Support NeoGAF

[Rayme]

Pricing on XBLA is already so steep

I disagree completely with this.

Having paid $30 for Tekken5 on PSN the other night: yes, I do to.

 

[PuppetMaster]

I for one support MS's brave move toward a 1 console future.

 

[Mojovonio]

I for one support MS's brave move toward a 1 console future.

Apple?

 

[Visualante]

On XBLA you're competing against well priced classic games. People aren't going to take risks on indie games very often. See Jeff Minter.

As a result I would expect a higher premium, and I would probably go elsewhere. Was this 70% just bait to get developers on XNA?

On the other hand, Microsoft built Live- and it's still not making money. They can do whatever they want with their platform. I just don't think it's cool.

 

[Tieno]

...It's a business. *Groan*

Are people really not understanding this? If you bring an idea to investors, you are saying "I don't have the power. You do. So please give me the connections and funding so I can realize my potential." Not the other way around.

Most people rarely even get 50% of the company/ or ideas that they come up with because of that. If people can get better deals on PSN or WiiWare then cool! But it's not because Microsoft is evil or something.

They're a company.

Of course they are a company, of course it's business, but it's shitty business. Valve has similar services like MS, but they aren't this stubborn and 'business' like. It doesn't seem to be unavoidable. You don't have to be an asshole just because you're a 'company'

 

[Death_Born]

I for one support MS's brave move toward a 1 console future.

Wii?

>_>
<_<

*runs away*

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Wait I thought Kotaku was a shit source...or was that just yesterday?

 

[kaching]

35% still seems very good.

Maybe, but coming from 70%? That's the problem. You're supposed do these things more incrementally. Hi, your rent just went up 100%. That'd work.

 

[Master Z]

joke post?

MS has been screwing little guys for decades

:lol

Well, sure. But in the context of videogames and indie developers this is suprising to me considering all the talk of enpowering developers that MS has been spouting for the past couple of years. The cut seems too steep to me. Why not just cut it to 50%? These are small independent developers here, not EA or Activision.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Wiiware is supposedly 60/40. Far more profit.

Actually it's 70% developer, 30% Nintendo. Developers can negotiate publishing any way they want (As you would a normal retail game) and developers are free to choose their own pricing . A far cry from MS's absolute bullshit especially with the higher costs of the 360 SDK and the higher costs of development as well!

 

[Mojovonio]

What I find funny, is that its MS who is biting the hand that feeds.

And what is the PSN share?

Do we know?

 

[Joni]

That depends on the percentage of royalty you get from PSN and Wiiware. 35% is pretty much in line with what actual game developers get.

Yeah, but a percentage of the money goes to the publishers too in that case. Publishers grant financial security to a developer during a project. Indies don't have that security, so they need the money to fund their following project.

 

[harSon]

Actually it's 70% developer, 30% Nintendo. Developers can negotiate publishing any way they want (As you would a normal retail game) and developers are free to choose their own pricing . A far cry from MS's absolute bullshit especially with the higher costs of the 360 SDK and the higher costs of development as well!

Source? I can't find anything.

 

[xaosslug]

Can any fucking thread make it 2 pages without people turning it into a Troll war?!?!

There is no actual confirmation

Most here are not devs and/or accountants (most of the negative posts, I imagine are from people who do not own a 360 and just seem to live to bash anything MS) so what does this mean to you sitting at your house....not a fucking thing. The devs will not leave because LIVE is light years ahead for distribution than the competitors.

sure, there's no 'official' confirmation, but Jim's reply is close enough. Also, this thread is not even close to being Troll War territory. Though, I'd say your post is flirting with meltdown status... :lol Anyway, now that GAF's spotlighted this story, we should have some sort of official confirmation sooner or later.

 

[PistolGrip]

Oh hi PG.

I left you a cup of coco on the table, right near your favorite seat.

Thanks man. I prefer a cup of Java actually

Spoiler

I'm a JEE developer so my love for MS business extends boundaries

 

[besada]

If true, this is phenomenally stupid. XBLA is probably MS's biggest real innovative success this generation. It's also making shitloads of money. Quit robbing little indies you bastards.

 

[Haunted]

Fucking Nintendo, always wanting to maximise their profit instead of thinking of the gamers and Indie devel... wait, what?

 

[goldenpp72]

If this is true, microsoft are assholes. Stupid ones to boot considering 3 other platforms exist for this.

 

[Visualante]

What I find funny, is that its MS who is biting the hand that feeds.

And what is the PSN share?

Do we know?

I'm certain it's not as high as 70% but it is better. I'll find out.
Plus you have the freedom that Sony's network offers, Steam is the best platform for this judging the success of Audiosurf which was kind of a manufactured success to showcase Steamworks

 

[tanod]

I read it as "+1 if this turns out to be true". It would be nice of him to pop back in and make a less cryptic remark to clarify.

Jim is part of the press. He's not a developer.

 

[TheKurgan]

The real question is what does Sony and Nintendo charge?

 

[acevans2]

I refuse to believe porting most of these 360 XBLA indie games WOULDN'T be profitable to port to PSN as well.

Unless they're under contract, I think they should go the extra mile to get a jump in available audience.

Even if PSN is 35% cut as well (I reeeeally doubt that), it's still more revenue for the dev.

 

[xaosslug]

What I find funny, is that its MS who is biting the hand that feeds.

And what is the PSN share?

Do we know?

well, it's gotta be upwards of 35%, considering that 2 developers are considering making a move...

 

[Neo C.]

What were they thinking? WiiWare is proving to be quite the indie darling right now and they were betting on their arcade titles to attract the casual audience of the Wii.

