Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
That has nothing to do with Friedersdorf's point. Offer still stands. Lets make cultural majority lineups. I think ill bat Wal-Mart third and have Pres. Obama cleanup. The Kochs would be leadoff maybe.
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Mike Pence (Indiana Governor) signs Religous Freedom Bill into Law
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That has nothing to do with Friedersdorf's point. Offer still stands. Lets make cultural majority lineups. I think ill bat Wal-Mart third and have Pres. Obama cleanup. The Kochs would be leadoff maybe.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Being an advocate for your client in the adversarial system has nothing to do with drafting legislation. Thats what comes after its drafted and it collides with the complexity of human community life. I think the legislation should direct a balancing test, each party make its case through advocacy, and an impartial judge/jury decide. It's not perfect, but ill take it over the alternatives.
Are you intentionally not getting it?
Is not fucking true, not by a long shot. They may not have as much legal or financial influence, but powerless? Not even a fucking bit.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
You don't need to make a list to compare. You just need to not be oblivious to reality. If you need proof that what you're saying is wrong, look no further then that pizza place that was getting lambasted on the Internet for their comments, and then look at the $20k+ people have raised for that pizza place in about a day.
The only thing making lists up would do is waste everyone's time on something that should be obvious to you in the first place.
List wars! Gay edition. As the rulings over the last year and a half have shown again and again, gays as a group meet the definition of being a traditionally politically powerless group.
CornBurrito
Member
I am a lawyer and I cannot go a single second of the day without playing the part.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
People who anonymously donate small amounts of money to a mom and pop pizza place in Nowhere, Indiana caught in a liberal moral panic and media shitstorm are comparable to the cultural and institutional forces lined up behind same sex marriage? That would be a clever argument. Since I "don't get it" maybe you can convince me.
Bring Your Gays to the Ballpark Day clearly shows all the progress and power from the LGBTPAC's.
Not sure if you guys are even talking about the bill in here anymore, but Bosma says a "fix" is essentially ready to be signed. Press conference right now.
Also the reaction from business owners in my county on the border has been pretty much disgust at the thought of turning people away (no one actually asks about the bill, just about potential discrimination) so that was nice to see. In SE Indiana, with all the Kentucky and Ohio influence...you just never know.
As long as people use Mustard they will be welcome at my ballpark.
We will lock and jail the ketchup users.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
It quite clearly shows that there are people willing to support these businesses enough to where they can keep their doors open while adhering to their bigoted viewpoints and policies. It shows that the people with these viewpoints are not powerless in the least and are often supported by large swaths of the population. Which is exactly what you asked for.
Keep your fucking bourgeois condiment, ketchup is the condiment of the people. When the class war comes, mustard snobs will be the first against the wall.
Dude Abides
Banned
So essentially the legislature should just punt and make judges decide between competing policy claims - i.e. make judges do a politician's job.
On another note, I wonder how this powerless cultural minority keeps managing to get these bills enacted. I wish i was that powerless.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
So you would agree because large swaths of people donate money to get Elizabeth Warren elected to the Senate to support her views, she has comparable "support" as the array of business and financial interests arrayed against her? Goldman, the big banks, the Kochs, Wal-Mart, Big Pharma, etc.? What's the difference?
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I wasn't trying to make them comparable. You claimed one side to be powerless against the other. Which is fucking delusional considering the side that you're saying is powerless are the ones that are passing laws to support their ideals.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
If you know of a better way to decide which aide of the debate has more influential and powerful interests behind it, lets hear it.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Whatever side is getting the laws passed. If the other side opposing it was more influential and powerful, the laws would never be passed in the first place.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Conor Friedesdorf said it. If you want to escape on a technicality about the dictionary meaning of the word "powerless" thats fine. If you actually want to debate what he was describing, lets do it. Did you read his piece?
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Yeah, and it's proven wrong merely by the fact that the Government is still passing laws that can discriminate against these people. It doesn't matter what big corporations and well known people you have behind you, if you can still get the law passed even with their disapproval, you're obviously the side with more power.
Indiana will pass a law today that will be signed next week that will include the same protections as the other states with similar laws. Powerless!
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
37 states have legal same sex marriage. Eight more have overturned bans and the issue is currently on appeal. The Supreme Court is widely expected to legalize same sex marriage on a federal level in a few months. In fact, I would bet on that happening too if there are any takers. Anyone?
By your own measure, the side 'getting the laws' passed is that favoring same-sex marriage.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Just because everyone you're talking about is part of the same Government doesn't mean that they're on the same side. The fact that you think that just speaks to my point that you have no idea what you're talking about. The people who are passing these laws are not on the same side as the people who have fought to have gay marriage legalized. They aren't on the same side of the argument just because they both have the ability to get laws passed. The fact that ANY of these states can get away with passing a law like that still shows that they're in more power then the people they're discriminating against and that those individuals influence are at least on the same level of power as the people who can legalize same sex marriage. If they weren't then other people in the Government who don't like the law would have come in and squashed it by now.
