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[Femmeworth]

He can only say this because Nintendo can't pander to that audience anymore and be successful.

 

[Madness]

Isn't that's Miyamoto's entire argument? You prefer games that offer you less gameplay and more graphical smoke and mirrors(his words)?

Uh, it's Nintendo games that are graphical smoke and mirrors, not the other way around. Also, I'd say the gameplay of Grand Theft Auto V, or something like the upcoming Witcher 3 will actually give you more gameplay than any Zelda game ever has. Give me the gameplay of an Assassins Creed II, Red Dead Redemption and Skyrim over what Skyward Sword gave any day.

 

[Mysterious]

Do you know what Market Share means?

Current Gen: Nintendo has about 30% Market Share

Last Gen: Nintendo has about 40%

Two Gens Ago: Nintendo had 10% Market Share

Uh... they had a head year start. So far,
PS4 - 10M (sold-in)
Wii U - 6M (shipped)
Xbox One - 6M (shipped)

Their market share is only going to erode.

Most people, right or wrong, do not count handhelds in Console Market Share.

That was sarcasm about an earlier post claiming Nintendo has 90% of the console market share.

 

[Kiote]

Uh... they had a head year start. So far,
PS4 - 10M (sold-in)
Wii U - 6M (shipped)
Xbox One - 6M (shipped)

Their market share is only going to erode.


That was sarcasm about an earlier post claiming Nintendo has 90% of the console market share.

Time is not a factor in market share. Market Share is strictly the number of Customers present in your portion of the total current customer base.

It's pretty apparent that this is going to be another PS2, GCN, Xbox like gen, but there is no correlation between generational sales or market share for any company, there never has been, and there never will be.

 

[Coolwhip]

So what IS the target audience for Nintendo?

 

[ArchedThunder]

I'd actually argue that the Wii U was one of the bigger risks Nintendo has ever took... a $350 console with power on par with last gen consoles and an expensive ass controller with a screen. $350 is $100 more than the next most expensive console Nintendo has ever launched, and it was being sold at a loss for over a year. Nintendo has NEVER done that shit. Wii was profitable from day one. I'm pretty sure N64 and Gamecube were as well, or a couple of months after launch at the latest.

Wii U was selling at a LOSS at $350, and only just this year started to be sold at a profit. That's insane. As much of a risk as the Wii was (crazy controller unlike anything we've ever seen, last gen power), if it were to fail, at least Nintendo was making a profit from day one. Not so with the Wii U, and just look how badly they're hurting.

Compare that to PS4, a "real" next gen console that was only $399 at launch. It sold at a loss at launch, but as of May 2014, was being sold at a profit. There's NO risk with the PS4. There is no CELL processor busting the balls of dev teams, or "blu ray player in 2006" equivalent driving up the price. That shit is basically a moderately powerful computer, and it's sold 10 million units in 9 months.

Nintendo needs to take less risks, if anything. Follow the leader AND put your own, unique spin on things. It's not an either/or.

Basically. Nintendo needs to look at the PS4's philosophy and do something similar. They need to make the strongest possible console that they can for $250 in 2016 and they need to make it easy to develop for. No gimmicks, nothing that will drive the price up. They need to build an environment that is good for gamers and developers. They can allow connectivity with the gamepad for backwards compatibility, but the primary controllers should be the Wii remote and a regular controller that could have a unique feature as long as it isn't unattractive and expensive. Doing this along with building their cross handeld and console ecosystem while focusing on strong first party titles and deals with third parties for games like Bayo2 and Hyrule Warriors is probably the only way they can salvage themselves. They need a console with a low price barrier, clear marketing and strong software

Either that or they place all their bets on a "new innovation" to try a replicate their DS and Wii success and end up taking massive losses if it doesn't work.

 

[Kiote]

So what IS the target audience for Nintendo?

I think it's pretty safe to say, Nintendo does not have a target audience for the Wii U anymore. They have reached, for better or worse, the throw it at the wall and see what sticks phase. The next few years of Nintendo first party software is going to be an amazing combination of amazing and wtf.

You can count on a Major Shift with the next console though.

 

[maniac-kun]

Finaly he says what i thought all along. Give us hardcore games Nintendo.

