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Microsoft Responds to Optimized Launch Game Performance Issues

NullZ3r0

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Well until they sort their stuff out, I suggest using a slightly modified logo on the games ;p

This is funny, but to be honest, MS bar for "optimized" isn't that high. Its more marketing than actual technical optimization.
 

Kumomeme

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It's not that MS have not focused on making it easy for dev's its just that they have a fair amount of other factors to be mindful of. The switch to the new GDK is so dev's can easily port between PC and Xbox... problem is its new and things take time to get used to and mature so is maybe why Dev's are having issues getting the most out of it. Then there's Direct X so PC devs can write higher level code that can support any 3D graphics card rather than having to write low level code for every 3D card brand(AMD/Nvidia/Intel). Those good things for gamers... but Sony has had a easier path with being able to have a narrow focus on updating their low level PS4 tools to support the new AMD CPU/GPU features.

...PC ports from PS games tend to need allot of work and do not run well.

Given the market and eco systems I think so far both have approached this next gen in a sensible way... will just take time to see how it pans out.
the problem is MS 'kind of late to the party'. If they already planned to release new GDK kit, they should released it earlier. But leak said the devs receive it late compared to Sony who their devs owned PS5 devs kit much sooner. Not to mention this time devs need to support 2 sku at launch with one of it much, much downgrade. MS should be mindful of this matter before hand. Even so-supposed to be easier to develop PS5 still could run into trouble if they release the devs kit late to developers.
 
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Topher70

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I judge his work by how much he is triggering Sony fans. And let me tell you, right now he is doing one hell of a job.

Actually that says more about you than it does about "Sony fans".

I never honestly liked Phil Spencer until the last two years. And that has nothing to do with what he has said, but what he has done. As an Xbox fan, I saw a brand on life support brought back to relevance and grow from almost no internal studios to over 20. Certainly the Series launch has not been the best, but it is so early this gen, and for the first time in a long time, there is a ton of stuff to look forward to.

Should have stuck with that.
 
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This is funny, but to be honest, MS bar for "optimized" isn't that high. Its more marketing than actual technical optimization.
It's probably something along the lines of "the game has a series x binary version with a performance profile (i.e.: resolution and frame rate cap, maybe detail levels)", which is fine by me.

All games that have a decent budget are optimized to some degree, and given how similar the architectures are there may be plenty of optimizations that work across platforms.
And people say Phill Spencer is doing a great job. Fucking up a launch like that is not a great job in my book.
yup, they could just have set realistic expectations and it would have been accepted, but no... They had to claim the crown before the time.
 
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yup, they could just have set realistic expectations and it would have been accepted, but no... They had to claim the crown before the time.

All they had to do was stick with "our most powerful system" and then explain that it's to differentiate from the S.

What really threw them off was bragging about how it's more powerful than the PS5 and not delivering that at launch.
 
Jan 29, 2019
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I never honestly liked Phil Spencer until the last two years. And that has nothing to do with what he has said, but what he has done. As an Xbox fan, I saw a brand on life support brought back to relevance and grow from almost no internal studios to over 20. Certainly the Series launch has not been the best, but it is so early this gen, and for the first time in a long time, there is a ton of stuff to look forward to.
I can understand that... There is potential in 20 studios, but I'm suspicious (I have not had an xbox since like 2005), for some reason I think they will run them to the ground, when they deliver good games on a consistent basis I'll give them credit... but I have a decent PC, so I may never have to buy the console itself.
 

On Demand

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I’m still waiting

You want people to show you spific videos of PS5 playing games. I think it’s best if you buy one and test that yourself. Nobody is going to scour the Internet to prove a point to you. Damn sure not when any video found will just be met with excuses and goal post moving. Kind of like you’re doing now.

Consensus is the PS5 runs quite. You don’t think so is irrelevant.
 

Warablo

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I don't know what people expect of Phil. You can't just snap your fingers and have a game made. It takes time and development. He has acquired more studios and now we wait. His only mistake is 343.
 

Clear

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I don't know what people expect of Phil. You can't just snap your fingers and have a game made. It takes time and development. He has acquired more studios and now we wait. His only mistake is 343.

No, the mistake was marketing Series X on power. If the product can live up to the hype, great. Job done. Until then its a self-inflicted injury, and drawing attention to it is isn't helpful. Especially when it brings to mind how the start of last-gen played out.
 

Stiflers Mom

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It's like they only concentrated on the hardware and forgot anything else that a launch needs to be successful.
Very weird.
15 studios (before the Zenimax deal), and none of them were able to deliver anything for their most important event in years.
Plus those problems with their tools and frameworks.

