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[Mozza]

I think the Wii U failing had more to do with the Wii being so successful due to all the soccer moms and non-gamers getting swept up in the Wii-hype.

Nintendo was always going to lose a lot of the Wii-installbase. The Wii being the least used console that gen was a dead giveaway.

Switch is such a success because Nintendo combined console with handheld, the latter being the market where they're dominating.

I think it was more of a demographic-issue with the Wii U.

Nintendo were new to the casual market with both the Wii U and DS, they just did not count on a lot of these games simply moving onto other things. The situation witht he Switch is a totally different scenario.

 

[havoc00]

gamepass has no future in its current form either. people are actively sick of subscription services.
add the fact that a monthly gaming sub is completely ridiculous idea for huge percent of populution, who play couple of games throughout the gen at most.
hell i'm hardcore and wouldnt stay monthly after i run out of my dirt cheap trick-stacked gamepass years.
wonder how these morons convinced themselves they can have billion subs.

Doesn’t gamepass have like 30 million subs? That’s not to shabby add in ps plus that’s probably what like another 40 million subs? A lot of people sub

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Okay I'll try it. I assume we are starting from right before the Bethesda acquisition. I would rather give back half the money to start 5 years earlier, but here it goes. 75 billion.

We're going to gear up to skip next generation, and come back after that one with a rebrand and some type of hardware be it console, VR headset or whatever that is a fit in that market. Not just come out and try to be PlayStation all over again.

In the meantime:

Revisions of the series consoles will has to extend all the way to 3036 or something like that. That includes a few pro increments. As games come out that can't run on the series s, or eventually the series x, I allow those systems to only play streaming versions of the games. Suffer some backlash for this, but those systems will be quite old. Cut the ad spend, funding, etc. put Xbox down softly.

In the meantime, throw some them billions at the r&d department so were ready to have what the market wants in 2036.

Have MS start two new publishers as subsidiaries. We need to get our studios working as far away from this fuckshop as possible. Hire consultants to plan and staff these up, because nobody at ms can do this right for whatever reason.

Current studios are all up for sale as we will be shifting development to these two publishers. If one of them doesn't want to buy you, and nobody else wants to buy you, your ass is grass.

Now just the ip's are owned by xbox games. There is no xgs.

Get those publishers up and running. But some studios, start some studios, and find some talent. Remember this is started with the help of expert consultants so that our own bad decision machine can be further removed Keep Phil away from this place. They just need to each make half of what Sony makes. It's not like we are trying to build an Activision here. At this point they have 15 years to totally take over the reigns. In the meantime, the various teams under xgs better shape up if they was to be purchased when the for sale sign goes up.

Going to have to do something about game pass. It's not realistic to skip all the game sales of these expensive games. Going to have to find some sleazy ass way to walk back the day one promise and give the fans a mantra to explain why it's not just okay but great. They can make an ear-splitting echo chamber so that probloggers can pick it up the narrative. Good thing we're microsoft!

And that will be our last gaslighting campaign. Shut all that down and let the cult flame out as they asphyxiate with ever less exciting series revisions. That stuff has unintended consequences. It ended up making Xbox look like a club nobody wanted to be in. Besides, it's wrong and God knows we could use a bit of karma right now.

So in short, ride xbs through the next generation, de emphasize game pass, keep making your cruddy games while the two publishers spin up then be ready with a new hardware brand for the ps7 era, and most importantly don't assume it will be "the Playstation killer" and start this whole saga all over again.

I know nothing about business and I am only hitting post because all the time I spent writing that.

If MS did this, they would just give up with consoles altogether. What would be the point anymore if they could have 2 successful publishing labels and make a ton of profit without the overhead of worrying about a console R&D, manufacturing, marketing, distribution etc?

Yes its true but we know how the Wii fell of a cliff and the Wii U despite the name bombed. It really was a fad, not something they could build upon for years to come. Which is why Xbox One crashed and burned too. If they did read the market well, or didn't have Don Mattrick perhaps, they would've launched the Xbox without it for 100 less and perhaps put up a better fight at least.