 

[Kiote]

Nintendo needs to crawl farther down the rabbit hole. They need to focus on cost effectiveness to maintain profitability with a lower user base and create a more wide spread cross platform eco system. They need to bulk up their first and second party offerings, release multiple tiers of devices and ignore both the casual and hardcore markets.

Nintendo needs to solidify their position as your second console and your primary handheld. They need to have enough software to justify the purchases every year and they need to keep costs down.

The PSBox games industry is on the verge of imploding. Trying to fight your way back in without one of them dropping out would be suicide.

 

[Marcus]

no more casual games from nintendo?

i'll believe it when i see it

 

[mo60]

That's cool Shiggy. Does this undo the damage he caused with Paper Mario? Was he not the driving force behind the stellar Wii Music? Hmm. Well it's never too late to take a different tack. ¯\_(' - ' )_/¯



Lots of people say there's no room for three "HD Twins" with full third party support. I say pish. Would it really be so bad if we somehow had three consoles that sold from 30 to 60 million each, with one or two slightly more dominant than the others? There's a million ways it could go down. One big loser or no real loser or something in between but hiding behind "it should never happen because I say it won't work" doesn't work for me.



Did you really just "but Sony"?

I mean great. Does this somehow undo Nintendo's own problems?

When people say that they are probably looking at what happened in previous generations(like the N64 and/or Gamecube generation) when nintendo tried something like that to an extent and it failed both times. It is incredibly hard for nintendo to do that now a days also because of higher development costs and they also try to make their products as cheap as possible most of the time.It's also becoming insanely hard for some publishers to profit off of their games because their games may have to sell 5 or 6 million now a days to be profitable(if they are unlucky).

 

[Poimandres]

Time is not a factor in market share. Market Share is strictly the number of Customers present in your portion of the total current customer base.

It's pretty apparent that this is going to be another PS2, GCN, Xbox like gen, but there is no correlation between generational sales or market share for any company, there never has been, and there never will be.

By this definition, wouldn't that also include last gen consoles? People are still buying 360's/PS3's... Wii's not so much.

 

[mo60]

Nintendo needs to crawl farther down the rabbit hole. They need to focus on cost effectiveness to maintain profitability with a lower user base and create a more wide spread cross platform eco system. They need to bulk up their first and second party offerings, release multiple tiers of devices and ignore both the casual and hardcore markets.

Nintendo needs to solidify their position as your second console and your primary handheld. They need to have enough software to justify the purchases every year and they need to keep costs down.

The PSBox games industry is on the verge of imploding. Trying to fight your way back in without one of them dropping out would be suicide.

Nintendo won't go down that route. They will still spend lots of money on games they think need to sell well like Smash Bros,Mario Kart(maybe) and any other big franchise they want to waste lots of money on.

 

[out0v0rder]

i think the best way to define a casual or hardcore gamer is to set a metric on the amount of games they purchase and play per year. someone can play games thousands of hours per year, but if it was call of duty and gta the entire time.......they are a casual gamer. meanwhile, someone who buys 30+ games a year and grows their backlog is still a hardcore gamer even though they have less hours played per year than a casual gamer. just my opinion of course.

 

[BBboy20]

strong software

They've always had but nobody is either paying attention or care.

 

[PdotMichael]

I believe the translation is wrong and that's not actually what he said, but we'll know for sure soon enough.

You mean Nintendo would greenlight an interviews with such translation errors?

 

[Kiote]

By this definition, wouldn't that also include last gen consoles? People are still buying 360's/PS3's... Wii's not so much.

Yes, thats why i listed out three gens of console. Despite continued sales of 360s and PS3, they have not passed the Wii. They are also both petering out.

If you combined both Gens together, Nintendo technically has the highest market share. The comparison is irrelevant though since Nintendo stopped supporting the Wii three years ago.

The hardest part about comparing the three companies is that Nintendo is still working on a 5 years console cycle while the other two have moved to a ten year cycle.

 

[Kiote]

You mean Nintendo would greenlight an interviews with such translation errors?

This thread is quoting an article about an article that has not been released.

 

[Poimandres]

Yes, thats why i listed out three gens of console. Despite continued sales of 360s and PS3, they have not passed the Wii. They are also both petering out.

If you combined both Gens together, Nintendo technically has the highest market share. The comparison is irrelevant though since Nintendo stopped supporting the Wii three years ago.

