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[Deku Tree]

Smart business move. Nintendo finally realized that the casual market has left them... Sounds like the QOL stuff is vaporware.

 

[Buddha Beam]

Kind of agree with him, but at the same time I think it's foolish of Nintendo to seemingly abandon that audience. It's become evident that their core base can't really sustain them in any meaningful way, and the "hardcore" COD and GTA playing crowd is never going to give them the time of day.
They do still have a lot of currency or brand recognition among the casual audience, even if they've moved on to iOS and Android though.

He's right that that crowd is passive and fickle, but I don't see who else is out there for Nintendo to go after. It makes them seem even MORE rudderless and lacking vision than they already are.


For the first time, I actually think it might be best if someone like Disney acquired them. This company needs direction badly, and they obviously aren't getting it from the people in charge. They obviously still make some of the best, if not the best, games available... but beyond that I think they're incompetent at this stage.

 

[LegendofLex]

Smart business move. Nintendo finally realized that the casual market has left them... Sounds like the QOL stuff is vaporware.

QOL will still happen... They'll just use it to prop up the losses from their gaming business instead of leveraging it to create a new market for games.

 

[RE_Player]

That's what happens when you actively try to sell games to people who do not give a shit about games. The Wii was lightening in a bottle and I hope Nintendo realizes that it has to satisfy it's core market or else they will truly have nothing.

 

[Sendou]

Sounds like the QOL stuff is vaporware.

Yeah, no.

QOL will still happen... They'll just use it to prop up the losses from their gaming business instead of leveraging it to create a new market for games.

That makes no sense.

 

[Sirolf]

Good words from the man.

 

[Mutanthands]

That translation doesn't sound right. I don't think Miyamoto would be so definitively dismissive of any potential audience.

It's odd that we're so intent on putting various types of gamers in boxes, when casual can cross over to "core" and vice versa, depending on how much time you have, and what's appealing to you at any one time.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Between this and his "bloody shooters" comment at E3, I wonder if we're starting to see grumpy old man Miyamoto.

 

[Pappasman]

I'll believe him when i see a new F-Zero and a Smash game that plays like Melee.

 

[Aquamarine]

Kind of agree with him, but at the same time I think it's foolish of Nintendo to seemingly abandon that audience. It's become evident that their core base can't really sustain them in any meaningful way, and the "hardcore" COD and GTA playing crowd is never going to give them the time of day.

He's right that that crowd is passive and fickle, but I don't see who else is out there for Nintendo to go after. It makes them seem even MORE rudderless and lacking vision than they already are.


For the first time, I actually think it might be best if someone like Disney acquired them. This company needs direction badly, and they obviously aren't getting it from the people in charge. They obviously still make some of the best, if not the best, games available... but beyond that I think they're incompetent at this stage.

Miyamoto says "We don't need to appeal to casuals because they're going to smartphones," but it seems like he's only saying that because Nintendo is too stubborn to follow them.

I feel like it's almost a bit of a copout so Nintendo management can justify their waning appeal to casual audiences through traditional methods.

 

[Bossun]

GOOD!!

Now just make sure Zelda lives up to the expectations, bring back baten kaitos and Gamecube era games and I'll buy a Wii U. I'll even play xenoblade and older zeldas on it!

 

[Ingueferroque]

This, and the Mario Kart DLC, gets me excited for the F-Zero game we all want..

Please Nintendo, fix your account system! Let me buy and download your games across multiple devices! Let me store my purchases on my account! Let me play Virtual Console games across 3DS and Wii-U with synchronized save states!

And you will have a lot of my monies.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Meh I put quotes around hardcore for a reason. It's a stupid term that gained traction in the PS3/360 age. The Wii U has clearly been focused on core gamers since the beginning. At least Nintendo core gamers or whatever. I remember when FPS and the like we're considered casual but things change apparently.

lol
who doesn't remember the clearly hardcore focused Wii U re-introduction featuring pathetic Wii Fit and New Mario cash-ins, poor ports of 1 year old 3rd party games and Nintendoland fireworks. One year later they shat straight on the faces of Nintendo fans by having EAD Tokyo make a quick sequel to the handheld game instead of Galaxy, because casuals liked the former more and Retro rehashing their Wii title with little improvements for the same reason.

This year had the first good, somewhat gamer orientated nintendo e3 since 2010 and only because their desperate attempts at further exploiting Wii Fit audiences have utterly failed. Now, the original Wii back in 2006 was clearly aimed at both audiences, while the Wiiu was an incompetent attempt at recreating the phenomenon without realising what made the wii good.

 

[Stone Ocean]

way to reject the hand who fed them last gen.

Where's that hand now?

