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[cackhyena]

Oh, well I guess never having played them, I still don't know the specific retcons V is laying out. Only thing I remember about BB is Liquid wanting his remains.

 

[Salaadin]

He didn't help kids in Metal Gear 2. He purposefully set out to make kids orphans in his wars, taking them in afterwards in order to expand his army.

Big Boss was a dick, man. It's about time MGSV shows us what he actually turns into.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't those kids in mg2 seem to think very highly of him? I would swear that some of the dialogue has them speaking fondly of him.
Though they are only children...

I always think about sniper wolf. She adored him ever since she was a child.

 

[NotMyRealName]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't those kids in mg2 seem to think very highly of him? I would swear that some of the dialogue has them speaking fondly of him.
Though they are only children...

I always think about sniper wolf. She adored him ever since she was a child.

Those kids didn't know he started the wars that orphaned them. They only knew him as the surrogate father that took them in after their country/ies had been destroyed.

 

[Spaghetti]

By the way, a consideration: is Ghost Babel canon?

I mean, I know is not, but there are a lot of references to MGS2 in the VR mission, and even in MGS2 there is a reference to Ghost Babel.

So maybe the whole GB thing is only a VR mission?

ghost babel is non-canon but it can be if you want it, seeing how it's all

Spoiler

a vr mission for raiden

 

[Timeaisis]

Those pictures of Ocelot just make me disappointed we're losing Patric Zimmerman. I like Troy Baker, but everyone in MGSV seems to sound alike now.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

At this point I'm kind've indifferent to the talents we have in mgsv. Having good VA's means little if you get crap dialogue and anime-esque/melodramatic direction. I'm still looking forward to see what they got in store with phantom pain for va's and mocap though, Troy Baker is an amazing voice actor.

 

[Bebpo]

I'm still kind of surprised that Big Boss was around 30 in MGS3 considering that he's supposed to be a bit a bit green and still rookie-ish, right? I always assumed he was maybe like 23/24 in MGS3.

 

[Holykael1]

At this point I'm kind've indifferent to the talents we have in mgsv. Having good VA's means little if you get crap dialogue and anime-esque/melodramatic direction. I'm still looking forward to see what they got in store with phantom pain for va's and mocap though, Troy Baker is an amazing voice actor.

The writing has been pretty consistent throughout the whole series. If you didnt think much of the writing in the prrevious games, you won't find a lot to like in MGS V either.

 

[Holiday]

I'm still kind of surprised that Big Boss was around 30 in MGS3 considering that he's supposed to be a bit a bit green and still rookie-ish, right? I always assumed he was maybe like 23/24 in MGS3.

I figured that he was just green in terms of the Cobra Unit, not compared to other soldiers (since he mentions to Eva that his body is covered in scars). I could be way wrong on this though.

 

[Bebpo]

It's funny, while playing these prequel games Im always asking in the back of my mind. "Is he evil yet?" "Are we there yet?".
I thought MGS3 was enough to make him Big Boss, but then PO happened and he was supposed to turn evil then, but then Peace Walker happened and he was supposed to be evil then.. LOL Im just kidding, I actually enjoy the slow progression.

I know people have discussed this to death, but I'm in the camp that Big Boss is never going to "turn evil". I think he's been and is being retconned to be the true hero of the series who eventually dies a tragic death after a long and hard life. To me Big Boss is way better than Solid Snake, because Big Boss is a truly likeable, great hero character that people can care about. He's the most badass soldier, but he's also got a good heart, is funny and helps/saves people whenever he can. Solid Snake was always this troubled individual and his games outside his awesome bit in MGS2 have been kind of woe, is me, ok this is something I gotta do. He's a pawn in MGS1 and in MGS4 he's a sad man finishing a mission. Big Boss otoh is just a great freaking character like say, Luffy in One Piece, and you want to cheer him on and watch him go on adventures and kick some ass. Unfortunately the adventures are going to start going worse and worse for him ;_;

I think the retcon for this started obviously in MGS3 but even when we see BB in MGS4, I didn't get the impression that he was "evil". I got the impression that him and SS recognized and respected each other and took out Zero together to end it. I will be extremely surprised if Big Boss ever becomes a bad person, evil or a bad guy. At worst I can see him becoming an anti-hero.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

The writing has been pretty consistent throughout the whole series. If you didnt think much of the writing in the prrevious games, you won't find a lot to like in MGS V either.