The hardest party about comparing the three companies is that Nintendo is still working on a 5 years console cycle while the other two have moved to a ten year cycle.

Yeah, that's reasonable for sure!

 

[ArchedThunder]

They've always had but nobody is either paying attention or care.

The Wii U is an unattractive system for many reasons. They have to have an affordable system that is attractive to the consumer for their software to really matter.

 

[PdotMichael]

This thread is quoting an article about an article that has not been released.

Your point? CVG asspulled a Miyamoto quote?

CVG and EDGE are part of the same company, so you can believe that they are accurate in this regard.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Yes, thats why i listed out three gens of console. Despite continued sales of 360s and PS3, they have not passed the Wii. They are also both petering out.

If you combined both Gens together, Nintendo technically has the highest market share. The comparison is irrelevant though since Nintendo stopped supporting the Wii three years ago.

The hardest part about comparing the three companies is that Nintendo is still working on a 5 years console cycle while the other two have moved to a ten year cycle.

lol wut.....why would anyone do that? That doesn't even make sense. Shall we add the 60 million PS2's that were sold last gen as well lol

Usually a new console generation comes out every 6 years. When Sony says 10 year cycle they are talking about how long they plan to keep the console in production and continue selling it. Nintendo consoles have always been short lived compared to their Playstation and now even Xbox counterparts.

 

[Kiote]

Your point? CVG asspulled a Miyamoto quote?

Without a doubt. Miyamoto may have a reputation for being a critical boss, but he does not have a reputation for being rude to the public. There is very little chance that he called anyone pathetic in an interview, let alone customers. The worst things he has ever said in public were critics of tech and design, not people.

 

[PdotMichael]

Without a doubt. Miyamoto may have a reputation for being a critical boss, but he does not have a reputation for being rude to the public. There is very little chance that he called anyone pathetic in an interview, let alone customers. The worst things he has ever said in public were critics of tech and design, not people.

That's a way to ignore reality.

 

[Klart]

They just never 'got it'. That the audience they captured with the Wii would never transfer over to their main franchises, that it wouldn't be a steady, constant source of income like their hardcore fans or children are.

I remember reading those interviews about how the Phantom Hourglass team were inspired by Brain Age in making their game accessible to the expanded market. But the Brain Age crowd were never going to play Zelda, they had no interest in a narrative based adventure starring a goofy elf. There were multiple franchises where I think they made this mistake. Nintendoland was the last great gamble of this type. To mix minigames and a Wii Sports-esque 'new controller' hook but literally plonk all the franchises there in front of the casuals. Of course it failed, and the Wii U with it.

Now they seem bitter that the audience refused to migrate and their plans didn't work out (or Miyamoto does anyway) but this realisation has to be a good thing for people who care about their games.

Nintendo are doing amazingly with their software over the last two years, hit after hit after hit. Long may it continue.

So right.

 

[Kiote]

lol wut.....why would anyone do that? That doesn't even make sense. Shall we add the 60 million PS2's that were sold last gen as well lol

Thats exactly the point I was making. You should read the post I was responding to.

Usually a new console generation comes out every 6 years. When Sony says 10 year cycle they are talking about how long they plan to keep the console in production and continue selling it. Nintendo consoles have always been short lived compared to their Playstation and now even Xbox counterparts.

Also exactly what I was saying. PlayStation Started selling it's consoles and continuing to make games for them for 10 years. Microsoft followed suit. Nintendo did not.

It is entirely possible that the Wii and GCN could have continued to sell a few thousand Units here and there like the PS3 and 360 will do if Nintendo had continued to make Games for it. But they don't.

That makes it very hard to compare the success of the final numbers of a Nintendo console to a PlayStation or Xbox beyond Total Sales. You can't just say the Wii is less popular than the Xbox360 this year because the Xbox360 is still selling because they don't support the Wii anymore and haven't for years.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'll believe it when I see it.

Nintendo can start by making sure Smash Bros is accessible for casual players while at the same time providing the depth and precision that competitive fighting game players desire.

 

[SkeptiMism]

i think the best way to define a casual or hardcore gamer is to set a metric on the amount of games they purchase and play per year. someone can play games thousands of hours per year, but if it was call of duty and gta the entire time.......they are a casual gamer. meanwhile, someone who buys 30+ games a year and grows their backlog is still a hardcore gamer even though they have less hours played per year than a casual gamer. just my opinion of course.

