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[Aldric]

We will see how open it really is and how the world is populated (this is the big one...Japanese Open Worlds have yet to actually give you something to do in a big open world with stuff in it to do and see).

l thought Xeno X gave you plenty of things to do and see, especially the latter. Of course we always go back to the same issue, which is what is it you want to do in an open world game and what do you think constitutes interesting gameplay? Because from what we've already seen of BotW there's plenty of things to do.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Skyward Sword's dungeons are the most consistently good out of all the 3D zeldas save MM (which wins because it has both the fewest and Stone Tower). It has great ones like pirate ship and cistern but without total garbage like Goron Mines to bog it down.

It also has a tremendous amount of garbage filler in the main quest.

 

[mrmickfran]

Anybody remember that "FF has the most negative fanbase" thread?

Yeah, I think Zelda has it beat. The fact that you can't even mention the name of a game without somebody bashing it (as evident in this thread) is saying something.

 

[Neoleo2143]

It also has a tremendous amount of garbage filler in the main quest.

The only filler I'd say was in Skyward Sword's Main Quest would be probably only the return to Skyview Temple. Beyond that, it's mostly a nonstop barrage of new challenges and remixes.

 

[Nirolak]

When I played Wind Waker HD, it kind of felt like a prototypical Ubi-game in terms of the ideas it tried to add to the Zelda formula, so I think that does actually fit with this given how much the new mechanics in Breath of the Wild remind me of Far Cry.

 

[Inferno313]

Anybody remember that "FF has the most negative fanbase" thread?

Yeah, I think Zelda has it beat. The fact that you can't even mention the name of a game without somebody bashing it (as evident in this thread) is saying something.

Nah. I don't feel like anyone is out-and-out bashing in here. It's just that when you've got a series so full of classics, strong opinions arrive on which one is the best.

 

[EhoaVash]

Just hope the dungeon designs aren't inspired by wind waker

 

[Peltz]

I agree with a lot stated in the OP. Well said.

But I consider BotW to have the DNA of literally every single Zelda game that preceded it (just like all Zelda games somehow seem to do while remaining distinct).

To me, the game seems to have the most in common with Link to the Past and feels like an evolution from that game. LTTP was very open (you could explore nearly all of the map after leaving the sanctuary) and had so many interactive elements in the environment. It was very lush to explore and experiment with. There were also mysteries around every single corner of that game's world.

I also think there's so much of Zelda 1's DNA in this game. The role of combat in Zelda 1 was a natural deterrent in some of the later dungeons. You also didn't find items the same way as in other games in the series. Some were in dungeons, and some were randomly placed in the overworld in secret locations. I'm hoping this will be true in BotW as well.

The game is also like MM because the NPC's all seem to have their own lives/schedules and sidequests seem to be a major focus.

Etc. etc. etc.

In other words, the game just looks fantastic in every which way. I can't wait to play it

When I played Wind Waker HD, it kind of felt like a prototypical Ubi-game in terms of the ideas it tried to add to the Zelda formula, so I think that does actually fit with this given how much the new mechanics in Breath of the Wild remind me of Far Cry.

How so? ( I don't play Ubi Soft games.)

 

[zelas]

I've personally been seeing this parallel myself. Particularly with how empty the expanses of BotW look and how they plan to sprinkle 100+ shrines all over. I can't help but be reminded of the sailing in Windwaker and how the majority of the rewards and travel all over that map weren't very enticing.

 

[balohna]

WW actually had a few game mechanics that were completely absent in TP and SS, that I missed a lot. Mainly the use of enemy weapons, and combat in general was never as fluid again. BotW seems to bring these back, ++++++++++. I'm excited.

 

[Col.Asher]

The only filler I'd say was in Skyward Sword's Main Quest would be probably only the return to Skyview Temple. Beyond that, it's mostly a nonstop barrage of new challenges and remixes.

Doesn't the water dragon test your courage three Times? I also remember the game grinding to a halt after the sandship with pointless filler.

 

[Jailer of Hope]

It also has a tremendous amount of garbage filler in the main quest.

I don't know. All that sailing in WW feels more like filler to me.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Honestly I would say that part of why it seems like such a successor, even beyond the mechanical parallels, is that the two games have actually got a quite similar premise - closer than most Zelda titles get.

Ganon appeared previously and had to be sealed away? Check.
The Kingdom of Hyrule has fallen into ruin? Check.
You must explore a vast, sparsely popuated world in which small pockets of civilisation eke out a living? Check.
Ganon is about to break free of his seal? Check.