I agree it has been consistent, it has stagnated. Whereas the graphic fidelity of each title exceeds it's predecessor. That's my point, something that was great won't always be so. The bar in these categories has been raised by many other companies such as Naughty Dog which Koji-pro visited a few years back.

 

[CambriaRising]

I'm still kind of surprised that Big Boss was around 30 in MGS3 considering that he's supposed to be a bit a bit green and still rookie-ish, right? I always assumed he was maybe like 23/24 in MGS3.

He had quite a bit of combat experience before Snake Eater. From the Wiki:

Born in 1935, John was more commonly known as Jack during his early years. Jack's military career dated back to the 1950s, when he participated in the Korean War as a teenager and later joined the Green Berets. In 1950, at the age of fifteen, he met The Boss and became her apprentice after which point she trained him in combat, demolition, and Intel gathering techniques. At some point, he learned how to snipe in urban and marine environments, and took part in survival training exercises, where he ate snakes for the first time.

In 1954, Jack was involved in the Bikini Atoll test of the first airborne detonation of a hydrogen bomb. However, unlike most of his friends who were present during the testing who had gotten leukemia, thyroid cancer, or died from the radiation, he initially did not develop any symptoms at all. He later admitted that he eventually started showing symptoms. His exposure to the radiation resulted in him becoming sterile and unable to reproduce naturally.

During Jack's time under the tutelage of The Boss, she also taught him everything about combat, weaponry, survival, espionage, destruction, psychology and foreign languages (such as Russian). He also excelled in urban warfare and building infiltration under her tutelage and they later developed CQC together. They went their separate ways on June 12, 1959 only to meet once again five years later in Russia.

In 1961, Jack carried out covert operations alongside Python during the early stages of the Vietnam War, before America officially participated. He later stated that Python was one of the few soldiers he could completely rely on in battle. The two also played poker together, leaving Python owing Snake money. The two were later involved in a mission together where Python was shot and presumed dead.

 

[JayEH]

I know people have discussed this to death, but I'm in the camp that Big Boss is never going to "turn evil". I think he's been and is being retconned to be the true hero of the series who eventually dies a tragic death after a long and hard life. To me Big Boss is way better than Solid Snake, because Big Boss is a truly likeable, great hero character that people can care about. He's the most badass soldier, but he's also got a good heart, is funny and helps/saves people whenever he can. Solid Snake was always this troubled individual and his games outside his awesome bit in MGS2 have been kind of woe, is me, ok this is something I gotta do. He's a pawn in MGS1 and in MGS4 he's a sad man finishing a mission. Big Boss otoh is just a great freaking character like say, Luffy in One Piece, and you want to cheer him on and watch him go on adventures and kick some ass. Unfortunately the adventures are going to start going worse and worse for him ;_;

I think the retcon for this started obviously in MGS3 but even when we see BB in MGS4, I didn't get the impression that he was "evil". I got the impression that him and SS recognized and respected each other and took out Zero together to end it. I will be extremely surprised if Big Boss ever becomes a bad person, evil or a bad guy. At worst I can see him becoming an anti-hero.

Agree with everything you said here, but I've always wondered, is Kojima really retconning BB in terms of his goodness/evilness?

I mean yeah he was the "bad guy" in MG1 and 2. But you find out the reasons why he's doing what he's doing later. I'm not sure if retcon is the right term.

 

[Ishida]

Agree with everything you said here, but I've always wondered, is Kojima really retconning BB in terms of his goodness/evilness?

