Support NeoGAF

[Mr. Grumpy]

Obviously it wasn't because it wasn't called Dreamcast 2 but I think he has some valid points to make. I'm not sure there's anything particularly new here and it's an age old theory but I still found Modern Vintage Gamer's fifteen minute video interesting.



It covers topics such as Windows CE/Direct X, the 11 exclusive Sega games on the Xbox, playing Sega's Chihiro based games on Xbox, controller design, etc.

 

[luxsol]

Didn't feel like it.

Missing a whole mess of important Japanese games, except for the SEGA games.

Dreamcast had a ton of JRPGs, racing games, arcade beat em ups, and fighters.

Xbox was basically shooters and sport games. Pretty different.

Design wise, they both took after the N64.

 

[CRAIG667]

Design wise, they both took after the N64.

Huh?

No.

 

[luxsol]

Huh?

No.

Four controller ports.
Empty bays to add on gaming accessories to the controller.
A workstation look from the late 90s.

They both tried to have that "party console" feel the N64 had, especially with the type of games they released (N64 was a pretty big deal with FPS games, before the Xbox), which Nintendo tried to maintain with the GCN.

Nintendo is just really influencial and everyone copied them.

 

[Vorg]

Didn't feel like it.

Missing a whole mess of important Japanese games, except for the SEGA games.

Dreamcast had a ton of JRPGs, racing games, arcade beat em ups, and fighters.

Xbox was basically shooters and sport games. Pretty different.

Design wise, they both took after the N64.

Dreamcast didn't have a ton of jrpgs. It was pretty lacking in fact.

 

[luxsol]

Dreamcast didn't have a ton of jrpgs. It was pretty lacking in fact.

Considering how few years it was out, it had a ton, and many of them were great.

... and talking about this makes me realise how many of them I'm missing.

 

[Breakage]

Fascinating video. I learned about a couple of things I wasn't aware of. The Xbox's controller and barrage of Sega exclusives definitely made it feel like the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast.

 

[Koala Driving a Ferrari]

This video has been on my "to watch" list for the last day or so. I'm a huge fan of Modern Vitage Gamer's channel; he produces great content.

I've always considered the OG Xbox to sort of be the spirtual successor to the Dreamcast. Losing the DC so early on in its life was a bitter blow but it felt like the Xbox carried the torch there for a while with all of the great Sega titles at the time and the implementation of analog triggers on the controller.

That said, when looking at the design of the internal hardware or even just the exterior console design, there really isn't any relationship there IMO. Microsoft, rightly, just looked at the market holistically at the time and took the good bits from consoles in the market that they thought worked.

 

[RoboFu]

Didn't feel like it.

Missing a whole mess of important Japanese games, except for the SEGA games.

Dreamcast had a ton of JRPGs, racing games, arcade beat em ups, and fighters.

Xbox was basically shooters and sport games. Pretty different.

Design wise, they both took after the N64.

Dreamcast had a ton of important Japanese games? Like what exactly?

 

[Crew 511A]

Considering how few years it was out, it had a ton, and many of them were great.

... and talking about this makes me realise how many of them I'm missing.

It had Phantasy Star Online and Skies of Arcadia. What am I missing?

 

[bobone]

I've always had that opinion simply because of all the Sega games on the Xbox. They did Jet Set, Shenmue, Crazy Taxi, Toe Jam, Outrun. It certainly felt that way to me, and I loved it.
I'll have to check this guys opinion out later today.


And Skies of Arcadia is the best JRPG ever, so you really don't need more than that.

 

[Daniel Thomas MacInnes]

Was the Xbox really a “Dreamcast 2”? No, but Xbox was a key reason why Sega got out of the hardware business. Imagine if Microsoft had no intention of entering a market that was already dominated by Sony. That would mean there would still be room for a smaller, scrappy fighter like Sega. They would have had time to turn Dreamcast’s fortunes around in Japan and Europe and consolidate its success in the US. We would have had at least a couple more years for the system to grow and mature. Heck, we never even got to see Dreamcast used at full power before it was prematurely retired.