But Mattrick's the main reason XBO had an arguably better exclusives lineup than PS4 for the first two years (at least until Bloodborne released).

gamepass has no future in its current form either. people are actively sick of subscription services.
add the fact that a monthly gaming sub is completely ridiculous idea for huge percent of populution, who play couple of games throughout the gen at most.
hell i'm hardcore and wouldnt stay monthly after i run out of my dirt cheap trick-stacked gamepass years.
wonder how these morons convinced themselves they can have billion subs.

Game Pass might have a chance if they figure a way to tie it with the cable and satellite providers. As a sub service to push consoles tho, yeah it's stalled and prob a dead end. As a sub service on other computing devices it has to deal with Steam on PC and iOS (Apple Arcade) and Android (Google Play) on mobile. All of them are as entrenched in their spaces as Sony & Nintendo are in traditional console gaming.

Microsoft would need a space where there's no strong, entrenched competition, so I guess they'd need to get creative about cable & satellite television stuff. But they'd have to adjust how they approach the process of making games to work with that. Dunno if they have the means to pull it off (or make it work).

I think hardware is stuck in a loop that no abount of billions can fix.

PS5 was so hot because people bought a lot of consoles and games on said consoles for PS4. For 2 years PS5 was not only the next-gen machine, but a good PS4 Very Pro. Physical and digital libraries that are 99% compatable is not something you can esily throw out, especially with the current economy.

Now look at EU XBS/PS5 ratios, hell, even at NPD. No CoD will force people to anandon their hoarded libraries after the PS4/PS5 gen. Microsoft chose a crucial console cycles to lose and hardware will never recover from these miscalculations.

Well, MS will probably never mount a 360-like presence in gaming ever again, certainly not globally or even in the US & UK (where 360 led PS3 like 2:1 if not more).

But if they decided to go more fully 3P/multiplat with their software releases, move Xbox hardware off traditional console business models to PC hardware business models, change Xbox consoles to be more like console-ized gaming PCs & laptops, and so forth....I think that could help their gaming side actually prosper.

They wouldn't have to keep getting compared to Sony & Nintendo all the time (and losing), they could increase revenue and profits, cut down on operating expenses, do regular hardware refreshes for Xbox, and work out a way to get Game Pass on PlayStation & Nintendo (since they'd no longer be competing with them in console space).

So many benefits with very few drawbacks.

Sony gets the casual audience with single player cinematic games.

GaaS is for hardcore no lifers or teenagers. I remember back in the day Destiny 2 was basically a second job.

But the biggest revenue games are GaaS; Fortnite, Apex Legends, LOL, WOW, Counterstrike 2 etc. They can't be making that money from only hardcore no-lifers or broke teenagers.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Apple came already..

also, they should just buy Sony. They are already using some Sony hardware on their cash cow and all that gaming IP from PlayStation will help Apple’s gaming push.

It would have to be a hostile takeover, and the companies are too different. Cheaper for Apple to slow walk into the space the way they are now.

Until Macs start working in the business environment I don’t ever see them really breaking through.

Agreed. Although Apple has been much more aggressive lately. They want consumers in their ecosystem for everything and have pioneered the Services space. Couple of great business books out there on recurring revenue models and Apple that give some insight on what they’re trying to do long-term (and everyone else is now attempting to catch up, like Microsoft).

GAF members are in the bubble thinking that for Microsoft, this is about competing with SNY or Nintendo, when it’s really about competing with Apple and Google.

Phil Spencer’s job is to keep the division profitable along with growth, of which it appears he is failing (although we don’t get number from MS).

 

[Crayon]

If MS did this, they would just give up with consoles altogether. What would be the point anymore if they could have 2 successful publishing labels and make a ton of profit without the overhead of worrying about a console R&D, manufacturing, marketing, distribution etc?

The job was to save the console with 75 billion and chances are I did at least as good as Phil.

 

[Montauk]

Yeh buddy!

I own a Series X (and years of GP) but that is honestly so unbelievably cringe and obnoxious that it makes me want to throw my Xbox into the sea.

Can somebody remind me what this freak is called? I checked out his channel before but I’ve forgotten what it’s called.

Man, I was a fan of Xbox and then the 360 but I was never a FANBOY or brand cultist and I’ve always hated any kind of fanboy.

 

[havoc00]

I own a Series X (and years of GP) but that is honestly so unbelievably cringe and on obnoxious that it makes me want to throw my Xbox into the sea.

