Right. There are multiple meanings. Like it was originally supposed to refrence Snake and Otacon being executed by the UN. (Edit: remember that Colonel Campbell is acting secretly on behalf of the UN in the final game. And Drunk Drebin starts rambling about how they're going to replace the Patriots.) At the time of GZ Big Boss and Kaz, Paz and Chico, etc. are all duos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CmVcvBBrM8 explain the fourth, how it relates to "Twin Suns" in Shadow Moses (that aren't Solid/Liquid/Solidus) and why Kaz would suddenly become a major character after MGS4 brings up an unknown martyr put in a grave beside The Boss and Big Boss. Hint: Josef Mengele/Male Dr. Clark on the loose in Japan.I know you're doing a thing or whatever, but the song is about Paz & Chico but also Snake & Kaz, Kojima said as much during his commentary of the opening scene.
Right. There are multiple meanings. Like it was originally supposed to refrence Snake and Otacon being executed by the UN. (Edit: remember that Colonel Campbell is acting secretly on behalf of the UN in the final game. And Drunk Drebin starts rambling about how they're going to replace the Patriots.) At the time of GZ Big Boss and Kaz, Paz and Chico, etc. are all duos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CmVcvBBrM8 explain the fourth, how it relates to "Twin Suns" in Shadow Moses (that aren't Solid/Liquid/Solidus) and why Kaz would suddenly become a major character after MGS4 brings up an unknown martyr put in a grave beside The Boss and Big Boss. Hint: Josef Mengele/Male Dr. Clark on the loose in Japan.
The other implication Twin Suns/Peace Walker makes is that Naomi was a surrogate mother for a clone of Huey for Strangelove.Also MGS4 implies Liquid was made in The Middle East and Solid in South America. Just throwing that out there.Huey literally doesn't have a sausage by 1984
This is an interesting idea, and the allusion makes it compelling, but this is my view essentially:
One of the big goals of MGSV as a whole seems to be to have the player empathize with Big Boss, and ultimately internalize his guilt. I don't see how that can happen from the perspective of an entirely different character.
This was what MGS2 was. MGS2 is why we love snake so much, even though Kojima was already done with the series. It's a love letter to the legend of Snake through an "imposters" eyes so we can see how great they are.I don't see how that can happen from the perspective of an entirely different character.
Hey, that's not as bad as Solid Snake being the son of an XOF member/Paz. The two eggs are both broken in Solid Sun, a chapter that features a run-down secret laboratory in Unnamed South American country. This lab had secrets both Liquid and Naomi were interested in learning. Kojima wants to make another Solid Snake game and Snake's aging/foxdie was all kinds of inconsistent. Naked Sun/Naked Sin.Beastmode strikes again.
Hey, that's not as bad as Solid Snake being the son of an XOF member/Paz. The two eggs are both broken in Solid Sun, a chapter that features a run-down secret laboratory in Unnamed South American country. This lab had secrets both Liquid and Naomi were interested in learning. Kojima wants to make another Solid Snake game and Snake's aging/foxdie was all kinds of inconsistent. Naked Sun/Naked Sin.
Watch MGSVI be "Otacon, Philanthropy's got a new mission. I've finally recovered... I know how to erase the meme. Ask Raiden what he knows about Dr. Madnar, he mentioned meeting him that one time... I thought he was just delirious. Madnar died in Zanzibar. Let's give our favorite contributor a visit."
I dunno. I still haven't played Rising and didn't think much of Peace Walker's details until GZ. I've played TONS of MGS3, however, and have been looking over MGS4/PW footage a lot. From what I understand Rising is all about Raiden fighting Cyborgs? Fits in with a frustrated Raiden going down a dark path between MGS2/4. Him trying to get to Madnar with EVA's help after she got him to save Raiden. That was the timeframe it was meant to take place in under KojiPro/Kojima/Have any of your previous theories been right?