On top of that, you have the inclusion of the King of Hyrule, begging you to save his daughter. It's playing with a lot of the same tropes, albeit with the bulk of travel on land.

 

[Grampasso]

l thought Xeno X gave you plenty of things to do and see, especially the latter. Of course we always go back to the same issue, which is what is it you want to do in an open world game and what do you think constitutes interesting gameplay? Because from what we've already seen of BotW there's plenty of things to do.

Well if we talk about environment interaction XenoX has pretty much nothing. It has lot of things to do though, but they're almost all about finding/killing quest objectives. So I think we may say that Breath of the Wild will be the first Japanese attempt at a more classical open world like it's intended in the west

 

[Shaanyboi]

The only filler I'd say was in Skyward Sword's Main Quest would be probably only the return to Skyview Temple. Beyond that, it's mostly a nonstop barrage of new challenges and remixes.

I mean I could mention a ton for you...

-Halting a major story revelation because a propeller on the goddess statue fell off. You go down to a previously explored area, find it, come right back up, and... that's it. You've gained no meaningful skills, no insight. They just had to halt the momentum of the story for a pointless distraction.

-constant returns to Skyview

-"proving your courage" by swimming in a big pool collecting tad-tones. There is no skill or thougnt involved save for a single one trapped under a branch of something.

-to enter a dungeon, you're presented with a locked door. To open the door, you have to water a frog tongue above it. Simple enough. Directly after this, another door asking you to solve the exact same puzzle. No additional twist. Okay... Finally you reach the dungeon entrance and you have a massive frog that apparently needs a massive amount of water. So you have to leave the area to go see the Water Dragon go get a big bucket. When you return though, you don't return where you need to. Instead you have to do a fucking escorts mission ALL THE WAY UP THE MOUNTAIN. Why? What is being learned? What useful skill are you gaining? Nothing. It is busywork for the sake of busywork.

 

[Muninn]

I can't think of many open world games like this which use the environment to facilitate gameplay and problem-solving the way BOTW does. These aren't ideas that hadn't been attempted before (Far Cry 2 etc.), but more often than not, the open world tends to be nothing more than a hub.

Ehh, IDK. Just how open and large this world is remains to be seen. It's possible that Zelda is doing more Zelda stuff in an open world, but how cohesive and immersive the open world is we do not know yet.

And there is almost zero innovation going on here. I just don't see it. People are talking about physics and yadda yadda. Nah, that stuff has really been done before. Zelda is playing catch up to games that came out years ago.

And it might succeed and do everything right. But other open world games have done plenty with puzzles and gameplay IMO.

 

[Barry Burton]

With the first three 3D Zelda games, it felt like each one really honed in on a specific aspect of the Zelda formula. OOT really emphasized the dungeons, MM really emphasized the sidequests and towns, and Wind Waker really emphasized the exploration aspects. Then you had Twilight Princess, which felt like it was focusing on the same stuff as OOT, and not quite executing at the same level.

The failings of the bolded is why Wind Waker never really did it for me. I never found the exploration in the game to be well-implemented or rewarding in the slightest bit. The uninspired grid layout, in particular, rendered the overworld into something about as uninteresting as possible. I disagree with the OP on that point. I rarely felt any sense of discovery or adventuring in TWW (and in fairness, TP and SS were no better in that regard, if not worse).

Meanwhile, when you look at the achievements of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask (dungeons and NPC interactions, respectively), Wind Waker being such a steep drop-off in both of those aspects left the entire game to be carried by its art-style. And as awesome as that game looks, it just wasn't nearly enough for me.

It's probably the most-disappointed I've ever been by a new game. I'm hoping that Breath of the Wild also having amazing art design is the only major element they have in common.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Ehh, IDK. Just how open and large this world is remains to be seen. It's possible that Zelda is doing more Zelda stuff in an open world, but how cohesive and immersive the open world is we do not know yet.

And there is almost zero innovation going on here. I just don't see it. People are talking about physics and yadda yadda. Nah, that stuff has really been done before. Zelda is playing catch up to games that came out years ago.

And it might succeed and do everything right. But other open world games have done plenty with puzzles and gameplay IMO.

I mean which open world games put you at risk of being struck by lightning during a storm because you have alot of metal on you?

 

[Kodaman]

Just hope the dungeon designs aren't inspired by wind waker

Agree.

