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E3 - Microsoft Microsoft’s Xbox Elite 2 controller arrives on November 4th for $179.99

Nikana

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Looks like £10 worth of improvements over a standard controller with a 300% markup to me.

Kind of like buying the higestest end graphics card for that 5-10% edge, its just not worth it unless money is no issue. I think a controller is even more egregious though as I cant see how they can justify the price, it's not like they are pushing current technology to its limits.
You clearly have no idea how engineering works.
 

Hostile_18

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You clearly have no idea how engineering works.
Is any other official controller not well engineered? (Spoilers: they are).

Premium products very often are priced well over what would be considered a reasonable margin when they are targeted only to a niche market. I'd love to hear what makes this controller worth 3 times the price of a standard controller in terms of engineering. As mentioned I can totally understand a graphics card that is pushing the boundary of current tech... but a controller? It's just like premium clothing 10% better product, massive mark up, just paying for the "prestige".
 
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Nikana

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Is any other official controller not well engineered? (Spoilers: they are).

Premium products very often are priced well over what would be considered a reasonable margin when they are targeted only to a niche market. I'd love to hear what makes this controller worth 3 times the price of a standard controller in terms of engineering. As mentioned I can totally understand a graphics card that is pushing the boundary of current tech... but a controller? It's just like premium clothing 10% better product, massive mark up, just paying for the "prestige".
To be able to put 4 back panels, adjustable tensioning mechanics, additional trigger stops, a rechargable battery, more reliable parts altogether (the triggers, bumpers, and stick modules are all improved) into the SAME form factor is incredibly impressive from an engineering stand point. Form factor is everything.

If it was so easy as you claim then why are phones and other tech like your graphics card you mentioned so expensive? Phones are hardly pushing the boundaries any more. But it's the form factor.

Graphics cards are sold at premiums to cover R and D. Same here with the elite controllers. As well as like i stated before, form factor.

Again, you clearly don't know how engineering works.
 
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Kingwingin

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didnt the first xbox one controller cost 100 million to develop? cant imagine the elite series is much different considering they improved on every aspect of the original controller. also this controller was leaked back in January 2018, that's almost 2 years they could have put into testing and improving things
 

Jigsaah

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didnt the first xbox one controller cost 100 million to develop? cant imagine the elite series is much different considering they improved on every aspect of the original controller. also this controller was leaked back in January 2018, that's almost 2 years they could have put into testing and improving things
yea....still "could have" isn't enough to get me to spend $180 day 1.
 

Hostile_18

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Your missing my point, which was the premium version of nearly anything includes a margin far greater than the base or moderate versions whatever the cost to make/research etc.

Premium phones/ graphics cards you name it the premium version has a far higher % of profit for the company producing it.

I just don't see how the costs could justify that kind of price tag even taking into account a reasonable mark up (as its marketed as a premium product).

Ultimately it's all speculation though unless we had a break down of costs infront of us.

If money isn't an issue I'm sure it is the best you can buy... just that's 10-20% better for 3 times as much. That's my only issue.
 

Nikana

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Your missing my point, which was the premium version of nearly anything includes a margin far greater than the base or moderate versions whatever the cost to make/research etc.

Premium phones/ graphics cards you name it the premium version has a far higher % of profit for the company producing it.

I just don't see how the costs could justify that kind of price tag even taking into account a reasonable mark up (as its marketed as a premium product).

Ultimately it's all speculation though unless we had a break down of costs infront of us.

If money isn't an issue I'm sure it is the best you can buy... just that's 10-20% better for 3 times as much. That's my only issue.
You're changing your story. Are you arguing that the price doesn't justify the product or the price doesn't justify the materials. Because they are very different things.

First you said it was $10 more for 3x the mark up. Which isn't true.

If you want to factor in the literal physical parts then sure, I guess? But If that's how you quantify products in general, than you should never buy anything but the absolute basics of any product.

But to say that there isn't more value quantified by the engineering and actual craftsmanship you are sorely mistaken.

Also I'm going to guess you don't own an elite or elite V2 so you don't have any real frame of reference to go by which makes your opinion hard to take seriously.
 