You will feel ashamed of your words and deeds. Condemning Otacon/Johnny/Meryl/Drebin/Litte Gray/Raiden/Sexy women and putting Solid Snake/Big Boss on a pedestal. Say goodbye to your mighty sausage, gamers. In MGSV manly men become demons.This thread is fun and sad.
You will feel ashamed of your words and deeds. Condemning Otacon/Johnny/Meryl/Drebin/Litte Gray/Raiden/Sexy women and putting Solid Snake/Big Boss on a pedestal. Say goodbye to your mighty sausage, gamers. In MGSV manly men become demons.
These are the last two songs on the Diamond Dogs album Kojima said he wanted to open GZ with at one point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EOlZyD26T4
I think Kojima blatantly said that The Boss/The Joy = the feminine warrior type in one of the Subsistence bonus discs. Liquid/Solid/Solidus are obviously different representations of masculinity. Big Boss and his whole angry at the government+a woman betrayed me in service of The Man/Major Zero many many years ago = an MRA. Naked Sun/Sin might have just been stuff that Ocelot+Liquid told Snake/Big Boss to comfort/mess with them one last time.And isn't Bowie like king androgynous?
You know what bugs me the most about GZ? Snake is once again not making his own decisions. With Solid Snake it basically turned out that he was a pawn all along and that was his story. He was a pawn with a role to play and a burden to carry.
With Big Boss, I want to see more of a man on a mission. One of his choosing. Forging his own destiny. In the opening of Ground Zeroes we hear Snake ask Kaz "So go in and silence the targets?" And Kaz tells him otherwise. Really? The legendary Big Boss just lightly wants to go kill a child? I want Big Boss to have some conviction. He supposedly recruits all these soldiers but how? With no ideals of his own? By letting Kaz do all his thinking for him?
KojiPro writes their dialog backwards. In most modern games its side characters that make obvious observations and state them out loud to highlight them to the player. In MGS games its the main character who fills in blanks and the supporting cast who makes all the revelations and puts put thought.
I hope TPP shows us a Big Boss who takes control.
You know what bugs me the most about GZ? Snake is once again not making his own decisions. With Solid Snake it basically turned out that he was a pawn all along and that was his story. He was a pawn with a role to play and a burden to carry.
With Big Boss, I want to see more of a man on a mission. One of his choosing. Forging his own destiny. In the opening of Ground Zeroes we hear Snake ask Kaz "So go in and silence the targets?" And Kaz tells him otherwise. Really? The legendary Big Boss just lightly wants to go kill a child? I want Big Boss to have some conviction. He supposedly recruits all these soldiers but how? With no ideals of his own? By letting Kaz do all his thinking for him?
KojiPro writes their dialog backwards. In most modern games its side characters that make obvious observations and state them out loud to highlight them to the player. In MGS games its the main character who fills in blanks and the supporting cast who makes all the revelations and puts put thought.
I hope TPP shows us a Big Boss who takes control.
Big Boss will eventually join the Patriots he is not in control.
So, who was the major contributor for Philanthropy anyway?
I think Kojima blatantly said that The Boss/The Joy = the feminine warrior type in one of the Subsistence bonus discs. Liquid/Solid/Solidus are obviously different representations of masculinity. Big Boss and his whole angry at the government+a woman betrayed me in service of The Man/Major Zero many many years ago = an MRA. Naked Sun/Sin might have just been stuff that Ocelot+Liquid told Snake/Big Boss to comfort/mess with them one last time.
The Philosopher's Legacy, through the Patriots AI.
Stop giving trolls attention.
At the time of Ground Zeroes, he already joined and left The Patriots.
You know what bugs me the most about GZ? Snake is once again not making his own decisions. With Solid Snake it basically turned out that he was a pawn all along and that was his story. He was a pawn with a role to play and a burden to carry.
With Big Boss, I want to see more of a man on a mission. One of his choosing. Forging his own destiny. In the opening of Ground Zeroes we hear Snake ask Kaz "So go in and silence the targets?" And Kaz tells him otherwise. Really? The legendary Big Boss just lightly wants to go kill a child? I want Big Boss to have some conviction. He supposedly recruits all these soldiers but how? With no ideals of his own? By letting Kaz do all his thinking for him?