Instead, the imminent arrival of Xbox sealed Sega’s fate. According to the Sam Pettus “Segabase” essays, the decision to get out was already made by December 1999, despite Sega’s American success that season. Too much money had been lost, and with two massively wealthy companies entering the poker match, Sega was effectively bid out of the game. They were lucky to escape with their lives.

Beyond that, many have suggested that Xbox was a spiritual successor to Dreamcast, feom the controller design to the software titles. Sega seemed to prosper on the system, with some excellent franchise sequels. I never understood why Sega put their lot in with an American company who owuld almost certainly never crack the Japanese market; perhaps they were banking on Western success as they had with Genesis and DC. Who knows what the Sega bosses were thinking, other than survival. By 2001, that was their only focus, and it’s a minor miracle the entire company didn’t go bankrupt.

 

[VectorVictor]

Didn't feel like it.

Missing a whole mess of important Japanese games, except for the SEGA games.

Dreamcast had a ton of JRPGs, racing games, arcade beat em ups, and fighters.

Xbox was basically shooters and sport games. Pretty different.

Design wise, they both took after the N64.

Bulls***.

Considering the XBox is remembered by most platform-agnostic gamers for pioneering the first console version of Elder Scrolls and KOTOR 1/2, as well as having good RPGs like Sudeki and putting non-traditional RPGs like Jade Empire or Phantom Dust out, your assertion is just a tad bit off (and, it appears, willfully myopic). Plus, let's not forget that XBox was the place for some of the more prominent fighters, including

• Soul Caliber II
• Dead or Alive 3
• Marvel vs. Capcom 2
• Capcom vs. SNK 2
• Samurai Showdown V
• King of Fighters Series
• Guilty Gear
• Bloody Roar (though this iteration wasn't that good to be honest)

And really, are you going to **** all over the original XBox when it delivered classic Japanese games like

• JSRF
• GunValkyrie
• Panzer Dragoon Orta
• Ninja Gaiden
• Blinx
• Dino Crisis

I get that Microsoft and Xbox may not be your cup of tea, but to say all Xbox has is shooters and sports games is pretty ignorant.

(EDIT): And don't forget about the greatness of Capcom's Steel Battalion games, or it's proprietary controller. That was some mighty fine gaming right there, and last I checked, piloting giant robots doesn't check off the sports category, and calling it a 'shooter' really does these games a disservice.

It had Phantasy Star Online and Skies of Arcadia. What am I missing?

Grandia and TimeStalkers...and didn't they port Pier Solar to the Dreamcast a couple of years ago?

Otherwise, I don't remember many...

 

[TheWatcher]

I thought the Dreamcast was an overrated machine, but it is obvious Xbox borrows quite a bit from it.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Even if the OG Xbox was the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast, it didn't make a blind bit of difference as the PS2 knocked Microsoft, Sega, and Nintendo out the window so to speak....it was THE console to beat...

 

[deriks]

Not the Dreamcast 2, but a 1.5 thing

 

[luxsol]

It had Phantasy Star Online and Skies of Arcadia. What am I missing?

Grandia, Record of Lodoss War, Evolution, EGG, Seventh Cross, Silver, and SEGAGAGAGA and Shenmue, depending on your view of what makes an RPG.

Bulls***.

Considering the XBox is remembered by most platform-agnostic gamers for pioneering the first console version of Elder Scrolls and KOTOR 1/2, as well as having good RPGs like Sudeki and putting non-traditional RPGs like Jade Empire or Phantom Dust out, your assertion is just a tad bit off (and, it appears, willfully myopic). Plus, let's not forge...

Coming as a multi-platform gamer, including PC and being part of various communities that were multi-platforming, none of this made the Xbox stand out. Most everything you said came out on consoles/PC, which doesn't make the Xbox stand out.
I basically viewed it as a poor man's PC back then, because what it did offer over other consoles was access to PC series.
And i guess SEGA and the few odd games that were exclusive, but those rare offerings were just that, rare. It wasn't enough to make it stand out, especially when its most popular games were PC games, sports, and FPS. So out of all this, the Xbox was uniquely the FPS and sport console.

... not sure why i saw it as a sport console, as most of those were also multi-platform too, but i guess because most XBox talk was sports talk?