 

[GHG]

"I'm thankful that I'm able to put food on the table"

Bruh

 

[King Dazzar]

I've only had a few regrets in my life. But pressing play on that is definitely one of them!!

 

[Thirty7ven]

It was embarrassing. The two of them are an absolute joke and I'm frustrated they're even on LSM.

I would increase my Patreon if they would ditch the entire show and make a catch-all, platform agnostic one (to go alongside Sacred Symbols and Punching Up). Xbox simply isn't worthy of having a show if the only people you can get to host it are shill clowns.

I wish Defining Duke tried to copy Sacred symbols which has PlayStation guy, but then Destin and Chris are actually also Nintendo and Xbox guys.

Instead we get Matty Excuses and Corporate cog talking delusion for 4 hours a week.

 

[semiconscious]

i predict that in 12 years, everyone on earth will own at least 1 xbox. you read it here first...

 

[ByWatterson]

I wish Defining Duke tried to copy Sacred symbols which has PlayStation guy, but then Destin and Chris are actually also Nintendo and Xbox guys.

Instead we get Matty Excuses and Corporate cog talking delusion for 4 hours a week.

It's just awful. I have to believe Colin mostly agrees but doesn't want to be shitty.

However, he has said there's a new show coming next year, and that other shows have to make room. Here's hoping!

 

[ByWatterson]

 

[havoc00]

day one mlb them boys payyy 70!!!

 

[Humdinger]

The fact is Xbox best sales years was with Kinect

[referring to 2011]

Ah....ok. Yeah, lots of folks loved motion controls that gen.

It was also the first year of that gen. Intro years often have booming sales, because of pent-up demand. Also, despite the face plant of a launch, the Xbox One rode the good-will coattails of the Xbox 360. There were a ton of devoted fans, especially in the US, happy to overlook the bad launch and "jump in" anyway.

edit: Never mind, I thought the Xbox One launched in 2011, but it launched two years later. My bad.

 

[havoc00]

I've only had a few regrets in my life. But pressing play on that is definitely one of them!!

the beat is kinda catchy

 

[Humdinger]

Microsoft chose a crucial console cycles to lose and hardware will never recover from these miscalculations.

Phil Spencer made the same point, as you probably know. It's not something I thought about before he said it, but it makes sense. Once people are invested in a digital library, it's going to be hard for them to give that up. People say "but you don't need to give it up, you can just buy a second console," but only a small percentage of gamers own both a PS5 and an XSX.

 

[onQ123]

[referring to 2011]


It was also the first year of that gen. Intro years often have booming sales, because of pent-up demand. Also, despite the face plant of a launch, the Xbox One rode the good-will coattails of the Xbox 360. There were a ton of devoted fans, especially in the US, happy to overlook the bad launch and "jump in" anyway.

Xbox 360 came out in 2005 & Kinect came out 5 years later & gave Xbox their best console sales ever

 

[Humdinger]

Xbox 360 came out in 2005 & Kinect came out 5 years later & gave Xbox their best console sales ever

Oh, I was thinking the Xbox One launched in 2011. It launched 2013. My mistake.

That gives us some insight as to why they thought Kinect was worth bundling in the Xbox One -- though in retrospect, of course, that was a bad decision.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

There are many ways around this, Microsoft could go with timed exclusivity, Like Sony have done many times, of course nobody complained about that.

I mean, Microsoft has also had timed exclusivity on games (lets not get amnesia about the 360 days). I'm sure you complained, right?

Besides, Xbox isn't PlayStation. Skipping COD's largest fanbase, at any point, would be stupid. Fortunately for everyone, there is a 10-year contract on the line, so they couldn't do what you propose anytime soon.

 

[ByWatterson]

day one mlb them boys payyy 70!!!

I ran all the science and you have tested positive for being the absolute worst person.

 

[havoc00]

I ran all the science and you have tested positive for being the absolute worst person.

 

[onQ123]

Oh, I was thinking the Xbox One launched in 2011. It launched 2013. My mistake.

That gives us some insight as to why they thought Kinect was worth bundling in the Xbox One -- though in retrospect, of course, that was a bad decision.

It wasn't a bad idea it was one of the best ideas Xbox had but Xbox fans couldn't take it that PS4 was more powerful than Xbox One & they acted out like children.

