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Xbox Series X and S Sales Have Collapsed in Europe

They literally haven't. They spent years trying to make Killzone, Resistance, SOCOM, etc. a thing and nobody wanted them, they just wanted Call of Duty. Sony gave up on making a first party FPS franchise after trying for over a decade and accomplishing nothing. You want to blame someone, don't blame Sony, blame gamers for only wanting Call of Duty.

I think that doesn't tell the whole story.

  • Sony's FPS were more heavily focused on campaign rather than MP
  • By the time online gaming really reached its zenith Sony had found success in single-player games
    • MW2 came out in 2009
    • Uncharted 2 came out in 2009
  • Killzone 3 and Resistance 3 both came out in 2011 and both were exclusive to PS3, which didn't have as built out of an online community
    • Even Killzone Shadow Fall (2013) had pretty limited MP. Both franchises were more popular on PlayStation until Modern Warfare 2.
  • It just wasn't a major focus of the PS3 and FPS became more popular on PS4 because the PS4 outperformed the X1 and Halo was in decline. All the major FPS were on both systems.
Timing matters a lot, especially when games take a long time to develop these days.

Had Sony shifted to PC earlier, Resistance and Killzone probably would have been larger franchises and probably would have had larger MP focus, but it's not a story of failure. Guerrilla's pivot to Horizon and Insomniac's pivot to Spider-Man has proven extremely successful, but that should be a reminder that these Sony studios can in fact find success with pivots.

Sony has a major test in front of it with Concord. They bought Firewalk, they're former Bungie staff, and it fits an obvious need. Them buying Firewalk, but not Deviation Games may ultimately make sense given that Deviation's project was seemingly cancelled.

A lot of people want to see SOCOM, but with Zipper closing, you studio has to WANT to develop SOCOM. Maybe if Convallaria is well received, Sony might want Loong Force working on a follow-up.

But Sony has a multitude of MP games in development now, their release will be littered over the next few years.
 
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Yes, they became totally dependent on a third party publisher for a very important genre.
Very important in the West, Halo had already lost its luster, and Sony had partnerships with Destiny and CoD. The cost of making AAA games (money, workforce, technology, and time) is bigger than ever.

If Guerrilla were forced to continue making FPS and compete with Sony's own partners in an already saturated and highly competitive genre, it would have a negative impact on everyone

Guerrilla was given the opportunity to create a new IP instead. which was better for the studio and sony itself. Now they have one the best engines in the biz.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Are you comparing Call of Duty to the to what the iPhone did to the mobile phone industry in 2007?
Read this reply and maybe it will make sense:
Sony wisely looks at the big picture, they don't assume because everything is fine today it must inevitably be fine for the future. They make sure to always be thinking about whether they are building the right foundation and sowing the seeds of future success rather than taking it for granted. Lots of companies in history used to be dominant, got complacent and then got blindsided.
 

m14

Member
Very important in the West, Halo had already lost its luster, and Sony had partnerships with Destiny and CoD. The cost of making AAA games (money, workforce, technology, and time) is bigger than ever.

If Guerrilla were forced to continue making FPS and compete with Sony's own partners in an already saturated and highly competitive genre, it would have a negative impact on everyone

Guerrilla was given the opportunity to create a new IP instead. which was better for the studio and sony itself. Now they have one the best engines in the biz.
That's a good explanation.
 
Again... We are talking about a better way to have spent what they have already spent.

I simply don't feel buying Activision and bethesda was a better use of that $75B. If they had that much to spend coming into this gen, then they could have used $35B to subsidize 90M XSX consoles, and have 90M people with Xboxes in under two years. buying COD, Sarfeid,RE4....etc and pain for amepas. Even if only 2/3rd of those 90M subscribe to game pass. Oubid Sony on every single third-party deal...etc

If they had done that, I believe it would have done more for Xbox than what they have done with that money.



Nothing illegal about subsidizing your hardware.
Price dumping is illegal- at least in my country.
 

Alan Wake

Member
Yes its true but we know how the Wii fell of a cliff and the Wii U despite the name bombed. It really was a fad, not something they could build upon for years to come. Which is why Xbox One crashed and burned too. If they did read the market well, or didn't have Don Mattrick perhaps, they would've launched the Xbox without it for 100 less and perhaps put up a better fight at least.
That's just part of the problem. The broader entertainment focus, the "300 million customers" approach, was perhaps the main issue with the strategy that basically sent Xbox One out to die.
 

Alan Wake

Member
I think hardware is stuck in a loop that no abount of billions can fix.

PS5 was so hot because people bought a lot of consoles and games on said consoles for PS4. For 2 years PS5 was not only the next-gen machine, but a good PS4 Very Pro. Physical and digital libraries that are 99% compatable is not something you can esily throw out, especially with the current economy.

