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[BobsRevenge]

It's sort of sad watching some people so hard to defend stuff.

I thought I really, really was liking MGS4 when I was playing it, but in time I stopped lying to myself and figured out that MGS4 for me might be the biggest disappointment of this generation so far.

Honestly, all the hate is a bit much. I don't see anyone trying very hard to defend it, but there seems to be some kind of weird groupthink going on with the haters.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

I loved this game. I probably went through it at least 4 times and loved every minute of it. I even enjoyed the story in all its crazy twists and turns. Can't wait for Peace Walker.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

The first two acts of MGS4 were two of the best bits of gameplay i've played this gen. Thought it was excellent, really enjoyed it, loved the first boss and, at this point, the story isn't too far left of silly.

Then things just get progressively worse and worse and worse. The gameplay becomes much less open, the plot/story -frankly- shits itself, and the characters and cutscene become borderline "comedy". The less said about the wrap up ending the better.

I want someone to swoop in and save the gameplay from the first two acts and pad it out into a full game.

Thank heavens I am not alone, this is pretty much exactly how I feel.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I like MGS3 because of the level of control it gave you in terms of stealth. Instead of being boxed into industrial environments, the player could move through wide open jungles. Instead of spending time observing cones on a radar, the player could do more because of the camo system, and create opportunities that wouldn't otherwise exist. CQC made things so much less awkward in close-quarters situations. Removing the radar forced careful movement and observation in a way that only occasionally exists in MGS2.

Pretty much.

Also to note that hearing the wildlife was pleasing to the ears. Music was kept minimal. Very peaceful.

Going back to The End fight, I still can't get over how awesome it was. My second playthrough I didn't bother using the mic. I looked for the sun reflecting off his scope, and sneaking up behind him to try and get his camo was AWESOME.

 

[RedRedSuit]

This thread is painful to read. I mean, I know GAF is all about grand hyperbolic assertions and trumpeting one's opinion as if it's the One True Word Of God, but something about MGS really, really brings it out in people. It's not a pretty sight.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Given how much I love the series, MGS4 was a bittersweet experience for me. It was clear that a ton of effort was put into the game, but it's an absolute mess and a disappointing end to the series. Kojima was way too in love with the universe he spent all those years crafting-- feeling the need to over-explain shit that did not need explaining, providing awful twists, and endless expository wank. The gameplay felt secondary to the garbage narrative, and the trademark MGS gameplay really showed its age in light of all the great stealth/action game refinements being offered up by other developers.

 

[zoukka]

Hate is such a strong word. But totally viable here.


I fucking hated the B&Bitches.

 

[Proc]

I liked it. I saw it to the end and probably won't play it again though.

Tried multiplayer all but 3 times.

 

[NeoUltima]

The only real negative to the gameplay is Drebin's shop. Being able to buy ammo takes the challenge away.

 

[Kowak]

This thread has made me want to play the series again, hopefully will find time in May after the hectic Q1 schedule and before the world cup.(must buy a new PS2 controller, curse no BC)

 

[Why For?]

It's the 4th best Metal Gear for me.

1. Twin Snakes - fucking awesome
2. Metal Gear Solid 2 - so awesome
3. Metal Gear Solid - awesome


4. Metal Gear Solid 4 - ok, can the movies and installs stop now?







5. Metal Gear Solid 3 - Terrible terrible game.

 

[NeoUltima]

It's the 4th best Metal Gear for me.

1. Twin Snakes - fucking awesome
2. Metal Gear Solid 2 - so awesome
3. Metal Gear Solid - awesome


4. Metal Gear Solid 4 - ok, can the movies and installs stop now?







5. Metal Gear Solid 3 - Terrible terrible game.

:| ... ... ... O my.

 

[Slavik81]

the jungle in mgs3 actually looks way better in mgs4. what the fuck. mgs4's graphics on the whole are disappointing. not once did i go ''whoa'' when playing it. i guess the huge cutscene in europe (act 3, iirc) looked pretty good, but that's about it.

There's nothing mind-blowing, sure, but it looks quite good throughout.

 

[Chamber]

:| ... ... ... O my.

The worst part is Twin Snakes on top.

 

[Why For?]

:| ... ... ... O my.

I'm one of those rare gamers that prefer linearity in games. Sorry.

I'd prefer a straight and narrow path that's more like a thrill ride to be honest. I'm not even sure why.