KojiPro writes their dialog backwards. In most modern games its side characters that make obvious observations and state them out loud to highlight them to the player. In MGS games its the main character who fills in blanks and the supporting cast who makes all the revelations and puts put thought.
I hope TPP shows us a Big Boss who takes control.
I couldn't agree more. Kojima has shown time and time again that he is utterly incapable of creating an MGS with a decisive main character who makes decisions for himself. It suited MGS1, as the idea of Snake being used was a major element of the plot, and MGS2 with Raiden being a newbie through whom to see Snake in a better light worked really, really well too. MGS3 already started to irk me a little bit; it has a pass because it shows Big Boss at his youngest, but the man has no ideals, he doesn't think for himself, he just blindly follows either his country or The Boss until a catalyst makes him rethink his loyalties, but even after that we haven't seen clear signs that he does any thinking of his own. MGS4 was abysmal in this regard, with an aged Snake that, though vulnerable, should have been wiser than ever. Instead, he became even more of a puppet than he ever was before, never making choices of his own free will, and with the game never even making a hint as to what his ideals or thoughts were in regards to anything.
I'm hyped as hell for MGSV, but it's almost solely because of the gameplay. I cannot allow myself to get hyped for this game's plot after everything. The theme of revenge excites me a lot, but we've already seen in the trailers that Kaz is the one most hell bent in exacting revenge on his perceived enemy, and that Big Boss just tags along for the ride. Hell, he (Kaz) is even seen wearing the trench coat of the classic Big Boss design. The things that were supposed to be iconic of Big Boss' character and that turned out to be borrowed from other characters just keeps piling up. It's heartbreaking, really.
Obviously, in Metal Gear, if you want a character to be moderately well developed and fleshed out, you'd damn better hope he is not the playable character. Maybe Solid Snake can time travel and give Big Boss an hour long speech about life and shit at the end of MGSV. Apparently that's the only way in which one of the Snakes can be moderately fleshed out in MGSV.
I actually kinda like quiet Snakes. It fits their "Im not a hero Im a gun" mentality. Also would somebody please create an image where snake's body is literally a gun. Distort the man all you need but make it happen.
I couldn't agree more. Kojima has shown time and time again that he is utterly incapable of creating an MGS with a decisive main character who makes decisions for himself. It suited MGS1, as the idea of Snake being used was a major element of the plot, and MGS2 with Raiden being a newbie through whom to see Snake in a better light worked really, really well too. MGS3 already started to irk me a little bit; it has a pass because it shows Big Boss at his youngest, but the man has no ideals, he doesn't think for himself, he just blindly follows either his country or The Boss until a catalyst makes him rethink his loyalties, but even after that we haven't seen clear signs that he does any thinking of his own. MGS4 was abysmal in this regard, with an aged Snake that, though vulnerable, should have been wiser than ever. Instead, he became even more of a puppet than he ever was before, never making choices of his own free will, and with the game never even making a hint as to what his ideals or thoughts were in regards to anything.
I'm hyped as hell for MGSV, but it's almost solely because of the gameplay. I cannot allow myself to get hyped for this game's plot after everything. The theme of revenge excites me a lot, but we've already seen in the trailers that Kaz is the one most hell bent in exacting revenge on his perceived enemy, and that Big Boss just tags along for the ride. Hell, he (Kaz) is even seen wearing the trench coat of the classic Big Boss design. The things that were supposed to be iconic of Big Boss' character and that turned out to be borrowed from other characters just keeps piling up. It's heartbreaking, really.
Obviously, in Metal Gear, if you want a character to be moderately well developed and fleshed out, you'd damn better hope he is not the playable character. Maybe Solid Snake can time travel and give Big Boss an hour long speech about life and shit at the end of MGSV. Apparently that's the only way in which one of the Snakes can be moderately fleshed out in MGSV.