Xbox actually had the headstart on what became Alexa & Hey Google & they got punked out of that spot by upset fans lol

 

[Humdinger]

It wasn't a bad idea it was one of the best ideas Xbox had but Xbox fans couldn't take it that PS4 was more powerful than Xbox One & they acted out like children.

Xbox actually had the headstart on what became Alexa & Hey Google & they got punked out of that spot by upset fans lol

Oh, I disagree with that. Mandatory inclusion of Kinect was a terrible decision. Not only did it force Kinect down the throats of people who didn't want Kinect, it boosted the price $100. MS got a lot of negative backlash for it. That's why they reversed course quickly.

 

[twilo99]

It would have to be a hostile takeover, and the companies are too different. Cheaper for Apple to slow walk into the space the way they are now.

Yes its not realistic but I do think it works for Apple since they can use a lot of the good hardware Sony makes for their own lineup

 

[twilo99]

Besides, Xbox isn't PlayStation. Skipping COD's largest fanbase, at any point, would be stupid. Fortunately for everyone, there is a 10-year contract on the line, so they couldn't do what you propose anytime soon.

I still don't understand why the clearly dominant player in the market needed so many reassurances about a single game.. there was so much fuss about the whole thing in general where, as you can clearly see, xbox is pretty much dead already

 

[adamsapple]

 

[bender]

Not even adamsapple could defen....never mind.

 

[havoc00]

 

[adamsapple]

 

[MasterCornholio]

What do you call the opposite of marketing?

Because that's what I feel this does. Instead of bringing people to the product it scares them away.

Microsoft should have never paid for this.

 

[thismeinteil]

Sony still bringing the Pro and Xbox targeting around double the Pro's power about 12-18 months after Pro comes out

Random thoughts (that I first said about 3 months ago )

The problem is MS honestly believes that an early headstart is why they competed well with PS3, and the PS4's power advantage is why the XBO failed against it. However, the real reason the 360 did so well is that Sony screwed up the first few years of that gen. Expensive, hard to develop for HW and a lack of exclusive games at launch, plus far worse multiplats for the first couple of years til devs got the hang of developing on it. Then, Sony came back swinging with the PS4 and knocked it out of the park, while Xbox seemed to give up after the first couple of years.

This gen should show MS that a perceived power advantage doesn't really matter. Especially when they will hold that crown for like a year til the PS6 comes out? And Sony will make sure they announce it before the NeXbox is launched, taking the winds out of its sails. Their biggest problem is Sony isn't looking to make the same mistakes as they did with PS3 and we're already at a point where people's digital gaming libraries are becoming huge. As Phil said himself, they lost the worst gen to lose. And they're losing it badly.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Phil Spencer made the same point, as you probably know. It's not something I thought about before he said it, but it makes sense. Once people are invested in a digital library, it's going to be hard for them to give that up. People say "but you don't need to give it up, you can just buy a second console," but only a small percentage of gamers own both a PS5 and an XSX.

What percent of people really goes back and plays older games? I'll grant you that it might be more of a psychological result, but I just don't know how truly important this aspect is.

Most of the SP games don't end up getting replayed often and the MP games are generally useless/replaced by new more modern games.

I think the more important things for retention are the controller familiarity, gamertags, friends list, and and progression/game history (achievements).

I think they'd do really well to bring people over to one ecosystem or another if they released a version of each other's controller.

 

[Ronin_7]

Sony gets the casual audience with single player cinematic games.

GaaS is for hardcore no lifers or teenagers. I remember back in the day Destiny 2 was basically a second job.

I used to play ALOT of online gaming in my High School years yeah.

Now i only play Fortnite on very rare occasions...

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I still don't understand why the clearly dominant player in the market needed so many reassurances about a single game.. there was so much fuss about the whole thing in general where, as you can clearly see, xbox is pretty much dead already

I think there were more layers to it, but revenue loss was likely a bigger player than unit sales.

 

[Elysium44]

I still don't understand why the clearly dominant player in the market needed so many reassurances about a single game.. there was so much fuss about the whole thing in general where, as you can clearly see, xbox is pretty much dead already

Sony wisely looks at the big picture, they don't assume because everything is fine today it must inevitably be fine for the future. They make sure to always be thinking about whether they are building the right foundation and sowing the seeds of future success rather than taking it for granted. Lots of companies in history used to be dominant, got complacent and then got blindsided.