But I'm thinking it's one of two things. I was born in 1980, so maybe because I grew up playing nothing but linear games (like we had a choice) that's just what I prefer.

Or possibly because I just own so many fucking games that my backlog just continues to rise and I just want most games to be over with so I can get to the next one.

Ironically, I just got back into Banjo Kazooie N&B after not touching it since it came out. Absolutely LOVING it.

 

[sonicmj1]

I'm one of those rare gamers that prefer linearity in games. Sorry.

I'd prefer a straight and narrow path that's more like a thrill ride to be honest. I'm not even sure why.

But I'm thinking it's one of two things. I was born in 1980, so maybe because I grew up playing nothing but linear games (like we had a choice) that's just what I prefer.

Or possibly because I just own so many fucking games that my backlog just continues to rise and I just want most games to be over with so I can get to the next one.

Ironically, I just got back into Banjo Kazooie N&B after not touching it since it came out. Absolutely LOVING it.

But MGS3 has less backtracking than any MGS game besides 4. In MGS1/Twin Snakes, you're running all around Shadow Moses (you have to run back and forth for the sniper rifle and keycard heating stuff), and in MGS2 you're running all over Big Shell to defuse bombs and stuff.

In MGS3, the only backtracking that really occurs is the bit with the C4 (almost nothing) and going to and from the base to get the card key that lets you fight The End. It's as linear as ever. You're pretty much always moving towards the top of the screen.

The path is certainly wider, but it's one of the straightest paths in the series.

 

[Why For?]

But MGS3 has less backtracking than any MGS game besides 4. In MGS1/Twin Snakes, you're running all around Shadow Moses (you have to run back and forth for the sniper rifle and keycard heating stuff), and in MGS2 you're running all over Big Shell to defuse bombs and stuff.

In MGS3, the only backtracking that really occurs is the bit with the C4 (almost nothing) and going to and from the base to get the card key that lets you fight The End. It's as linear as ever. You're pretty much always moving towards the top of the screen.

The path is certainly wider, but it's one of the straightest paths in the series.

Not sure what to say then.

Something about that game just didn't sit with me. I tried to back to it a couple of times.

I own Subsistence by the way, so I even got the version with the fixed camera and I still don't enjoy it.

I liked 4. I played it all the way through, but no way will I go back. I just can't believe ho wmuch time you spend....NOT playing in 4. Amazing, but not in a good way.

 

[Erebus]

It's the 4th best Metal Gear for me.

1. Twin Snakes - fucking awesome
2. Metal Gear Solid 2 - so awesome
3. Metal Gear Solid - awesome


4. Metal Gear Solid 4 - ok, can the movies and installs stop now?







5. Metal Gear Solid 3 - Terrible terrible game.

I stopped reading after the bolded part.

I'll never understand the unabashed adoration that MGS3 gets. It's a good game, but it does nothing spectacularly. The gameplay and tech is worse than 2, and the story is worse than 1. How this combination could even possibly equal the best game in the series boggles the living fuck out of my fragile, realistic mind.

So you're calling the gameplay in MGS3 worse just because you didn't like the new camo and food/heal mechanics?

Even if you count these two out, the gameplay found in MGS3 remains better or at least identical to MGS2.

As for the tech, MGS3 looks many times better than MGS2. You can easily tell this just by looking at the characters. Frankly, I don't know what it is about MGS2 that makes you say this.

Lastly, I prefer a straight-forward story that is entertaining than a clusterfuck of conspiracy theories that doesn't make any sense any day of the week.

 

[CJ_75]

I've loved the past few MGS games so when I got MGS4 a few weeks ago I was sufficiently excited.

Don't you think if you -really- loved MGS games, your copy of MGS4 should have been collecting dust by now?

 

[Inanna]

I loved it, but MGS2 was the best game ever!

 

[RiverBed]

Twin Snakes would have been awesome if they didn't fucking change Cyborg Ninja's dialogue and voice. Why the HELL would they ever do such a thing?!

 

[DieNgamers]

I didn't play MGS1 and Twin Snakes for the story but if I had to decide TT would be the one I replay.

 

[DryvBy]

Did anyone ever run through framerate stutters during the movies, constantly? I did and it always seemed like my PS3 was overheating. Some people didn't have any issues.

 

[neoism]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Nemo]

1. Twin Snakes - fucking awesome

High five my man! I see you have an eye for quality.