I mean yeah he was the "bad guy" in MG1 and 2. But you find out the reasons why he's doing what he's doing later. I'm not sure if retcon is the right term.

No. It's not a retcon. A retcon is a change in the established canon. We knew next to nothing about Big Boss' past in the original games.

Expansion =/= Retcon.

 

[cackhyena]

His name is John? Why was he called Jack, then?

 

[strobogo]

His name is John? Why was he called Jack, then?

Because Jack is a nick name for people named John.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

I know people have discussed this to death, but I'm in the camp that Big Boss is never going to "turn evil". I think he's been and is being retconned to be the true hero of the series who eventually dies a tragic death after a long and hard life. To me Big Boss is way better than Solid Snake, because Big Boss is a truly likeable, great hero character that people can care about. He's the most badass soldier, but he's also got a good heart, is funny and helps/saves people whenever he can. Solid Snake was always this troubled individual and his games outside his awesome bit in MGS2 have been kind of woe, is me, ok this is something I gotta do. He's a pawn in MGS1 and in MGS4 he's a sad man finishing a mission. Big Boss otoh is just a great freaking character like say, Luffy in One Piece, and you want to cheer him on and watch him go on adventures and kick some ass. Unfortunately the adventures are going to start going worse and worse for him ;_;

I think the retcon for this started obviously in MGS3 but even when we see BB in MGS4, I didn't get the impression that he was "evil". I got the impression that him and SS recognized and respected each other and took out Zero together to end it. I will be extremely surprised if Big Boss ever becomes a bad person, evil or a bad guy. At worst I can see him becoming an anti-hero.

Yeah if you stand back in squint a little, Solid Snake is basically the unknowing bad guy in MG1 and 2. He thinks he is serving his country taking out Outer Heaven but he's effectively just a pawn of the Patriots at that point.

It would be pretty easy to rewrite the story of MG1 and 2 as similar to Peace Walker- Big Boss just doing everything he can to carve out a separate place for himself and fellow mercenaries in the world unaffiliated from any one country but being called to heel by the US.

 

[Y2Kev]

Do you think Snake is going to have like no lines in this game because of the cost? If it's like ground zeroes, maybe Keifer only has to voice like 20 lines.

How old is "Kazuhira" Miller in MGS1? Like a billion?

 

[cackhyena]

Do you think Snake is going to have like no lines in this game because of the cost? If it's like ground zeroes, maybe Keifer only has to voice like 20 lines.

Really?

 

[CambriaRising]

Do you think Snake is going to have like no lines in this game because of the cost? If it's like ground zeroes, maybe Keifer only has to voice like 20 lines.

How old is "Kazuhira" Miller in MGS1? Like a billion?

I'm pretty sure they don't pay voice actors by the line.

 

[Mookie1515]

Do you think Snake is going to have like no lines in this game because of the cost? If it's like ground zeroes, maybe Keifer only has to voice like 20 lines.

How old is "Kazuhira" Miller in MGS1? Like a billion?

He talks a lot in the pre-mission cassettes with Kaz! But I know what you mean. Guess we can only wait and see.

 

[TheLight]

Do you think Snake is going to have like no lines in this game because of the cost? If it's like ground zeroes, maybe Keifer only has to voice like 20 lines.

How old is "Kazuhira" Miller in MGS1? Like a billion?

He is like 38 in TPP, man.

 

[Y2Kev]

Really?

Potentially. Kojima's shift away from exposition heavy gaming combined with the change in voice talent could result in a substantial reduction in lines, if not overall then potentially from the player character (who just happens to be a celebrity now).

I'm pretty sure they don't pay voice actors by the line.

I dunno how they pay them. But Kaz is just talky talky talky

Oh, MGS1 is 2005. For some reason I always feel like it is so futuristic. Maybe because it hadn't happened yet when I first played it.

