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YTD Europe: PS5 4.68m; NSW 2.33m; X/S 0.88 m (Nov: PS5 1.21m; NSW 0.38m; X/S 0.18m)
Edmund
Member
IF Microsoft did not act like arrogant pieces of shit during the acquisition, didn't engage shills to AstroTurf for them and engage in FUD, didn't threaten the UK govt to let the ABK deal pass, did not say shit like I wanna spend Sony out of business, thinking they can buy Nintendo, did not get Brad Smith to act like fucking prick,
THEN MAYBE we would not cheer for MS to fail. Maybe we would be cheering for them and want to see them succeed.
I wonder if all the Xbox fans actually thought about why people hate Microsoft so much.
Because there are really A LOT of legit reasons why Microsoft is hated. And yes. I want to see them fucking fail thanks to their distasteful behaviour.
Just FYI. When I graduated out of university, I interviewed to be an account executive at Microsoft. I also interviewed at a school to be a piano teacher. Thank fuck I chose the piano teacher job.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
I consider Gamepass a poison. And yes there is a lot of reasons to be unhappy with them. And Microsoft is a corporation. They are there for profit, and are not to be liked no matter what. I know. It was just a realisation that I got talking here.
Good to hear. Those kind of jobs are really stress inducing from what I hear. Very happy that you got a job that you like. Money is good but a good state of mind is invaluable.
Thirty7ven
Banned
It’s extremely hard to feel sorry for Xbox and it’s impossible to feel sorry for MS of all companies.
Maybe if the Xbox community was more critical of Xbox’s management and consistent failures, it would feel different. But when you look online, and you listen to podcasts and take a look at YouTube, the voices of the community don’t paint a sympathetic picture. Xbox management? Those emails tell the tale.
They better come up with something fresh for whatever they are doing next because they are out of silver bullets. Start with disengaging from the toxic online community, stop fueling console wars to stay relevant, and stop trying to buy the whole industry. Take creative risks, because bleeding money to gain advantage when you’re a company the size of MS isn’t risky, it’s just the obvious play.
Maybe if the Xbox community was more critical of Xbox’s management and consistent failures, it would feel different. But when you look online, and you listen to podcasts and take a look at YouTube, the voices of the community don’t paint a sympathetic picture. Xbox management? Those emails tell the tale.
They better come up with something fresh for whatever they are doing next because they are out of silver bullets. Start with disengaging from the toxic online community, stop fueling console wars to stay relevant, and stop trying to buy the whole industry. Take creative risks, because bleeding money to gain advantage when you’re a company the size of MS isn’t risky, it’s just the obvious play.
Killjoy-NL
Member
This is kind of a strawman argument.
Sales are a reflection of the markets reaction to the focus of each company.
One of the three is clearly being ditched/ignored by an overwhelming majority of the gaming community, meaning that the focus and direction taking by said company is putting people off their console completely.
Whether or not the console is a fine system, or if someone can enjoy gaming on it, is completely irrelevant.
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Crayon
Member
All true.... but... I like to keep in mind that the hostility against ms blurs into hostility against individuals on the forum so... idk. It's hard when there is that crowd manipulation in particular and how to talk about it without inadvertently blanketing people here (and I only give a shit about the ones here) as empty pr repeaters. Some people are traditional free-range fanboys who come up with their own crazy spins on the fly. That is the fanboy that naturally exists on any platform and I don't mind that a bit. Those are fine people who come to the forum to let their hair down and I don't like that they get all the splash damage from the backlash against ms' pr tactics.
Klayzer
Member
Straight facts. A free competitive market has spoken, the gaming community is not interested in Xbox relative to Nintendo or Sony. There's still a large amount of money to be made by Xbox though.
Precisely that exactly thing complete
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
When Xbox becomes a worthy competitor again, you may see less of this. Right now, considering the practice of buying out whole publishers, empty promises, and lack of compelling software that one can only get on an Xbox, it's no surprise that people are wishing for it to just go away.
The industry has spoken and people MUCH prefer Nintendo and PlayStation. That's on Xbox, not forum users or anyone else.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I personally feel its more that the average consumer buys one console and playstation is the console to get outside of a switch. It just is.
