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[Victarion]

Because Kojima.

Don't try to make sense of his bullshit.

 

[Screaming Meat]

A game where you look at posters of models and jack off, isn't a game that takes itself seriously.

What about a game where you kidnap goats or fire a remote controlled flying fist or use posters of models to distract guards or sit in a toilet playing the sounds of an intestinal apocalypse to avert suspicion...? You're cherry picking one very particular example - a hidden Easter egg no less - to make evidenced claims about the game as a whole.

MGS2 (indeed, every MGS) takes its themes pretty seriously. What I like about Kojima is how he veers between the serious and the absurd. A lot of people don't think it works but I've always found it quite refreshing.

There's a quote from Paramedic in MGS3 about Godzilla which for me sums up MGS for quite nicely. I'm gonna have to paraphrase:

"It's mostly mindless fun but it has a serious anti-nuke message as well."

MGSV is guilty of this too. Mantis, Liquid, Volgin, etc. It's not much different from MGS4.

Sure, but several orders of magnitude less so. MGS4 doesn't really stand on it's own two feet whereas V very much does, IMO.

 

[Roni]

You're really stretching those arguments thin trying to defend hack writing.

It's the other way around...

The earlier games never took themselves TOO seriously. Their messages were more important than the story themselves.

Keep living that nostalgic pipe dream then, buddy.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

THANK YOU PEQUOD

 

[KOMANI]

What about a game where you kidnap goats or fire a remote controlled flying fist or use posters of models to distract guards or sit in a toilet playing the sounds of an intestinal apocalypse to avert suspicion...? You're cherry picking one very particular example - a hidden Easter egg no less - to make evidenced claims about the game as a whole.

MGS2 (indeed, every MGS) takes its themes pretty seriously. What I like about Kojima is how he veers between the serious and the absurd. A lot of people don't think it works but I've always found it quite refreshing.

There's a quote from Paramedic in MGS3 about Godzilla which for me sums up MGS for quite nicely. I'm gonna have to paraphrase:

"It's mostly mindless fun but it has a serious anti-nuke message as well."



Sure, but several orders of magnitude less so. MGS4 doesn't really stand on it's own two feet whereas V very much does, IMO.

The goat and rocket punch are in-game mechanics, much like the playboy magazines and solar gun. I'm specifically referencing codec and story .
Mgs series always took its themes seriously, and that worked for its series. But the story was always quarky. Everyone knows Metal Gear as the game with the quarky story. You can't say the same for V. It takes itself very seriously, as evident by Kojima wanting to take to a darker place by including child prisoners and rape.

It's the other way around...



Keep living that nostalgic pipe dream then, buddy.

I'm not your buddy. Try refraining from quoting me, I'd rather not acknowledge you.

 

[Screaming Meat]

The goat and rocket punch are in-game mechanics, much like the playboy magazines and solar gun. I'm specifically referencing codec and story .
Mgs series always took its themes seriously, and that worked for its series. But the story was always quarky. Everyone knows Metal Gear as the game with the quarky story. You can't say the same for V. It takes itself very seriously, as evident by Kojima wanting to take to a darker place by including child prisoners and rape.

If I may be so bold (and call me out if I'm being out of line here), I think you're being a little disingenuous with your example. The masturbation scene is hardly "story-related". The CODEC scene is a brief Easter Egg that occurs after you use a certain combination of mechanics in a certain situation. Hardly indicative of the game "not taking itself seriously" any more than rescuing sheep from the battlefield is of TPP.

The series' stories tend to be quirky because they veer between high melodrama, reality based info dumps, cool OTT action scenes, and sillier moments that were generally relegated to CODEC and game mechanics (with a few exceptions... crotch grab in MGS2 and the disc swap in MGS4 spring immediately to mind). TPP has much fewer moments of silliness in terms of CODEC (Hamburger thing is the only one I can think of) but has just as many silly mechanics, though they aren't tied to CODEC Easter Eggs this time around. Again, I don't think this is indicative of the game taking itself any more seriously than previous entries. The subject matter is arguably darker, sure, but that isn't the same thing.

Child soldiering is a subject the game has touched upon to differing extents since MG2 (Raiden's explanation in MGS2 is heart-wrenching and entirely grounded in reality). The rape scene is in GZ, which is tonally different to TPP, necessarily lacking any humour the follow-up has.

 

[KOMANI]

You know Meat, I was two paragraphs in my response to you (nothing nasty, just my opinion how the series handles humor differently etc), and I realized, "What am I doing? I have better things to do." I really have enjoyed the series, and I have no problem with any MG. I can't sit here and waste time on theorizing and philosophizing about it, especially if it invites people in a conversation I want no part of.
I just want to add that, along with the Burger tapes, you also have the soldier shitting tape that contributes to the "silly" aspects of V. And the Butt Crack of Big Boss.

 

[Screaming Meat]

You know Meat, I was two paragraphs in my response to you (nothing nasty, just my opinion how the series handles humor differently etc), and I realized, "What am I doing? I have better things to do." I really have enjoyed the series, and I have no problem with any MG. I can't sit here and waste time on theorizing and philosophizing about it, especially if it invites people in a conversation I want no part of.

Fair enough, man. I have those thoughts a lot of the time. I like the whooshing sound they make as they pass by XD

 

[GreyOcelot]

A game where you look at posters of models and jack off, isn't a game that takes itself seriously. Mgs4 was ignoring the message of MGS2, and instead tried to focus on making sense of its canon. But it too, didn't take itself seriously when you have Meryl and Johnny getting married, and dancing B&B's that you're allowed to photo shoot. The only problem with MGS4 was it was made just to be made, not because there was a deeper meaning behind it. It's the only game to "connect" the dots. The ones before it stand on there own. Even V can't stand on its own; it needs the other games for you to take anything away from its story.
V does carry the baggage with cannon, referencing PW, Snake Eater, MG, MG 2, and MGS. The thing is it's all in the tapes. And because it's all in the tapes, you're left with a paper thin story. That's why it's accessible to newcomers... Because the real meat is in its tapes, and only a fan will listen to the tapes and understand.

Spoiler

Mission 43 isn't a tear jerker without the PW music. Strangelove's tape is useless without knowing of/playing PW, and Paz's tapes don't make sense without GZ or Peacewalker. Hell, you don't understand the hatred from Eli, unless you know MGS.

mgs2 absolutely unquestionably needs mgs1 to exist before it. having said that, i don't think that's bad thing at all. as far as "deeper meaning" goes, i agree that mgs4 doesn't have a whole heck of alot going on for it in terms of subtext (but so did mgs3 so depth =/= quality or vice versa). mgs2 is nearly completely subtext and metaphors. mgsv is somewhere in between the two.