 

[Easy_G]

Don't you think if you -really- loved MGS games, your copy of MGS4 should have been collecting dust by now?

It's the 3rd game I bought on PS3 (Little Big Planet and Uncharted 2 are the others) and was actually the reason I chose PS3 over Xbox 360. I've just been playing far fewer games than I used to it, so it took me a while to get to it. I've found recently that I no longer have that urge to play games the second they come out.

I actually think that's a big reason why I didn't like it. Spending so little time with games makes me much more careful about what games I choose and I've noticed I'm much less willing to put up with things I didn't even think about years ago. My guess is that even though I loved MGS3, that if I were to replay it I may not like it. I think my tastes are shifting.

 

[vazel]

Did anyone ever run through framerate stutters during the movies, constantly? I did and it always seemed like my PS3 was overheating. Some people didn't have any issues.

I once had stuttering in Lair cutscenes that required me to power cycle the ps3 to fix.

 

[vazel]

It's the 4th best Metal Gear for me.

1. Twin Snakes - fucking awesome
2. Metal Gear Solid 2 - so awesome
3. Metal Gear Solid - awesome


4. Metal Gear Solid 4 - ok, can the movies and installs stop now?







5. Metal Gear Solid 3 - Terrible terrible game.

Dude you have horrible taste. You put the worst game on top and the best on the bottom. But maybe you did that on purpose.

Edit: Sorry for double posting.

 

[slayzz]

LMAO at Twin Snake. :lol

The only thing TS had over the original was graphic, while music, cutscenes, and dialogues were terrible compared to the original.

 

[Willectro]

Only Metal Gear that I didn't/haven't played through a second or third time.

 

[DieNgamers]

LMAO at Twin Snake. :lol

The only thing TS had over the original was graphic, while music, cutscenes, and dialogues were terrible compared to the original.

I disagree and feel some people are overreacting here. You have to know that I played the original MGS after Twin Snakes. I was never a fan of the series and its characters/story but TT sort of broke the ice and made it an enjoyable experience for me. The original game hasn't hold up that well, in my opinion. It feels more stiff to me, looks terrible of course and I don't care for the cutscenes anyway. I liked the exaggerated style in Twin Snakes, though.
Edit: might as well mention my favourite changes: now that I think about it the ninja cutscenes in Twin Snakes were awesome. :lol I also really appreciated the first person view, it made room for many possiblities.

 

[Fireflu]

Ok what the HELL is going on here, this thread has become a typhoon of hate but nearly 100% of the hate is completely unjustified.

Im not a huuuge MGS fan but ive played all the games in the series. Of course MGS1 was great (nostalgia bla bla bla) but for the love of god dont let that impede your current judgments.

MGS2 was my least favorite, here i agree with the majority and loved the tanker portion but didn't get along with the rest. The game just lacked atmosphere and variation of environments. It just felt stale towards the end. Also i really felt the controls to be uncomfortable throughout.

MGS3 had an awesome setting/premise, loved the environments, the atmosphere, the characters and pacing. I really enjoyed 3, A LOT more than 2! but the control problems remained, mainly to do with the camera and pulling off quick stealthy assassinations. Apart from the clunky controls though it was great fun.

Now MGS4, the big taboo subject on GAF it seems (i have no freaking clue why though). I personally thought it was fantastic, nice environments, great atmosphere, a ton of depth and things to do, and most importantly the controls felt extremely tight and easy to pull off (for me at least). All the menus and interfaces were clean and precise, everything felt incredibly polished, probably the most polished game ive played.

Now the biggest difference with MGS4 and the rest of the franchise is that they've ditched some fixed camera angles (overhead) and gone down the 3rd person route, THIS DOES NOT CHANGE THE GAMES FORMULA it just made it easier to play, soooo much easier.

People saying they hate it because its basically an action game are totally wrong imo, i played the entire game without being seen or killing anyone, hell i didn't even know that it was a "challenge" until i completed the game. I just set my own challenges, which made my enjoyment of it all the greater. But this is still certainly a stealth game (sans some moments, bike chase for example, but all the MGS's previous to this had them).

Of course the story is absurd (maybe die hard MGS fans enjoy it more) but i didn't care! it was a blast and i didn't mind just laughing at some points (not intentionally funny). So what, i was having fun. And you know what, if you really didn't like the films and stuff you can always do the bold thing and SKIP them!