What a shit show.

(I still think we will see amazing things coming from MS over the next years when they get their shit together, but let's be honest, they really botched the launch)
 
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DarkMage619

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All they had to do was stick with "our most powerful system" and then explain that it's to differentiate from the S.

What really threw them off was bragging about how it's more powerful than the PS5 and not delivering that at launch.
Give me one post from a MS executive or an official Xbox Twitter handle stating the Xbox was more powerful than PS5. I don't see MS mentioning the PS5 at all unless it was congratulating them on a successful launch or something about all games are special. Don't mistake Dealer or Colteastwood for MS.
 

jimbojim

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Give me one post from a MS executive or an official Xbox Twitter handle stating the Xbox was more powerful than PS5. I don't see MS mentioning the PS5 at all unless it was congratulating them on a successful launch or something about all games are special. Don't mistake Dealer or Colteastwood for MS.

Greenberg's tweet is really a pathetic crap. Congrats to Sony, but just remind you that our system is the most powerful. LOL


And Craig was born because of their 'most powerful console ever' touting crap.
 
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supernova8

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Public acknowledgement. Microsoft aren’t fucking around. I remember last generation, Microsoft flew out their own engineers to some of the bigger developers to help get their games up to 1080p on the Xbone. Destiny and Diablo III, if I recall correctly. I wonder if we’ll see that kind of direct intervention.

I'm envisaging this funny situation where the on-site Sony and Microsoft engineers are throwing fries and tomato slices at each other in the communal cafeteria.

"Have fun with Craig, dickwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaads"
"Fuck you, Mark"
 

DarkMage619

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Greenberg's tweet is really a pathetic crap. Congrats to Sony, but just remind you that our system is the most powerful. LOL



Or Phil Spencer during July event :


The PS5 wasn't mentioned but I take your point. Greenburg's job is to promote his product and if you are looking at the raw specs the XSX IS the most powerful. Now it's up to MS to get developers to show it. Remember the PS3 was more powerful than the X360 too of course it came out a year later and the PS5 came out 2 days later.
 

JTCx

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Give me one post from a MS executive or an official Xbox Twitter handle stating the Xbox was more powerful than PS5. I don't see MS mentioning the PS5 at all unless it was congratulating them on a successful launch or something about all games are special. Don't mistake Dealer or Colteastwood for MS.
Dam bruh already having historical revisions?
 

jimbojim

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The PS5 wasn't mentioned but I take your point. Greenburg's job is to promote his product and if you are looking at the raw specs the XSX IS the most powerful. Now it's up to MS to get developers to show it. Remember the PS3 was more powerful than the X360 too of course it came out a year later and the PS5 came out 2 days later.

Of course they won't mentioned it directly, but nevertheless. Remember that PS3 hardware specs were already locked back then and it should have launch alongside X360 , but it was delayed for a year because bluray. But yeah, it was more powerful system ( even before delay too) , but not developer friendly

PS5 came out 2 days later. Yes. So? I don't see your point here
 
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TeezzyD

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It's like they only concentrated on the hardware and forgot anything else that a launch needs to be successful.
Very weird.
15 studios (before the Zenimax deal), and none of them were able to deliver anything for their most important event in years.
Plus those problems with their tools and frameworks.

What a shit show.

(I still think we will see amazing things coming from MS over the next years when they get their shit together, but let's be honest, they really botched the launch)

I agree. It's not like they were dropping games for Xbox One this year either.

Maybe Bleeding Edge should've spent more time in the oven and been made a launch title of some sort, Grounded too

Pretty sure everyone just forgot those existed already
 
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Concern

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I agree. It's not like they were dropping games for Xbox One this year either.

Maybe Bleeding Edge should've spent more time in the oven and been made a launch title of some sort, Grounded too


No.... bleeding edge was just a mistake altogether. No amount of time in noo oven could save that shit. Fuck that game lol
 
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mrmeh

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the problem is MS 'kind of late to the party'. If they already planned to release new GDK kit, they should released it earlier. But leak said the devs receive it late compared to Sony who their devs owned PS5 devs kit much sooner. Not to mention this time devs need to support 2 sku at launch with one of it much, much downgrade. MS should be mindful of this matter before hand. Even so-supposed to be easier to develop PS5 still could run into trouble if they release the devs kit late to developers.

Yeah obviously the earlier the better! but I think both Sony and MS released their dev stuff as soon as they could... again maybe due to Direct X MS had more work to do and were waiting on AMD, maybe Sony didn't have as much to wait on due to their custom stuff.