Until Microsoft pull up their big boy trousers and deliver awesome games that make people feel like they NEED the console, the average consumer is just going to buy a ps5 for cod, fortnite and fifa/madden and be done with it.
Plenty will buy on pc but there will be plenty that want their games on console.
They need to get the games right and while they had a decent number of releases in 2023 they scuppered the landing. Not good enough at all.
Orbital2060
Member
Bernardougf
Gold Member
And it worked... in approximately two years they can use the exact same graphic to buy fucking EA ... nothing will change or maybe will be even worse.
Killjoy-NL
Member
That's basically what I said.
But the fact that the worst Playstation managed to still outsell the best Xbox (PS3 vs X360), shows that Xbox as a brand isn't cut out to compete with Sony.
More so since Xbox has been on a steady decline since last-gen, with current-gen being an utter disaster.
If they were to ever make a comeback, this gen was their chance.
But they completely lost touch with the gaming-community. They won't be recovering from this.
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Unknown Soldier
Member
Considering the roadblocks the regulators put up over the ABK deal, there is no way another giant acquisition would be allowed. That ship has sailed.
MS also knows what they had to give up to get ABK over the finish line too. No CoD exclusive to Xbox for 10 years, no exclusive cloud or even ownership for 15 years. The ABK acquisition ended up being on disastrous terms. They won't chase EA or T2 with terms like that now being expected of them.
Bernardougf
Gold Member
Lets hope this thing has ended with ABK.. its all we can do
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phaedrus
Member
Who is he, and what is he doing with his left hand.
phaedrus
Member
Yeah, it's the proverbial poisoned chalice.
skit_data
Member
He's a guy using console market share to justify acquiring one of the largest third party publishers while supposedly not giving a flying fuck about console sales, of course.
Edit: I don't know about the right hand thing, but I guess hes more used to doing the left hand path sorta business going by the image.
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Yeah, we don't all have a mansion full of gaming PCs and consoles.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
Baki
Member
Gamers aren't buying 2 systems, only 1, since they have similar libraries. So it comes down to brand, where your friends play, and exclusives.
Nadella is not giving Phil any more big checks. It's not 2021 anymore, with the crazy stock market, and wall st investors throwing money at subscription businesses. It's 2023, belt tightening time, and Phil needs to prove he can put to good use, the $80B that's already been invested. Considering the 2023 sales for Xbox across it's best markets, it's not looking good.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
this year MS had Hi-Fi, Redfall, Starfield, Foza.
Baki
Member
Only Starfield and Forza could be considered a mass market game.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
and both were disappointing.
Hellblade 2
Fable
Project Dark
Indina Jones
Blade.
Next Gears.
are these games what xbox has as "mass market games" for the entire generation?
Baki
Member
No. None of these will move the need. Their big bet is having games like COD on GP day 1. But it's too late in the gen to make a difference. By the time they do that, PS5 will be at 70-75M shipped and closer to 90M when GTA VI launches. You're not convincing those people to buy an additional Xbox and pay $200/year for a subscription. This is why they might start next gen early. There's not much to be done to save this gen as most people will have chosen a console in only year 4.
That said, the impact of this ABK deal will have a large impact sooner than people think. If I were Sony, I would not be complacent, and look secure several studios of my own. Maybe even take a crack at buying Take Two.
StereoVsn
Member
I mean MS will probably be worth $3trillion by end of next year. Realistically speaking the money they spent is about equal to income for a year. They don’t need investors or Wall Street or anyone else to finance any sort of purchase related to gaming.
Now whether or not they will keep throwing money at the Xbox is another question. My guess is that isn’t going to happen, but you never know.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
The biggest impact that could come from ABK is CoD and that's a guaranteed stay on PlayStation for at least 10 years. Beyond that, CoD needs PlayStation as much as the other way around (likely more, in fact). If they launch the next Xbox early, and it does nothing, this will all be irrelevant anyway. They need a major, MAJOR turnaround to ever be any serious threat to PlayStation. This would include breaking into markets where Sony is guaranteed to dominate. They scratched that itch very slightly in the 7th gen and it took Sony's own mistakes for that headway to be made. If they are steamrollin' (PS1/2/4/5), forget about it.