 

[jroc74]

I still don't understand why the clearly dominant player in the market needed so many reassurances about a single game.. there was so much fuss about the whole thing in general where, as you can clearly see, xbox is pretty much dead already

Ask MS and Blackberry how did it feel underestimating the iPhone when it launched. Execs from both companies literally laughed when asked about it before it launched.

A good company should never underestimate a situation like CoD.

MS acquired ABK for a reason.
Sony protested the hell out of that acquisition for a reason.

Sony wisely looks at the big picture, they don't assume because everything is fine today it must inevitably be fine for the future. They make sure to always be thinking about whether they are building the right foundation and sowing the seeds of future success rather than taking it for granted. Lots of companies in history used to be dominant, got complacent and then got blindsided.

Exactly.

 

[Topher]

 

[Bernoulli]

 

[Humdinger]

What percent of people really goes back and plays older games? I'll grant you that it might be more of a psychological result, but I just don't know how truly important this aspect is.

Most of the SP games don't end up getting replayed often and the MP games are generally useless/replaced by new more modern games.

I think a lot of people do, although I don't know the exact percentage. For instance, MS put out some BC stats that showed the vast majority of people played at least one BC game. I play plenty of older games, even if it's just a little taste.

Apart from that, though -- and maybe this is what you meant by "psychological result" -- the idea that your entire digital library will just vanish if you change consoles, that is a big impediment. It's different with physical games, because you can at least sell physical games on ebay and get something in return, but with a digital library, everything just vanishes in a puff of smoke if you leave that ecosystem.

I think the more important things for retention are the controller familiarity, gamertags, friends list, and and progression/game history (achievements).

You make a good point about friends lists. I'm an SP-only gamer, so I didn't think of that, but you're right. If you play a lot of MP games, then your friends list is going to be very important. If you switch consoles, you'll lose most of those "friends."

I personally don't care about achievements, and I can adapt easily enough to the different controllers, but I guess those might be factors for some.

 

[twilo99]

Ask MS and Blackberry how did it feel underestimating the iPhone when it launched. Execs from both companies literally laughed when asked about it before it launched.

A good company should never underestimate a situation like CoD.

MS acquired ABK for a reason.
Sony protested the hell out of that acquisition for a reason..

Are you comparing Call of Duty to the to what the iPhone did to the mobile phone industry in 2007?

 

[m14]

Ask MS and Blackberry how did it feel underestimating the iPhone when it launched. Execs from both companies literally laughed when asked about it before it launched.

A good company should never underestimate a situation like CoD.

MS acquired ABK for a reason.
Sony protested the hell out of that acquisition for a reason.


Exactly.

This is especially interesting because Sony currently have no first party FPS games. They've overlooked that genre for quite a long time now.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

They've overlooked that genre for quite a long time now.

no, they didn't

 

[m14]

no, they didn't

You must still getting a lot of enjoyment out of Killzone Shadow Fall.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

This is especially interesting because Sony currently have no first party FPS games. They've overlooked that genre for quite a long time now.

They literally haven't. They spent years trying to make Killzone, Resistance, SOCOM, etc. a thing and nobody wanted them, they just wanted Call of Duty. Sony gave up on making a first party FPS franchise after trying for over a decade and accomplishing nothing. You want to blame someone, don't blame Sony, blame gamers for only wanting Call of Duty.

 

[m14]

They literally haven't. They spent years trying to make Killzone, Resistance, SOCOM, etc. a thing and nobody wanted them, they just wanted Call of Duty. Sony gave up on making a first party FPS franchise after trying for over a decade and accomplishing nothing. You want to blame someone, don't blame Sony, blame gamers for only wanting Call of Duty.

They literally did. Sony have gone a full decade without releasing a first party FPS game. I wasn't claiming that they had never made attempts in that genre.

Halo was at its commercial peak during those years too, so it wasn't just that the market only wanted COD.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You must still getting a lot of enjoyment out of Killzone Shadow Fall.

sony didn't "overlooked" FPS. Sonys's FPS "situation" comes from the market and economics itself.

 

[m14]

sony didn't "overlooked" FPS. Sonys's FPS "situation" comes from the market and economics itself.

Yes, they became totally dependent on a third party publisher for a very important genre.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

I am reporting you, bastard!

 

[havoc00]

I am reporting you, bastard!