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[StrongBlackVine]

I think it depends a lot on the quality of the title. GTAV didn't seem to have any issues with selling when it reached next-gen consoles and PC a year after it's previous-gen debut.

ROTR is no where near GTAV in popularity or potential longevity.

 

[Nightengale]

I think it depends a lot on the quality of the title. GTAV didn't seem to have any issues with selling when it reached next-gen consoles and PC a year after it's previous-gen debut.

There are exceptions to the rule.

GTA & Minecraft are among those in that fabled list of games.

Sales or not, it's an excellent game. The attitude some of you are showing in these threads is completely unnecessary.

For all and purposes, this is a thread discussing sales, not the quality of the game.

 

[Blobbers]

It sounds like UK natives take issue with the accent. I am not a UK native, so this is not an issue for me.

It's weird, though, because I grew near Boston Massachusetts. Many movies (and games) in the last five years have taken place in and around the city because of its rising popularity.

Boston area accents are notoriously thick and varied. No movie or game that I've seen has ever gotten its local accent correct. But it has never bothered me or anyone I've talked to.

We've all acknowledged that Christian Bale (obviously from Wales) doesn't sound like he's really from Lowell in The Fighter. But we all think it's an incredible performance.

Forget about the accent. She's a bad voice actor too.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I think it depends a lot on the quality of the title. GTAV didn't seem to have any issues with selling when it reached next-gen consoles and PC a year after it's previous-gen debut.

Not necessarily the same situation. Well maybe PC players feel it is similar. Many people double dipped on GTA V in order to get a smoother experience. There also was not a huge PR blunder that haunted it from shortly after the time it was announced. The goodwill the TR series had garnered was pissed away at gamescom.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

The statements are fine, is a great game and from the development perspective a success based on reviews - especially since it is coming out on PS4 and PC

but sales

I seriously want some sort of comment on sales compared to how Tom Raider reboot was disappointing with 3.6million worldwide multiplatform sales - it needs addressing
So does launching against fallout 4

 

[nib95]

He is right at the end of the day. Whilst sales may have tanked, something that naturally he would omit to focus on, the game itself is very good, and the devs can certainly take some solace in that. I suppose there's some added insult to injury in that as well, they work hard to release a great game, and because of other factors, it does poorly. I don't know which parties are most to blame for that, but it is a shame. I'd personally love a crack at a TR3.

 

[Nightengale]

The statements are fine, is a great game and from the development perspective a success based on reviews - especially since it is coming out on PS4 and PC

but sales

I seriously want some sort of comment on sales compared to how Tom Raider reboot was disappointing with 3.6million worldwide multiplatform sales - it needs addressing
So does launching against fallout 4

We'll get some form of statement next year, once Q4 closes and Square has to announce their next round of quarterly financials.

 

[blakep267]

We'll get some form of statement next year, once Q4 closes and Square has to announce their next round of quarterly financials.

Yeah. I don't think SE would try and hide the shipped numbers. It'll probably ship over a million

 

[MisterR]

I think it depends a lot on the quality of the title. GTAV didn't seem to have any issues with selling when it reached next-gen consoles and PC a year after it's previous-gen debut.

That's taking a giant leap. First of all it's GTA. It's a monster, it's going to sell no mater what. Also, it's coming over from the last gen consoles with lots of improvements. It's also released at the tail end of the gen, so lots of people might have missed out on it. Comparing that with ROTR is kind of out there.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

He is right at the end of the day. Whilst sales may have tanked, something that naturally he would omit to focus on, the game itself is very good, and the devs can certainly take some solace in that.

I agree that he right and he should be proud, but why did he post that in a topic about sales? There were lot of topics about critical praise he have joined in. Also there were a few people that were quite rude to him in that topic. He probably won't interact with fans online much in the future which is unfortunate.

 

[Nirolak]

I agree that he right and he should be proud, but why did he post that in a topic about sales? There were lot of topics about critical praise he have joined in. Also there were a few people that were quite rude to him in that topic. He probably won't interact with fans online much in the future which is unfortunate.

