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[Moses85]

GP is great for the gamers but doesnt print money for Microsoft.

Absolute bullshit.

 

[Infamy v1]

The point was easy to understand, I’m not sure how you could miss the point.


Well they don’t, so what’s your point?

So your arguments boils down to...money?

So we have the same argument with opposing viewpoints?

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I really don’t think it would be beneficial to Sony in the long term financially. Sure, they would probably sell more PS Plus subscriptions, but they will most likely lose a lot of money. Microsoft put games day one on Gamepass because most of their games weren’t selling well. Sony games sell really well for $60 to $70 so they don’t have to put their games on a subscription service day one.

 

[Banjo64]

So your arguments boils down to...money?

So we have the same argument with opposing viewpoints?

Yes. In the question of sustaining AAA development and supporting a subscription service and being profitable at the same time and not losing ground to MS with their infinite warchest after they’ve spent $80b on 2 publishers, believe it or not it boils down to money.

 

[Amiga]

MS desperately luring Sony into a trap

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yes. In the question of sustaining AAA development and supporting a subscription service and being profitable at the same time and not losing ground to MS with their infinite warchest after they’ve spent $80b on 2 publishers, believe it or not it boils down to money.

Friendship > Money

Right, Phil? Come fight on our terf. I promise we'll play fair

 

[DForce]

If MS wanted to prove a point then they should reveal their subscribers and profit from Game Pass.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The issue with Gamepass that none of you are talking about that MS could face sooner rather later is subscription fatigue. With the economy fixing to go south and inflation getting out of hand, people are going to cutback. All subscription services have lost subscribers. MS still has the advantage of being the only service to offer AAA gaming.

 

[Infamy v1]

If MS wanted to prove a point then they should reveal their subscribers and profit from Game Pass.

But they did reveal a point. This was in response to Sony themselves saying it would take lots of years and money to compete with Game Pass, and Sony is the one who mentioned 70+% Game Pass marketshare.

Take your misplaced anger out on Sony's lawyers.

 

[Infamy v1]

Yes. In the question of sustaining AAA development and supporting a subscription service and being profitable at the same time and not losing ground to MS with their infinite warchest after they’ve spent $80b on 2 publishers, believe it or not it boils down to money.

Of course it does. This is why Sony is heavily investing in GaaS and why they have stated its not profitable to keep making these massive budget single player games.

Edit: solely making*

 

[JohnnyFootball]

If MS wanted to prove a point then they should reveal their subscribers and profit from Game Pass.

This. They always keep these numbers private.

 

[0neAnd0nly]

Reading the OP is hard. Maybe look at my previous post for a translation, if you're actually asking in good faith.

Not sure what I said, and what you responded here ^ has anything to do with each other, but sure - I will bite.

You told me to refer to your prior response, which was criticizing somebody else for saying Microsoft was “dead last”.

So let’s break down the definition of “dead last”.

Dead Last:

Finishing in last place in a competition or ranking, often by a considerable margin to the next-to-last-place finisher or after an exceptionally poor showing or season.

So, by definition - Xbox is currently dead last.

I didn’t use that saying anyway. I said “3rd place”. Which according to the July VGC report, is absolutely 100% factual. I’ll even attach a picture.

And that is using the cheat that XBOX uses of combing both X/S sales (lol).

Fwiw, I am critical of all the consoles currently. Anybody on here who has seen my post knows that. I have worked in the industry, I have had highs with all, and lows with all.

I’m simply saying that Sony needs to STOP listening to third place. There is NO reason to.

Have a great one.

 

[DForce]

But they did reveal a point. This was in response to Sony themselves saying it would take lots of years and money to compete with Game Pass, and Sony is the one who mentioned 70+% Game Pass marketshare.

Take your misplaced anger out on Sony's lawyers.

Microsoft said it would benefit Sony.

The benefit for them would be to make a profit. Microsoft hides profit but reports revenue.

But you just admitted that they would take a lot of money, thus losing a lot of money in the process. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Of course it does. This is why Sony is heavily investing in GaaS and why they have stated its not profitable to keep making these massive budget single player games.

Lol what?

 

[lovetalkgames]

True, i cant believe it only sold 10 million - pretty bad for a niche, ultra gory, dark game. /s

It undersold, pointblank. Many of you are missing the point.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It undersold, pointblank. Many of you are missing the point.

Some games underselling does not mean you put them all up for $15 a month instead

 

[Infamy v1]

Not sure what I said, and what you responded here ^ has anything to do with each other, but sure - I will bite.

I was joking when I said reading is hard but boy oh boy it really is hard for you. That portion of the response wasn't directed to you. Did you even read who I quoted?