Now look at EU XBS/PS5 ratios, hell, even at NPD. No CoD will force people to anandon their hoarded libraries after the PS4/PS5 gen. Microsoft chose a crucial console cycles to lose and hardware will never recover from these miscalculations.
This is basically what Spencer said in that infamous interview. They'll keep trying by spending billions of dollars, though.
 

Woopah

Member
Crazy Black Friday deals didn't do anything for Xbox.

Unsure about the UK but Europe was a failure.
I think we'll have to wait for more data before we know for sure.

At this point, I'd even say that being flat vs. last year would be a good result for Xbox Series. Given how it's performed in the rest of 2023.
 
Last edited:

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I think we'll have to wait for more data before we know for sure.

At this point, I'd even say that being flat vs. last year would be a good result for Xbox Series. Given how it's performed in the rest of 2023.

I agree. If they are flat VS last year its a pretty good result but if they are considerably down over BF last year...its bad times!
 
Last edited:


This video tells you everything you need to know about the state of gaming journalism. What's the subject? Xbox down 52% YOY in Europe, what is the discussion?

  • Oh it doesn't include Germany and the UK
  • Xbox was never big in Europe
    • But I guess this is YOY, so maybe it's still a bad trend
  • Xbox is focused on more than console now, so the platform is actually growing, so the decline is actually good
  • How much better they think the 360 is than the ps3...
  • Sony is also doing badly, even though they're having a ton of success
    • Also, Sony hasn't earned any of their success
  • Sony isn't making quirky small Japanese games anymore, so they're bad

18 minute video about Microsoft declining massively in the 3rd year in the console cycle and a quarter of the video is on how it doesn't matter, how xbox is actually doing well, how great the 360 is, and the finally how this is actually bad for sony...

Not sure what is going on between DF and Chris Dring, but people are absolutely bending over backwards to make themselves look like clowns these days.

Digital Foundry like Chris Dring, knows that the "console wars" pay their checks. They have an inherent interest in boosting Xbox even if it does Xbox no real favors. This was one of the most ridiculous videos I've seen from a group that generally takes themselves pretty seriously.

Criticism is healthy and natural. It's how we grow and improve.

What the video should have consisted of was a real explanation as to why Xbox is struggling and the points are as clear as day

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass
  • The controller doesn't have haptics
  • Still lacking in Japanese games
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011
  • Poor studio management and franchise management
    • Bungie to 343i
    • Coalition
    • Playground Games
    • Turn10/Forza
    • Rare
    • Lionhead
    • Tango Gameworks
    • Arkane/Redfall
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games
    • Games take so long to develop, acquiring a publisher isn't likely to make any short-term gains
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member


This video tells you everything you need to know about the state of gaming journalism. What's the subject? Xbox down 52% YOY in Europe, what is the discussion?

  • Oh it doesn't include Germany and the UK
  • Xbox was never big in Europe
    • But I guess this is YOY, so maybe it's still a bad trend
  • Xbox is focused on more than console now, so the platform is actually growing, so the decline is actually good
  • How much better they think the 360 is than the ps3...
  • Sony is also doing badly, even though they're having a ton of success
    • Also, Sony hasn't earned any of their success
  • Sony isn't making quirky small Japanese games anymore, so they're bad

18 minute video about Microsoft declining massively in the 3rd year in the console cycle and a quarter of the video is on how it doesn't matter, how xbox is actually doing well, how great the 360 is, and the finally how this is actually bad for sony...

Not sure what is going on between DF and Chris Dring, but people are absolutely bending over backwards to make themselves look like clowns these days.

Digital Foundry like Chris Dring, knows that the "console wars" pay their checks. They have an inherent interest in boosting Xbox even if it does Xbox no real favors. This was one of the most ridiculous videos I've seen from a group that generally takes themselves pretty seriously.

Criticism is healthy and natural. It's how we grow and improve.

What the video should have consisted of was a real explanation as to why Xbox is struggling and the points are as clear as day

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass
  • The controller doesn't have haptics
  • Still lacking in Japanese games
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011
  • Poor studio management and franchise management
    • Bungie to 343i
    • Coalition
    • Playground Games
    • Turn10/Forza
    • Rare
    • Lionhead
    • Tango Gameworks
    • Arkane/Redfall
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games
    • Games take so long to develop, acquiring a publisher isn't likely to make any short-term gains

Damage Cuntrol by this wascally wabbit.
 

Daneel Elijah

Gold Member
Digital Foundry like Chris Dring, knows that the "console wars" pay their checks. They have an inherent interest in boosting Xbox even if it does Xbox no real favors. This was one of the most ridiculous videos I've seen from a group that generally takes themselves pretty seriously.
The comments on that video are a lot like what you said in your post. So even if they try to defend Xbox it does not seems to work in that case. I think that like their distaste of the PS5 Pro they will warm up to this state of affairs and have another video in a few weeks/ months where they will be more concerned about Xbox sales. But we had those discussions since Sony managed to flood the market with PS5 consoles. Each month will be another occasion to talk about Xbox sales and I am curious to see what will happen in the next few months. Will Microsoft do like Disney and simply stop giving info? Hide it even harder? Will they talk about E3 2024 even earlier than last year? Or will Activision games entering Gamepass help them more than expected? If, for example, they decide to put COD on Gamepass in a few months, that would help.
 