 

[Instro]

If that's the attitude now, it will be fascinating to see how they handle their next cycle. Perhaps they've accepted their niche position in gaming, and will be after bigger markets with other devices like the QoL stuff.

 

[Lazulic]

That felt so good to read.

 

[Off-Kilter]

Miyamoto says Nintendo no longer needs to reach out to those customers.

This is legit music to my ears.

 

[Opiate]

Who is Nintendo's audience supposed to be, then? Not casual gamers, apparently. They've also ridiculed "core" gamers in the past (references to playing in the dark, etc.), and those gamers have certainly abandoned them en masse for PS/Xbox.

I'm not saying there is no room outside the "casual" and "core" audiences, but I would say that whatever's left once you take those two markets out is pitifully small in comparison.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Awesome quote and hell of respect for the man.

 

[Majukun]

Between this and his "bloody shooters" comment at E3, I wonder if we're starting to see grumpy old man Miyamoto.

we are seeing him since he said he wanted to make a game to teach kids to give their seats on the bus to old people

 

[Molemitts]

Didn't Nintendo realize this though? Wasn't the Wii U specifically marketed as a return to hardcore console gaming, with all the unprecedented 3rd party partnership that entails? Also, isn't it just about the nichiest home console you can get now? My observation is that casuals are definitely not buying the Wii U, and that most Wii U owners are actually pretty hardcore gamers who need (just fucking NEED) to have access to those Nintendo exclusives. It turns out there aren't too many of them, which sucks for Nintendo though.

They flipped back and forth with who Wii U is market towards. I guess they tried to please everyone and by doing that pleased neither parties. Except Nintendo fans who'll buy their stuff for their games, but that fanbase along isn't enough to sell a console successfully.

 

[BY2K]

way to reject the hand who fed them last gen.

That hand rejected them when the Wii U came out, so...

 

[darkazcura]

lol
who doesn't remember the clearly hardcore focused Wii U re-introduction featuring pathetic Wii Fit and New Mario cash-ins, poor ports of 1 year old 3rd party games and Nintendoland fireworks. One year later they shat straight on the faces of Nintendo fans by having EAD Tokyo make a quick sequel to the handheld game instead of Galaxy, because casuals liked the former more and Retro rehashing their Wii title with little improvements for the same reason.

This year had the first good, somewhat gamer orientated nintendo e3 since 2010 and only because their desperate attempts at further exploiting Wii Fit audiences have utterly failed. Now, the original Wii back in 2006 was clearly aimed at both audiences, while the Wiiu was an incompetent attempt at recreating the phenomenon without realising what made the wii good.

This is probably the most slanted post I have seen in a long time. Your agenda is incredibly transparent when you called 3D World a 'quick sequel'. Rolling my eyes.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Have you guys actually played Nintendoland? It's not really a casual title...

 

[javac]

Yes it is.

You played Champion's Road?

 

[Devil]

lol
who doesn't remember the clearly hardcore focused Wii U re-introduction featuring pathetic Wii Fit and New Mario cash-ins, poor ports of 1 year old 3rd party games and Nintendoland fireworks. One year later they shat straight on the faces of Nintendo fans by having EAD Tokyo make a quick sequel to the handheld game instead of Galaxy, because casuals liked the former more and Retro rehashing their Wii title with little improvements for the same reason.

Are you... are you saying that 3D World and Tropical Freeze are targeted at an "casual" audience and that they're equivalent to a "shit on the face"...? Really now?

Huh. Then I guess I'll consider myself casual now and have a fecal fetish I never knew of.

 

[Vinc]

A refocused Nintendo could mean incredible things for the short term future of video games. I can't wait.

 

[Nanashrew]

Who is Nintendo's audience supposed to be, then? Not casual gamers, apparently. They've also ridiculed "core" gamers in the past (references to playing in the dark, etc.), and those gamers have certainly abandoned them en masse for PS/Xbox.

I'm not saying there is no room outside the "casual" and "core" audiences, but I would say that whatever's left once you take those two markets out is pitifully small in comparison.

I had a theory awhile back that Nintendo would use this time to rebuild themselves and try to regain lost trust. Maybe we might start seeing this now.

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

This. People misuse the word casual. A "casual" game like Wii Sports is more like an old school arcade game. The input method maybe simplified, but the experience is straight up game play.

Shiggy was talking about gamers who sit back and watch the game play itself on Easy mode. And the designers who build the games around that Easy mode and impose arbitrary challenge in Hard mode. He's saying it's "pathetic" that those games derive their value from passive elements like lengthy cut scenes, set pieces, and graphical spectacle instead of game play. I agree. If you want to watch a movie, than watch a movie.