Hostile_18

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You're changing your story. Are you arguing that the price doesn't justify the product or the price doesn't justify the materials. Because they are very different things.

First you said it was $10 more for 3x the mark up. Which isn't true.

If you want to factor in the literal physical parts then sure, I guess? But If that's how you quantify products in general, than you should never buy anything but the absolute basics of any product.

But to say that there isn't more value quantified by the engineering and actual craftsmanship you are sorely mistaken.

Also I'm going to guess you don't own an elite or elite V2 so you don't have any real frame of reference to go by which makes your opinion hard to take seriously.
I said it "looks" like 10 pounds more for 3 times the standard price but that's just exaggeration. I'm saying despite what ever the extra costs were the extra mark up looks likely to be huge.

I don't own it though just from what I've seen. If you only count people who have invested so much of their own money you'd likely have skewed results as they must already have a good idea it's for them. I bet theres alot of X box owners that "nope" out at the price. Best bet is looking on sites that review a lot of tech etc.
 

OnlookerDelay

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A. It's not about double the price of the original elite.

B. It's not $200.

C. How is anything with replaceable parts automatically make it a rip off?

D.who are you to say that it's a rip off? Who died and made you the rip off negotiator?

E. I think every apple product is shit. Does that mean they are rip offs? Nope, just not for me and as a consumer that's my right to not buy it and as a level minded person I understand why others would find it compelling.
Well played sir, you armed yourself with facts and poignantly neutered your counterpart!
 

Nikana

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I said it "looks" like 10 pounds more for 3 times the standard price but that's just exaggeration. I'm saying despite what ever the extra costs were the extra mark up looks likely to be huge.

I don't own it though just from what I've seen. If you only count people who have invested so much of their own money you'd likely have skewed results as they must already have a good idea it's for them. I bet theres alot of X box owners that "nope" out at the price. Best bet is looking on sites that review a lot of tech etc.
So you're only qualm is you think they are making more money than they should? Based on the parts used?
 
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Nikana

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That its priced so high for what it is (to me) and competitively to the standard SKU and RRP.
Again, craftsmanship and engineering go a long way. Which don't seem to factor into your analysis, which is fine, but to say it's not worth it is hyperbole.

It's one thing to charge too much for a product simply because of a brand and label but the teardown proves this is a high quality crafted piece of hardware which comes at a premium.
 

nemiroff

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That its priced so high for what it is (to me) and competitively to the standard SKU and RRP.
It's a premium product with a premium look and feel, premium features, and with a premium price. If you have the money and the interest in the best it's worth it, and if you dont it's not. It's not complicated.
 

Hostile_18

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someone should start an xbox one amazonbasics thread for poor GAF so they stop stinking up this one
Loving how people dont think the price VS value of something isn't worth discussion in a gaming forum.

Microsoft might as well double the price again for all *some* people care.

It boggles the mind that you could buy THREE standard controllers (+ change) for the price of this one. If you see three times the craftsmanship, parts, r&d than fair enough. Based on what I've seen I don't.
 
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Kanton

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Some of you focus on price like my cheap grumpy old aunt. Unless you are a weekend casual, to say this is overpriced is laughable. Development of enthusiast products like this is exactly what we want. They finally fixed the loose analog sticks... too bad about the built in battery, but ill take it. Instabuy.
 

Revas

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It's a nice controller, I enjoy the improvements over the series 1 elite controller. You're not getting a bargain though, however most controllers that have the features this one does costs about the same.
 
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Hostile_18

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Some of you focus on price like my cheap grumpy old aunt. Unless you are a weekend casual, to say this is overpriced is laughable. Development of enthusiast products like this is exactly what we want. They finally fixed the loose analog sticks... too bad about the built in battery, but ill take it. Instabuy.
Sounds like a Fallout 1st subscriber ;)

So they fix problems they them selves created, charge over THREE times the standard amount and its "exactly what you want".

I honestly don't get it. I'd happily pay for a premium controller but anything over double is too much (and that's alot).

Its not about if you can afford it, it's about the value of money and what they offer for it.

If you never want to challenge exorbinate pricing than fair enough, companies will love you but for the rest of us we vote with with our wallets.

