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Miyamoto: Why I Spiked Mario Galaxy 2s Story (WIRED)
- Thread starter soldat7
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gamergirly
Member
Well, none of the original Super Mario Bros. titles had a significant story in them so can't say that I'm NOT used to it. Super Mario 64 didnt have a big story either, just triggers around certain events(when you would defeat Bowser, find a significant character on a level, etc.). I think the story starting getting heavy with Super Mario Sunshine(non-rpg wise). Maybe he felt to put a lot of story in the first Super Mario Galaxy because of all the interaction. But yes, some Super Mario Galaxy levels there are so much going on that I find myself skipping through conversation events just to get to the part that tells me what I need to do :lol
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I'm a wee bit disappointed as I thought Galaxy had a really nice balance of essential and option plot. In terms of Mario hopping from planet to planet there was not much, but the game didn't need it. But the simply yet sweet story of the Princess was a nice break.
Not that I need plot in my Mario, or that I think Mario is missing something if it doesn't have a plot. I just thought the Princess story and what-not was a nice extra to have.
Not that I need plot in my Mario, or that I think Mario is missing something if it doesn't have a plot. I just thought the Princess story and what-not was a nice extra to have.
The biggest problem with SMG cutscenes is that they are unskippable and that's a bother in replays. They may make dramatic Peach kidnappings and Star related plots as much as they want for all I care as long as I'm not forced to watch them whenever I want to play the game again.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
loosus said:
I strongly recommend the Berenstain Bears.
You gotta love those laid-back country bruins.
evilromero
Member
Holy shit. This could mean Galaxy 2 will be the best game in the series. Thank you Miyamoto for putting an end to this cinema envy shit.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
GCX said:
In all honesty the game would have been better without Nojima.
The only thing I have to ask the people who don't want a "Save the Princess" story, is what do you want the plot to be? Save Luigi (Even though that doesn't really fix the problem)? Only save the world? I mean, what motivation do you have to give Mario, he can't just beat up Bowser for the hell of it, he isn't Kirby.
I love a deep videogame story as much as anyone, but I agree that certain games simply don't need them and it could even be to their detriment - such as Mario and, say, Ninja Gaiden games.
I don't need any in-depth exposition on how and why the Princess got kidnapped yet again and why Mario continues to give a shit. Similarly, I don't want to know why a bunch of werewolves are wandering Times Square and why a ninja is slicing them in half with a large scythe.
Some things are best left unsaid.
I don't need any in-depth exposition on how and why the Princess got kidnapped yet again and why Mario continues to give a shit. Similarly, I don't want to know why a bunch of werewolves are wandering Times Square and why a ninja is slicing them in half with a large scythe.
Some things are best left unsaid.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
It's pretty funny that 28 years ago, Donkey Kong was on the forefront of video game storytelling.
WHERE WERE YOU IN 2002?
wrowa said:That storybook story in SMG was all kinds of awesome
Being 8x3 (+1), it was three times as awesome.Mr.Green said:
Well, it's not like there haven't been Mario games where that's not the objective. SMB2US's having them stuck in a different world was pretty good, a decent excuse for everything being entirely different, and allowed Peach to play a role as a very different type of playable character.Drkirby said:
leroy hacker
Member
Guled said:
Games are not movies, "art" doesn't have to involve storytelling.
Edit: Oops I didn't realize I was responding to a post from yesterday that had already been jumped upon.
Do you really think either Nintendo or Shigeru Miyamoto really cares if anyone thinks of his games as "art?" Do you think anybody outside GAF does? Do you think anybody outside GAF is irritated that Wii Sports and Wii Play didn't explain HOW the Mii's came to be?
I don't understand why anybody would want ANY game to have a storyline. What is the point? They always suck (yes, nerdlings, they do always suck -- please learn to read stories that require you to turn pages), they always get in the way of the actual game, they consume resources better spent elsewhere, and they take up valuable time for the working person who might only be able to play a game 15 minutes at the time. The only people who give a shit about storyline in a game are a.) kids or b.) people who have nothing better to do.
Not to mention the fact that you can get a storyline in plenty of other worthless games as we speak. Go play Metal Gear Solid 4. There's plenty of dumb story there for the ages.
I don't understand why anybody would want ANY game to have a storyline. What is the point? They always suck (yes, nerdlings, they do always suck -- please learn to read stories that require you to turn pages), they always get in the way of the actual game, they consume resources better spent elsewhere, and they take up valuable time for the working person who might only be able to play a game 15 minutes at the time. The only people who give a shit about storyline in a game are a.) kids or b.) people who have nothing better to do.
Not to mention the fact that you can get a storyline in plenty of other worthless games as we speak. Go play Metal Gear Solid 4. There's plenty of dumb story there for the ages.
You have it totally backwards. The story didn't "allow" that. The way the game played allowed the story to be like that.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
They could've just as easily said Wart was holding Peach and made the "Sister" (I think) replacement a different character.loosus said:
NeonZ
Member
I think stories can help the "set pieces" of the game. Even going back to Super Mario Bros 3, the little cutscene that shows Mario running through a castle to jump on the airship's anchor did wonders to set up the stage itself.