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iamvin22
Industry Verified
Let's fvcking go! This post should go down as legendary gold.
kazuyamishima
Member
The PS3 got a 2nd life after a lot of price cuts, new revisions and a quality output after 3 years from launch.
Don’t seeing it happening for Xbox Series but who knows. They are losing money with series X at $499 and Series S at $299 so way more with all of these temporary price cuts to $349/399 and $138/149 respectively.
Lucky for MS they make a ton of money on subscriptions (mostly Office and the likes).
Don’t seeing it happening for Xbox Series but who knows. They are losing money with series X at $499 and Series S at $299 so way more with all of these temporary price cuts to $349/399 and $138/149 respectively.
Lucky for MS they make a ton of money on subscriptions (mostly Office and the likes).
Baki
Member
That's the value of MS shares. $67B for ABK was their biggest acquisition ever and represented a large percentage of their profit for that year. Gaming is not a hot sector like AI from an investor perspective. Nadella job is to increase share price. He has made a bold bet by investing so much into one of their slowest growing divisions. He did that in 2021 (when the deal was signed) because Wall St investors (in some ways, his boss) were throwing money at anything that had a subscription business and he had cash sitting on their balance sheet earning 0% interest. So why not throw that money at a big splashy M&A purchase in an area that was hot in 2021. But markets are different now, a lot of money has been spent, and a lot of time with all these court cases. Nadella is going to expect results. If he does not get results, rightfully, Phil gets the boot. If I was a major shareholder, I would already be complaining about Phil.
It doesn't make an impact this gen. Maybe next gen, that's why MS might start the generation early.
Gen was still open back then. Barely 40m consoles sold between them. If Sony hits their target, by March next year, they will have shipped 65M PS5s. Between Sony and MS, that would be 90M consoles. By the end of 2024, Sony will likely be at 80M PS5s.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Even if they started next gen in two years (as the wildly speculative rumors suggest), that's still 8 years of it being on PlayStation (meaning any real impact would have to be for the Xbox after that — assuming there would even be one).
Besides, this, again, assumes it even ends up exclusive. No way to know if it would hurt PlayStation more than itself, but one thing's certain — if you cut off a franchise's largest user base, that's not a good thing for said franchise. This also assumes the next Xbox has a fighting chance. Too many unknowns to lay any solid confidence on it.
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Baki
Member
If they start the gen early, Xbox will be the cheapest and best way to play COD. I don't think that will be a game changer, but it could be, because ABK games do have a lot of brand power. At this point, from a HW perspective, that's their last gambit. The other option is to get more aggressive with cloud gaming.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Xbox is the cheapest way (on console) to play CoD now. PC is the best way to play CoD now. PlayStation sells the most copies by a landslide. It's currently a dead end.
And, once again, this assumes the next Xbox (particularly launching that early) would be a serious threat to PlayStation. You need that before you can even think about CoD having any real impact.
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SneakersSO
Member
Honestly, we've already crossed the rubicon. This situation will only get worse. Seeing the numbers laid out like this makes some of the change in direction make so much more sense.
Brigandier
Member
Sorry for my poor wording I meant there is still December which will include the usual big jump from Xmas purchases to add to Sony's YTD figures.
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Crayon
Member
If the early next gen Xbox is not majorly different approach, it will be completely indistinguishable from a mid gen to the buyer. There's no fucking way it's going to come out the gate with games that don't release on the series so it's no different until ps6 is out for a couple years and the crossgen winds down. In fact, it may just encourage third parties to skip series versions to avoid getting increasingly heavy games to run on the series s. Brilliant, there goes the tens of millions of people you did get while you sales are still declining.
Another normal Xbox, next gen or not, would be coming after PS5 pro as much as it is before ps6. It's nothing more than the one x and would do nothing to stop the decline. It has to be something different.
Another normal Xbox, next gen or not, would be coming after PS5 pro as much as it is before ps6. It's nothing more than the one x and would do nothing to stop the decline. It has to be something different.
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Bernardougf
Gold Member
I think it comes down to good EXCLUSIVE GAMES and xbox has none zero zip, until they change their PC police there is zero incentive to throw money at a box that can play games at mild graphics and dubious frame rates, even more when the games arent there. Im a playstation guy, but I had my xbox360 and Xbox one because they gave me some esclusives that I wanted to play. And I can say with confidence that the moment sony goes the PC route Im out of playstation.