That's not a very good metric at all really.

A person can play Dota 2 for years in a very high level for example, and you don't have to even buy it as it's free. You don't even have to pay for it at all. Playing Dota 2 on high level requires dedication and skill, so you can't say a person like that wouldn't be a core gamer (I much prefer using just "core" instead of "hardcore" by the way).

And anyway, there are plenty of people who don't buy that many games but still are very much core gamers regardless.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Thats exactly the point I was making. You should read the post I was responding to.



Also exactly what I was saying. PlayStation Started selling it's consoles and continuing to make games for them for 10 years. Microsoft followed suit. Nintendo did not.

It is entirely possible that the Wii and GCN could have continued to sell a few thousand Units here and there like the PS3 and 360 will do if Nintendo had continued to make Games for it. But they don't.

That makes it very hard to compare the success of the final numbers of a Nintendo console to a PlayStation or Xbox beyond Total Sales. You can just say the Wii is less popular than the Xbox360 this year because the Xbox360 is still selling because they don't support the Wii anymore and haven't for years.

They did not continue making games for it for 10 years. The vast majority of SCE moved on bar certain franchises such as their sports one and Singstar. It was the third parties that continued releasing games for the systems and the third parties that created such an attractive library of games. Add to that Sony being able to distribute the console in various parts of the world and maintaining a low price.

Nintendo does not have third party support to do this.

 

[monome]

hummm...

Nintendo is just playing with words.

Their casual initiative is not going away.
It simply is moving away from consoles to cloud and partnerships with QoL.

Methinks they see Sony's decision to go back to basics with PS4 and MS shooting itself in the foot with their One motto as pretty well aligned with what they want for Nintendo's future.
aka they will try and be as simple as possible when it comes to defining their offerings and move away from WiiU's divisive all-in-oneness (HD, legacy Wii, apps, core and casual games, home & mobile) initial approach.

 

[fallagin]

He can only say this because Nintendo can't pander to that audience anymore and be successful.

This is true, but I also have to wonder if what he is saying also comes from artist's point of view. I cant really see pandering to the crowd that eats up kim kardashians wild ride as something very satisfying on an artistic level.

During the wii days I think he must have thought that these people were really appreciating their games on an artistic level and were coming to games as more than a passing fad. Nintendo's current wiiu decline has probably opened his eyes some to the nature of the main stream beast. He probably understood it beforehand, but it seems like it is really hitting home for him now.

 

[Fady K]

I'm sure he didn't mean pathetic, but as for the general message? Hats off to Miyamoto. The most respectable statement he made for me in a while.

 

[PdotMichael]

hummm...

Nintendo is just playing with words.

Their casual initiative is not going away.
It simply is moving away from consoles to cloud and partnerships with QoL.

Well, Miyamoto's statement basically kills any QoL ambitions (even they never explained the QoL strategy).

"Fortunately, because of the spread of smart devices, people take games for granted now. It's a good thing for us, because we do not have to worry about making games something that are relevant to general people's daily lives."

Nintendo is a losing position.

Core gamer -> Sony
casuals -> mobile, f2p etc.
QoL -> Apple, Google

 

[Sendou]

I find it pretty amusing that people are talking about QoL as if they know what it is.

 

[Mokujin]

I shed a tear of happiness after reading that comment...

Can I have my Metroid Prime sequel already, pretty please?

 

[Clefargle]

more gameplay.

Wat? As far as I know there is only better or worse gameplay, not more. I mean, skyrim and GTA are longer than most Zelda games. Is that what you mean? Because I don't consider length to be the end-all qualifier of a good game. Often games have artificial length with no real meaty extra content to back up the long playtime. The zelda franchise has been guilty of this before but some games also fit into this group because of all the bloody fetch quests.

 

[Bgamer90]

Time is not a factor in market share. Market Share is strictly the number of Customers present in your portion of the total current customer base.

It's pretty apparent that this is going to be another PS2, GCN, Xbox like gen....

Disagree -- Wii U is doing worse than the GameCube and no console is going to be as dominant as the PS2 was during its time.