Sigh, i could go on forever but i wont, must stop now getting tired. But one last thing, what the heck is the gigantic, titanic, monstrous problem with act 3!!!!!!!

 

[mambadragon]

I tried picking up MGS4 again recently for a second playthrough, and like others haven't been enjoying it like the first playthrough, causing me to ultimately stop. Beyond the gameplay which plays more like Contra than a stealth game on Normal, I experienced a bit of the uncomfortableness the OP was speaking of. I'm not uncomfortable in the same way I was in MGS2 with the Otacon/stepmother affair thing, but more uncomfortable in the way that the story is just so bad that it makes me question whether people working in the medium should even try telling stories. I don't know what it is - there are plenty of people who aren't classically trained who write great novels or movies, but videogame stories always seem like they were made by 15 year old boys who read those awful scifi/fantasy series with the book covers that look like a videocard box.

As for the future of the series, I have zero desire to see the storyline continue at all. I don't even want to see the MGS world as it is now continue. If it has to continue do a comicbook style reboot. Make a game like the MGS2 ZOE Demo where it's good gameplay in a good Tom Clancy like setting without the scifi stuff. Kojima usually nails the 10-year future settings, but then adds in scifi elements with ridiculous characters that I personally can't stand.

 

[LiK]

it's just closure for fans of the series, imo. i loved the experience but i agree that the gameplay was not that great.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I played Twin Snakes all the way through after MGS2 and 3, and was like 'eh, I don't get why people love this'.

Then I played the PS1 MGS a while later and was like 'oooooooooooooh, this is awesome!'

I can handle MGS's sometimes dated, yet still kind of awesome in a weird innocent way, gameplay conventions when they're wrapped in an appropriately dated shell. When you throw a PS2-era shell around it, the cracks really show through, and suddenly the innocence is gone and the game is left exposed.

MGS is an awesome snapshot of a time long since passed, TS is a dated mess. Weird how that works.

 

[Spider from Mars]

I know that opinions can't technically be wrong.....but god damn, there is a lot of wrong In this thread.

 

[LCfiner]

The awful cinemas and monologuing of characters in MGS4 soured me on the whole experience. It was so awful, I couldn't even enjoy the gameplay after a while.

Here's hoping that MGS Rising doesn't try to cram so much exposition and "cinematoc" BS in between the action.

 

[selig]

The worst part is Twin Snakes on top.

yeah, a remake that improved the original in every way...what a crappy game, I know

:/

 

[J-Rod]

I think 3 had the worst gameplay of the series, and I don't know how anyone can call it the best. Gameplay was constantly interupted to play in a menu(yay?), and every piece of camo had to load. Good concept but really terrible execution. MGS4 really did the camo thing like it was supposed to be done.

MGS2 had the best gameplay which really pains me to say because I was butthurt about my manly snake getting swapped in for an adrogynous baby faced guy who tucks his nuts between his legs. However, it had the best stealth based gameplay. You take out or sneak by zones full of soldiers as methodically, efficient, and precise as a surgeon.

I thought 4 was good. If you don't like the fps'ing of then don't play it that way. It's a much more satisfying expirience if you sneak, and when you do, you find out the game was built for you to by all the secret passageways.

How overly criticized it gets is comedic to me. You'll notice people have to use words they've never used before just to say something against it, and that the game is held to a far higher standard than most games. I mean, some of the lines and stories in the most beloved blockbusters are so bad and so poorly executed that it's just like when you witness someone do something so stupid you yourself for some reason feel embarrassed kind of bad. Yet there aren't 5 page threads every 2 months about how bad the story of multimillion selling game x is save for MGS4.

 

[KittyKittyBangBang]

Haters can hate all they want, MGS4 may be one of the best games I have played this gen, and I am not a big fan of the MGS series.

I can certainly understand why a lot of people didnt like the cinematic approach (you have A.D.D.) but if you just "let the game play you" it really is quite an experience.

 

[LCfiner]

Haters can hate all they want, MGS4 may be one of the best games I have played this gen, and I am not a big fan of the MGS series.

I can certainly understand why a lot of people didnt like the cinematic approach (you have taste) but if you just "let the game play you" it really is quite an experience.

fixed

 

[rvy]

Haters can hate all they want, MGS4 may be one of the best games I have played this gen, and I am not a big fan of the MGS series.

I can certainly understand why a lot of people didnt like the cinematic approach (you have A.D.D.) but if you just "let the game play you" it really is quite an experience.