 

[Love Deterrence]

Do you think Snake is going to have like no lines in this game because of the cost? If it's like ground zeroes, maybe Keifer only has to voice like 20 lines.

How old is "Kazuhira" Miller in MGS1? Like a billion?

Ha! Good question. I think he'll have a substantial amount of dialogue, but not nearly as much as Troy Baker (Ocelot) or Robin Atkin Downes (Miller). They are two of Snake's confirmed radio contacts in The Phantom Pain, so I think that they will speak more than Snake, however, I predict that Snake will have quite a bit to say, himself!

Also, Kaz was in his late fifties (about 59 years of age) when he passed away. :-(

 

[cackhyena]

Potentially. Kojima's shift away from exposition heavy gaming combined with the change in voice talent could result in a substantial reduction in lines, if not overall then potentially from the player character (who just happens to be a celebrity now).

You know, that really doesn't sound so bad. Less verbal diarrhea the better. Kojima can't help but make most of his characters sound like the opposite of what they are supposed to be in terms of status/intelligence at one point or another.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Ha! Good question. I think he'll have a substantial amount of dialogue, but not nearly as much as Troy Baker (Ocelot) or Robin Atkin Downes (Miller). They are two of Snake's confirmed radio contacts in The Phantom Pain, so I think that they will speak more than Snake, however, I predict that Snake will have quite a bit to say, himself!

Also, Kaz was in his late fifties (about 59 years of age) when he passed away. :-(

Snake has always been quieter than the supporting cast since he is always on the receiving end of the exposition dumps. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that Hayter had more lines in MGS2 than any of the others for just that reason.

 

[TwoDurans]

Ha! Good question. I think he'll have a substantial amount of dialogue, but not nearly as much as Troy Baker (Ocelot) or Robin Atkin Downes (Miller). They are two of Snake's confirmed radio contacts in The Phantom Pain, so I think that they will speak more than Snake, however, I predict that Snake will have quite a bit to say, himself!

Also, Kaz was in his late fifties (about 59 years of age) when he passed away. :-(

I really hope they retcon Miller's death from MGS1. He's too important to the series to go out like he did (offscreen and unknown)

 

[TheLight]

I really hope they retcon Miller's death from MGS1. He's too important to the series to go out like he did (offscreen and unknown)

I mean, depending how things go with Eli in MGSV, I think his death could have some really cool themes behind it. The whole theme of revenge thing depending on how dicky BB and Kaz are in MGSV. They should just SHOW IT.

 

[Salaadin]

I really hope they retcon Miller's death from MGS1. He's too important to the series to go out like he did (offscreen and unknown)

But that ruins the whole Liquid reveal

 

[Love Deterrence]

Snake has always been quieter than the supporting cast since he is always on the receiving end of the exposition dumps. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that Hayter had more lines in MGS2 than any of the others for just that reason.

Yup! My thoughts, exactly. I've always wondered this, myself, despite knowing the script like the back of my hand!

Spoiler

OH, GOD! WHAT'S THAT?

I really hope they retcon Miller's death from MGS1. He's too important to the series to go out like he did (offscreen and unknown)

Part of me agrees with you, while the other part is sort of "wait-and-see" regarding how Miller (and his relationship with Liquid) will be portrayed in The Phantom Pain! I'm sure that if (or "when") the original Metal Gear titles are rebooted, we will see Miller receive a fitting send-off. Maybe in a post-credits sequence or something? I don't know. It'd be interesting!

 

[keltickennedy]

If Liquid

Spoiler

Eli

was a natural blond and Snake is naturally dark haired what colour hair did Solidus have.

I hope it was always granpa grey

I thought that both Solid and Liquid were blonde. Solid just dyed his hair to look like big boss or something. Remember the security tapes from MGS1 when they first pull Solid out of Alaska?