I didn't know it. I hear several good things about WiiWare, but why exactly is it the indie darling?

This is why a one console future benefits the industry, right guys?

What does that have to do with anything here?

Check your cynicism-meter. What he wants to say is that the business would even be worse in an one console future where the console consortium could cut the royalties even more.

 

[needlesmcgirk]

Whoever said that 70% royalties is too high and 35% is more realistic is full of shit. The developer spends the time and resources to develop the game. Why should MS get 65% of the profits?

If anything a new game entices people to purchase the console if its good enough. Doesn't make any sense to me.

From what I've read from GDC this week is that Sony is making it even more enticing for indie developers to make games for PSN. Sounds like MS and Sony are going in different directions.

 

[Mojovonio]

I'm certain it's not as high as 70% but it is better. I'll find out.
Plus you have the freedom that Sony's network offers, Steam is the best platform for this judging the success of Audiosurf which was kind of a manufactured success to showcase Steamworks

If they lowered it to the same as PSN, then I don't see what the devlopers are bitching about.

Thanks man. I prefer a cup of Java actually

Spoiler

I'm a JEE developer so my love for MS business extends boundaries

Bias confirmed.

 

[Ranger X]

This news is a big huge "Duh".

Microsoft would push the indy scene one step further without grabbing the profits? lol

 

[harSon]

So Jim's not even a developer...?

 

[PistolGrip]

Wait I thought Kotaku was a shit source...or was that just yesterday?

Their spin is shit but they are usually right when it comes to rumors like this. They broke the Home news last GDC before it was shown for example

 

[Tieno]

You can also bet this is going to make XBLA even more expensive. With developers getting a smaller share, they'll be forced to set a higher price.

 

[wsippel]

I didn't know it. I hear several good things about WiiWare, but why exactly is it the indie darling?

Development is cheap and there are almost no mandates. You need a rating and your game may not exceed 40MB, but that's pretty much it.

 

[Shard]

What I want to see if any of this rigmarole actually has a discernible effect on the future XBLA content.

 

[tanod]

So Jim's not even a developer...?

But he's at GDC talking to developers and said he heard the same thing as Kotaku. People trying to discredit Kotaku out of hand have no merit for their argument.

 

[Visualante]

You can also bet this is going to make XBLA even more expensive. With developers getting a smaller share, they'll be forced to set a higher price.

Who said they had any control over the initial price?

 

[jetpacks was yes]

I didn't know it. I hear several good things about WiiWare, but why exactly is it the indie darling?

WiiWare is attractive to devs because they have more creative freedom and have to jump through fewer hoops to get their games out. It's closer to the PC scene in that sense.

 

[The Faceless Master]

You can also bet this is going to make XBLA even more expensive. With developers getting a smaller share, they'll be forced to set a higher price.

1200 point games for all!!!

 

[CrushDance]

Development is cheap and there are almost no mandates. You need a rating and your game may not exceed 40MB, but that's pretty much it.

Same with PSN. There are no limits.

 

[Tieno]

Who said they had any control over the initial price?

AFAIK it's a 'negotiation' and MS isn't averse to a high price.

 

[harSon]

But he's at GDC talking to developers and said he heard the same thing as Kotaku. People trying to discredit Kotaku out of hand have no merit for their argument.

Something more then 3 words would be nice... Unless he wants the thread to continue on its downward spiral.

 

[Odysseus]

indie devs got microtransactioned

 

[Evander]

Just to clarify, guys, I wasn't saying that I actually THINK that is what's happening.

It was just a thought that occurred to me.



I'm sitting here ready to be outraged, I just want to hear the rest of the story first, so I fdon't end up feeling stupi8d like the time with the GoW DLC not being free.

 

[Dunlop]

Though, I'd say your post is flirting with meltdown status... :lol Anyway, now that GAF's spotlighted this story, we should have some sort of official confirmation sooner or later.

No meltdown, I don't give a shit what the ratio is. If they screw the indie devs, devs leave...pretty simple.

If this is true why don't we wait to see what the outcome is. As usual it has turned into a standard "MS is the devil" thread even before the facts are released.

 

[jetpacks was yes]

Same with PSN. There are no limits.

I'm pretty sure you have to go through a committee to get your game approved like XBLA.

 

[Shard]

Who said they had any control over the initial price?

Yea, Microsoft doesn't control price, the publisher does that. Also, what is killing me is that some people think that some sort of age of Aquarius is going on right now or soon on the PSN when that is just not the case.

 

[Arde5643]

Same with PSN. There are no limits.

So in PSN games don't have to be in HD like XBLA?

That's really smart of Sony then.

 

[Nooreo]

What does this mean?

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Their spin is shit but they are usually right when it comes to rumors like this. They broke the Home news last GDC before it was shown for example

So basically the truth with an agenda attached? That would explain the mixed reactions.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Looks like a lot of the indie development will move to Wii and PS3. And for those defending MS, MS has the right to set whatever prices they want but devs also have the right to develop for whichever platform they want. Obviously they're going to go to the best platform, both in terms of technical and financial aspects.

 

[CrushDance]

So in PSN games don't have to be in HD like XBLA?

That's really smart of Sony then.

I'm talking in comparison to LIVE.

 

[spwolf]

35% still seems very good. And of course if developers have an issue with it, they can go somewhere else.

35% margins for Microsoft might be good, not for developers.

65% margin for retailer is crazy good...

This is not same as publishing traditional games, as Publisher pays developer, pays marketing, pays retailers. In this case, there is no marketing and processing costs for Microsoft are less than 2% per order.