample demo if not better. The only things I can see missing are little bits of normal mapping and extra beardiness on Snake's face. The demo looked great by virtue of being a glorified cut-scene and having much friendlier camera angles.

Dude. I went to the Bristol 3DS event in Feburary, and I saw the Naked Snake demo, in 3D, with my own eyes. On a 3DS.

It was better than this. And I'm fucking disappointed.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

MGS3 is my favorite game of all-time.

As it should be.

 

[Chinner]

Just watched the Naked Sample video. Look great and they actually bothered to lip sync everything, shame that can't be said about this trailer.

 

[Lonely1]

To be fair, PS2 games with shaders (xbox?), and in 3D, is all that was promised with the 3DS.

 

[jackdoe]

Wow.

The sample came at a time people were going Lolz PSP Graphics!!!11!! and proved them very wrong by looking a lot better than MGS 3 on PS2. Now we get what can be called at best a game that is on par with MGS 3 on PS2 and we get this absurd statement from you. Boggles the mind.

Exactly. It was THE game that wowed me from the Nintendo E3 presser last year. Sadly, this game is nowhere near that proof of concept, which is a shame. I would have loved a remake of that caliber of one of my favorite games.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I was the Bristol event too.

Wow.

The sample came at a time people were going Lolz PSP Graphics!!!11!! and proved them very wrong by looking a lot better than MGS 3 on PS2. Now we get what can be called at best a game that is on par with MGS 3 on PS2 and we get this absurd statement from you. Boggles the mind.

I must be the only person here with a set of fully functioning eyeballs

Here are some shots of the Naked Sample Demo:

Here is MGS 3DS

Look at the backgrounds in the naked sample, beyond the trees etc. Plain dusk-esque / yellowy / orange skies, nothing of any detail. Now look at the actual game. Beams of light, a lot more trees / foliage...


What's missing (in my view):

- some normal mapping that was in the demo
- some specular lighting effects, shine / gloss on Snakes face, some textures such as the aligator texture
- slightly less texture detail on the ground and on rock surfaces. Likely a result of the game having to do a lot more than the scripted demo, and the fact you can roam through big environments.

 

[Mr_Brit]

To be fair, PS2 games with shaders (xbox?), and in 3D, is all that was promised with the 3DS.

Are you saying that 3DS got downgraded? The units at E3 were more than able to run a game much better looking than this game(which is on par with MGS3 on PS2 at best). If you show something that good looking you can't expect people not to be disappointed when an MGS3 port is delivered.

 

[kuroshiki]

Are you saying that 3DS got downgraded? The units at E3 were more than able to run a game much better looking than this game(which is on par with MGS3 on PS2 at best). If you show something that good looking you can't expect people not to be disappointed when an MGS3 port is delivered.

No. It's just that most likely Konami made a compromise here and there (realizing that it can't perform demo-like quality with actual game play thrown in)
3DS doesn't look that much powerful unfortunately.

 

[Magicpaint]

I don't know why people are defending this port. Not only is it being made obsolete by a more complete collection on the HD consoles, it is also nothing like the Naked Sample Demo we were initially promised. You can't fault people for feeling let down by this.

 

[Lonely1]

Are you saying that 3DS got downgraded? The units at E3 were more than able to run a game much better looking than this game(which is on par with MGS3 on PS2 at best). If you show something that good looking you can't expect people not to be disappointed when an MGS3 port is delivered.

Well. Yes, this look a notch bellow the Naked Sample and I understand people being disappointed based on that. Just replying to the comments that state that 3DS games look like a PS2 with shaders (and bump mapping). Which means is a notch above last gen consoles. Instead of the NGP, which is closer to current gen consoles.

 

[magash]

No. It's just that most likely Konami made a compromise here and there (realizing that it can't perform demo-like quality with actual game play thrown in)
3DS doesn't look that much powerful unfortunately.

Explain Resident Evil on the 3DS. The 3DS without a doubt is capable of running the Naked demo with full gameplay.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I don't know why people are defending this port. Not only is it being made obsolete by a more complete collection on the HD consoles, it is also nothing like the Naked Sample Demo we were initially promised. You can't fault people for feeling let down by this.