 

[Imm0rt4l]

About Snakes hair, Kojima just fucked up I'm guessing. His hair appears blonde in the briefing room despite the lighting in the room being dark. We hear snake cut his hair, but I don't recall if he said he dyed it, but I think it's natural to assume that he did after watching the briefing video. I think Kojima originally planned for solid snake to be a natural blonde, especially since it's a recessive trait. But for all intents and purposes Snakes hair is dark, so I just chalk it up to a continuity error.

 

[The Silver]

I mean, depending how things go with Eli in MGSV, I think his death could have some really cool themes behind it. The whole theme of revenge thing depending on how dicky BB and Kaz are in MGSV. They should just SHOW IT.

Yeah BB and Kaz are probably complete assholes to Eli.

 

[Spaghetti]

Do you think Snake is going to have like no lines in this game because of the cost? If it's like ground zeroes, maybe Keifer only has to voice like 20 lines.

as long as it spells an end to

other character: "exposition/plot point"
snake: "exposition/plot point?"

style dialogue, i'm fucking down with sutherland being fairly quiet.

then again we already know he gets more chatty in the phantom pain from the gameplay clip from gdc2013 but then again, he is talking to himself...

 

[Sub_Level]

Do you think Snake is going to have like no lines in this game because of the cost? If it's like ground zeroes, maybe Keifer only has to voice like 20 lines.

How old is "Kazuhira" Miller in MGS1? Like a billion?

Kiefer called MGSV a "gig and a half".

Kojima worked his ass to the bone.

 

[Roto13]

as long as it spells an end to

other character: "exposition/plot point"
snake: "exposition/plot point?"

style dialogue, i'm fucking down with sutherland being fairly quiet.

then again we already know he gets more chatty in the phantom pain from the gameplay clip from gdc2013 but then again, he is talking to himself...

This happens in like every Japanese thing ever and it drives me nuts.

 

[The Silver]

This happens in like every Japanese thing ever and it drives me nuts.

I also wish Kojima would get over his control freak tendencies and stop demanding a direct 1:1 translation, damnit Kojima sometimes things said in Japanese sound stupid when said in English.

 

[Trike]

Do you think Snake is going to have like no lines in this game because of the cost? If it's like ground zeroes, maybe Keifer only has to voice like 20 lines.

How old is "Kazuhira" Miller in MGS1? Like a billion?

Dead?

 

[TwoDurans]

Yeah BB and Kaz are probably complete assholes to Eli.

So we're all pretty sure that Eli is Liquid?

 

[The Silver]

So we're all pretty sure that Eli is Liquid?

well I would certainly be very shocked if he isn't

 

[MormaPope]

Didn't see this posted, Medic in helicopter sounds almost identical to Kiefer when you change the pitch of his voice.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kukf20stzd0yu7x/gzmedic.wav

Really strange coincidence, this is not supporting the "Hayter is really coming back" theory, just a odd tidbit of info.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

well I would certainly be very shocked if he isn't

Yeah, and not in a good way.

Eli's identity is pretty obvious, but saying that he's Liquid outright at this point would ruin the magic of the in-game reveal.

 

[beastmode]

I've read some convincing theories about what the different maps/main missions are going to be in Phantom Pain. Seem plausible to me.

Spoiler

1944 France
1954 Marshall Islands
1974 Costa Rica
1984 Afghanistan
1994 Haiti

 

[AppleMIX]

Man, I'm totally hope that Ground Zeroes is Cipher propaganda film and the Zero enlist Decoy Octopus to impersonate Big Boss and make him act heroic.

How awesome would that be?

 

[dc89]

I've read some convincing theories about what the different maps/main missions are going to be in Phantom Pain. Seem plausible to me.

Spoiler

1944 France
1954 Marshall Islands
1974 Costa Rica
1984 Afghanistan
1994 Haiti

Can you link to said theories?

 

[beastmode]

Can you link to said theories?

I haven't kept a record. I'll try to elaborate a little/a lot.

