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MGS: Snake Eater 3DS - New Trailer [Update Rumor: Delayed?]
- Thread starter Speedymanic
- Start date
WrenchNinja
Member
No way dude. No way. You're talking about the face buttons acting as the aiming controls? Man screw that.Boney said:
Snake Eater is a huge game, remaking every area like the Naked Sample demo would cost a fuck ton.
That's why I never believed it'd be Snake Eater, I thought it'd be small areas, something of a retelling of that story, more segmented like PW, and with some sort of MP. They went an even less effort root, and a less interesting one, but I can see why.
I would still love Naked Sample, they should put it on the store, I'd buy it.
That's why I never believed it'd be Snake Eater, I thought it'd be small areas, something of a retelling of that story, more segmented like PW, and with some sort of MP. They went an even less effort root, and a less interesting one, but I can see why.
I would still love Naked Sample, they should put it on the store, I'd buy it.
AgentChris
Member
At this point, I don't think they give a fuckEasy_D said:
The cart size being the problem means that it's because they're being cheap, whereas the alternative is it being the fault of the 3DS hardware. It's a lesser of two evils type of thing.Boney said:
I'm assuming that they changed their minds and went with the 2GB card instead. I don't see how else the compression makes sense. As you said, it just means more work.Easy_D said:
People assumed (myself included) that you were implying that there was a limit on the actual 3Ds cart that forced Konami to downgrade, not that Konami cheaped out. You probably need to make yourself clear when you post as to avoid confusion. It happens a lotBurntPork said:
Edit: now we are on the same page!
I've always had that problem. lolEasy_D said:People assumed (myself included) that you were implying that there was a limit on the actual 3Ds cart that forced Konami to downgrade, not that Konami cheaped out. You probably need to make yourself clear when you post as to avoid confusion. It happens a lot
Edit: now we are on the same page!
There's another reason this port sucks ass: MGS3 games pushed the PS2 hardware hard and it did so by being entirely designed around it's peculiar architecture with little to no hardware abstraction.
Most specifically, the techniques used to get fast render performance on a PS2 are the very things a developer should avoid like the plague on any GPU starting from the GC's and Xbox' GPUs. The way the scene objects are organized, the way materials are handled, the way characters are animated... everything that worked on the PS2 was the opposite of what works on a more modern GPU, and the 3DS is no exception.
The team behind this port is obviously "mechanically" porting the original PS2 source code and obviously lots of things simply don't work as they should causing hilariously bad results on the 3DS.
Anyone remember the Xbox MGS2 port, which was missing various effects and had many slowdowns? Does this means the Xbox "sucked" compared to the PS2? Or that MGS2 was simply programmed too close to the PS2 metal that it wouldn't run well elsewhere without a complete re-write?
Most specifically, the techniques used to get fast render performance on a PS2 are the very things a developer should avoid like the plague on any GPU starting from the GC's and Xbox' GPUs. The way the scene objects are organized, the way materials are handled, the way characters are animated... everything that worked on the PS2 was the opposite of what works on a more modern GPU, and the 3DS is no exception.
The team behind this port is obviously "mechanically" porting the original PS2 source code and obviously lots of things simply don't work as they should causing hilariously bad results on the 3DS.
Anyone remember the Xbox MGS2 port, which was missing various effects and had many slowdowns? Does this means the Xbox "sucked" compared to the PS2? Or that MGS2 was simply programmed too close to the PS2 metal that it wouldn't run well elsewhere without a complete re-write?
lostinblue
Banned
Well, they weren't supposed to be making a by the book port of a 2004 game, they should be doing whatever else they've shown at first.BDGAME said:
That's a factor yes, but the game is not really incompatible with 3DS in any clashing way, it's seems like it's being neglected though, it went from ambitious to being hopeless on their own account. They could do so much better.
There's lots of reasons for that, actually. One of them was lack of budget and time; Shenmue (and the next example, Okami) may have cult following, but are not Metal Gear Solid, they don't warrant the same budgets.BDGAME said:
The other reason would be that despite the fact Xbox looked impressive on paper it was really riddled with bottlenecks. It had lots of hit on textured polygons compared to textured and often actually used the "polygon trick" to be able to render more textures per cycle, effectivelly hampering the polygon throughput (which wasn't the problem, really), on top of that transparencies had a hit on it.