Versus the Dreamcast stood out because it was the premiere choice for those arcade games (better graphics mostly) and exclusive ones at that. And it's only later that some of the Dreamcast games/series became multiplatform. So at the time, the Dreamcast a very exciting console to own for a mess of reasons.

 

[luxsol]

No, but Xbox was a key reason why Sega got out of the hardware business.

Nah, from what i remember, SEGA simply did not have the money to support the console anymore.
They would have been out of regardless, because they did not have the capital to continue on. They were really expecting the Dreamcast to be successful in the US, where they even lowered the price point despite Japan's complaints, to ensure they could make up for the loss with game sales.

And reading the rest of your post, yep...

It's really silly to call the Xbox the Dreamcast 2, because the Xbox was already in development and pretty much set by the time the Dreamcast came out.
Even as a spiritual successor it fails, because it didn't have enough to make it seem dreamcast-y, even with the few SEGA exclusives it got.

BTW, i have the SEGA exclusives still and never got an XBox to play them.

 

[Vorg]

Grandia, Record of Lodoss War, Evolution, EGG, Seventh Cross, Silver, and SEGAGAGAGA and Shenmue, depending on your view of what makes an RPG.

Not trying to be pedantic or anything, but half those games are not jrpgs, and some aren't even rpgs at all. The dreamcast was great for many types of games, but was severely lacking in rpgs. It was the number one complaint the fans had at the time, because it was an ultra popular genre back then and the competition (ps1) had tons.

 

[luxsol]

I think you're mistaking the N64 with the Dreamcast.

Who said it was lacking in RPGs?
I sure wasn't seeing this complaint way back when and i was online everyday back then, going to thegia, magic box, gaming age, IGN, AOL, ANT, and other gaming sites.
Back then, the Dreamcast was seen as an up and comer, full of promise based on what we were already getting.

To compare it to the PSX, which was already out 6 years by that point to grow its library, is silly.

Also, holy fuck, Gaming Intelligence came back and then died a year later? I really missed out these past few years.

 

[Vorg]

I think you're mistaking the N64 with the Dreamcast.

Who said it was lacking in RPGs?
I sure wasn't seeing this complaint way back when and i was online everyday back then, going to thegia, magic box, gaming age, IGN, AOL, ANT, and other gaming sites.
Back then, the Dreamcast was seen as an up and comer, full of promise based on what we were already getting.
QUOTE]

I think you're mistaking the N64 with the Dreamcast.

Who said it was lacking in RPGs?
I sure wasn't seeing this complaint way back when and i was online everyday back then, going to thegia, magic box, gaming age, IGN, AOL, ANT, and other gaming sites.
Back then, the Dreamcast was seen as an up and comer, full of promise based on what we were already getting.

To compare it to the PSX, which was already out 6 years by that point to grow its library, is silly.

Also, holy fuck, Gaming Intelligence came back and then died a year later? I really missed out these past few years.

I am not mistaking anything. The dreamcast is one of my favorite consoles of all time. It was a constant complaint at the time. Having like 5 rpgs doesn't count as having "many rpgs". Comparing with the competition is fair, of course. Why wouldn't it be.

 

[DonJimbo]

Interesting opinion

 

[DryvBy]

The original Xbox was so awesome and I always felt that way. They had some weird, quirky games and got some exclusives from Sega (House of the Dead 3, Crazy Taxi 3). I'm really glad the Xbox One has original BC now too.

 

[CD'S BAR]

This sentiment has been around for years. Mostly, I guess, from its share of Sega titles, online play, and controller that was the closest thing to a DC controller at the time.

 

[luxsol]

It was a constant complaint at the time. Having like 5 rpgs doesn't count as having "many rpgs".

Where? What part of the internet were you at at this time?

Comparing with the competition is fair, of course. Why wouldn't it be.

Because that's like saying where are all the FPS for the PS2 in 2000? Compared to the N64 it had nothing... so why not just buy a N64? This just sounds like fanboy reasoning, of people just nitpicking a brand new console that IS going to lack in EVERYTHING in its first year.
Even the PS2 didn't have many RPGs in its first year. ...and now i want to play Summoner.

Also, counting things up, DC > PS2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_role-playing_video_games:_2000_to_2001
But pretty unfair to compare a dead console with a brand new one though, right?