There was a whole thread on BioShock 1 vs. 2 yesterday where some people were saying things to the extent of "the only area where BS 2 is better is game play. Other than that BS 1 shits all over BS 2". That's the kind of gamer Shiggy is calling "pathetic".

Very much my takeaway, too.

 

[MilesTeg]

Who is Nintendo's audience supposed to be, then? Not casual gamers, apparently. They've also ridiculed "core" gamers in the past (references to playing in the dark, etc.), and those gamers have certainly abandoned them en masse for PS/Xbox.

I'm not saying there is no room outside the "casual" and "core" audiences, but I would say that whatever's left once you take those two markets out is pitifully small in comparison.

Hopefully from here on out, people who like good games.

 

[The Boat]

What's important here is that it shows they are aware the so called casual audience is mostly beyond reach thanks to smartphones now. Right on Miyamoto.

 

[Anth0ny]

In an age where Apple and Android smartphones have become the leading games platforms for the casual audience, Miyamoto says Nintendo no longer needs to reach out to those customers.

"In the days of DS and Wii, Nintendo tried its best to expand the gaming population," he said.

"Fortunately, because of the spread of smart devices, people take games for granted now. It's a good thing for us, because we do not have to worry about making games something that are relevant to general people's daily lives."

I find this entire quote incredible hard to believe.

Also, if he really did say that and it's not just a weird translation, they're doing a horrible job with it. It definitely wasn't the mode of thinking when the Wii U launched.

I'd love to see this philosophy transfer to their next console/handheld.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Didn't Nintendo realize this though? Wasn't the Wii U specifically marketed as a return to hardcore console gaming, with all the unprecedented 3rd party partnership that entails? Also, isn't it just about the nichiest home console you can get now? My observation is that casuals are definitely not buying the Wii U, and that most Wii U owners are actually pretty hardcore gamers who need (just fucking NEED) to have access to those Nintendo exclusives. It turns out there aren't too many of them, which sucks for Nintendo though.

They claimed it was for the hardcore crowd, but all of their 3rd party deals fell through seemingly because of Nintendo and they released a machine with weak specs for the price they were selling it at that had an unattractive controller and gimmick as well as confusing marketing. The Wii U is Nintendo's fault, not the core gamer's.

 

[Majukun]

Who is Nintendo's audience supposed to be, then? Not casual gamers, apparently. They've also ridiculed "core" gamers in the past (references to playing in the dark, etc.), and those gamers have certainly abandoned them en masse for PS/Xbox.

I'm not saying there is no room outside the "casual" and "core" audiences, but I would say that whatever's left once you take those two markets out is pitifully small in comparison.

since the casuals of today don't want nintendo anymore because they have their smartphone and the casuals of the past never wanted nintendo in the first place,their loyal "nintendo fanbase" is the only one they can try to appeal

 

[10k]

This was the messaging that the company needed while developing the Wii U. It seems they tried to please both crowds.

Still, as if Miyamoto needed more respect and props from me he somehow just got more lol

 

[Peltz]

Interesting. I don't see this as a big change in direction for their software development... but rather as a shift in their next gen hardware design.

 

[SmokyDave]

Sounding a bit like a jilted ex there Shiggy.

Still, you've always got your ever-diminishing core fanbase to fall back on.

 

[sntstbn]

A problem with this thread is that it uses the term 'casual', when the source article didn't. What Myamoto said was

his team does not want to focus on making content for people who "passively" enjoy games.

I find it hard to see how that translates to 'casual gamers'.

The part that talks about the expanded gaming population seems to come from a different portion of the interview, where he says

Fortunately, because of the spread of smart devices, people take games for granted now. It's a good thing for us, because we do not have to worry about making games something that are relevant to general people's daily lives.

I think this is an interesting thought. And it does signal a shift from Nintendo, in that they do not see their position as being the one to introduce people to gaming, but the one that takes them from mobile games to console/handheld games.

All in all, I don't see how he is slamming casual gamers in any way.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Nintendoland and NSMBU were the primary games shown in that commercial. Yes, the singing game is casual by whatever meaning that has on this forum, but the day games like Nintendoland and NSMBU are considered casual and not 'core' games is an incredibly sad day. I may not enjoy 2D platformers that much anymore but those two games are what games should be in their purest sense. All about the gameplay. It's core as it gets. Nintendo has followed up the Wii U launch with games like 3D world, wonderful 101, pikmin 3, and they are publishing Bayonetta 2. Actions speak louder than words, and Nintendo has clearly had a different focus with the Wii U than the Wii. It's the same reason I will already own as many Wii U games as I do Wii games by the end of the year. Their focus is back to the way it used to be.