Dreamcast was regarded as a texturing beast, and transparencies were pretty much free, all you want free. Hence why they abused them. Only to, whilst porting realizing it was a Dreamcast feature.
I've read an interview where they actually said it clearly had problems on how to process transparencies in textures (not to mention Dreamcast texture compression was proprietary/not S3TC), although I can't seem to find it.
The 128 bit console that matched DC strengths was GC, like DC it was pretty much a texturing monster and could do lots of transparencies without real hit. It had other problems though, like lack of storage space and RAM, like DC ironically, but Shenmue 2 from a technical standpoint would have been better suited for it.
Well, you do know it was done by a team of 3 guys at peak, as a really low budget port with really strict deadlines and parts of the source code missing.BDGAME said:
If it had more recources, they could have nailed it.
Anyway, those are two very specific games, I don't see much or anything that 3DS couldn't recreate, really, not even the foliage thing, and the textures is clearly a framerate issue. Of course adapting it is a lot of work I'm sure, but it seems like they threw up the towell already.
While what they've shown originally was leaps and bounds beyond the PS2 standard. It's just sad.
I reckon doing the Tales one properly could take a while because the source code for it was clearly a mess. But they came out lazy, no doubt.BDGAME said:
lostinblue
Banned
Certainly true. I remember MGS2 Xbox port was revealed to have slowdown in scenes with snow and rain falling because those were done using the CPU fillrare on the PS2, and they kept it that way on the Xbox (while Xbox CPU didn't output the same massive floating point performance because it relied on the GPU to do it.M3d10n said:
Like "modern" systems do, really; but PS2 architecture was hardly "modern" even by the time it came out.
They could have done way better, clearly.M3d10n said:
But like you said they "mechanically" ported it.
Ah, no, transparencies were far from free on the Dreamcast. The PowerVR2 raison d'être was maximizing performance on low bandwidth by doing per-pixel sorting of polygons so pixels were only ever written to once. Layered transparent polygons caused pixels to be written multiple times, eating precious fillrate. The rocket launcher smoke trail in Quake 3 was a big offender.lostinblue said:
Maybe you're referring to transparency sorting, which was automatically done (per pixel) by the GPU (alongside with material batching). It was not free, there was an additional performance hit on top of the fillrate, but it was "free" in development-time: programmers didn't have to worry about it and thus Dreamcast games had zero code for dealing with transparencies or sorting things by material, which would blow up on the face of anyone trying to port them to "normal" GPUs.
No this is both incorrect and completely illogical. The resolution is throttled to 400*240 in 2D and that's why some (most certainly not all) games get free SSAA in 2D mode. If it remained in 800*240 in 2D mode then there would be no logical reason for free AA since the framebuffer would be the same in both modes.Easy_D said:
PdotMichael
Banned
Easy_D said:
No, 2D mode is just 400*240 too, because that's how the Autostereoscopic-technology works.
No it's not. It's an arbitrary restriction. It's theoretically possible for the system to output at 800*240 in 2D mode because the parallax barrier turns off in 2D mode. However Nintendo chose not to give the system that ability for some unknown reason. Maybe they don't like narrow pixels, maybe they want to keep the effective pixel ratio between the two screens 1:1 at all times. Who knows.PdotMichael said:
Doesn't it simply render everything twice with two slightly different camera angles, which the parallax barrier then splits up into two different images which are then displayed to your respective eyes? Which is why the resolution is higher in 3D mode.blu said:
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Yes. Pretty much everything is rendered twice. Some secondary render targets don't need rendering twice, eg. decal & volumetric shadows, but all geometry that goes into the main render target is done twice.Easy_D said:
PdotMichael
Banned
Maxrunner said:
Gnah, the real ingame stuff ist not that good looking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA0MxjIW0ig&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99F3PxaJT8Y&feature=relmfu
I like the graphics of Metal Gear Solid 3ds more than this.
walking fiend
Member
even at enlarged resolution, it looks considerably better than RE4, lighting alone puts it head and shoulders above RE$; unless you want to troll, there's no way that a partially downgraded/upgraded MGS looks better than RE:RPdotMichael said:
You picked such excellent shots to prove your point.walking fiend said:even at enlarged resolution, it looks considerably better than RE4, lighting alone puts it head and shoulders above RE$; unless you want to troll, there's no way that a partially downgraded/upgraded MGS looks better than RE:R
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Mr_Brit said:
Not true. It basically renders in splitscreen when 3D is turned on. There's one 800 x 240 framebuffer that consists of two separate 400 x 240 frames rendered side by side.