This video tells you everything you need to know about the state of gaming journalism. What's the subject? Xbox down 52% YOY in Europe, what is the discussion?

  • Oh it doesn't include Germany and the UK
  • Xbox was never big in Europe
    • But I guess this is YOY, so maybe it's still a bad trend
  • Xbox is focused on more than console now, so the platform is actually growing, so the decline is actually good
  • How much better they think the 360 is than the ps3...
  • Sony is also doing badly, even though they're having a ton of success
    • Also, Sony hasn't earned any of their success
  • Sony isn't making quirky small Japanese games anymore, so they're bad

18 minute video about Microsoft declining massively in the 3rd year in the console cycle and a quarter of the video is on how it doesn't matter, how xbox is actually doing well, how great the 360 is, and the finally how this is actually bad for sony...

Not sure what is going on between DF and Chris Dring, but people are absolutely bending over backwards to make themselves look like clowns these days.

Digital Foundry like Chris Dring, knows that the "console wars" pay their checks. They have an inherent interest in boosting Xbox even if it does Xbox no real favors. This was one of the most ridiculous videos I've seen from a group that generally takes themselves pretty seriously.

Criticism is healthy and natural. It's how we grow and improve.

What the video should have consisted of was a real explanation as to why Xbox is struggling and the points are as clear as day

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass
  • The controller doesn't have haptics
  • Still lacking in Japanese games
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011
  • Poor studio management and franchise management
    • Bungie to 343i
    • Coalition
    • Playground Games
    • Turn10/Forza
    • Rare
    • Lionhead
    • Tango Gameworks
    • Arkane/Redfall
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games
    • Games take so long to develop, acquiring a publisher isn't likely to make any short-term gains

i4v7bQD.png
RmnP8AB.png
 
Last edited:

Mr.ODST

Member


This video tells you everything you need to know about the state of gaming journalism. What's the subject? Xbox down 52% YOY in Europe, what is the discussion?

  • Oh it doesn't include Germany and the UK
  • Xbox was never big in Europe
    • But I guess this is YOY, so maybe it's still a bad trend
  • Xbox is focused on more than console now, so the platform is actually growing, so the decline is actually good
  • How much better they think the 360 is than the ps3...
  • Sony is also doing badly, even though they're having a ton of success
    • Also, Sony hasn't earned any of their success
  • Sony isn't making quirky small Japanese games anymore, so they're bad

18 minute video about Microsoft declining massively in the 3rd year in the console cycle and a quarter of the video is on how it doesn't matter, how xbox is actually doing well, how great the 360 is, and the finally how this is actually bad for sony...

Not sure what is going on between DF and Chris Dring, but people are absolutely bending over backwards to make themselves look like clowns these days.

Digital Foundry like Chris Dring, knows that the "console wars" pay their checks. They have an inherent interest in boosting Xbox even if it does Xbox no real favors. This was one of the most ridiculous videos I've seen from a group that generally takes themselves pretty seriously.

Criticism is healthy and natural. It's how we grow and improve.

What the video should have consisted of was a real explanation as to why Xbox is struggling and the points are as clear as day

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass
  • The controller doesn't have haptics
  • Still lacking in Japanese games
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011
  • Poor studio management and franchise management
    • Bungie to 343i
    • Coalition
    • Playground Games
    • Turn10/Forza
    • Rare
    • Lionhead
    • Tango Gameworks
    • Arkane/Redfall
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games
    • Games take so long to develop, acquiring a publisher isn't likely to make any short-term gains

Your post reads to me as "wahhh they didn't talk shit about Xbox and gave Sony some criticism" so lets break this down out of your Sony fanboyism.

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass - Xbox is an ecosystem not just a console anymore, Revenue comes from GP and game sales on Steam, Microsoft Store and Xbox Console
  • The controller doesn't have haptics - Wtf is this for an argument, PS5 haptics are nice but do you moan Nintendo didn't include haptics in their pro controller etc, but if MS did it then its stupidly bad
  • Still lacking in Japanese games - GP now starting to get day one big JRPG franchises like P3 Remake, Persona Collection etc, Agree there isn't enough but its not like they have not provided some.
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011 - Forza Horizon, Halo Infinite (last few months), Hi-Fi Rush, Starfield (while not perfect)
  • Poor studio management and franchise management - I agree with this because their "hands off" approach which means no quality control, Halo Infinite is proof they are fixing this with the 343i Mixup and the games in an excellent state now.
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games - Games are being produced a lot of them we sort of know about (Oblivion Remake/remastered etc) .. while some might of been developed while MS purchased them there is clear indication of new titles being developed after the MS acquisition.
While I know MS has shit studio management etc, the hyperbowl of latching onto anything to shit on people who enjoy Xbox or the obsession with console sales, don't you think MS know they have failed in the console space, just smells of someone using excuses to try and justify their purchase of a PlayStation and to shit on anybody who enjoys Xbox.
 