I'm talking about the commercial itself. How is that commercial really any different than the style of commercial they made for the Wii? It isn't. It could've easily been a commercial for a series of Wii games. I know Nintendo said that they were going to target core gamers with the WIi U. But it really just showed how confused their marketing was. On one hand they were talking about being more of a core console, and on the other they were still marketing it like it was the Wii.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Nintendo knew that most of the 100mil people who bought a Wii were casuals.
Nintendo thought that many of these people who started gaming with the Wii will continue and become more core with the WiiU.
Instead most of them just quit console gaming and moved to smartphones and tablets and the ones who were hooked and wanted more console gaming got a Ps4.

Miyamoto seems a littles pissed, but if you ask me its Nintendos fault.
They just can't compete with what Sony and Microsoft have to offer.
Hardware, OS, online infrastructur, 3rd party support etc.

Consumers aren't loyal. If there are better product out there your product will fail.
No need to blame consumers for that.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

I find this entire quote incredible hard to believe.

Also, if he really did say that and it's not just a weird translation, they're doing a horrible job with it. It definitely wasn't the mode of thinking when the Wii U launched.

I'd love to see this philosophy transfer to their next console/handheld.

I feel like you think they made this change the same day this Edge article was published? Even looking at the MASSIVE shift between E3's should have made it apparent. Seriously, compare last year to this year and the types of games that were shown off and it's pretty obvious this is a transition that they realized they needed to make some time ago

 

[Mutanthands]

Who is Nintendo's audience supposed to be, then? Not casual gamers, apparently. They've also ridiculed "core" gamers in the past (references to playing in the dark, etc.), and those gamers have certainly abandoned them en masse for PS/Xbox.

I'm not saying there is no room outside the "casual" and "core" audiences, but I would say that whatever's left once you take those two markets out is pitifully small in comparison.

That's why this translation doesn't sound quite right to me. It seems short-sighted, when Nintendo should be trying to create experiences for both audiences, in order to bring in as much profit as possible. Some harder core games here, a few casual games there. Nintendo can't be so singleminded that they can't manage that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Excellent.

 

[darkazcura]

Are you... are you saying that 3D World and Tropical Freeze are targeted at an "casual" audience and that they're equivalent to a "shit on the face"...? Really now?

Huh. Then I guess I'll consider myself casual now and have a fecal fetish I never knew of.

Yeah man it is those kind of posts where I'm starting to wonder when all these definitions changed. 10 years ago games like Nintendoland, DKC, 3D World, etc would never be considered casual. So confusing.

Have people here even been paying attention to what Nintendo has been doing this generation? Miyamoto's quote should not be surprising at all if you have, and anyone expecting anything different than the last couple years will probably be very disappointed. That's why we got games like Nintendoland, 3D World, the DLC coming for MK8, Pikmin 3, 101, etc. Clearly not focused on casual gamers or those who want their games to play themselves.

 

[Scoot2005]

Kinda wish I wouldn't have traded my Wii U. Never expected Miyamoto to outright state this.

 

[MilesTeg]

This is probably the most slanted post I have seen in a long time. Your agenda is incredibly transparent when you called 3D World a 'quick sequel'. Rolling my eyes.

To be fair, it was a very quick turnaround for the 3D Mario team. Only two years between games, and they are pretty similar to each other.

 

[udivision]

Who is Nintendo's audience supposed to be, then? Not casual gamers, apparently. They've also ridiculed "core" gamers in the past (references to playing in the dark, etc.), and those gamers have certainly abandoned them en masse for PS/Xbox.

I'm not saying there is no room outside the "casual" and "core" audiences, but I would say that whatever's left once you take those two markets out is pitifully small in comparison.

That's what I'm saying.

Maybe we're all just reading too much into this quote, and next gen they'll be chasing the same audience that the Wii and Wii U (kinda) was aiming for?

 

[pvpness]

Who is Nintendo's audience supposed to be, then? Not casual gamers, apparently. They've also ridiculed "core" gamers in the past (references to playing in the dark, etc.), and those gamers have certainly abandoned them en masse for PS/Xbox.

I'm not saying there is no room outside the "casual" and "core" audiences, but I would say that whatever's left once you take those two markets out is pitifully small in comparison.

Seriously. This has me befuddled. Who exactly are they going to aim at if this is what they think? Maybe they're thinking that smartphones bring them to the party, but then hopefully they'll find their way on their own to the room where all the cool kids hang out?

There's definitely cross over between the audiences, but organically will that cross over be enough to sustain the traditional model? I'm skeptical. Doubling down on a dwindling, narrowing market is bad business for anybody, but especially for Nintendo.

 

[Nintendojitsu]

The casuals have turned their backs on Nintendo and Nintendo has returned the favor. How long before the indies get the same treatment?

 

[SeventhSon]

Miyamoto calling out the 'content tourists' and 'time wasters.'