If your fortunate enough to have alot of money then absolutely buy this, its technically the best controller... but it's not 3 times better (I'd imagine) in most peoples reasonable estimation.
 
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Spukc

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Won't work on ipad pro (xbox one s works)
Won't work on mayflash switch adpater wireless. (xbox one s works)
Switching devices is a fucking pig to do. pc xbox etc
not sure if i am happy with no replaceable batteries (what is my controller is dead) can't just pop in a fresh pair of batteries.

everything else feels fing premium. DAMN SHAME.

sending mine back i think... :(
 
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Revas

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Sounds like a Fallout 1st subscriber ;)

So they fix problems they them selves created, charge over THREE times the standard amount and its "exactly what you want".

I honestly don't get it. I'd happily pay for a premium controller but anything over double is too much (and that's alot).

Its not about if you can afford it, it's about the value of money and what they offer for it.

If you never want to challenge exorbinate pricing than fair enough, companies will love you but for the rest of us we vote with with our wallets.

If your fortunate enough to have alot of money then absolutely buy this, its technically the best controller... but it's not 3 times better (I'd imagine) in most peoples reasonable estimation.

I don't think most consumers expect it to be 3x anything. Though I'd argue for some players it's that much better than the standard controller.

The first model had issues, but to say that MS created the problems in a comparison to Bethesda is really misleading. When my Elite had issues MS sent me another one, as an out of warranty replacement. The new one hopefully doesn't have these issues and that is good for customers.
 
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Hostile_18

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I don't think most consumers expect it to be 3x anything. Though I'd argue for some players it's that much better than the standard controller.

The first model had issues, but to say that MS created the problems in a comparison to Bethesda is really misleading. When my Elite had issues MS sent me another one, as an out of warranty replacement. The new one hopefully doesn't have these issues and that is good for customers.
Yeah that's fair enough. No arguing with the customer service here. I think ultimately it comes down to what we expect for the extra amount over a standard controller and that expectation is going to be different for each person. :)

For me personally aside from the money I'd wait on the launch of next gen to see what features the new controllers will have. I know the Playstation 5 for example has the haptic rumble, adaptive triggers etc if there was a pro version of the ps4 controller out now and it didn't have that I'd feel like it would only have a shelf life of a year, even if technically it would still be compatible.
 
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BusierDonkey

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Sounds like a Fallout 1st subscriber ;)

So they fix problems they them selves created, charge over THREE times the standard amount and its "exactly what you want".

I honestly don't get it. I'd happily pay for a premium controller but anything over double is too much (and that's alot).

Its not about if you can afford it, it's about the value of money and what they offer for it.

If you never want to challenge exorbinate pricing than fair enough, companies will love you but for the rest of us we vote with with our wallets.

If your fortunate enough to have alot of money then absolutely buy this, its technically the best controller... but it's not 3 times better (I'd imagine) in most peoples reasonable estimation.
You're not wrong in your thinking, but this controller isn't a conventional accessory. Like you said yourself, it boils down to an individual's own opinion of what it's worth.
For me the justification of the pricing is the same as the argument many people use with cars which can be viewed as irrational at times.

I can buy a Dodge Charger for $30K, or I can buy a Hellcat for $70K+. They are the same platform, share more than 50% of their parts, and perform the same basic function. The Hellcat has a waiting list, the Charger can be found lingering on lots for months and is often sold at a discount. Why? Enough people have decided the extra features are worth more than 100% over the car's base price. The Hellcat is lower production and the unique parts included on the car drive it's manufacturing cost through the roof.

The Elite V2 performs the same basic function as the standard controller, but shares less than 5% of it's parts with the S controller. The Elite will be limited in production as there is a smaller market for a specialty controller. The price tag is daunting to any casual gamer, and only small percentage of gamers will even consider dropping the price. It's a limited peripheral that shares almost no parts with the standard controller, literally everything had to be engineered, then have new molds made for them which is extremely expensive.

For me, this controller is a lot easier to rationalize over an S controller than the Hellcat over a normal Charger, and I'm a car nut.