This video tells you everything you need to know about the state of gaming journalism. What's the subject? Xbox down 52% YOY in Europe, what is the discussion?

  • Oh it doesn't include Germany and the UK
  • Xbox was never big in Europe
    • But I guess this is YOY, so maybe it's still a bad trend
  • Xbox is focused on more than console now, so the platform is actually growing, so the decline is actually good
  • How much better they think the 360 is than the ps3...
  • Sony is also doing badly, even though they're having a ton of success
    • Also, Sony hasn't earned any of their success
  • Sony isn't making quirky small Japanese games anymore, so they're bad

18 minute video about Microsoft declining massively in the 3rd year in the console cycle and a quarter of the video is on how it doesn't matter, how xbox is actually doing well, how great the 360 is, and the finally how this is actually bad for sony...

Not sure what is going on between DF and Chris Dring, but people are absolutely bending over backwards to make themselves look like clowns these days.

Digital Foundry like Chris Dring, knows that the "console wars" pay their checks. They have an inherent interest in boosting Xbox even if it does Xbox no real favors. This was one of the most ridiculous videos I've seen from a group that generally takes themselves pretty seriously.

Criticism is healthy and natural. It's how we grow and improve.

What the video should have consisted of was a real explanation as to why Xbox is struggling and the points are as clear as day

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass
  • The controller doesn't have haptics
  • Still lacking in Japanese games
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011
  • Poor studio management and franchise management
    • Bungie to 343i
    • Coalition
    • Playground Games
    • Turn10/Forza
    • Rare
    • Lionhead
    • Tango Gameworks
    • Arkane/Redfall
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games
    • Games take so long to develop, acquiring a publisher isn't likely to make any short-term gains

Of course. But when you look at DF you realize they are simply a legacy mainstream media like CNN, MSNBC and the likes. And like mainstream medias they are propaganda tools for the big corporations like Microsoft. From the start DF and the framerate analysis has being created by Leadbetter to support X360 against PS3 (back then PS3 games ran very badly against X360), from the start it was MS against Sony, and it's still is in the head of Leadbetter.

And like all legacy mainstream medias without subsidizing from the big corporations (sponsored videos and such...) they would die because of more fair competition from NXGamer, VGTech and others which are not paid for.
 

jm89

Member
I think we'll have to wait for more data before we know for sure.

At this point, I'd even say that being flat vs. last year would be a good result for Xbox Series. Given how it's performed in the rest of 2023.
Seems still awful if they stay flat this year. Especially with more stock and bigger game releases from them. But yeah considering the rest of this year, maybe that's all they can really muster.
 
Last edited:

SkylineRKR

Member


This video tells you everything you need to know about the state of gaming journalism. What's the subject? Xbox down 52% YOY in Europe, what is the discussion?

  • Oh it doesn't include Germany and the UK
  • Xbox was never big in Europe
    • But I guess this is YOY, so maybe it's still a bad trend
  • Xbox is focused on more than console now, so the platform is actually growing, so the decline is actually good
  • How much better they think the 360 is than the ps3...
  • Sony is also doing badly, even though they're having a ton of success
    • Also, Sony hasn't earned any of their success
  • Sony isn't making quirky small Japanese games anymore, so they're bad

18 minute video about Microsoft declining massively in the 3rd year in the console cycle and a quarter of the video is on how it doesn't matter, how xbox is actually doing well, how great the 360 is, and the finally how this is actually bad for sony...

Not sure what is going on between DF and Chris Dring, but people are absolutely bending over backwards to make themselves look like clowns these days.

Digital Foundry like Chris Dring, knows that the "console wars" pay their checks. They have an inherent interest in boosting Xbox even if it does Xbox no real favors. This was one of the most ridiculous videos I've seen from a group that generally takes themselves pretty seriously.

Criticism is healthy and natural. It's how we grow and improve.

What the video should have consisted of was a real explanation as to why Xbox is struggling and the points are as clear as day

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass
  • The controller doesn't have haptics
  • Still lacking in Japanese games
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011
  • Poor studio management and franchise management
    • Bungie to 343i
    • Coalition
    • Playground Games
    • Turn10/Forza
    • Rare
    • Lionhead
    • Tango Gameworks
    • Arkane/Redfall
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games
    • Games take so long to develop, acquiring a publisher isn't likely to make any short-term gains


DF is a bit suspect from the beginning. They were stressing how PS5 must punch above their weight because of less teraflops and equal/better perf. But maybe the answer is simple and the PS5 architecture was simply more efficient.