Another thing is I think Gaf mentality is still to elitist... its not 1990 ... the average consumer of hardware is not some dumb dumb who buys anything because of pretty lights and colors, of course they do not know every detail, but the broad characteristics of what a machine can do, what games can they play in what capacity they know, words like FPS and RESOLUTION is not some physics puzzle the average consumer can't handle and make choices accordingly.
The road for MS/Xbox hardware success is the same as always been, great exclusives (no pc/gamepass day 01 launch) and a great hardware (no series s anchor bullshit).
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I came from a council estate in the UK and worked my ass off to get to where I am. I'm not going to feel bad that I can have what I want and treat my kids to awesome stuff I could have only dreamed of having.
Luckily, my kids are awesome and not spoiled shits so somehow I did something right lol
I'm also far from a millionaire but I do ok. This is my hobby and I'd rather have my own escape room that has an xbox and a ps5 in it. That's all. Series s is so cheap there's one in the kids bedroom and I bought a spare second hand for the kitchen room.
Anyway, back on topic. Sony did an excellent job of having numerous games lined up from day one up until start of 2023. Their pa4 cross platform initiative worked wonders and Microsoft just didn't have the software ready. This is going exactly how it should.
Microsoft can either have a real good attempt of having decent software, line it up with hardware or they can go third party and potentially offer a console to those that want to pick it up for gamepass. That's probably their best option to make money. Which is what ms wants to do. So I could see it.
Die Namek Ability
Member
You are not a victim bro. It was just pointed out that your situation isnt representative of the avg gamer. You using your anecdotal example as evidence of a broader landscape is naive at best.
I do understand why console owners take an interest in these sales threads because whichever console is ahead in sales is the one that gets the most games and better performance too.
It makes total sense why because Devs will want parity and sales but personally I think the Series X is the far better looking console from noise and design, for example take the heat dissipation, the Series X is silent always, does not blow its hot air out over the HDMI and USB ports and does not use liquid metal.
I honestly don't understand why the Series X gets the hate it does.
It makes total sense why because Devs will want parity and sales but personally I think the Series X is the far better looking console from noise and design, for example take the heat dissipation, the Series X is silent always, does not blow its hot air out over the HDMI and USB ports and does not use liquid metal.
I honestly don't understand why the Series X gets the hate it does.
llLeonhart
Member
I wonder what it entails to the Xbox Brand (specifically in the console space) and how Microsoft and its investors see it moving forward.
They acquired a stupidly high amount of studios and publishers. They just launched one of the games that were supposed to be a megaton for the brand. Along with the news of acquiring ActiBlizz. Still, their console numbers continue to dwindle.
As much money as MS has, still, they must be losing so much money on Xbox.
They acquired a stupidly high amount of studios and publishers. They just launched one of the games that were supposed to be a megaton for the brand. Along with the news of acquiring ActiBlizz. Still, their console numbers continue to dwindle.
As much money as MS has, still, they must be losing so much money on Xbox.
Thirty7ven
Banned
This is gen is looking like a mix of PS2 and PS3, where Sony does PS2 numbers and gets a second half of the gen as good as PS3.
So for those who agreed with Phil Spencer about Xbox One being the worst generation to lose, and it’s something I and others were saying before this gen begun and got laughed at, how is losing this gen even worse than last one and release a new console ahead of schedule going to help them?
The pieces don’t fit.
So for those who agreed with Phil Spencer about Xbox One being the worst generation to lose, and it’s something I and others were saying before this gen begun and got laughed at, how is losing this gen even worse than last one and release a new console ahead of schedule going to help them?
The pieces don’t fit.
Ultimately Microsoft make so much income (profit) from Windows OS/Office and cloud offerings that spending $69 billion for Activision is literally nothing to them. However, for them to maintain the acti revenue that was being generated pre acquisition, they would need to support the base where the gamers are or are heading to (PS5). The window where they could have directed all acti games in development to not have PS5 ports is over. Because their revenue numbers would collapse, as the Xbox series doesn't have the user base to sustain them.
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kazuyamishima
Member
I really don’t see Ms having a 2nd life like the PS3 although anything is possible.
But it will be very hard for them, the Brand seems to be in all time low even in the US.