I'm not talking about character development or anything close to that, but I like stories that help set up the gameplay iteself and objects/locations shown through it.
dead souls
Member
loosus said:
Yes.
You have it exactly right. Storytelling in games is terrible and the sooner the industry as a whole realizes it the better off they'll be.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Super Mario Conquest. Mario's finally tired of the princess getting kidnapped, so he decides finally and utterly destroy Bowser and his empire.Drkirby said:
I found the game Miyamoto is talking about. It's Sonic Unleashed. Now that's a game where I found story was getting in the way of gameplay. I swear I was like "BUT LET ME PLAY SONIC PLEEEEAAASEEEE LET ME PLAY SONIC THATS WHY I PUT A SONIC GAME IN MY CONSOLE TO PLAY SONIIIICC ! ;_; ".
It clearly wasn't Mario Galaxy's case, so I still find this comment to be strange. (not the one about "Mario don't need no story", but the one about "Mario Galaxy had too much").
Agreed.
Also, It'd be fucking annoying if every goddamn time it took place in the same Mushroom Kindgom with the same goddamn Princess Peach.
I hope "no more story" doesn't mean they'll stop changing the setting with every 3D Mario like they've done with Sunshine and Galaxy.
It clearly wasn't Mario Galaxy's case, so I still find this comment to be strange. (not the one about "Mario don't need no story", but the one about "Mario Galaxy had too much").
EatChildren said:
Agreed.
Also, It'd be fucking annoying if every goddamn time it took place in the same Mushroom Kindgom with the same goddamn Princess Peach.
I hope "no more story" doesn't mean they'll stop changing the setting with every 3D Mario like they've done with Sunshine and Galaxy.
GhettoGamer
Member
Im still trying to figure out how people disagree with Shiggy, when we have Sonic and friends running wild
JoshuaJSlone
Member
A Paper Mario sized story? Definitely not. But I never saw the story in Galaxy as story for its own sake, but just one of the methods used to set the mood of the game. Like music or background design.skip said:
Because this isn't a binary option between two extremes. It's not a matter of making a choice between the story of Space Invaders or War and Peace.GhettoGamer said:
BriareosGAF
Member
Echoing many, I personally found the story in SMG sort of silly and completely beside the point, but my 4 year old daughter loved it to bits, and she loved the library sequences.
That said I'll take the SMG setting/story over Sunshine's any day...
That said I'll take the SMG setting/story over Sunshine's any day...
It seems that many people see only the two extremes, as far as story in Mario goes. I personally think the Mario RPGs weren't any worse off for having a story, and they certainly weren't in the realm of suck that Sonic and his shitty friends achieved.
I think the amount in SMG was just right for a platformer; most of it was optional, and moreover, it doesn't take itself any more seriously than a child's storybook. There's nothing wrong with liking it; heck, I'm sure some parents take some sort of guilty pleasure in reading children's books again.
I think the amount in SMG was just right for a platformer; most of it was optional, and moreover, it doesn't take itself any more seriously than a child's storybook. There's nothing wrong with liking it; heck, I'm sure some parents take some sort of guilty pleasure in reading children's books again.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Regulus Tera said:
I would have done a Nintendo story better than that fucker, heck, even my mother can do a better Nintendo story than him.
For fucks sake, his first version was Nintendo characters coming in a bus to the stadium!!
So hard was to add Robotnik and Liquid in a Metal Gear, with Ganondorf, Bowser and Ridley as main villains? Nothing original, only adding more and more levels of awesome to the story, even if at the end it didnt had sense it would be so fun and epic that it wouldn't matter.
Why he added a fucked up FF and KH bosses instead of awesome things as King. K Rool, the koopa kids, Black Shadow, Andross and other Nintendo villians just baffles me. They didnt even need to do them playable, just like Ridley.
I dont want him to touch anything that is from Nintendo ever again, even if it is with a ten foot pole.
YourMaster
Member
I know it's not what most people are looking for in a Mario game, but this is probably the reason I have yet to complete a 3d Mario game. I love the hopping around and all, but there's just no purpose to it. I'm not a 4 year old girl, I don't want to collect pretty shiny stars.
I've been playing a bit of galaxy lately, I'm around 50 or 60 stars in, while I've owned the game since launch. Bowser is doing all these evil things with the power stars, but it has no effect on my game at all. There's no incentive for me to either try to tackle the bosses as quickly as possible or the opposite, try to collect as many start as possible before taking down the bosses. I would love some sort of strategic incentive.
That Super Mario Conquest mentioned above would be just the Mario I would love. Strategically taking down Bowsers empire completely, while defending from counter attacks on me or the mushroom kingdom. And I'm not afraid to sacrifice some Toads in the process.
I think story is very important in games, but only if done well. I hate the stories in the Mario games. How it was done in New Super Mario Bros was ok, but I really hated the story in Partners in Time and nobody can ever force me to go back to the storyboard room in Galaxy. I think the easiest way to improve the story for Galaxy 2 would be to have Bowser kill Peach and take over Mushroom kingdom, because kidnapping is just silly. And if I do have to save a kidnapped princess again, I better have to fight some human/koopa hybrid in the process.