Ofcourse Xbox is struggling because there isn't a compelling reason to get one unless you simply like MS very much. Their own IP are both mismanaged and nearly all of them underdeliver. You can play these games elsewhere, and other big games are only on PS5 as Sony delivers more console exclusivity you do need to purchase a PS5 for. If you want to sell product, you need to have the software. Its that simple.

MS could compete during the pandemic period with shortages and bank on enhanced legacy games. But this is a thing of the past. With consoles being readily available and development ramping up they need to deliver new software. Which Sony clearly understands better as they show up and most of their in house projects are rated well. On top of that they manage to snatch rather big releases like FFXVI and FFVII.
 

coffinbirth

Member
Some clickbait bullshit right here.

I love how both the OP and IGN are calling the Eurozone...Europe now. This means Europe's biggest markets aren't even covered here. This isn't pointed out in the OP, and not a single person has mentioned it in this thread.

"Console hardware sales cover Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Italy, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland."
 
I think it ultimately comes down to the incestuous nature of the gaming media today.

There has been massive consolidation in gaming journalism. Your average joe used to be able to make their own game news and review sites back in the day and get pretty decent traffic if you were any good.

Now we have a handful that are all in bed with the platform holders and publishers, desperate for access and perks. They live and breath the console wars in order to get hits and views.

If they criticized Microsoft, it would force them to be better, and it would force Sony to be better. Everyone wins.

Gaming journalism is the reason why MTX and DLC were able to become a thing and now it is normalized. The fall of AAA gaming has happened under the watch of gaming journalism.

Release a game, have "journalists" promote the game, maybe it even reviews well at the ones that got codes, and then the user reviews start coming in. I think that is why we don't have a real metacritic API for the platform holders because they probably like to dismiss user reviews as warring. You give them validity and now they have power... no one wants that.
 

jm89

Member
Some clickbait bullshit right here.

I love how both the OP and IGN are calling the Eurozone...Europe now. This means Europe's biggest markets aren't even covered here. This isn't pointed out in the OP, and not a single person has mentioned it in this thread.

"Console hardware sales cover Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Italy, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland."
Not like those other regions are gonna change things for Xbox anyway.
 

Daneel Elijah

Gold Member
Your post reads to me as "wahhh they didn't talk shit about Xbox and gave Sony some criticism" so lets break this down out of your Sony fanboyism.

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass - Xbox is an ecosystem not just a console anymore, Revenue comes from GP and game sales on Steam, Microsoft Store and Xbox Console
  • The controller doesn't have haptics - Wtf is this for an argument, PS5 haptics are nice but do you moan Nintendo didn't include haptics in their pro controller etc, but if MS did it then its stupidly bad
  • Still lacking in Japanese games - GP now starting to get day one big JRPG franchises like P3 Remake, Persona Collection etc, Agree there isn't enough but its not like they have not provided some.
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011 - Forza Horizon, Halo Infinite (last few months), Hi-Fi Rush, Starfield (while not perfect)
  • Poor studio management and franchise management - I agree with this because their "hands off" approach which means no quality control, Halo Infinite is proof they are fixing this with the 343i Mixup and the games in an excellent state now.
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games - Games are being produced a lot of them we sort of know about (Oblivion Remake/remastered etc) .. while some might of been developed while MS purchased them there is clear indication of new titles being developed after the MS acquisition.
While I know MS has shit studio management etc, the hyperbowl of latching onto anything to shit on people who enjoy Xbox or the obsession with console sales, don't you think MS know they have failed in the console space, just smells of someone using excuses to try and justify their purchase of a PlayStation and to shit on anybody who enjoys Xbox.
Not to break down your Xbox fanboyism while you are breaking down his Sony fanboyism, but you do agree with a few of his points. The video is about a concerning info. Xbox sales. They could explain what a console life cycle is supposed to be and why it is bad to for a console to be down in their third year. Or why it does not matter if they have the belief that Xbox is getting more money from PC and mobile than their console now with the Activision merger. There is a lot to talk about the situation as the report used at the source was before black friday, and we will soon have more info on it I think. I have not seen the video, so if you did and Mibu no ookami Mibu no ookami summary was done in bad faith, I apologise. But talking about the 360 when they should be talking about the Series S/X does can be seen by some as a diversion. The first part of the post you are criticizing is just about that, complaining that the title and the meat of the discussion are not the same. Then he go on how he would talk about it, and we can all have opinions on that, and your response will probably incite one from him too.
 

coffinbirth

Member
Not like those other regions are gonna change things for Xbox anyway.
You mean the largest markets in Europe?

“However, even in the UK, which is a market where Xbox is a lot more competitive it’s been a tough year, with Xbox Series S and X sales down 23% year-to-date."

Considerably different than 52%...or is this a "thinking caps off" thread altogether?
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly


This video tells you everything you need to know about the state of gaming journalism. What's the subject? Xbox down 52% YOY in Europe, what is the discussion?