Perfect Blue
Banned
Strangest thing to me there is that people eat pizzas at weddings lol.
Escape Goat
Member
pizzas being catered to a gay wedding. lol. Thats worse than bringing ice cream as a gift to a gay person's house.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Why can't these people not give a fuck about who's fucking who and just worry about their damn money. It annoys the hell out if me when these religious freaks are like:
"Oh no, we aren't discriminating, it's against our religion to serve gays or whomever we can make an excuse to not serve because of our religion"
But can talk to a paper and be SINFUL of the same ideals that they are against. God never said to have or discriminate or even judge other people. Didn't he say to love and care for all. What religion specifically says you can't serve gays? Asses
TumblingHippo
Member
Cafe next to my work had conservative radio on this morning (as they always tend to do). Was talking about local businesses worried that teachers and gays were going to go around and burn their pizza place down or harass them for embracing the new law.
Also brought up the argument of "Well gay people, you don't want to be forced to cater Christian weddings, do you?"
Also brought up the argument of "Well gay people, you don't want to be forced to cater Christian weddings, do you?"
Pilgrimzero
Member
A Gofundme was set up for them, last time I checked it (yesterday) they had almost 40K donated to them.
Up to 65k.
pizzas being catered to a gay wedding. lol. Thats worse than bringing ice cream as a gift to a gay person's house.
I will welcome all unwanted gifts of ice cream
Skellig Gra
Member
Ironically that would be a much much more hostile environment than the reverse they are so keen on protecting.
With so many US (I assume) lawyers here in the thread, can't any of you take a minute to answer my simple question above? Please?
All according to keikaku.
http://iga.in.gov/documents/92b34f58
Here's the language that's going to be added from the Conference Committee Report
Freedom Indiana is pretty happy about it, but they're going to push to add LBGT as a protected class under state law next
Here's the language that's going to be added from the Conference Committee Report
Freedom Indiana is pretty happy about it, but they're going to push to add LBGT as a protected class under state law next
Ding ding ding.
Angelus Errare
Banned
STFU sheeple! Bof sides r da sayme!!
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Cornburrito is not a lawyer. I think she made a thread about working a non-paying job and getting abused by her boss.
Anyway, if you're doing cater to a wedding, do it right: all you can eat BBQ rib night at the sizzler!
Why? Is gofundme not the free market as well? No one (that I've heard anyway) is saying the State should outlaw boycotts. Die by the Invisible Hand, live by the Invisible Hand.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Business refuses to serve certain customers: free market at work!
Customers refuse to eat/buy at business, or protests (free speech!): RUBBLE! RUBBLE! RUBBLE! LIBRULS!
Cognitive dissonance, folks.
I'm not hearing people say the free market isn't working in the case of a boycott, just people saying they don't like to be boycotted, which seems like the natural reaction? I don't see the supposed hypocrisy here.
as it should be
RPGCrazied
Member
Remind me to never visit this state. Holy crap. I hope some business's will choose to not serve politicians or straight peoples weddings.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Of course there's hypocrisy. How is it not when as you've said, it's a natural reaction to being angry over something that's a free market principle? This isn't about people not saying the free market isn't working. It's about the free market benefiting someone, but when the table flips around, they're angry at the free market approach against them.
Blergmeister
Member
What I don't get is all the hate for pizza at the wedding? We did it at my wedding and it was the best thing ever! It's not the main course meal, it's for at 10 at night when the reception turns into a dance and people haven't eaten in hours on a stressful day.
Vincent Grayson
Member
If people haven't eaten in hours at your reception, that's a long-ass reception.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
I think only Texas excludes its civil rights laws from the effect of its RFRA.
I think his point is that the invisible hand of the free market will fix issues. You should boycott and the place goes out of business. See, problem fixed, discrimination gone because people to care of it.
Free market doesn't solve shit because nothing is local anymore and there are always people lining up for an opposite cause. Although maybe it will work here because I'd assume 65k is more than a shitty little pizza place would make in a year, take the money and run. Torch the place, blame the gays and get your insurance money too
Haha, the religious fundamentalist crowd must be having their head melt right now. Aw poor guys can't discriminate anymore *sniff*
And then those hilarious few businesses that have been outing themselves as intentionally discriminatory in the days since the law has been passed? Now we have names and businesses to actually test out and see if they break the law when the changes are made, by straight up intentionally sending "teh gays" into these shops. It's gonna be amazing. It was a trap all along >
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