I've been playing a bit of galaxy lately, I'm around 50 or 60 stars in, while I've owned the game since launch. Bowser is doing all these evil things with the power stars, but it has no effect on my game at all. There's no incentive for me to either try to tackle the bosses as quickly as possible or the opposite, try to collect as many start as possible before taking down the bosses. I would love some sort of strategic incentive.
That Super Mario Conquest mentioned above would be just the Mario I would love. Strategically taking down Bowsers empire completely, while defending from counter attacks on me or the mushroom kingdom. And I'm not afraid to sacrifice some Toads in the process.
I think story is very important in games, but only if done well. I hate the stories in the Mario games. How it was done in New Super Mario Bros was ok, but I really hated the story in Partners in Time and nobody can ever force me to go back to the storyboard room in Galaxy. I think the easiest way to improve the story for Galaxy 2 would be to have Bowser kill Peach and take over Mushroom kingdom, because kidnapping is just silly. And if I do have to save a kidnapped princess again, I better have to fight some human/koopa hybrid in the process.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't always agree with Miyamoto's ideas, but he's not wrong about Mario.
Zelda is more of a series that's crying out for a better plot. Part of why that series never seems to take off in my mind is the fact that they never elevate the story beyond a certain level.
Zelda is more of a series that's crying out for a better plot. Part of why that series never seems to take off in my mind is the fact that they never elevate the story beyond a certain level.
MisterHero
Super Member
my favorite Mario story was Yoshi's Island
SMG's Rosalina story was pretty awesome too
SMG's Rosalina story was pretty awesome too
Davey Cakes
Member
Right, and that's an RPG.Tabris said:
The Mario RPGs are the games that deserve the deeper, more involving stories. As far as the platformers are concerned, a "save the princess" premise is really all you need.
Then again, I did appreciate what little story was in SMG, but I'm not really going to complain when SMG2 has even less.
I liked the story bits in SMG, but generally I agree (in regards to Mario, not Zelda). And it's not like EAD Tokyo is inherently hell-bent on shoehorning story in or anything, Jungle Beat's story was "get bananas." I'd be fine with SMG2 keeping a bare-bones narrative.
TheGrayGhost
Banned
i don't think anyone who plays games really cares about story-telling. they're not important. but what is important is the "mythology" of a game. smb3 had memorable locales, enemies, secrets, items, and "mythology." the only significant additions to that package since then have been yoshi (SMW), magikoopas (SMW), koopa clown car (SMW), and Princess Peach's Catle (SM64). take mario to a new world. part of the reason smb3, smw, and yi were so magical because they explored new worlds with new enemies and new secrets.
NeonZ
Member
There were only 3 original bosses though, so replacing them wouldn't be enough to include many Nintendo villains. Besides, an original final boss is fairer for the series involved, rather than one connected to a single character.
However, the part I really dislike about Brawl's story is how it actively hurts the gameplay. Thanks to that "story", the character selection is ridiculously limited throughout the game before the final stages. The cutscenes also didn't flow well with the gameplay at all too.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
NeonZ said:
I think this time the story he writted was what hurted Subspace Emissary (and I will say even vs).
He was the one who decided to put villians, he could have taken the metroid esque part of the game, and do a bigger story with more characters, even if they are not going to be playable.
What he did was just shit, and I dont even want to talk about the final fucking boss. It could have been original, thats for sure, but he just copy pasted a final fantasy final boss.
I would have done a copy paste of the story of Fantasmic (the disney show at the disney parks), obvously with Nintendo characters instad of Disney and it would have been better.
ok, if people want minimal story, they can have it and i'll not complain.
but...
can't they use a different basic plot? why is it always "save the princess"? why can't mario save something else? save the planet, stop bowser's army from wrecking the universe, save his brother, fix the mess bowser caused, help rosalina get home/fix her ship, etc.
there could be a lot of different basic motivations for him to move forward and kick bowser's ass. it doesn't have to be the same shit always.
but...
can't they use a different basic plot? why is it always "save the princess"? why can't mario save something else? save the planet, stop bowser's army from wrecking the universe, save his brother, fix the mess bowser caused, help rosalina get home/fix her ship, etc.
there could be a lot of different basic motivations for him to move forward and kick bowser's ass. it doesn't have to be the same shit always.
evilromero
Member
If they take out the unnecessary tutorial level then we'll be gold. Mario 64 didn't have one and it was by far the most accessible game in the 3D series.
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
I agree with him. For all of its story elements, SMG was still, at its core, "Bowser kidnapped the princess again. Go save her ass. Again." Keep the story elements in the Paper Mario/Mario RPG series.
Zelda, on the other hand, needs MORE story elements, certainly not less.
Zelda, on the other hand, needs MORE story elements, certainly not less.
TheGrayGhost said:
I almost play games exclusively for the story-telling.
If I'm not playing a game for the story-telling, then it's a game I can play with other people (Rockband, Soul Calibur, Gears of War, etc). There are exceptions occasionally where I just enjoy the game for the gameplay but I like to experience my games as a story I'm both watching and playing. It stimulates the brain more than watching a movie for the same entertainment value.