Therefore, most of your post is null and void, but I love how you state Xbox is "cheating" by combining S|X sales, as if Sony never combined PS4 and PS4 Pro sales (and likewise with MS). S and X are the same gen. You just can't help yourself

 

[Infamy v1]

Microsoft said it would benefit Sony.

The benefit for them would be to make a profit. Microsoft hides profit but reports revenue.

But you just admitted that they would take a lot of money, thus losing a lot of money in the process. Thanks for proving my point.

Funny, in Sony's entire argument, you know, the thing that regulators see and MS is responding to, they don't talk about how MS hides profit. They make a ton of other points (which MS lawyers shut down, hence all the media and videos). If this was such a real concern, such an easy W, why would Sony lawyers neglect to mention it?

Hmmm....wait, no...can't be...

You're embarrassing yourself. You didn't even know what the OP was in response to until I told you.

 

[0neAnd0nly]

I was joking when I said reading is hard but boy oh boy it really is hard for you. That portion of the response wasn't directed to you. Did you even read who I quoted?

Therefore, most of your post is null and void, but I love how you state Xbox is "cheating" by combining S|X sales, as if Sony never combined PS4 and PS4 Pro sales (and likewise with MS). S and X are the same gen. You just can't help yourself

Hey man, I don’t want to make this personal.

I’m not sure text is translating well here, too easy online to get confrontational.

I think X/S is weird because it’s the outlier on the current console market. If everybody had a step-gen, then fine. There is no secondary console for PS or Nintendo, so it’s a weird marker IMO.

Again, though admittedly I am a bigger Sony/ Nintendo fan, I have had highs with all, and lows with all. I am very critical of Sony recently, for example. Working in the industry and working with all 3 console manufacturers for a while made me a little less tied to one than most people.

My response initially was simply indicating that Sony doesn’t need to take suggestions from MS. PlayStation gamers, in general, are happy with the differences between PS and XBOX.

Sony has done this recently too much, as they have been in a landslide since Layden came in IMO, and Jim hasn’t exactly done a lot to win me over in his term either. They have made a lot of MS kind of moves; going to PC, releasing games on other consoles, trying to compete with Gamepass, paid online, etc.

I don’t want them to. They are fine. Probably the most fine from a purely GAMER perspective.

But I digress.

My simple comment didn’t need to devolve into argument. All good. Have a great weekend.

 

[jm89]

That first post with jimbo laughing gif is perfect, imagine taking advice from a company who still haven't delivered a decent AAA other than haloforzagears and then had to buy them selves out of the game production problems.

 

[Infamy v1]

Hey man, I don’t want to make this personal.

I’m not sure text is translating well here, too easy online to get confrontational.

I think X/S is weird because it’s the outlier on the current console market. If everybody had a step-gen, then fine. There is no secondary console for PS or Nintendo, so it’s a weird marker IMO.

Again, though admittedly I am a bigger Sony/ Nintendo fan, I have had highs with all, and lows with all. I am very critical of Sony recently, for example. Working in the industry and working with all 3 console manufacturers for a while made me a little less tied to one than most people.

My response initially was simply indicating that Sony doesn’t need to take suggestions from MS. PlayStation gamers, in general, are happy with the differences between PS and XBOX.

Sony has done this recently too much, as they have been in a landslide since Layden came in IMO, and Jim hasn’t exactly done a lot to win me over in his term either. They have made a lot of MS kind of moves; going to PC, releasing games on other consoles, trying to compete with Gamepass, paid online, etc.

I don’t want them to. They are fine. Probably the most fine from a purely GAMER perspective.

But I digress.

My simple comment didn’t need to devolve into argument. All good. Have a great weekend.

I might've jumped the gun and maybe you can't see quotations, but that quote was to yazenov, not you. I'm not sure why it's not showing on your end.

But agree to disagree and you too.

 

[DForce]

Funny, in Sony's entire argument, you know, the thing that regulators see and MS is responding to, they don't talk about how MS hides profit. They make a ton of other points (which MS lawyers shut down, hence all the media and videos). If this was such a real concern, such an easy W, why would Sony lawyers neglect to mention it?

Hmmm....wait, no...can't be...

You're embarrassing yourself. You didn't even know what the OP was in response to until I told you.

Jim Ryan already talked about it.
So did Shawn Layden, an ex-employee.

Microsoft hides its profits for a reason.

You tried to bring up mindshare as a counterpoint when it doesn't prove that they're profitable.

You're reaching and it's not working.

 

[Thief1987]

Their first party sales took a massive drop last quarter so clearly their sales arent what they used to be in the PS4 era where every big game was selling 3-5 million in the first few months.

Can you name first party games in the first two years of ps4 lifecycle which sell 3-5 million in the first few months? Or you are just bullshitting like you always do?

 

[Infamy v1]

Lol what?

How did you even get this response out when I ninja edited in like 4 seconds?

Jim Ryan already talked about it.
So did Shawn Layden, an ex-employee.

Microsoft hides its profits for a reason.

You tried to bring up mindshare as a counterpoint when it doesn't prove that they're profitable.

You're reaching and it's not working.

Did you just say I'm reaching when you were asking Microsoft to make a point, in which you get proven that they made their rebuttals/counterarguments very succinctly? Anyone looking back at your original post can see you seemingly had no idea what the OP was about.

You get shown that Sony didn't mention pRoFiTs once when they had the floor to do so, and your response is "yeah, but this one time Jimbo talked about it and so did an ex-employee."

But I'm reaching, though. You can at least put some effort in next time.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I think this would work best for GaaS with microtransactions like GT7. The singleplayer cinematics are just too expensive to make and don't generate revenue other than the purchase price. But maybe Sony gives it a try, because they could really save some serious cash for marketing. They spent crazy numbers on marketing, because they have to sell as many games as possible with their current business plan.

That makes no sense. Those games are better off sold as Free to play. Sony did the math on that years ago.

 

[DForce]

How did you even get this response out when I ninja edited in like 4 seconds?



Did you just say I'm reaching when you were asking Microsoft to make a point, in which you get proven that they made their rebuttals/counterarguments very succinctly? Anyone looking back at your original post can see you seemingly had no idea what the OP was about.

You get shown that Sony didn't mention pRoFiTs once when they had the floor to do so, and your response is "yeah, but this one time Jimbo talked about it and so did an ex-employee."

But I'm reaching, though. You can at least put some effort in next time.

The lawyers offered a rebuttal by saying they don't have any must-have games.

They said Sony would benefit more by adding their games on PS+.

The only benefit that was mentioned was making PS+ more popular.

You're reaching because you're using mindshare to counter what I said, and mindshare doesn't mean you will generate more profit.

You're failing at this, dude lol

 

[phil_t98]

Don't believe anyone when they say that bs lol.

Sony's getting £140 for their FP games from me this year. That drops to £20 the moment day one becomes a thing

I have a hard time believing i'm some anomoly that would choose to pay less instead of more if given the option

don't believe the BS ? Sony has never got 140 out of me in a year, the most they get out of me is for PS+ for the free games, I bought God of war for 9.99 on a sale, same with spiderman and gran truism. I am the sort of person that they would make more money out of by doing that so you can't call it BS because its a fact and you can still buy you games day one and not use the sub service if you choose

 

[rofif]

It will not. Gamepass model is not sustainable and it devalues games and gaming as a whole

 

[SteelCurtain 59]

And that is using the cheat that XBOX uses of combing both X/S sales (lol).

I have yet to hear any even marginally rational argument for why the counts should be separated other than blind Sony fanboyism. They play the exact same games, have all the same features and services, and if power changes what gen it is then we should count the One X and PS4 Pro separately too

 

[phil_t98]

It will not. Gamepass model is not sustainable and it devalues games and gaming as a whole

Does Disney+ devalue movies?

 

[rofif]

Does Disney+ devalue movies?

yes it does absolutely it does!
Look at Netflix too.
Gamepass model does not incentivize releasing huge AAA titles.
Sub services are awful and destroy the media. Not to mention it's all digital... so a big no

 

[01011001]

I have yet to hear any even marginally rational argument for why the counts should be separated other than blind Sony fanboyism. They play the exact same games, have all the same features and services, and if power changes what gen it is then we should count the One X and PS4 Pro separately too

there is no rational argument for it, so you will never hear one.
it's pure fanboy bullshit. same with the people that find it "unfair" that Switch and Switch Lite sales are combined

 

[phil_t98]

Not sure what I said, and what you responded here ^ has anything to do with each other, but sure - I will bite.

You told me to refer to your prior response, which was criticizing somebody else for saying Microsoft was “dead last”.

So let’s break down the definition of “dead last”.

Dead Last:

Finishing in last place in a competition or ranking, often by a considerable margin to the next-to-last-place finisher or after an exceptionally poor showing or season.

So, by definition - Xbox is currently dead last.

I didn’t use that saying anyway. I said “3rd place”. Which according to the July VGC report, is absolutely 100% factual. I’ll even attach a picture.

And that is using the cheat that XBOX uses of combing both X/S sales (lol).