I don't get it either. If I want the PS2 version repackaged with the same textures and stuff I'd get the HD collection. The demo made it look like a remake instead of a port with some yoshis instead of Apes.

The argument that it still looks as good as a PS2 game is not exactly flattering after Konami put their goals beyond that with the naked sample demo.

Still, who knows, maybe this is just a playable version, and some of the features are still missing, but I highly doubt it.

 

[StuBurns]

Koji-Pro overreaching is hardly surprising, their mouths are historically bigger than their bellies.

 

[GaimeGuy]

No. It's just that most likely Konami made a compromise here and there (realizing that it can't perform demo-like quality with actual game play thrown in)
3DS doesn't look that much powerful unfortunately.

Actually I think what might have happened was they saw the reaction to the upgrading of the game and decided to just do a 3DS port and go with the full blown HD collection for consoles.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I was the Bristol event too.



I must be the only person here with a set of fully functioning eyeballs

Here are some shots of the Naked Sample Demo:

Here is MGS 3DS

Look at the backgrounds in the naked sample, beyond the trees etc. Plain dusk-esque / yellowy / orange skies, nothing of any detail. Now look at the actual game. Beams of light, a lot more trees / foliage...


What's missing (in my view):

- some normal mapping that was in the demo
- some specular lighting effects, shine / gloss on Snakes face, some textures such as the aligator texture
- slightly less texture detail on the ground and on rock surfaces. Likely a result of the game having to do a lot more than the scripted demo, and the fact you can roam through big environments.

All looks the same to me. Some folks just like to be picky I guess.

 

[Effect]

No. It's just that most likely Konami made a compromise here and there (realizing that it can't perform demo-like quality with actual game play thrown in)
3DS doesn't look that much powerful unfortunately.

Essentially the difference between tech demo and full game, especially a game that is reusing older assets (them not willing to reinvest millions makes sense) where as the demo might have been all new that was quickly put together.

Even then I always felt Resident Evil footage was the better (it should as it is a new game and not a remake like this is) looking so MGS 3DS isn't some example of what the system is really capable of. However that doesn't mean those blown up screens are an accurate example of what the game will look like, which is what some keep thinking or using. Neither does enlarged video footage on youtube. However PS2 level or worse is unacceptable going forward I feel mainly because the GameCube was more powerful then the PS2. The 3DS should be capable of running Cube level and Wii level assets but have better shaders and games should benefit from the smaller screen and resolution. Graphics normally aren't the end all for me but there is a level that I find acceptable and not acceptable in the context of what the device is capable of. Rushed launched games tend to get a pass though and this isn't a launch game or even a launch window game.

I don't understand Konami's decision to actually undercut this game though. I bet it will look pretty good with the 3D on. Those that might have been interested in getting this have more reason to get the HD collection now if only because of the amount of value of the purchase they'll be getting compared to this.

 

[UncleSporky]

Wow.

The sample came at a time people were going Lolz PSP Graphics!!!11!! and proved them very wrong by looking a lot better than MGS 3 on PS2. Now we get what can be called at best a game that is on par with MGS 3 on PS2 and we get this absurd statement from you. Boggles the mind.

I forgot that the PS2 could render games in 3D.

You know, with all the extra resources it takes to render a frame twice from slightly different angles.

 

[Mr_Brit]

I forgot that the PS2 could render games in 3D.

You know, with all the extra resources it takes to render a frame twice from slightly different angles.

The PS2 version runs at 3 times the resolution which is a much greater processing cost than running in 3D.

 

[radioheadrule83]

3DS will only ever come to Cube level geometry at best, and that's with the PICA200 clocked at the full 200mhz, not the 133mhz its underclocked to now. Geometry wise, people are going to see a lot of games that aren't as complex as the best cube titles. A LOT of them. There are already smartphones that can push more polys than the 3DS. I would adjust your expectations accordingly. That said, games on 3DS will have much better effects than the Cube and the Wii are capable of.

Maybe if/when they stop the underclocking later on down the road, there'll be one or two surprising looking games. As always, its not the performance under the hood but what you get out of it that matters -- RE Revelations shows that a good engine, good art and good design go a long way to making something look good. Even Mercenaries, actually. Watch DJmizuhara and lazybones18's videos in this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=432139&page=2

 

[UncleSporky]

The PS2 version runs at 3 times the resolution which is a much greater processing cost than running in 3D.