Well presumably the implication of said threads is "Will Crystal Dynamics get shut down?"

 

[Zok310]

Well yeah they already got paid, why wouldn't they be happy.

--

20th anniversary huh? Does this mean Crystal Dynamics is wworking on Tomb Raider 2 anniversary?

Because they could have made a hell of a lot more,
The literally walked away from a few hundred million dollars.

 

[Somnia]

I don't think that applies this time. TR 2013 was a reboot. It was also released at the split between console generations. For example I didn't buy the 360 version and waited for it to come out on the PS4. Those factors aren't in play anymore. The second game after a reboot should build on its predecessor, and there is no impending better version coming up to impede sales. RotTR's sales should be more front loaded than TR 2013.

Also note that next year looks to be an exceptionally packed year for great games. There really doesn't seem to be that much of a lull for RotTR to catch on. The only thing that looks like it would help rebound sales would be a quick and deep price reduction.

I get what you're saying, but disagree. Tomb Raider is a franchise that has a lot of fans and love behind it and the legs of previous games to me shows it will keep selling. The TR2013 kept selling prior to the DE, then the DE launched to lackluster sales, but kept selling. If I remember right it was always on the PSN top sellers and was always higher up on the XB1 top seller chart also.

The series just sells over time, but unfortunatly due to the exclusive period on this one it doesn't have that huge up front sales either, hence me saying sales will be lower no matter what.

Yes next year is packed with great games... right now, delays are invetiable. I think the PC launch date in Q1 works perfect for them, the Q4 launch on PS4 could be bad though. This is where legs and sales will come in handy.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Read the title as Ryse and was wondering what Square had to do with Crytek.

This game will probably pick up at Christmas anyway.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Well presumably the implication of said threads is "Will Crystal Dynamics get shut down?"

Not really. I have been following topics on that forum(including the one we are currently discussing) for a while and sentiment shared by most is that it was a bad deal, but only a very small minority of people think CD or franchise is in any real trouble.

This game will probably pick up at Christmas anyway.

People said the same thing about Black Friday. I don't see many kids asking for ROTR as a gift.

 

[Tobor]

The interesting question is whether or not the next game(assuming there is one, which seems likely) will be timed exclusive again.

My guess, it won't. Simultaneous launch on all three platforms is a safe bet.

 

[Wereroku]

Well presumably the implication of said threads is "Will Crystal Dynamics get shut down?"

I haven't read through the whole thread over there but was it concern about the studio or the franchise? CD is probably fine they will just get assigned to another IP if TR tanks too much. However I could see the franchise going dormant again if the sales are too weak and just because they are satisfied with the quality doesn't really give an indication of security for the franchise.

I get what you're saying, but disagree. Tomb Raider is a franchise that has a lot of fans and love behind it and the legs of previous games to me shows it will keep selling. The TR2013 kept selling prior to the DE, then the DE launched to lackluster sales, but kept selling. If I remember right it was always on the PSN top sellers and was always higher up on the XB1 top seller chart also.

The series just sells over time, but unfortunatly due to the exclusive period on this one it doesn't have that huge up front sales either, hence me saying sales will be lower no matter what.

Yes next year is packed with great games... right now, delays are invetiable. I think the PC launch date in Q1 works perfect for them, the Q4 launch on PS4 could be bad though. This is where legs and sales will come in handy.

I think the PC version is going to be the make or break point for ROTR. With steam sales and various promotions they can garner a lot more sales and maybe profit but I don't think the PS4 will garner a great deal of sales at launch or as a tail. There will be more than enough new competing games coming out in Q4 that are more attractive propositions.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

I get what you're saying, but disagree. Tomb Raider is a franchise that has a lot of fans and love behind it and the legs of previous games to me shows it will keep selling. The TR2013 kept selling prior to the DE, then the DE launched to lackluster sales, but kept selling. If I remember right it was always on the PSN top sellers and was always higher up on the XB1 top seller chart also.