I also don't know how much impact covid had on both but again given the extra work MS had to do (PC & Xbox X/S) I would suspect it would have impacted them more than Sony due to the simple fact they had more to do.

Now you could say they should have started earlier ...but that may have not been possible. It may seem like I'm making excuses :) but I'm a software dev and fully aware of all the shit that happens!

I do think that over the years they should have done more and focused more on Direct X development, enabling better lower level access to hardware and pushed adoption of the new versions. DX12 has been available for ages but in many cases is slower than DX11 when a game has versions for both.

The thing to remember is that currently the lack of optimisation doesn't matter that much, both consoles are sold out... it may matter in a few months time when both have inventory on store shelves and undecided people are making their choices.

Having said that... I don't think you will see a big performance differential anyway. I expect the X will ultimately perform a little bit better than the ps5 on the majority of titles and I doubt it will be hugely noticeable in multi plats.. everything will use DRS anyway and unless your pixel counting your not going to notice in fast moving action scenes that stress both consoles.

I'm more excited in the AI resolution upscaling tech AMD are making to complete with NVidia's DLSS 2, AMD have allot of work to do to catch up though so I'm tempering my expectations.
 
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Epic Sax CEO

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The PS5 wasn't mentioned but I take your point. Greenburg's job is to promote his product and if you are looking at the raw specs the XSX IS the most powerful. Now it's up to MS to get developers to show it. Remember the PS3 was more powerful than the X360 too of course it came out a year later and the PS5 came out 2 days later.

Don't know about English, but in some languages we have something called an "Ellipse".
Isn't wonderful how humans created complex codes to convey meaning?
 
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I don't know what people expect of Phil. You can't just snap your fingers and have a game made. It takes time and development. He has acquired more studios and now we wait. His only mistake is 343.
We have waited since 2013... It's not like the guy never told us to wait until e3 a million times before.
 
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Shmunter

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Not sure if this was posted. Eurogamer is questioning the matter now...

In all honesty the level of surprise is errr....surprising. Devs and industry connected insiders have long been hinting at the PS5 being the superior hardware and that TF are no indicator of performance.

And Microsoft personnel have long history of selling bridges.

 
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BadBurger

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Wow. Never thought they would publicly acknowledge this.

In a day and age when even high school students have the tools and internet articles available to help them perform comparisons, or simply sit back and have Digital Foundry do it for you, MS has no reason not to be open and let their customers know they're working on a resolution.
 
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Not sure if this was posted. Eurogamer is questioning the matter now...

In all honesty the level of surprise is errr....surprising. Devs and industry connected insiders have long been hinting at the PS5 being the superior hardware and that TF are no indicator of performance.

And Microsoft personnel have long history of selling bridges.


The good news is that they are promising superior multiplats within a year so we shouldn't have to wait long for them.

The suggestion is the situation will be different six months to a year down the line as developers get to grips with the new consoles.
 
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Shmunter

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The good news is that they are promising superior multiplats within a year so we shouldn't have to wait long for them.
Looking forward to the matter playing out. After all, that’s one of the big reasons for all discussions.

But my money is on PS5 pulling ahead further once devs start leveraging next gen engines based on the asset delivery potential and low level access to the geometry pipeline.
 
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Looking forward to the matter playing out. After all, that’s one of the big reasons for all discussions.

But my money is on PS5 pulling ahead further once devs start leveraging next gen engines based on the asset delivery potential and low level access to the geometry pipeline.

I'm not denying that there's a power difference between the two platforms and it could very well be true that the XSX will beat the PS5 in the end. But I don't think there's a big delta between the two because we would have seen the XSXs power advantage at launch despite spotty tools.
 
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aries_71

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We didn't get a word on first party incompetence though. Halo Infinite was planned to be a XSX launch title for years now and we all now how this turned out.
That’s not really true. Halo Infinite was an X1 game well before anybody knew anything about the XSX existence. They just took so much time that the entire X1 generation passed. They may as well keep taking more time and market it like the launch game of the generation that will replace the XSX.
 
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Invalid GR

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That’s not really true. Halo Infinite was an X1 game well before anybody knew anything about the XSX existence. They just took so much time that the entire X1 generation passed. They may as well keep taking more time and market it like the launch game of the generation that will replace the XSX.

Being an X1 game doesn't change the fact that Infinite was THE showcase for XSX. There simply is no excuse for the presentation the game had.
 