I can't buy the same quality controller from any other source, and if a third party made the same controller with the same quality, they would charge the same or more. Microsoft has more capacity to produce something like this in the first place which is why it's priced as low as it is (I almost laughed typing that past part). I'm sure there isn't $120 of extra materials in the controller over the S controller, but the cost of building it is probably a lot higher than people might think.

Is it a good deal? Absolutely no, fuck no. While it offers features that some people demand of a specialized controller, it's really pricey.

Is it priced fairly in the market it occupies? Yes. While it's really pricey, it's priced lower than comparable devices despite being better in terms of quality and assembly.
 
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Hostile_18

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You're not wrong in your thinking, but this controller isn't a conventional accessory. Like you said yourself, it boils down to an individual's own opinion of what it's worth.
For me the justification of the pricing is the same as the argument many people use with cars which can be viewed as irrational at times.

I can buy a Dodge Charger for $30K, or I can buy a Hellcat for $70K+. They are the same platform, share more than 50% of their parts, and perform the same basic function. The Hellcat has a waiting list, the Charger can be found lingering on lots for months and is often sold at a discount. Why? Enough people have decided the extra features are worth more than 100% over the car's base price. The Hellcat is lower production and the unique parts included on the car drive it's manufacturing cost through the roof.

The Elite V2 performs the same basic function as the standard controller, but shares less than 5% of it's parts with the S controller. The Elite will be limited in production as there is a smaller market for a specialty controller. The price tag is daunting to any casual gamer, and only small percentage of gamers will even consider dropping the price. It's a limited peripheral that shares almost no parts with the standard controller, literally everything had to be engineered, then have new molds made for them which is extremely expensive.

For me, this controller is a lot easier to rationalize over an S controller than the Hellcat over a normal Charger, and I'm a car nut.

I can't buy the same quality controller from any other source, and if a third party made the same controller with the same quality, they would charge the same or more. Microsoft has more capacity to produce something like this in the first place which is why it's priced as low as it is (I almost laughed typing that past part). I'm sure there isn't $120 of extra materials in the controller over the S controller, but the cost of building it is probably a lot higher than people might think.

Is it a good deal? Absolutely no, fuck no. While it offers features that some people demand of a specialized controller, it's really pricey.

Is it priced fairly in the market it occupies? Yes. While it's really pricey, it's priced lower than comparable devices despite being better in terms of quality and assembly.
You make a lot of solid points.

If R and D is set in stone no matter the cost to manufacture I do wonder if it would of been better released at a slightly lower price point (but still profitable) and could of made as much (if not more profit) from volume of sales instead? I guess we'll never know. I suppose having the cheaper alternative out there might be a problem but I just wish there was a middle ground between the standard and premium prices as there is quite a wide variance financially between the two SKU's.
 
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Nikana

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Loving how people dont think the price VS value of something isn't worth discussion in a gaming forum.

Microsoft might as well double the price again for all *some* people care.

It boggles the mind that you could buy THREE standard controllers (+ change) for the price of this one. If you see three times the craftsmanship, parts, r&d than fair enough. Based on what I've seen I don't.
You keep saying this but don't offer any argument. Saying I don't see the value over and over doesn't get a point across, it comes across like whining honestly.
 
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OnlookerDelay

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Loving how people dont think the price VS value of something isn't worth discussion in a gaming forum.

Microsoft might as well double the price again for all *some* people care.

It boggles the mind that you could buy THREE standard controllers (+ change) for the price of this one. If you see three times the craftsmanship, parts, r&d than fair enough. Based on what I've seen I don't.
You can't make a full assessment based on what you've "seen" where controllers are involved. You can't fully appreciate the engineering and build quality that went into it until you've held it in your hands and taken it for a test drive.
 
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Hostile_18

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You keep saying this but don't offer any argument. Saying I don't see the value over and over doesn't get a point across, it comes across like whining honestly.
Well we both don't know what the total cost to research, manufacture and produce is all we have is educated guesses and comparisons to other skus, rival manufacturers etc.

I'm not knocking anyone who buys it, rather just stating my own perceived lack of value relative to the price point been asked.

At the end of the day if you use it alot, it's better than what you've got, well the price can easily be justified. It's just not a one case fits everybody I don't think .
 