The series just sells over time, but unfortunatly due to the exclusive period on this one it doesn't have that huge up front sales either, hence me saying sales will be lower no matter what.

Yes next year is packed with great games... right now, delays are invetiable. I think the PC launch date in Q1 works perfect for them, the Q4 launch on PS4 could be bad though. This is where legs and sales will come in handy.

Except that "sales over time" not only has a lower NPV to the company, but also those sales occur at a lower price. The game sold well when it was heavily discounted, not at MSRP.

 

[jaxpunk]

People said the same thing about Black Friday. I don't see many kids asking for ROTR as a gift.

Weird, where can I browse what kids are asking for gifts at? Or do you just hang out and ease drop on the local mall santa?

 

[InsaneTiger]

Why would they say otherwise?

 

[Sydle]

They made an amazing game and should be happy with it. It will sell well as it continues to release on other platforms.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

The Dev team did their job making a great game. The blame can't be on them

And no-one is blaming the dev team. It's all on Square-Enix as far as I'm concerned for accepting a stupid deal for minor short term gains.

The ones who should feel bad were the decision makers who decide to go exclusive and launching at the very same day of Fallout 4. The whole thing is like a manual to manufacture a sales disaster step by step.

Yep; from reveal to launch this whole thing feels like a disaster and a good way to give the middle finger to the majority of your audience. It should be held as a case study in how not to market and release a game.

"Square are happy with Crystal and Eidos Montreal"

From what i heard, no they are not, Square especially, CD were the ones who have the close relationship with Microsoft, and they worked with Microsoft to put the deal to square.

Hmm. What are your links to CD, if I may ask?

eh, square still bear the blame since they ultimately signed off on the deal, but CD weren't just pawns in some corporate deal behind their backs, they wanted this deal, they got it, do the math if you think square would be happy with the outcome.

CD must have a lot of freedom within S-E if they can orchestrate a deal like that. Did CD approach MS, or did Spencer approach CD in the first instance?

These seriously don't make it sound all that bad. I doubt SE or MS were expecting incredible sales figures after the way things are turned out. From what he's saying, neither company is angry with them which is good news imo because it means a higher chance of getting a sequel.

I don't think anyone can spin these numbers as satisfactory. Square-Enix were disappointed with the first game selling only 3.4 million copies in its opening month. If this game has even sold a fifth or a quarter of that there's no way S-E would be happy with that, regardless of whether MS footed the bill.

So let's imagine an alternate reality where the game launched on both Xbox One, and PS4 at the same time.

Does everyone believe the sales would be much(much) higher just because it would be on the more adopted system?
I think the quarter of the year it came out in was filled with great games that make it hard to justify buying the game over others.

There's no doubt it would have done significantly better had it launched on PS4 and PC at the same time, but on the other hand it would have been S-E publishing it and perhaps they would have been more open to delaying it to a better release window, because releasing it slap bang in the middle of Halo 5, Black Ops 3, Fallout 4, Battlefront, Assassin's Creed, etc probably wasn't a good idea.

I just hope there isn't another deal for the next Tomb Raider game.

There won't be. At most it might have exclusive marketing, but honestly after this mess I wouldn't be surprised if S-E would rather work with Sony than MS next time around.

Is there any way they'd (Square) pull the plug on the PS4 version of the game as a result of poor sales?

I seriously doubt it. Now that the game is built all it needs is to be ported to two other systems, which I can't imagine would need much manpower or money. If they wanted to be really cheap about it, they could even release it digitally on PC and PS4, although in the case of the latter I expect that would definitely result in much lower sales.

That would mean :

-Sales are poor enough
-SE thought of an exit clause in this case (implies they're smart enough)
-MS let SE put such a clause in the contract (implies they're dumb enough)

So chances are very, very slim.

I think you've misunderstood the question. SolidChamp is talking about canning the PS4 version altogether.