Yeah, well... you're supposed to play the game, not the other way around. Had they decided to make 15 hours of Act I gameplay and I would have forgiven the shit story, dialog and characters. Since I only got to play the game for 5 hours, or whatever the hell it was, fuck them.

MGS 4 is a disgrace.

 

[BlueWord]

I can understand the hate that MGS4 gets, but I'm not sure it's entirely deserving. The MGS series has always had some pretty inconsistent design stuff, but people (myself included) have largely been forgiving because the games are so charming.

I guess the biggest problem with MGS4 is, oddly, that they really did perfect the controls, making sneaking around and taking out enemies entirely too easy. By eliminating the weird interface issues that had plagued the series for so long, they essentially made it too easy.

The story was also pretty stupid, but this is MGS we're talking about. Was anyone expecting anything else?

I also agree that the whole Drebin system was rather poorly implemented. Being able to access the store at any point had the potential to break the game.

But, beyond that, the game was really enjoyable. Was it the best Metal Gear? No, but it certainly isn't the worst, either. The game is, like a lot of the games GAF seems to get all hyped for, a victim of people's expectations. People wanted another MGS game; what they got was Kojima's first attempt at a Western-styled action game.

Hm, this post actually sounds a lot more negative than I had intended.

 

[Pureauthor]

MGS2 was Kojima going, "You know what, fuck this. I'm gonna see what I can get away with."

MGS4 was Kojima going, "What do you mean, 'I have to explain what happened in MGS2'? Uh... uh... nanonmachines. Yeah, that's your explanation. Nanomachines."

"But what about the guy who can pin shadows to wa-"

"NANOMACHINES"

 

[rvy]

MGS2 was Kojima going, "You know what, fuck this. I'm gonna see what I can get away with."

MGS4 was Kojima going, "What do you mean, 'I have to explain what happened in MGS2'? Uh... uh... nanonmachines. Yeah, that's your explanation. Nanomachines."

"But what about the guy who can pin shadows to wa-"

"NANOMACHINES"

Pretty much, yeah. At least he enjoyed making MGS 2, and it shows.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Put me in the camp that prefers TS to the original. I don't like the Matrix-esque aspects to the game, but to me the Playstation original is horribly dated, and Twin Snakes is a much needed upgrade.

With that said, I played it after 2, so I'm willing to accept my opinion may be different if I had played the original first.

 

[Guileless]

The awful cinemas and monologuing of characters in MGS4 soured me on the whole experience. It was so awful, I couldn't even enjoy the gameplay after a while.

I have to agree. The novelty of the bizarre wears off and what are you left with? David Lynch movies end after a couple of hours, but MGS4 drones on. I liked parts of it, but in the end it goes in the same category as FF8: one cut scene is so awful that it's all I remember about the game and I just don't like it.

The MGS4 burned egg or the scene with the terrible ballad when the girl is outside in space or whatever in FF8 (I blocked it out), which is worse? I don't know.

 

[HK-47]

You shouldn't really give a shit what GAF or anyone else thinks about something you like. If you did that for everything, you wouldn't like anything. Why not look at review scores and GOTY awards it got instead?

Also, for the record, I'll never understand the act 3 hate. People bitch about the game giving you the option to blast your way through it, but act 3 IMO is the most well executed and in-depth stealth sequence in all the games. By far. It's genius on every level and the atmosphere is amazing.

Because review scores and GotY awards are about as valid as the opinions of gaffers. Also like how GAF is a collective and doesnt have people who hate it/love it/dont give a fuck/thought it was ok.

 

[HK-47]

Pretty much, yeah. At least he enjoyed making MGS 2, and it shows.

I still dont get why he keeps coming back if that is the case, and why he does after saying he wants to do other things. Whenever he says he is moving on, he cries wolf.

 

[LosDaddie]

eh...I thought MGS4 was a fun game with great graphics and audio, but I was lost on the story. I played through Act 1, stopped and went to watch GameTrailer MGS retrospective to get caught up. And I was still lost.

Overall, I'm glad I played MGS4, but it's not in my Top 10 of this gen.


To the MGS-fan, I can understand why MGS4 is your BEST GAME EVA! The fan service Kojim put in MGS4 is incredible. All the loose ends were tied up. To the non-MGS fan, I don't know how you couldn't be utterly lost with the story.