But Big Boss is not just a gun. He's supposed to be this idol that soldiers look up to. So far, Kojima has failed miserably at actually portraying that side of him.
Here's hoping I'm proved wrong with MGSV, but I sincerely doubt that will happen.
I MGS4 was abysmal in this regard, with an aged Snake that, though vulnerable, should have been wiser than ever. Instead, he became even more of a puppet than he ever was before, never making choices of his own free will, and with the game never even making a hint as to what his ideals or thoughts were in regards to anything.
Zero would love to see a Snake shaped gun.Also would somebody please create an image where snake's body is literally a gun. Distort the man all you need but make it happen.
Portable Ops also has an amazing speech by him when he's recruiting a soldier. I think the idea is that he is a hero and a leader on a personal level, while Kaz handles the hard direction and management that goes on in the background, and also acts as Big Boss' CO (aka guidance for the player) during missions.His speech of Outer Heaven at the end of Peace Walker pulled that off extremely well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMBE4Swd-oc
My dude.I couldn't agree more. Kojima has shown time and time again that he is utterly incapable of creating an MGS with a decisive main character who makes decisions for himself. It suited MGS1, as the idea of Snake being used was a major element of the plot, and MGS2 with Raiden being a newbie through whom to see Snake in a better light worked really, really well too. MGS3 already started to irk me a little bit; it has a pass because it shows Big Boss at his youngest, but the man has no ideals, he doesn't think for himself, he just blindly follows either his country or The Boss until a catalyst makes him rethink his loyalties, but even after that we haven't seen clear signs that he does any thinking of his own. MGS4 was abysmal in this regard, with an aged Snake that, though vulnerable, should have been wiser than ever. Instead, he became even more of a puppet than he ever was before, never making choices of his own free will, and with the game never even making a hint as to what his ideals or thoughts were in regards to anything.
I'm hyped as hell for MGSV, but it's almost solely because of the gameplay. I cannot allow myself to get hyped for this game's plot after everything. The theme of revenge excites me a lot, but we've already seen in the trailers that Kaz is the one most hell bent in exacting revenge on his perceived enemy, and that Big Boss just tags along for the ride. Hell, he (Kaz) is even seen wearing the trench coat of the classic Big Boss design. The things that were supposed to be iconic of Big Boss' character and that turned out to be borrowed from other characters just keeps piling up. It's heartbreaking, really.
Obviously, in Metal Gear, if you want a character to be moderately well developed and fleshed out, you'd damn better hope he is not the playable character. Maybe Solid Snake can time travel and give Big Boss an hour long speech about life and shit at the end of MGSV. Apparently that's the only way in which one of the Snakes can be moderately fleshed out in MGSV.
Well said.
All of the Snakes are hollow, borderline shitty characters, to be honest. Raiden and what he goes through in MGS2 is actually more interesting than any of them.
His speech of Outer Heaven at the end of Peace Walker pulled that off extremely well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMBE4Swd-oc
"I'm no hero. Never was, never will be. I'm just an old killer, hired to do some wet work."
Snake never accepting himself as anything other than there to follow the orders of those around him.
I couldn't agree more. Kojima has shown time and time again that he is utterly incapable of creating an MGS with a decisive main character who makes decisions for himself. It suited MGS1, as the idea of Snake being used was a major element of the plot, and MGS2 with Raiden being a newbie through whom to see Snake in a better light worked really, really well too. MGS3 already started to irk me a little bit; it has a pass because it shows Big Boss at his youngest, but the man has no ideals, he doesn't think for himself, he just blindly follows either his country or The Boss until a catalyst makes him rethink his loyalties, but even after that we haven't seen clear signs that he does any thinking of his own. MGS4 was abysmal in this regard, with an aged Snake that, though vulnerable, should have been wiser than ever. Instead, he became even more of a puppet than he ever was before, never making choices of his own free will, and with the game never even making a hint as to what his ideals or thoughts were in regards to anything.