 

[Somnia]

Except that "sales over time" not only has a lower NPV to the company, but also those sales occur at a lower price. The game sold well when it was heavily discounted, not at MSRP.

While true, you can't discount the fact it sold over time. The game was profitable (TR2013) even when it sold heavily discounted and over time.

ROTR will most likely also be profitable due to the deal with MS and then selling over time.

The point is, you still make money over time. As I've stated from my first post they clearly will not sell as many or make as much as TR2013 due to the loss in up front sales, but do not discount its legs and money made over the life of the game.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Weird, where can I browse what kids are asking for gifts at? Or do you just hang out and ease drop on the local mall santa?

It's common sense. The same games that were popular this month will be popular next month. This theory that every one playing Fallout, BF, COD etc in November will pick up ROTR later seems like nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

Well he ain't wrong. Game looks amazing tbh

 

[Jobbs]

Forget about the accent. She's a bad voice actor too.

Disagree. I think she's quite good.

The dev team have nothing to feel bad about it, by any metric they made a good game.

The ones who should feel bad were the decision makers who decide to go exclusive and launching at the very same day of Fallout 4. The whole thing is like a manual to manufacture a sales disaster step by step.

Unfortunately something tells me that if anyone is harmed by the poor sales it'll be the devs.

 

[AnthonypUK]

Hmm. What are your links to CD, if I may ask?



CD must have a lot of freedom within S-E if they can orchestrate a deal like that. Did CD approach MS, or did Spencer approach CD in the first instance?

None, just know a guy who works in the industry who passes along what he hears.

He didn't go into detail, just that CD worked with Microsoft to put the deal to Square and persuade them it was right for the franchise.

 

[etta]

None, just know a guy who works in the industry who passes along what he hears.

He didn't go into detail, just that CD worked with Microsoft to put the deal to Square and persuade them it was right for the franchise.

That would be hilarious if true, which I doubt it is.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

It has everything to do with the audience if they are playing other things when it releases.
When the first Tomb Raider released, it was a drought of a gaming month.
This would make people who are not even fans of the series at least think about picking it up.

Now, we have the opposite.
We are flooded with games, and people can't be arsed to hold all these.

BTW, the amount of PS4's in hand will always mean more sales, so that is far from what I am arguing.
I only argue how much of an impact selling Tomb Raider, this quarter, with all these games, on both platforms would be so much greater.

I truly think they picked a horrible month to drop, that is all.

Yep, there is no reason they couldn't have waited until late January to release it, where people would have been starved for new content.

 

[Zil33184]

The interesting question is whether or not the next game(assuming there is one, which seems likely) will be timed exclusive again.

My guess, it won't. Simultaneous launch on all three platforms is a safe bet.

Probably, but it's worth considering if this stunt has damaged the brand going forward. If the PS4 version gets ignored next year due to its late release, then you have a much smaller user base for any future sequels as anyone skipping 2 is unlikely to buy 3.

If CD pushed for this deal, then I'd imagine the folks there are very much worried about sales right now. If it was Square that foisted exclusivity on the developers then their reaction makes sense: "we delivered on the game, everything else is on MS and SE".

 

[WoolyNinja]

There is a reason why so many games come out at the end of the year. That is where the money is. So yes a January release date has less competition, but games released then are also fighting over a much smaller pot of money.

This chart is so flawed... of course there are more sales during that time, its because thats when publishers decide to release all their new games. More new games = more sales

On topic: The quote makes sense for Square, why wouldn't Square be happy with the dev team, by all accounts they've made a fantastic follow-up to TR2013. Square knows they'll get even more sales out of it when it releases on the PC and then the PS4. But I don't quite understand the reason Microsoft would be very happy with Squares dev team as all Microsoft should care about is sales and how many consoles it helped push with its exclusivity.