The 3DS has to render the whole scene twice in order to achieve the 3D effect, there's no way to get around this requirement (and the same applies to all other devices that render in S3D)
Even so, 3DS should be able to eat MGS3 for breakfast - even when rendering in 3D (and we even have solid proof, provided by Konami themselves in the form of The Naked Sample!)
This is a lazy portjob, end of. It's not the first in gaming history (see MGS 2 Xbox) and it won't be the last.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Man said:
A controllable tech demo. The only game logic really missing was the AI (and that is not going to have a huge effect on the framerate at all)
Oh and you're clearly blind if you think that MGS 3 looks better than RE: Revelations or even RE Mercs.
walking fiend
Member
I could pick even better looking shots at their expected resolution with more lighting and effects going on around that part where I took the shot, but it wouldn't be this useful. I picked a shot to show both lightings in a similar situation, namely you can look at candles and compare the lighting or how they effect their surrounding, and you may compare close shots of person and candle models.Mr_Brit said:
Regardless, RE4 lighting on PS2 looks like shit. There's a comparison video to show how it was downgraded from GC to PS2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qz0LbKpZtI
and actually, I believe the screenshot I used it is for GC or Wii version.
and some more shots from various scenes.
PS2
RE:R, from the same scene at various times:
(and no, I didn't chose the worse PS2 shots, or I could have used this)
screens I have put are from actual gameplay with enemies that attack you, at some scenes several of them.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Perhaps I misread your original post, but it was essentially saying 3DS stereoscopy = 'only doubling the resolution'.Mr_Brit said:
Doubling the resolution =/= stereoscopy.
Stereoscopy == doubling the resolution AND doubling the vertex shading work.
walking fiend
Member
MGS 3 is a PS2 game as long as I can remember, and RE4 was regarded one of the best looking PS2 games (beside GoW, SotC and Black); I wanted to show what 3DS can do compared to PS2 and why MGS is just a very lazy port. (And I can't tell whether my original shot is from PS2 or GC)Chinner said:
Luigi would be a better game to base 3DS vs GC on, and MK7 to compare it to Wii.
edit: actually seems not all the shots were from the PS2 version, at least this on in particular, is from the Wii version, wonder how does the PS2 version look...
PdotMichael
Banned
All your pictures of RE4 for PS2 and GCN/WII are better looking than this:
(small rooms and just 1 or 2 enimies on the same time)
The bullshots (http://www.giga.de/verzeichnis/bilder/Resident_Evil_Revelations__5_.jpg) and CGI-stuff (http://www.gamesaktuell.de/screenshots/original/2010/06/Resident_Evil_Revelations__4_.jpg) are nice but the ingame stuff is not that hot
(small rooms and just 1 or 2 enimies on the same time)
The bullshots (http://www.giga.de/verzeichnis/bilder/Resident_Evil_Revelations__5_.jpg) and CGI-stuff (http://www.gamesaktuell.de/screenshots/original/2010/06/Resident_Evil_Revelations__4_.jpg) are nice but the ingame stuff is not that hot
PdotMichael said:All your pictures of RE4 for PS2 and GCN/WII are better looking than this:
(small rooms and just 1 or 2 enimies on the same time)
The bullshots (http://www.giga.de/verzeichnis/bilder/Resident_Evil_Revelations__5_.jpg) and CGI-stuff (http://www.gamesaktuell.de/screenshots/original/2010/06/Resident_Evil_Revelations__4_.jpg) are nice but the ingame stuff is not that hot
No they arent, those have shaders too, and the fog effect, is that volumetric fog?
lostinblue
Banned
We're comparing Resident Evil's now? wow.
Since this topic became a graphic discussion, look this new video:
3DS at full power by Crytec: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNsxU2E-20&feature=player_embedded
Love this video and comments.
3DS at full power by Crytec: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNsxU2E-20&feature=player_embedded
Love this video and comments.
A obvious fake, but made a lot of vita fanboys angry and a lot o 3DS fanboys lost the good sense. hehehe
RE4 also had volumetric fog. Not to mention much, much higher poly counts then Revelations. Mind you, I do believe Revelations looks great, but to outright say it's better then RE4, I'm not so sure. Shaders are great and all, but you can't discount the effect of a good poly count. Gives everything a much more solid look.Maxrunner said: