semiconscious
Member
i'm trying to conceive of a handheld with kinect, but I keep passing out. suggestions?...
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Microsoft sending people surveys about handheld consoles
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Its something they have looked into and not sure how hard they have pushed for 25 though
Even Kepler was on board with this at one point though not sure where he stands now
djjinx2
Member
This only works with a cheap version on the market, mobile gaming generation doesnt want to spend big buck's .
Cheap Handheld with HDMI.
Then maybe a dock with GPU built in.
But then if there was an expensive console too it gets very confusing.
MS have never been any good with clear marketing.
Cheap ARM handheld and midrange PC with new XBOX UI released and MS opening up to third party hardware makers would be a good way to go IMO.
Ensure the Xbox store is front and centre as a requirement too.
Cheap Handheld with HDMI.
Then maybe a dock with GPU built in.
But then if there was an expensive console too it gets very confusing.
MS have never been any good with clear marketing.
Cheap ARM handheld and midrange PC with new XBOX UI released and MS opening up to third party hardware makers would be a good way to go IMO.
Ensure the Xbox store is front and centre as a requirement too.
DJ12
Member
I just put windows back on my legion go, (needless to say I'm already back on linux) the experience it's far worse than on linux/Steam Deck clone os and I'm not a Windows hater at all.
If they insist on making it Windows they may as well not bother. Outside of hardcore xbox fanboys it'll be DoA.
I don't trust Microsoft to make a light weight OS for a touch device. It's not like they haven't tried before.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Microsoft: "We can't compete with PlayStation anymore. What should we do?"
Also Microsoft: "Let's compete with Steam, Nintendo, and mobile."
Also Microsoft: "Let's compete with Steam, Nintendo, and mobile."
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CuteFaceJay
Member
They do know we already got Steam deck right?
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Microsoft: "We can't compete with PlayStation anymore. What should we do?"
Also Microsoft: "Let's compete with Steam, Nintendo, and mobile."
Or,
We are having issues generating enough sales on traditional consoles.
Is there some other market we could expand xbox into at the same time to increase our footprint/potential customers?
"Let's offer a product that breaks into a market xbox currently is not in, portable consoles and mobile.
Concurrently, let's take some of older games and bring them to competitor platforms to increase sales, visibility of xbox studios, and exposure to our ip's."
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
No, it doesn't make sense because:
1. Xbox can't expand into a market just because they aren't in there. The handheld market is even more cornered than under-the-shelf traditional consoles.
2. And Xbox has no USP they can offer that hasn't already been offered in this market.
3. Most importantly, no multiplatform publisher has dedicated hardware because it literally contradicts itself (e.g., EA, Ubisoft, T2, etc.). It's stupid to become a multiplatform publisher and then introduce a new hardware, hoping to shake up a pretty cornered and settled market.
The reality is that this is just another stupid decision by Xbox in a long line of stupid decisions: Xbox One launch, hiring Phil Spencer as head of Xbox, Game Pass, Series S, day one PC releases, launching Gen 9 with no exclusives, no next-gen exclusives for 2 years, etc.
I can guarantee that this will be another failure. And then a few years later, people will be wondering what went wrong.
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Unknown Soldier
Member
LOL they got tired of being spanked by Sony so they are switching to getting spanked by Nintendo instead?
Phil truly is a galactic level genius
Phil truly is a galactic level genius
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
That is a pretty obvious possibility - if however Microsoft can work out the details and sell tomorrow's console today and reduce the price once Sony's version hits the shelves, effectively what you get is the chance to jump in *now* or buy at the same price, only with 2 years of titles that (presumably) are already optimised for the higher spec.
If they could work out how to do that, I could see it working.
Of course the current gen hasn't seen any price cuts, so presumably hardware prices drop less with time than they used to so that could prove very difficult.
midnightAI
Member
I am wondering if MS may go a completely different direction in terms of how to get that power, especially if they are not too concerned about price. Maybe a switch to NVidia as that is perceived to have the better quality raytracing and we know that DLSS is very good (at price vs power though that gap shrinks a bit and AMD are working hard at improving their RT and with Sony looking at AI solutions to get extra power that gap may close rather quickly) and a switch to Intel for the CPU, sure its more PC like but that wont worry Xbox if they want to play the power game, if they do then its more likely not a hybrid route though and more likely a home console and handheld.
Also, once MS has shown its hand Sony has time to announce their system whenever they like, we are saying MS would have 2 years to themselves but Sony 'could' announce their next gen system 6-12 months after Xbox launches stifling any excitement people had for the Xbox potentially killing sales stone dead depending on what Sony announces of course. And this is if the next XBox is massively more powerful than the PS5 Pro and how would third parties react to that anyway as target platform would likely be the more popular one not the more powerful one (even though its much easier to scale back than add features).
(to be clear, I think they will stick with AMD as they have a good working relationship currently and its the safer option, but needs must, a switch in strategy is needed)
crackajack
Member
A handheld with Series S level of power I can get more excited about that with a Pro console.
Windows did not really master their tablet design ideas with Win8 , but if they actually figure things out it could be nice and improve other handhelds as well. MS's current goal is seemingly anyway not to win anything now but be on as many device as possible. So if they sell their own handheld or have GP on some Lenovo, MSI whatever device or be on Steamdecks themselves is secondary to them. Be on PS, be on your Smart TV, be on Windows, be on Win-handhelds... MS seems to want to be THE third party right now and if they go exclusive again later on, when you are hooked, is another question for later and core of Sony's concern at the ABK acquisition that afterwards they might have a tight grip on the market and can "forcefully" reel in many customers and Sony (and Nintendo; their success is mostly based on their own titles but certainly also on everyone wanting to join their success) losing many in the same step.
Windows did not really master their tablet design ideas with Win8 , but if they actually figure things out it could be nice and improve other handhelds as well. MS's current goal is seemingly anyway not to win anything now but be on as many device as possible. So if they sell their own handheld or have GP on some Lenovo, MSI whatever device or be on Steamdecks themselves is secondary to them. Be on PS, be on your Smart TV, be on Windows, be on Win-handhelds... MS seems to want to be THE third party right now and if they go exclusive again later on, when you are hooked, is another question for later and core of Sony's concern at the ABK acquisition that afterwards they might have a tight grip on the market and can "forcefully" reel in many customers and Sony (and Nintendo; their success is mostly based on their own titles but certainly also on everyone wanting to join their success) losing many in the same step.
Physiognomonics
Member
So they have not even started designing this as they don't know what to do.
Forget Nintendo (only in their wildest dreams). They are going to get spanked by Gabe!
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I also think that the hybrid route doesn't make sense.
For Sony, I'm not sure how people buying PS5 pro will feel if its successor is announced so quickly after release and I'm not sure how long they need PS5 pro on the market to sell enough hardware to make it worth doing. My guess is that they're unlikely to change whatever plans they have in place for their next console based on what Microsoft are doing.
As for third parties, Microsoft are in a fairly good position here [edit: because post acquisition they can provide a lot of games themselves] assuming the games start rolling off the production line in a regular (and complete) fashion then they can to some degree offer both exclusives and the best versions of some 3rd party games (COD, obviously), so they could showcase some stuff that should wow people.
No idea about how chipsets, etc. could be changed, but I imagine that they will want to keep their backward compatibility ongoing, and presume that changing to another manufacturer could be problematic.
It's certainly interesting to see. I think, much as with Nintendo exiting the arms race that Microsoft getting onto a different release schedule is good news - more variety and more interesting possibilities, hopefully.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
It won't be the Windows UI. It'll be something similar to the Xbox UI.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
That ship has sailed bro, Xbox home consoles are on their way out. Just use your pc instead
An Xbox (or rather, windows) handheld would be so much more interesting
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Doesn't have to be.
djjinx2
Member
Series X is the best console I have ever had, great design, quiet, fast SSD (I include PS5 as I don't like the UI)
MS messed up having no first party games, not advertising what they do have well enough either. Game Pass is great for us owners but seems like the wrong way to go considering sales are rubbish.
Most people buy FIFA and CoD only (UK) so why pay for Gamepass, just buy a PS5 and enjoy the odd blockbuster exclusive
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Maybe the price. Considering how many resources they have, they could just subsidize the console and bring the price to 250-300 with better specs than any gaming handheld on the market. Like I suggested a while ago
Topher
Gold Member
The success/failure of these rumored devices are going to have different criteria has have been defined by consoles in the past. If Xbox is a PC and a handheld, but sold for profit then certainly the number sold is going to decrease as the prices will be higher. So Xbox has moved out of the subsidized hardware model entirely at that point. How do we gauge success? And who is their direct competition? For handheld, obviously Asus, Lenovo and Valve. Switch is in a space all their own, imo. For Xbox PC, Dell and HP, I guess?
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Sure but also why not. Microsoft making their own handheld would bring a lot of attention to the scene. Plus if they get the surface team on board they can make it ultra thin, which would be a first for PC handhelds
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I personally think these rumored machines is exactly what MS needs to attempt as I feel they could carve out a spot
Someone like myself I didn't plan on buying the nextbox because I will always have a PC but things floating around out there about these machines really has my interest
Plus someone like my son who is only a pure Xbox fan would gladly drop $1000 on an Xbox PC type of machine
Topher
Gold Member
I don't necessarily agree. The mainstream handheld market is relatively new. Valve, Asus and Lenovo are really the only competition here. Nintendo is its own thing with an entirely different offering of games than the other handhelds. MSI is already dead in the water. Compared to the gaming PC and laptop market, this isn't really crowded at all. But let's be clear, since these devices are sold at profit then they don't need to sell 10s of millions like subsidized consoles. Regardless, if we are talking about PC handhelds then there is no need for exclusives.
I think plenty of PC gamers would be interested in such a device. I wish I could install Windows on my XSX right now. Many here have said something similar. So essentially we are talking about a $1000 system with a smaller footprint than an ITX PC with an 3070/4060 APU. That's an APU that isn't availabe anywhere but with consoles, now suddenly in a PC. Throw in the possibility of playing Xbox games, including backward compatibility. Hell, sell a $100 bluray add-on while your at it. Put an Xbox UI on top of a Windows back end and you've got something will work in living room or on a desk.
Is it ever going to outsell PlayStation? Oh hell no. It won't even outsell Xbox Series. But again, sold at profit. More than they money made on it, it allows Microsoft to keep a foot in the gaming hardware market which they obviously believe is very important.
I don't know man. I feel like I'm checking a lot of boxes as to why this thing makes sense.
So......it'll never happen, amirite?
GymWolf
Member
I don't even have an xbox, but their home console games end on pc where i can play them so it's the same thing.
I don't care about portables, i care about fable, stalker 2 etc. Being bangers, they still have a huge salvo of ammo to shot from their 394694859693758385 first parties studios.
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midnightAI
Member
Microsoft arent going to subsidise XBox forever
StereoVsn
Member
I have a feeling MS will also license out the OS or OS addons to other VARs. That to me would be even more interesting.I don't necessarily agree. The mainstream handheld market is relatively new. Valve, Asus and Lenovo are really the only competition here. Nintendo is its own thing with an entirely different offering of games than the other handhelds. MSI is already dead in the water. Compared to the gaming PC and laptop market, this isn't really crowded at all. But let's be clear, since these devices are sold at profit then they don't need to sell 10s of millions like subsidized consoles. Regardless, if we are talking about PC handhelds then there is no need for exclusives.
I think plenty of PC gamers would be interested in such a device. I wish I could install Windows on my XSX right now. Many here have said something similar. So essentially we are talking about a $1000 system with a smaller footprint than an ITX PC with an 3070/4060 APU. That's an APU that isn't availabe anywhere but with consoles, now suddenly in a PC. Throw in the possibility of playing Xbox games, including backward compatibility. Hell, sell a $100 bluray add-on while your at it. Put an Xbox UI on top of a Windows back end and you've got something will work in living room or on a desk.
Is it ever going to outsell PlayStation? Oh hell no. It won't even outsell Xbox Series. But again, sold at profit. More than they money made on it, it allows Microsoft to keep a foot in the gaming hardware market which they obviously believe is very important.
I don't know man. I feel like I'm checking a lot of boxes as to why this thing makes sense.
So......it'll never happen, amirite?
I don’t trust MS Surface division as they have been subpar for years.
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Topher
Gold Member
Surface team prices their stuff like they are Apple, but they just ain't. Going to have cut out the hubris if they want to compete in gaming hardware, that much is certain.
Bernoulli
M2 slut
xbox handheld would be received better than a surface handheld even with the same specs and price
Hudo
Member
I still it's one of the best jokes of all time to sell a computer with just 8GB of RAM for >$1000. Apple do have some humor, after all.
djjinx2
Member
But Microsoft sell Windows, which itself runs Games.
Microsoft are also the biggest Third Party Publisher in the world even if they keep some games exclusive to Xbox/PC.
Linux / SteamOS are threats to Windows so it all goes hand in hand
StereoVsn
Member
I almost have a feeling they don’t know what they are doing anymore. Hardware is overpriced, under spec and not well supported. I am taking for Enterprise use here.
We used to buy some Surfaces for execs and sales folks for a few years, but MS just couldn’t deliver.
So we are back to Dell/HP, which might be more boring but they can be configured in a million ways and we can have a tech out next day if there is an issue.
And that’s Enterprise, consumer level support is always worse.
Kind of doubt it. If MS comes in high priced on the handheld it would be DOA. It has to be price competitive, IMO.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Profit per unit sold will definitely be a much better deal than the current system, where they lose up to $200 per console unit sold.
But the other side of that coin is whether they will be able to increase their profitability by forcing their closed ecosystem. A Windows-based handheld device could theoretically download games from Steam and Epic, eliminating Xbox's software revenue cut. So there's that.
Xbox PC will also compete with all non-brand / custom gaming PCs as well.
Their overall offering will compete with the total options available on the gaming market. People have limited income, and if an average consumer buys a Nintendo Switch, they may be less likely to also buy a Steam Deck. And if an average consumer has a Steam Deck and/or Nintendo, they are less likely to buy an Xbox Handheld.
Selling 5-6 million units -- even at a profit -- will be considered a failure for a big brand like this. After all, the other option was to continue improving their traditional console offering and maybe sell north of 50-60 consoles (which also has paid online play and a closed store with 3rd party software and MTX royalties).
Topher
Gold Member
Overall, yeah. Prebuilt desktop and laptop gaming PCs are estimated to have sales in the 50 milion range in 2025 according to Statista. So we have companies like HP, Lenovo, Dell and Asus competing in that space. That's not too different from competition Surface faces. Surface doesn't even get 3% market share. I'd expect Microsoft would want Xbox PC to do much better than that and will price accordingly. So assuming Xbox can achieve 5-10% market share, that translates to 2.5 to 5 million sold in a year. Meet in the middle, 7.5% market share which is 18.75 million sold in five years.
At that point, I guess it depends on the margins as to whether Microsoft sees this as worth the investment. Just don't think we can look at the numbers with a console lens either way.
Gaming PC shipments worldwide by category 2025 | Statista
In 2021, global shipments of gaming notebooks are forecast to reach 27.9 million units, with shipments expected to grow to 33.7 million units by 2025.
www.statista.com
LordOfChaos
Member
I could see this being their saving grace in not directly competing with the PlayStation. Then Nintendo is more direct, but still a bit different as they just do Nintendo things.
midnightAI
Member
I'm not sure what you point is? I'm talking about the constant funding of XBox from Microsoft with no return. This is why we are seeing XBox games on Playstation and Switch because its about time Xbox started making money for MS so why would MS heavily subsidise a handheld console? (they'll subsidise it but I doubt it will be as much as getting 'the best specs of any handheld' down to $250-$300 as suggested, they'd lose $100's of millions in fact the issue with subsidising is the more you sell the more you lose and with Gamepass you aren't making that money back off that purchase)
For software MS can now make loads of money through their other publishing arms which are separate to XBox (ActiBlizz, ZeniMax etc) are they expected to cover the cost of Xbox going forward?
hinch7
Member
Kind of baffling that they own a monopoly on PC in the consumer space with Windows and still chase the console market where there isn't much to gain. And waved the white flag to Valve and Steam for this long all while trying to compete with Sony for the top spot in peoples living rooms.
They should've done this long ago and even this generation to separate itself from the pack and offer a proper working console and a fully working PC in one.
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Topher
Gold Member
I would love to see a true Linux vs Windows battle in the handheld space.
djjinx2
Member
70% from software sales on PS5 Vs 100% on Xbox or MS Store.
That 30% will go a way to cover Hardware losses for starters, Xbox although faltering for years still has a good brand presence in many countries, Cloud gaming through the XBox brand will grow too
djjinx2
Member
There's people in this very thread that can seem Anti Xbox who are interested in the thought of this, that alone means alot
MS needs a way to gain mind share back and have some good hardware news. This will be it if they get the specs and price right
midnightAI
Member
I just dont see MS covering that amount of subsidisation (again), for the $250-$300 cost suggested + best specs of any handheld you are talking a loss of $200 minimum per console sold (probably over $300 if you want to out spec whats currently on the market so that would be minimum 50% subsidisation), then each user will probably have gamepass so they just dont make money back there. This is the issue they have currently, they want gamepass to do well on XBox but they make practically no money from it, so they have to sell on rival platforms to make money which then gives people less reason to buy their hardware and the cycle continues.
I'm not saying the next console wont be subsidised, it probably will but not by too much so they can start breaking even asap as hardware gets cheaper, Series consoles are still losing them money afaik, its one regret they will have, they are losing money and didnt even get close to Playstation. The difference between the two is Sony subsidises their console in such a manner as it starts to break even within 3 years, but they can afford that subsidisation because they sell their games on that platform, I think it was estimated, if I remember correctly, that each user at launch, once they buy 3 games at full price the console subsidisation is then paid for and that comes down as the generation goes on.
Of course, I could be wrong and they could go all out and subsidise it as suggested, but that really would be the last roll of the dice and if that doesnt work this time then you may as well dig the XBox grave (in my opinion).
I think it will be $400-$500
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midnightAI
Member
Nintendo would still win