Fwiw, I am critical of all the consoles currently. Anybody on here who has seen my post knows that. I have worked in the industry, I have had highs with all, and lows with all.

I’m simply saying that Sony needs to STOP listening to third place. There is NO reason to.

Have a great one.

the cheat? they are both new consoles this gen. also last gen it was 2-1 in sales favour of PS but not so much now and that's with both being supply restricted

 

[SteelCurtain 59]

Don't believe anyone when they say that bs lol.

Sony's getting £140 for their FP games from me this year. That drops to £20 the moment day one becomes a thing

I have a hard time believing i'm some anomoly that would choose to pay less instead of more if given the option

And how many people would subscribe to PS+ to try out those games but wouldn't pay anywhere near $70 for them? And then how many would get hooked on the other parts of the service and continue subscribing to the service? Also how many people would finish one of those games in exactly 1 month? More people paying less money is often times greater than less people paying more money

 

[01011001]

Gamepass model does not incentivize releasing huge AAA titles

counter argument... huge AAA titles usually suck ass...

AA master race

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

don't believe the BS ? Sony has never got 140 out of me in a year, the most they get out of me is for PS+ for the free games, I bought God of war for 9.99 on a sale, same with spiderman and gran truism.

Contrats. You're a dime of the dozen who actually wait until they reach 9.99.

I am the sort of person that they would make more money out of by doing that so you can't call it BS because its a fact

You're the sort of person who barely makes them any money in the first place. You're pretty much irrelevent

and you can still buy you games day one and not use the sub service if you choose

what a joke

 

[phil_t98]

yes it does absolutely it does!
Look at Netflix too.
Gamepass model does not incentivize releasing huge AAA titles.
Sub services are awful and destroy the media. Not to mention it's all digital... so a big no

and yet they release Halo which is a massively expensive game, Fora is coming, Starfield is coming, Forza horizon was released Flight sim was released. more coming to

Disney still releases huge AAA films and Netflix ploughs money into big budget films and Tv series, look at the cost per episode of stranger things

 

[rofif]

counter argument... huge AAA titles usually suck ass...

AA master race

AAA games do not suck ass. gaas games suck ass.
AA is dead mostly.
Indie can still be great

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

And how many people would subscribe to PS+ to try out those games but wouldn't pay anywhere near $70 for them? And then how many would get hooked on the other parts of the service and continue subscribing to the service? Also how many people would finish one of those games in exactly 1 month? More people paying less money is often times greater than less people paying more money

Probably not enough to justify the loss of day one sales

 

[rofif]

and yet they release Halo which is a massively expensive game, Fora is coming, Starfield is coming, Forza horizon was released Flight sim was released. more coming to

Disney still releases huge AAA films and Netflix ploughs money into big budget films and Tv series, look at the cost per episode of stranger things

Halo is bad
Forza is ... I don't like it personally and I think it's just boring but it is quality... at least something
Starfield was about to come out everywhere. It's not a gamepass created game.
I really do not care for disney. They are outlier movies service because they are like microsoft. They can eat the costs because of marvel and star wars.

 

[01011001]

AAA games do not suck ass. gaas games suck ass.

GaaS games will become the way most publishers will push towards, eventually I could totally see that something like GamePass will be the only safe haven for anything that isn't a free 2 play game. that might be far in the future but let's be honest, why would anyone try to sell a AAA game when GaaS games make 10x the money?

AA is dead mostly.

THQ Nordic and the Embracer Group it belongs to are slowly reviving it

Indie can still be great

Indie devs love gamepass

 

[rofif]

GaaS games will become the way most publishers will push towards, eventually I could totally see that something like GamePass will be the only safe haven for anything that isn't a free 2 play game. that might be far in the future but let's be honest, why would anyone try to sell a AAA game when GaaS games make 10x the money?



THQ Nordic and the Embracer Group it belongs to are slowly reviving it



Indie devs love gamepass

I hate that you are right... all big companies are all about minmaxing now. Only money matters. But not any money. All the money

 

[phil_t98]

Contrats. You're a dime of the dozen who actually wait until they reach 9.99.



You're the sort of person who barely makes them any money in the first place. You're pretty much irrelevent



what a joke

the point is with the sub service they make more money out of me than they currently would releasing day to buy and not on sub service

Halo is bad
Forza is ... I don't like it personally and I think it's just boring but it is quality... at least something
Starfield was about to come out everywhere. It's not a gamepass created game.
I really do not care for disney. They are outlier movies service because they are like microsoft. They can eat the costs because of marvel and star wars.

I like halo personally, but that’s difference in taste. It isn’t nearly as bad a game as people make out

I didn’t like god of war yes I own it but I didn’t gel with it, great looking game but not for me

Spider-Man was awesome

Forza boring to you so same as Gran turismo then?