  • Oh it doesn't include Germany and the UK
  • Xbox was never big in Europe
    • But I guess this is YOY, so maybe it's still a bad trend
  • Xbox is focused on more than console now, so the platform is actually growing, so the decline is actually good
  • How much better they think the 360 is than the ps3...
  • Sony is also doing badly, even though they're having a ton of success
    • Also, Sony hasn't earned any of their success
  • Sony isn't making quirky small Japanese games anymore, so they're bad

18 minute video about Microsoft declining massively in the 3rd year in the console cycle and a quarter of the video is on how it doesn't matter, how xbox is actually doing well, how great the 360 is, and the finally how this is actually bad for sony...

Not sure what is going on between DF and Chris Dring, but people are absolutely bending over backwards to make themselves look like clowns these days.

Digital Foundry like Chris Dring, knows that the "console wars" pay their checks. They have an inherent interest in boosting Xbox even if it does Xbox no real favors. This was one of the most ridiculous videos I've seen from a group that generally takes themselves pretty seriously.

Criticism is healthy and natural. It's how we grow and improve.

What the video should have consisted of was a real explanation as to why Xbox is struggling and the points are as clear as day

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass
  • The controller doesn't have haptics
  • Still lacking in Japanese games
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011
  • Poor studio management and franchise management
    • Bungie to 343i
    • Coalition
    • Playground Games
    • Turn10/Forza
    • Rare
    • Lionhead
    • Tango Gameworks
    • Arkane/Redfall
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games
    • Games take so long to develop, acquiring a publisher isn't likely to make any short-term gains


Dude, this video can't upset you this much?

They basically say Microsoft has done little to tempt people to buy an xbox console this generation. Politely say that it's basically dead everywhere in Europe apart from the UK.

Playstation and Switch is big in Europe, lots of store space etc.

John makes a comment that Sony haven't done anything groundbreaking rhis generation but have delivered a solid release schedule of games to excite users about the platform.

I then kind of stopped. Its just not what you're seeing.

Do you want professional adults to act like youtube fanboys? 🤔
 
The comments on that video are a lot like what you said in your post. So even if they try to defend Xbox it does not seems to work in that case. I think that like their distaste of the PS5 Pro they will warm up to this state of affairs and have another video in a few weeks/ months where they will be more concerned about Xbox sales. But we had those discussions since Sony managed to flood the market with PS5 consoles. Each month will be another occasion to talk about Xbox sales and I am curious to see what will happen in the next few months. Will Microsoft do like Disney and simply stop giving info? Hide it even harder? Will they talk about E3 2024 even earlier than last year? Or will Activision games entering Gamepass help them more than expected? If, for example, they decide to put COD on Gamepass in a few months, that would help.

There seems to be this prevalent idea that Microsoft can exist within gaming without Xbox as a console and it just isn't true.

PC GamePass is not as profitable as Xbox GamePass.

If I buy an Xbox and get GamePass and buy GTA6, Microsoft still gets 30 percent of that GTA6 money. That's 21 dollars per copy.
If I buy PC GamePass and buy GTA6. Microsoft gets 0 dollars for GTA6.

Without Xbox, Microsoft can't afford to spend nearly as much on the content, because you're talking about far fewer subscribers and less consistent subscribers.

So it's fine and dandy to talk about Xbox shifting towards more software and services, but ignoring its struggles with hardware is at the detriment of the whole industry. Either Microsoft is going to leave the console business or their hardware sales will be so diminished that they might as well have.

That's not a good thing for anyone.
 

bitbydeath

Member
You mean the largest markets in Europe?

“However, even in the UK, which is a market where Xbox is a lot more competitive it’s been a tough year, with Xbox Series S and X sales down 23% year-to-date."

Considerably different than 52%...or is this a "thinking caps off" thread altogether?

I’ll take, what is Brexit for a dollar Alex.
 

NonPhixion

Member
You mean the largest markets in Europe?

“However, even in the UK, which is a market where Xbox is a lot more competitive it’s been a tough year, with Xbox Series S and X sales down 23% year-to-date."

Considerably different than 52%...or is this a "thinking caps off" thread altogether?
What is the considerable difference? I see them being down in both the UK and those listed European markets. What are you seeing with your thinking cap on?
 
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Your post reads to me as "wahhh they didn't talk shit about Xbox and gave Sony some criticism" so lets break this down out of your Sony fanboyism.