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MrFunSocks

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Being an X1 game doesn't change the fact that Infinite was THE showcase for XSX. There simply is no excuse for the presentation the game had.
Infinite wasn't the showcase for Series X. Why do you think it was? People mistakenly think that the "Xbox Games Showcase" event was an "Xbox Series X Games Showcase". It wasn't. Halo Infinite was even listed on their official game pages as going to receive a series X patch that would make it run at higher resolutions with faster loading. It was a Xbox One game.

This is funny, but to be honest, MS bar for "optimized" isn't that high. Its more marketing than actual technical optimization.
People on here seem to have a hard time discerning between marketing/PR and facts.
 
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Infinite wasn't the showcase for Series X. Why do you think it was? People mistakenly think that the "Xbox Games Showcase" event was an "Xbox Series X Games Showcase". It wasn't. Halo Infinite was even listed on their official game pages as going to receive a series X patch that would make it run at higher resolutions with faster loading. It was a Xbox One game.

"Brand new games built natively for the Xbox Series X such as Halo Infinite."



 

QuantumZebra

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Wow. Never thought they would publicly acknowledge this.

That means they must be getting lit up on social media / behind closed doors.

I bet the suits are livid right now.

MS writing all those checks that they can't cash.

That's kind of the issue, I think.

Phil and Co. made such a stink about the XSeX power advantage before a single game had been out in the wild.

It's the same as if a football team/the media talk up how good they are before a single snap has been played. Then they get wrecked when the real play starts.
 
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REDRZA MWS

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That means they must be getting lit up on social media / behind closed doors.

I bet the suits are livid right now.



That's kind of the issue, I think.

Phil and Co. made such a stink about the XSeX power advantage before a single game had been out in the wild.

It's the same as if a football team/the media talk up how good they are before a single snap has been played. Then they get wrecked when the real play starts.

Except hardware is defined and quantifiable. The Xbox Series X is the more powerful console. The fact a few 12 yr old or mentally challenged “stans” still can’t figure out that the MS’s SDK’s were built ground up for series x/s, and will most certainly mature which only bodes well for Xbox, as opposed to Sony’s approach using PS4 SDK’s. So yeah, old, familiar SDK’s are proving very minimal “performance gains” over Series X SHould be normal. Once MS fleshes out their SDK’s, those 2TF’z will be out to use and these Comparisons of launch titles (which the performance “gap” is so minimal it’s comical) will be a thingof the past.
 

DarkMage619

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Of course they won't mentioned it directly, but nevertheless. Remember that PS3 hardware specs were already locked back then and it should have launch alongside X360 , but it was delayed for a year because bluray. But yeah, it was more powerful system ( even before delay too) , but not developer friendly

PS5 came out 2 days later. Yes. So? I don't see your point here
My point is it was never realistic to think that there would be a similar performance gap between the PS5 and the XSX like the X1 and PS4 or the X1X and PS4 Pro. Historically the only system that seemed to have major performance issues was the PS3 relative to the X360. Launch titles are also not indicative of actual system capabilities. MS also never indicated that there would be that sort of performance gap. It's mostly Playstation fans finding some random quote on Twitter and using it like it came from MS directly. It's happened here a ton of times. I just hope the many playstation fans in this thread enjoy actually playing their 'superior' system as much as criticizing the Xbox. Again Concern Concern was right."I don't love my favorite console I just hate yours. "
 

Evil Calvin

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I have a PS4, tried to get a PS5 and will soon. I have a XBSX. But it sounds like both consoles have issues. But PS5 seems to have more.
 

Aguero9320

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I mean, let’s be honest here, however deep down it may be buried for some of you, everyone actually realises the Series X is the more powerful console, right?

The fact that Ubisoft (or Microsoft for that matter lol) haven’t managed to take advantage of it yet doesn’t make it any less true... Unless you ‘believe in generations’ that only last three weeks that is.
 
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Aguero9320

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Problem is that optimisation is not applicable to one platform only.

You can optimise anything.

You talk as if there are only gains to be found on Xbox.

The point here surely is that if 100% optimisation occurs on both consoles Series X has a ‘not to be sniffed at’ lead...

I don’t think it matter all that much though, they are both very powerful and differences will be unrecognisable except in those fucking irritating cock waving analysis videos that seem to do nothing more than fuel the fanboys anyway.
 
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I mean, let’s be honest here, however deep down it may be buried for some of you, everyone actually realises the Series X is the more powerful console, right?

The fact that Ubisoft (or Microsoft for that matter lol) haven’t managed to take advantage of it yet doesn’t make it any less true... Unless you ‘believe in generations’ that only last three weeks that is.

All depends on how usable that power is. There's alot more to it then just teraflops. These early comparison have already proven that.
 
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