 

[RedRedSuit]

Yeah I didn't like it there. As someone form the UK it sounds like the accent isn't quite right. It seems slightly off and forced, which isn't that surprising because despite being born in England, she's spent a decent amount of time in America before she was fully mature

Hah! I'm not British but just finished TR: DE, and her accent really bugged me! I didn't know if it was authentic or not, but I found it supremely annoying! I think it was mostly how she pronounced things like "first" as if they were really "fast." Ugh, it made me cringe hard. Also the various death screams and sounds of pain seemed really off.

 

[Wanderer5]

Well I glad this game looks like a improvement over TR2013 least. I likely look forward to the PC version.

Well yeah they already got paid, why wouldn't they be happy.

--

20th anniversary huh? Does this mean Crystal Dynamics is wworking on Tomb Raider 2 anniversary?

It wouldn't be the anniversary for TR2, nor I not sure if I would enjoy them butchering with the remake lol (given the overall impressions of Anniversary as a remake to the first game), but I hope there some cool stuff for the anniversary.

 

[Apathy]

Well presumably the implication of said threads is "Will Crystal Dynamics get shut down?"

If people think that then they are out of touch with how the world works. Now if it's true that cd were the ones that orchestrated and brought the deal to S-E about making it an exclusive for MS, that main person is definitely in some trouble with the higher ups. What that would mean? Could range from demotion to just getting rid of that one person to the studio not getting that type of freedom it had to even propose that kind of deal again. The studio is not shutting down over this, that's for sure.

 

[The Baron Count]

It's amazing how in most other creative fields, a creator can express satisfaction at something great that they worked on that has been well received, yet in this industry you just get a bunch of people yelling "but sales".

 

[sirap]

I know a few devs who are unhappy with how the exclusivity deal turned out. They put a lot of sweat and blood into the game, and it definitely shows. It's just a shame that not every fan of the series can enjoy it now.

Basically, whoever worked out the deal with Microsoft fucked up bad. We'll see how the game does when it gets released next year, but I doubt it'll stand out from the packed 2016 lineup.

 

[Wereroku]

I know a few devs who are unhappy with how the exclusivity deal turned out. They put a lot of sweat and blood into the game, and it definitely shows. It's just a shame that not every fan of the series can enjoy it now.

Basically, whoever worked out the deal with Microsoft fucked up bad. We'll see how the game does when it gets released next year, but I doubt it'll stand out from the packed 2016 lineup.

Any chance you can ask them if CD bringing the deal to SE is bullshit or not?

 

[CrichtonKicks]

We'll get some form of statement next year, once Q4 closes and Square has to announce their next round of quarterly financials.

This is MS published isn't it? Wonder how much SE actually makes on a per copy basis and whether they will actually discuss it much at all.

I think the PC version is going to be the make or break point for ROTR. With steam sales and various promotions they can garner a lot more sales and maybe profit but I don't think the PS4 will garner a great deal of sales at launch or as a tail. There will be more than enough new competing games coming out in Q4 that are more attractive propositions.

If this PC version is truly Q1 16 (is that actually stated anywhere?) then I think it has the potential to do quite well. The game is quite a looker and will only benefit from being highlighted on the hardware. I can see it having a pretty decent tail on the PC.

PS4 version, on the other hand, is likely to be pretty close to DOA and I expect it to be PS Plus fodder in short order.

 

[Wanderer5]

This is MS published isn't it? Wonder how much SE actually makes on a per copy basis and whether they will actually discuss it much at all.



If this PC version is truly Q1 16 (is that actually stated anywhere?) then I think it has the potential to do quite well. The game is quite a looker and will only benefit from being highlighted on the hardware. I can see it having a pretty decent tail on the PC.

PS4 version, on the other hand, is likely to be pretty close to DOA and I expect it to be PS Plus fodder in short order.

The PC version has been stated to be a early 2016 release.

 

[RootCause]

I know a few devs who are unhappy with how the exclusivity deal turned out. They put a lot of sweat and blood into the game, and it definitely shows. It's just a shame that not every fan of the series can enjoy it now.