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass - Xbox is an ecosystem not just a console anymore, Revenue comes from GP and game sales on Steam, Microsoft Store and Xbox Console
  • The controller doesn't have haptics - Wtf is this for an argument, PS5 haptics are nice but do you moan Nintendo didn't include haptics in their pro controller etc, but if MS did it then its stupidly bad
  • Still lacking in Japanese games - GP now starting to get day one big JRPG franchises like P3 Remake, Persona Collection etc, Agree there isn't enough but its not like they have not provided some.
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011 - Forza Horizon, Halo Infinite (last few months), Hi-Fi Rush, Starfield (while not perfect)
  • Poor studio management and franchise management - I agree with this because their "hands off" approach which means no quality control, Halo Infinite is proof they are fixing this with the 343i Mixup and the games in an excellent state now.
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games - Games are being produced a lot of them we sort of know about (Oblivion Remake/remastered etc) .. while some might of been developed while MS purchased them there is clear indication of new titles being developed after the MS acquisition.
While I know MS has shit studio management etc, the hyperbowl of latching onto anything to shit on people who enjoy Xbox or the obsession with console sales, don't you think MS know they have failed in the console space, just smells of someone using excuses to try and justify their purchase of a PlayStation and to shit on anybody who enjoys Xbox.

I'm not looking for them to talk "shit" about Xbox, but they should do an accurate appraisal of WHY Xbox is down relative to last year in this specific region and why in the same period Sony is significantly up.

They say that Sony hasn't done anything special, so why are they up? This is all about the X1? How would that not have had an impact in 2022 but has in 2023? It's a poor analysis.

Revenue might come from other elements of Xbox as a platform, but they're not nearly as stable avenues of revenue year in and year out.

DF said Sony didn't do anything special, I think what they did with the haptics was pretty special. That doesn't mean Nintendo had to do the same special thing. Their special thing was a hybrid console/handheld. What does the XSX do to differentiate itself from other platforms?

I'm glad you agree they are still lacking in Japanese games. Getting Persona games from 6+ years ago probably isn't the uptick we're looking for.

Forza Horizon 5, Halo Infinite, and Starfield are not the industrywide standouts that you need to push a platform. These aren't Pokemon, Halo, Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, or even Gears of War. When this generation is over, no one is going to be talking about Forza, Halo Infinite, or Starfield.

Think back to the subject at hand. The games in development for newly acquired publishers aren't selling units today. The fewer units that sell today, the harder it is to sell tomorrow, next month, and next year. Mindshare is a real thing and Microsoft has lost it, which again was completely glossed over in this discussion by DF.


Dude, this video can't upset you this much?

They basically say Microsoft has done little to tempt people to buy an xbox console this generation. Politely say that it's basically dead everywhere in Europe apart from the UK.

Playstation and Switch is big in Europe, lots of store space etc.

John makes a comment that Sony haven't done anything groundbreaking rhis generation but have delivered a solid release schedule of games to excite users about the platform.

I then kind of stopped. Its just not what you're seeing.

Do you want professional adults to act like youtube fanboys? 🤔

What upsets me is the fall of gaming journalism. A proper analysis would be to mention while this data doesn't include germany and the uk, it's down there for the year as well.

They spend more time in this video shitting on Sony, than talking about why Xbox is struggling to sell in Europe and what they can do to change that.

If I didn't know anything, watching that I'd think Sony was also down on the year rather than +130-150.

John's criticism of Sony is based off of his personal opinion rather than sound analysis. You can lament the lack of quirky japanese games, but that is not what made the PlayStation brand sell well in the past or present.
 
The reality is that this is a MASSIVE story with serious implications on the industry and it hasn't been reported as such at all.

These numbers suggest that the XBS will have a very limited life cycle. We're talking about 4-5 years of sales at this rate. If that's not news I don't know what is.

What's ignored in this is that Xbox is down in North America as well and I think people are being disingenuous when they suggest, "Well Xbox is a platform now." That may very well be the case, but how sustainable are the new areas of business and can they offset the losses in the old areas of business?
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Your post reads to me as "wahhh they didn't talk shit about Xbox and gave Sony some criticism" so lets break this down out of your Sony fanboyism.

  • There are no exclusives as all games are available on PC and on GamePass - Xbox is an ecosystem not just a console anymore, Revenue comes from GP and game sales on Steam, Microsoft Store and Xbox Console
  • The controller doesn't have haptics - Wtf is this for an argument, PS5 haptics are nice but do you moan Nintendo didn't include haptics in their pro controller etc, but if MS did it then its stupidly bad
  • Still lacking in Japanese games - GP now starting to get day one big JRPG franchises like P3 Remake, Persona Collection etc, Agree there isn't enough but its not like they have not provided some.
  • No stand out games not just since the XSX launched, but really since Gears 3 in 2011 - Forza Horizon, Halo Infinite (last few months), Hi-Fi Rush, Starfield (while not perfect)
  • Poor studio management and franchise management - I agree with this because their "hands off" approach which means no quality control, Halo Infinite is proof they are fixing this with the 343i Mixup and the games in an excellent state now.
  • Focus on acquiring publishers rather than producing games - Games are being produced a lot of them we sort of know about (Oblivion Remake/remastered etc) .. while some might of been developed while MS purchased them there is clear indication of new titles being developed after the MS acquisition.
While I know MS has shit studio management etc, the hyperbowl of latching onto anything to shit on people who enjoy Xbox or the obsession with console sales, don't you think MS know they have failed in the console space, just smells of someone using excuses to try and justify their purchase of a PlayStation and to shit on anybody who enjoys Xbox.