I'm hyped as hell for MGSV, but it's almost solely because of the gameplay. I cannot allow myself to get hyped for this game's plot after everything. The theme of revenge excites me a lot, but we've already seen in the trailers that Kaz is the one most hell bent in exacting revenge on his perceived enemy, and that Big Boss just tags along for the ride. Hell, he (Kaz) is even seen wearing the trench coat of the classic Big Boss design. The things that were supposed to be iconic of Big Boss' character and that turned out to be borrowed from other characters just keeps piling up. It's heartbreaking, really.
Obviously, in Metal Gear, if you want a character to be moderately well developed and fleshed out, you'd damn better hope he is not the playable character. Maybe Solid Snake can time travel and give Big Boss an hour long speech about life and shit at the end of MGSV. Apparently that's the only way in which one of the Snakes can be moderately fleshed out in MGSV.
That line was fine, I agree, but if he's just a tool to be used by others, he should at least be smarter about his job, take the initiative, and know what should be done in any given situation. Letting the first stranger he stumbles upon stick him with a syringe after the shit that happened in MGS1 certainly doesn't say much in his favor. Neither does failing at taking his own life when, at the time, he was convinced he would become a weapon of mass destruction.
You know what bugs me the most about GZ? Snake is once again not making his own decisions. With Solid Snake it basically turned out that he was a pawn all along and that was his story. He was a pawn with a role to play and a burden to carry.
With Big Boss, I want to see more of a man on a mission. One of his choosing. Forging his own destiny. In the opening of Ground Zeroes we hear Snake ask Kaz "So go in and silence the targets?" And Kaz tells him otherwise. Really? The legendary Big Boss just lightly wants to go kill a child? I want Big Boss to have some conviction. He supposedly recruits all these soldiers but how? With no ideals of his own? By letting Kaz do all his thinking for him?
KojiPro writes their dialog backwards. In most modern games its side characters that make obvious observations and state them out loud to highlight them to the player. In MGS games its the main character who fills in blanks and the supporting cast who makes all the revelations and puts put thought.
I hope TPP shows us a Big Boss who takes control.
I have said this time and time again. It was SUPER annoying in PW where BB is now in charge of a global PMC after having quit from ruling the world secretly as a Patriot and yet still he doesn't seem to take charge. Rather, Kaz seems to be the brains behind everything with BB giving tacit approval for everything Kaz suggests. It sorta deflates the entire Big Boss mythos.
Portable Ops is probably the best example of how charismatic Big Boss can be to other soldiers. When all the soldiers start shooting at the ICBMG, that scene was just plain fantastic.
Or, maybe, TPP is where the turnaround happens and Big Boss stops taking orders and suggestions from others. If The Phantom Pain is 9 years after Ground Zeroes, that takes us into 1984. In the early 90s, Big Boss returned to the US to take over FOXHOUND. I mean, at this point he has to have rejected others telling him what to do and becoming a true leader.
I have said this time and time again. It was SUPER annoying in PW where BB is now in charge of a global PMC after having quit from ruling the world secretly as a Patriot and yet still he doesn't seem to take charge. Rather, Kaz seems to be the brains behind everything with BB giving tacit approval for everything Kaz suggests. It sorta deflates the entire Big Boss mythos.
Well Kaz just wants to run a business while BB wants to give soldiers a place and purpose, a lot of the scenes that might showcase Big Boss as a leader and a respected one at that are only talked about, never seen. We are constantly reminded though that the only reason most have joined is because they want to fight for him.
Though the way he eventually becomes a hero to the Sandinistas as they chant his name is a good moment, as is the tutorial where you see just how much the soldiers respect him.
There's also that one mission is PW where you play as an MSF member, and have to prevent soldiers form interfering in Boss's fight with Peace Walker, and periodically Big Boss gives supporting messages as you go about the task. It's a small detail, but it highlights how much he cares for his soldiers and how devoted they are to him.
Portable Ops is probably the best example of how charismatic Big Boss can be to other soldiers. When all the soldiers start shooting at the ICBMG, that scene was just plain fantastic.