Would more so say that it will be another PS1/N64/Saturn gen.

Anyway, I really didn't take Miyamoto's statements as him saying talking about casual gamers. It sounds like he is more so talking about gamers that want everything catered to them and refuse to try games that are different (or harder) in comparison to what they usually play.

 

[2+2=5]

I don't like his attitude, i don't like casual games but i respect who like them, Nintendo made lots of money thanks to casuals and now because they migrated on IOS they are pathetic? Sorry but he's the one being pathetic, everyone deserve respect even those he doesn't like anymore(but he really liked their money).

 

[Arozay]

Who the hell really says shade?

It's so fetch!

 

[orioto]

Yeah i don't know, there is no real pride in shifting targets like crazy, trying to sell that as the move of a pure company faithful to its roots and strong values...

_Gamers don't raike us anymore, the little bastards, our fans who buy everything we do don't give us enough money
_Let's find blue ocean with millions of great "normal" people
_Those people, the fuckers don't like us anymore
_Gamers we love you, coooome back! We always loved you!

That's really not that great..

 

[Aisha85]

If anything, he is the one who is sounding pathetic here.. Not sure why people are cheering him on.

 

[Sendou]

I don't like his attitude, i don't like casual games but i respect who like them, Nintendo made lots of money thanks to casuals and now because they migrated on IOS they are pathetic? Sorry but he's the one being pathetic, everyone deserve respect even those he doesn't like anymore(but he really liked their money).

Regarding that Cheesemeister said something interesting on Twitter (I don't know if it was posted but I suppose it's worth repeating even if it was):



Obviously if you call someone pathetic in English it's a negative thing to say to that person. Saying you feel sorry (or pity) for someone isn't the same anymore.

 

[Honey Bunny]

The fox decided he didn't want the grapes

 

[69wpm]

Obviously if you call someone pathetic in English it's a negative thing to say to that person. Saying you feel sorry (or pity) for someone isn't the same anymore.

It might be a good idea to point out that the term pathetic has more than one meaning, one of them is that you feel sorry for someone. Just because some people like to use it (exclusively) as a swear word doesn't change the fact that it could mean something entirely different. I'm sure Miyamoto meant that he felt sorry for the casual crowd.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Schlepping back to the wife after the mistress found a better offer.

 

[Sendou]

It might be a good idea to point out that the term pathetic has more than one meaning, one of them is that you feel sorry for someone. Just because some people like to use it (exclusively) as a swear word doesn't change the fact that it could mean something entirely different. I'm sure Miyamoto meant that he felt sorry for the casual crowd.

Well English isn't my native language but I personally can't image saying a person or their actions are pathetic could ever be a positive thing. Although that also involves cultural aspects.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Kind of ironic considering that the current culture he hates is something he helped shape just a few years back.

 

[monome]

Well, Miyamoto's statement basically kills any QoL ambitions (even they never explained the QoL strategy).

I think Miyamoto has pretty much nothing to do with QoL outside his board member status.

I'm not a seer, and since nothing is known about QoL it's just pure conjecture of my part, but I expect some cross-company wide initiative with a telco biz, transportation companies and the support of local businesses/cities and stuff built around daily and mundane japanese centric activities.

Think streetpass X miiverse X Fit X NFC

Both Apple and Google will keep their initiatives at software/hardware levels they 100% control.

Other than that, it's best Miyamoto is kept overseeing games. He has a keen eye.

 

[PdotMichael]

I think Miyamoto has pretty much nothing to do with QoL outside his board member status.

I'm not a seer, and since nothing is known about QoL it's just pure conjecture of my part, but I expect some cross-company wide initiative with a telco biz, transportation companies and the support of local businesses/cities and stuff built around daily and mundane japanese centric activities.

Think streetpass X miiverse X Fit X NFC

Both Apple and Google will keep their initiatives at software/hardware levels they 100% control.

Other than that, it's best Miyamoto is kept overseeing games. He has a keen eye.

Quality of Life is all about daily lives of people.

Saying that you don't want to make anything that involves the daily lives of your customers is the opposite of a QoL strategy.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Quality of Life is all about daily lives of people.

Saying that you don't want to make anything that involves the daily lives of your customers is the opposite of a QoL strategy.

QoL likely isn't game-related. Miyamoto is talking about games in this context.