Basically, whoever worked out the deal with Microsoft fucked up bad. We'll see how the game does when it gets released next year, but I doubt it'll stand out from the packed 2016 lineup.

Yeah, part of me doesn't see it doing too well next year. It's going to be hard to get costumers to get excited for a game from a year ago, at full price, especially when Uncharted will be out by then, and most would have their appetite filled. Hope I'm wrong though, I'd like to see the series continue.

 

[scitek]

It's amazing how in most other creative fields, a creator can express satisfaction at something great that they worked on that has been well received, yet in this industry you just get a bunch of people yelling "but sales".

I'm going to assume you're thinking of fields where the artist or whatever is often working independently and has the leeway to not care so much about sales. I also know the movie and television industries are not two of those fields you're referring to.

 

[Apathy]

I'm going to assume you're thinking of fields where the artist or whatever is often working independently and has the leeway to not care so much about sales. I also know the movie and television industries are not two of those fields you're referring to.

Pretty sure music isn't that either.

 

[Boke1879]

Until we have PS and PC numbers i find the people talking about 'franchise damage' hilariously transparent. They might as well just admit to themselves they're mad about having to wait for the game to come to another platform.

late ports really don't sell well. It may see a decent bump on PC but having it release a whole year later on PS4 just isn't smart. It'll most likely go up against Holiday games again and get lost in the shuffle.

 

[scitek]

Pretty sure music isn't that either.

I've seen plenty of press over the last week about how well Adele's new album sold.

 

[sirap]

Any chance you can ask them if CD bringing the deal to SE is bullshit or not?

I'll ask, but I doubt they know what really happened (besides the usuall office gossip). CD doesn't have a flat structure like Valve, and the folks that I'm close to are prop and texture artists

 

[dumbo]

If people think that then they are out of touch with how the world works. Now if it's true that cd were the ones that orchestrated and brought the deal to S-E about making it an exclusive for MS, that main person is definitely in some trouble with the higher ups. What that would mean? Could range from demotion to just getting rid of that one person to the studio not getting that type of freedom it had to even propose that kind of deal again. The studio is not shutting down over this, that's for sure.

It's worth remembering that we don't know the terms of the deal, but it seems (from the quote) that the developer/SE felt the game needed to a certain metacritic target.

So, it's possible that MS underwrote sales of the title. e.g. "if you hit 85% metacritic, then we will guarantee sales of X million units", or maybe "we'll take no cut of the first X copies". In which case, it's possible that SE/CD haven't done badly at all.

From my own perspective, given that I'm waiting a year for it on PC, I'll probably wait until it's cheaper in a steam sale .

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I've seen plenty of press over the last week about how well Adele's new album sold.

Aren't you reinforcing their point?

 

[Tobor]

Probably, but it's worth considering if this stunt has damaged the brand going forward. If the PS4 version gets ignored next year due to its late release, then you have a much smaller user base for any future sequels as anyone skipping 2 is unlikely to buy 3.

If CD pushed for this deal, then I'd imagine the folks there are very much worried about sales right now. If it was Square that foisted exclusivity on the developers then their reaction makes sense: "we delivered on the game, everything else is on MS and SE".

The brand is definitely going to take a hit over this. Hopefully with a simultaneous launch for a third game they can rebuild some goodwill.

 

[Wereroku]

I'll ask, but I doubt they know what really happened (besides the usuall office gossip). CD doesn't have a flat structure like Valve, and the folks that I'm close to are prop and texture artists

Would be interesting to know if that is part of the office gossip either way. But yeah if that is true only upper management would have been involved in it which makes the rumor seem bullshit.

 

[Nightengale]

This is MS published isn't it? Wonder how much SE actually makes on a per copy basis and whether they will actually discuss it much at all.

Despite the Q4 2015 version being MS published, it was still featured in the previous quarterly earnings as one of Square's big releases for 2015.

So yeah, I expect Square to discuss it. It's not as if the previous quarterly had them washing their hands off ROTR 2015.