Hostile_18

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You can't make a full assessment based on what you've "seen" where controllers are involved. You can't fully appreciate the engineering and build quality that went into it until you've held it in your hands and taken it for a test drive.
That's true but like anything in life you can't always buy everything you see. You have to make accessments but mine isn't set in stone. If a large number of people report back overly positive I'll happily soften my stance at the relatively high RRP.
 

Nikana

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Well we both don't know what the total cost to research, manufacture and produce is all we have is educated guesses and comparisons to other skus, rival manufacturers etc.

I'm not knocking anyone who buys it, rather just stating my own perceived lack of value relative to the price point been asked.

At the end of the day if you use it alot, it's better than what you've got, well the price can easily be justified. It's just not a one case fits everybody I don't think .
I'm not saying you're knocking anyone but again you give zero actual reasons. So it still comes off whiney. What about do you not like it terms of what your see other than the price?
 
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Hostile_18

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I'm not saying you're knocking anyone but again you give zero actual reasons. So it still comes off whiney. What about do you not like it terms of what your see other than the price?
Nothing, but price is an important factor at least when it's this amount.
 
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chessy_08

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I'm waiting for someone to get it to work with ps4. I'd buy one then
 
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OnlookerDelay

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That's true but like anything in life you can't always buy everything you see. You have to make accessments but mine isn't set in stone. If a large number of people report back overly positive I'll happily soften my stance at the relatively high RRP.
I remember thinking to myself that the Elite 1 was overpriced, just looking at it and reading the specs, at its introduction. I had a friend buy one and once I got my hands on it, my opinion changed entirely, and three days later, I became an owner and never looked back. I got more than my $150 worth of satisfaction out of it in the 3 1/2 years it gave me before it went belly up... and that was due to inadequate packaging during a trip.
 

cartman414

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A. It's not about double the price of the original elite.

B. It's not $200.

C. How is anything with replaceable parts automatically make it a rip off?

D.who are you to say that it's a rip off? Who died and made you the rip off negotiator?

E. I think every apple product is shit. Does that mean they are rip offs? Nope, just not for me and as a consumer that's my right to not buy it and as a level minded person I understand why others would find it compelling.
Agreed with all but E. Even if I wasn't a fan of Apple I'd still admit you get what you pay for with them.
 

Nikana

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No, you didn't. Nowhere did you justify buying a $179 controller.

*EDIT*

Holy shit, not even people on PC take their input methods this seriously.
I did. If you choose not to read it that's your problem.

Leave the thread if all you want to do is shit talk.
 
Aug 8, 2019
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I did. If you choose not to read it that's your problem.

Leave the thread if all you want to do is shit talk.
I read the thread. You didn't.

lol the damn thing is almost half the price of the Xbox One X.

Damn, I already proved it's a rip-off.
 
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You'll last long here.
Maybe I should have been more specific. What added materials, features, and technology actually justifies the ridiculous price tag? You never explained any of that but I've been looking up this controller and watched a couple YouTube videos and I haven't seen anything that justifies the price.

For a simple video game controller with some added features and a little comfort? Knock it down to about $80 then it's worth the price.
 
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Nikana

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Maybe I should have been more specific. What added materials, features, and technology actually justifies the ridiculous price tag? You never explained any of that but I've been looking up this controller and watched a couple YouTube videos and I haven't seen anything that justifies the price.

For a simple video game controller with some added features and a little comfort? Knock it down to about $80 then it's worth the price.
Literally already explained this is a other comment. Form factor.
 

KlickKlack

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.

Is it a good deal? Absolutely no, fuck no. While it offers features that some people demand of a specialized controller, it's really pricey.

Is it priced fairly in the market it occupies? Yes. While it's really pricey, it's priced lower than comparable devices despite being better in terms of quality and assembly.

Absolutely yes.
you are not buying a naked controller for 180€
its a bundle

look:

180€

- 30€- load station

- 20€- case

- 20€- 40 hour accu battery [you cant buy any AA battery with 40 hour playtime]

-10€- 3m usb c cable

+ accessories

180-30-20-20-10= 100€

Scuf controller which is not better cost >150€


elite 2 is great value for the money
 
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