3 times? Am I forgetting something and the game was in 720p back in the day?

640x480 = 307200

800x240 + 320x240 = 268800

Very comparable. And yet the PS2 version lacks the IQ gained from that extra dimension.

 

[XPE]

You know what those shots remind me of last gen (ps2, gcube, xbox) games pc ports, where they had the same textures but because of the higher res they looked a lot sharper.

 

[jett]

3 times? Am I forgetting something and the game was in 720p back in the day?

640x480 = 307200

800x240 + 320x240 = 268800

Very comparable. And yet the PS2 version lacks the IQ gained from that extra dimension.

This is dumb.

 

[UncleSporky]

This is dumb.

Yeah? The processor doesn't have to worry about dealing with those other pixels at all?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'd be willing to bet this is an Occam's Razor situation.

Naked Sample was made at KojiPro, MGS3D is outsourced with Konami guidance. Ergo, the difference in quality between the two.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Yeah? The processor doesn't have to worry about dealing with those other pixels at all?

The 3DS isn't rendering anything intensive on the bottom screen.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Can someone post some screenshots that definitively show this downgrading?

 

[UncleSporky]

The 3DS isn't rendering anything intensive on the bottom screen.

The graphics still use up a lot of valuable VRAM.

If you'd rather leave out the bottom screen, that's still 192000. The 3DS renders two thirds of what the PS2 does, it's not 3 times as much.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Can someone post some screenshots that definitively show this downgrading?

Interested to know whether you agree or disagree with my assessment here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28251763&postcount=623

I think the things making people feel its been downgraded are:

a) the ridiculous size screenshots intended for print

b) the trailer that shows no upgrades to character models like Major Zero and Medic. But we never saw them in the Naked Sample anyway.

c) the lack of one or two show-off effects that were in the Naked Sample cut-scene / demo as I mention in my linked post.


I still think it looks good FWIW.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Interested to know whether you agree or disagree with my assessment here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28251763&postcount=623

I think the things making people feel its been downgraded are:

a) the ridiculous size screenshots intended for print

b) the trailer that shows no upgrades to character models like Major Zero and Medic. But we never saw them in the Naked Sample anyway.

c) the lack of one or two show-off effects that were in the Naked Sample cut-scene / demo as I mention in my linked post.


I still think it looks good FWIW.

I think your post shows that there's very little difference, so I agree with you.
So many bawwing about a gigantic downgrade though, you'd think they'd be able to muster a few screengrabs which show the extent of if.

 

[Carlisle]

I'm still getting it and the HD too. Having the greatest game of all time in my pocket to play anywhere anytime was enough for me. Adding 3D and some camera gimmicks is just icing on the sweet cake.

 

[John Harker]

How is this made obsolete by HD Collection? Since when was handheld to console comparisons even the treated as the same platform?

Is this the next-generation argument? HD Consoles invalidate Portables now?

The fact remains, as of now, this is the definitive portable experience of MGS3.
Stop saying it's irrelevant because an HD console version is announced, they are entirely different platforms and gameplay experiences.


(Assuming a NGP version isn't officially announced, then have at it. That would be more fun to read.)

 

[jett]

How is this made obsolete by HD Collection? Since when was handheld to console comparisons even the treated as the same platform?

Is this the next-generation argument? HD Consoles invalidate Portables now?

The fact remains, as of now, this is the definitive portable experience of MGS3.
Stop saying it's irrelevant because an HD console version is announced, they are entirely different platforms and gameplay experiences.


(Assuming a NGP version isn't officially announced, then have at it. That would be more fun to read.)

The "Transfarring" logo in MGS2 and MGS3 seems to suggest that it's indeed coming to NGP.

 

[Leona Lewis]

The "Transfarring" logo in MGS2 and MGS3 seems to suggest that it's indeed coming to NGP.

Does Kojima respond to tweets? He's been quite active lately, so if someone can confirm it would make this whole situation a lot less awkward. Imagine if Sony features MGS HD collection for PSVita on Monday and Nintendo features this game in their press conference the next day.