It’s all down to personal taste. Whil a sun service may not be for you and you can carry on buying your games for others who don’t have as much money to do that they can sub to the service. Each to their own and Sony thinks there is money in it now they converted PS+ to what it is now

 

[Infamy v1]

The lawyers offered a rebuttal by saying they don't have any must-have games.

What...are you talking about? That wasn't a rebuttal, that was the original response to authorities to which Microsoft refuted. Microsoft refutes that Sony contradicted themselves by saying that Game Pass is the undisputed leader in marketshare and how it would take lots of years and money to rival it (and that they did it without having many AAA games), yet claimed that if they acquired Call of Duty, it would significantly propel Game Pass versus the competition. Microsoft almost literally stated that since Sony themselves stated Game Pass grew to be so successful without CoD (or any ABK games/many AAA games for that matter), then how will the acquisition change the status quo?

I'm summarizing and MS lawyers argue it way better, but they used a lot of Sony's quotes against them.

And again, what? Why are you going back in time and making revisionist history to try and desperately make a point?

They said Sony would benefit more by adding their games on PS+.

The only benefit that was mentioned was making PS+ more popular.

Microsoft refuted that Sony saying Game Pass is some massive service that's hard to rival could be partially remedied by Sony offering likewise features in their competing subscription service. It was a cheeky response to Sony because a ton of Sony's original points were filled with disingenuous holes, and you're mad because some rich lawyer had a little fun?

You're reaching because you're using mindshare to counter what I said, and mindshare doesn't mean you will generate more profit.

You're failing at this, dude lol

What are you even talking about, lmao. I'm using literal quotes or summaries from the documents, unlike you bringing up random shit unrelated to these Brazilian court documents.

But sure, keep repeating I'm "failing" or "reaching" because you don't know how to gracefully take an L.

 

[Edgelord79]

Microsoft also says in those documents MS couldn't sell games like Sony and Nintendo and that's the ONLY reason why gamepass even exists. They should just be quiet Lmao

Silly statement. They can’t “be quiet” about things already in documents.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

the point is with the sub service they make more money out of me than they currently would releasing day to buy and not on sub service

They'll make a bit more money out of you and lose a shit ton of money from me.

 

[rofif]

the point is with the sub service they make more money out of me than they currently would releasing day to buy and not on sub service


I like halo personally, but that’s difference in taste. It isn’t nearly as bad a game as people make out

I didn’t like god of war yes I own it but I didn’t gel with it, great looking game but not for me

Spider-Man was awesome

Forza boring to you so same as Gran turismo then?

It’s all down to personal taste. Whil a sun service may not be for you and you can carry on buying your games for others who don’t have as much money to do that they can sub to the service. Each to their own and Sony thinks there is money in it now they converted PS+ to what it is now

I don't play gran turismo either but Forza I try each one for 3-4 hours and I always bounce off it.
Halo Infinite I did finished on pc gamepass and it was terrible... 3 bad open world levels and then tons of corridors and same monke bosses.
The beginning and intro was epic though. it is an ok game but idk...

 

[legacy24]

putting big triple A titles day one a sub service is a dumb idea. sub services are great for a catalog of older titles. MS has to put in agressive mtx in their games (gears 5, halo) to make up for the lack of sales they would have had in the traditional business model

 

[phil_t98]

I don't play gran turismo either but Forza I try each one for 3-4 hours and I always bounce off it.
Halo Infinite I did finished on pc gamepass and it was terrible... 3 bad open world levels and then tons of corridors and same monke bosses.
The beginning and intro was epic though. it is an ok game but idk...

I have gone back to halo many times, it plays like the other halo's I liked and the story was fine. could it of been better? possibly but I enjoyed it and it was no way as bad as a lot made out.
it will be interesting to see how the game evolves. the question is was it bad in your opinion because it was on gamepass? high doubt that it was because of that. huge budget even though out was launching on gamepass

 

[rofif]

I have gone back to halo many times, it plays like the other halo's I liked and the story was fine. could it of been better? possibly but I enjoyed it and it was no way as bad as a lot made out.
it will be interesting to see how the game evolves. the question is was it bad in your opinion because it was on gamepass? high doubt that it was because of that. huge budget even though out was launching on gamepass

I don't think gp influenced how I liked Infinite. The poor pc experience did a bit. I had few crashes, bad performance (3080). Maybe it would playu better on series X.
I just disliked the corridors and corridors. I liked the first half of the game quite ok.
For example, right after that I finished The forgotten city.. A gamepas indie game and loved it