Spoiler

1944 France - Kojima's original plan for MGS5 was have The Boss as lead character in WWII. His recent location scouting in Normandy. Major Zero in his prime. Ocelot's birthplace.

Spoiler

1954 Marshall Islands - Where Jack met The Boss [?] and was affected by radiation from nuclear weapons testing. An overseas military staging area for the United States. KojiPro is going to want to reuse GZ assets for a bigger location, no doubt. Rounds the number of main missions up to 5/V.

Spoiler

1974 Costa Rica - There's what appears to be Mother-Base-in-its-heyday assets in the E3 trailer in place of Outer Heaven. A lot of people (especially in the west) didn't play Peace Walker. The "pseudo-historical recreations" in GZ might have been retooled side ops from this. GZ savefile porting will probably only affect this chapter, to keep the others balanced.

Spoiler

1994 Haiti - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Uphold_Democracy + FOXHOUND/Cipher. The admission that Kojima would like to remake MG1 and there will be some inconsistencies with it and MGSV. To see Big Boss burn his last bridges with Cipher and go curazy. Ties in with France's past as a geopolitical power. Edit: Hayter conspiracy warning: Maybe Solid Snake gets a cameo?

Spoiler

Kojima's mentioned that he wants MGSV to be like a TV show. Wants to continue to portray Big Boss' main missions as occurring on the XXX4th year of every decade. Also gonna say that Big Boss' base/Outer Heaven in 1984 and 1994 is the abandoned South African nuke storage place mentioned in the GZ timeline.

 

[The Cartographer]

I've read some convincing theories about what the different maps/main missions are going to be in Phantom Pain. Seem plausible to me.

Spoiler

1944 France
1954 Marshall Islands
1974 Costa Rica
1984 Afghanistan
1994 Haiti

Spoiler

2014 Naked Sin

 

[Epcott]

I haven't kept a record. I'll try to elaborate a little/a lot.

Spoiler

1944 France - Kojima's original plan for MGS5 was have The Boss as lead character in WWII. His recent location scouting in Normandy. Major Zero in his prime. Ocelot's birthplace.

Spoiler

Well, one of the first Ogre photos did look slightly reminiscent of 1940's fashion http://i.imgur.com/etPqClz.jpg but that could also just be the nurses outfit from the hospital in the opening.

I don't see him doing that. Jumping around like that would make it too unfocused.

Spoiler

Also, Kojima specifically stated he picked Sutherland because his voice sounded more like what BB would at that age and time in his life (unless he flat out lied) I've known Kojima to withhold facts and misdirection, but not flat out lying in interviews (except when he said Moby Dick was creating Phantom Pain, and that was misdirection). Why would he pick Sutherland if it covers 30+ years of his life (unless they find a younger actor for the 1954 segment).

I do however think we will see 1994-5 in the end though.

 

[Jubern]

I suppose this discussion already happened and I'm sorry, but isn't any "Hayter is coming back" theory debunked by the fact that Otsuka is still doing the Japanese Snake/BB anyway?

 

[beastmode]

Spoiler

Well, one of the first Ogre photos did look slightly reminiscent of 1940's fashion http://i.imgur.com/etPqClz.jpg but that could also just be the nurses outfit from the hospital in the opening.

I don't see him doing that. Jumping around like that would make it too unfocused.

I didn't mean to imply that those locations are mutually inclusive with those dates. I only feel really positive about the

Spoiler

MSF era

Spoiler

Diamond Dogs era

Spoiler

FOXHOUND era

being directly portrayed.

I suppose this discussion already happened and I'm sorry, but isn't any "Hayter is coming back" theory debunked by the fact that Otsuka is still doing the Japanese Snake/BB anyway?

Hayter didn't voice Solidus Snake. His dad didn't play BB in MGS4. Akio didn't appear in the opening of MGS4. Liquid Ocelot wasn't voiced by Kōji Totani. These things happen all the time. Kojima's said that if one language is to be considered the lead for MGSV it's English.