So you are one of those head in the sand types too huh?

consent GIF
 

bender

What time is it?
John's criticism of Sony is based off of his personal opinion rather than sound analysis. You can lament the lack of quirky japanese games, but that is not what made the PlayStation brand sell well in the past or present.

I share a lot of John's sentiments but it's hard to argue against Sony's success which is exactly what it seems this video is trying to do, intentional or not. The blockbuster strategy isn't exactly new for them either.
 

Daneel Elijah

Gold Member
There seems to be this prevalent idea that Microsoft can exist within gaming without Xbox as a console and it just isn't true.

PC GamePass is not as profitable as Xbox GamePass.

If I buy an Xbox and get GamePass and buy GTA6, Microsoft still gets 30 percent of that GTA6 money. That's 21 dollars per copy.
If I buy PC GamePass and buy GTA6. Microsoft gets 0 dollars for GTA6.

Without Xbox, Microsoft can't afford to spend nearly as much on the content, because you're talking about far fewer subscribers and less consistent subscribers.

So it's fine and dandy to talk about Xbox shifting towards more software and services, but ignoring its struggles with hardware is at the detriment of the whole industry. Either Microsoft is going to leave the console business or their hardware sales will be so diminished that they might as well have.

That's not a good thing for anyone.
As long as Xbox is the name of the company and of the consoles that Microsoft makes, I hope that nobody can really forget how important their hardware is in gaming. But you can get back from a bad console. Can they do it? We will have to see.
The reality is that this is a MASSIVE story with serious implications on the industry and it hasn't been reported as such at all.

These numbers suggest that the XBS will have a very limited life cycle. We're talking about 4-5 years of sales at this rate. If that's not news I don't know what is.

What's ignored in this is that Xbox is down in North America as well and I think people are being disingenuous when they suggest, "Well Xbox is a platform now." That may very well be the case, but how sustainable are the new areas of business and can they offset the losses in the old areas of business?
It is and we talked about it a lot since 2022. Microsoft just finalised a 70 billion dollar acquisition. The Series S/X is failing, but not as fast/hard as the Wii U did. As long as they don't nuke their brand in the meantime, we will have a next gen console from them, and time for them to hopefully fix their studios, old and new, to make us games worth playing. This is not a defense of Xbox position, just facts. I honestly can't imagine their position when the PS5 Pro and Switch 2 will arrive, and they will have to continue with a duo of console that will be at best out of position, at worse completely inadequate for the market from the end of 2024 and beyond. Each month will be the occasion to talk about it, because they have a better vision and better data about the market than we do, so we will see moves from Xbox to react if it continue to get worse in the next few months. As for them crashing down, I am curious how Gamepass can save them or precipitate the fall, hypothetically speaking. Can having 20 millions consumers make Xbox big enough to survive until they find a new strategy(whatever that would be?) or will people just abandon the service if enough bad months follow in a row?
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The bottom line is that despite the news they soft-pedalled MS' responsibility for their product's performance.

The undeniable truth is GamePass -regardless of anyone's feelings on its merits- is NOT SELLING XBOXES. And considering this service was introduced in 2017 how anyone can argue it isn't newsworthy?
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Dude, this video can't upset you this much?

They basically say Microsoft has done little to tempt people to buy an xbox console this generation. Politely say that it's basically dead everywhere in Europe apart from the UK.

Playstation and Switch is big in Europe, lots of store space etc.

John makes a comment that Sony haven't done anything groundbreaking rhis generation but have delivered a solid release schedule of games to excite users about the platform.

I then kind of stopped. Its just not what you're seeing.

Do you want professional adults to act like youtube fanboys? 🤔

Do you understand how STUPID the bolded sentence is, when you read it back? Like..........it's like telling a futbol team "they don't do anything groundbreaking outside of scoring 5 times a match and winning 80% or more of their games."
 
Europe has always been very PlayStation-focused, particularly in the UK. 3-4 straight years of very poor first-party output from Xbox has just cemented Sony’s lead.
 

MacReady13

Member
They basically say Microsoft has done little to tempt people to buy an xbox console this generation. Politely say that it's basically dead everywhere in Europe apart from the UK.
Are you trying to tell me that one of the cheapest barriers to entry for "the greatest deal in gaming" is buying a Series S console, and that getting "the best deal in gaming" isn't enough to lure people into the Xbox ecosystem??? I'd have thought by now that they'd have billions of people spending 10-15 dollars a month to have easily "the best deal in gaming" on the cheapest console on the market! Sheer lunacy I say form the billions who aren't nabbing this amazing deal!.
 
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