Just give me Wind waker like world, Twilight Princess like dungeons... instant GOAT.

 

[theSlacker]

Think you have hit on why I am so excited for Breath. WW is my favorite Zelda game because of that exploration aspect and I was originally hyped for SS because I thought it was going to be like that but with the sky instead of sea. Something that worries me about Breath though is I enjoy the "slight" gating of progression behind ability and item unlocks in Zelda games and felt that WW did that well along with having the more openish world with tons to explore.

 

[Astral Dog]

I agree,fuck Majora's Mask

 

[Bidermaier]

I still remember the swarm of insecure teenagers that wanted a "mature zelda"

 

[Necro900]

Op are you me?

WW felt like going on an adventure, much more than the other Zelda games I've played. Good times.
Fingers crossed for Botw to be half as lovable.

 

[jmizzal]

Feels like the current generation realization of what I felt playing Zelda 1 as a kid.

Yes

I think its a mix of a lot of Zelda games, plus new stuff

 

[SalvaPot]

To me, BotW is to Zelda 1 what OoT was to LttP.

I am so hyped.

 

[Servbot24]

Helllll yeah it does...


HELL YEAH IT DOES.

Wind Waker is best Zelda. This is inarguable.

Well there is Majora's Mask to consider.

But yeah, if BotW turns out to be that good... fuck me, I'll buy a new console for it. Gladly.

(Not going to happen though.)

 

[The perfect Dark]

I mean which open world games put you at risk of being struck by lightning during a storm because you have alot of metal on you?

and which open world games let you climb all the mountains only to use your shield as a snowboard on top of it.

 

[Servbot24]

I mean which open world games put you at risk of being struck by lightning during a storm because you have alot of metal on you?

Is this supposed to be proof of innovation? Not trying to be snappy, just can't tell if this is a joke post or not.

Every random game has some type of asset or element no other game has. That's not innovation.

 

[joms5]

WW is the best worst Zelda.
TP is the worst best Zelda.
SS is the worst worst Zelda.
MM is the best best Zelda.
Oot is Zelda.

This right here invalidated your entire argument. And I was with you for a while...

The best Zelda is The Legend of Zelda, full stop.

Not my problem you young ones can't accept the truth.

If we're talking 3D then it's Oot.

 

[Reckless Abandon]

I like the idea of this being an evoluation of Wind Waker. WW was great, and this game does evoke the same feelings I had when I first laid eyes on it. I was one of the few (at least as far as people I knew back then) people back in the day that didn't throw up a little every time they saw toon Link and cel shading.

The art style is on point, and the gameplay looks good. If it delivers I'll highly consider grabbing a Switch.

 

[Gsnap]

Is this supposed to be proof of innovation? Not trying to be snappy, just can't tell if this is a joke post or not.

Every random game has some type of asset or element no other game has. That's not innovation.

I think the point of the lightning post is that it is just one piece of the puzzle. BotW is pushing interactivity with the environment in a much heavier way than many (if not most) open world games. And one example of that is the lightning. Lightning is always just an effect in the skybox during a storm. In BotW, it has physicality, and it can interact with the game world and Link. Because more of the world can be interacted with in a physical way, more of the world can be used as a tool for exploration, puzzle-solving, and combat. It's not just static like most worlds (Skyrim, or Xenoblade X), but also not overly reliant on just blowing stuff up like others (Just Cause, or the Far Cry games to an extent). Putting it all together in a way other games haven't really done, and overlaying it on top of the Zelda formula (which inherently has a lot of diversity in dungeons, tools, etc.) can easily be seen as innovation to many.

 

[komorebi]

Helllll yeah it does...


HELL YEAH IT DOES.

Wind Waker is best Zelda. This is inarguable.

Agreed!

 

[Servbot24]

I think the point of the lightning post is that it is just one piece of the puzzle. BotW is pushing interactivity with the environment in a much heavier way than many (if not most) open world games. And one example of that is the lightning. Lightning is always just an effect in the skybox during a storm. In BotW, it has physicality, and it can interact with the game world and Link. Because more of the world can be interacted with in a physical way, more of the world can be used as a tool for exploration, puzzle-solving, and combat. It's not just static like most worlds (Skyrim, or Xenoblade X), but also not overly reliant on just blowing stuff up like others (Just Cause, or the Far Cry games to an extent). Putting it all together in a way other games haven't really done, and overlaying it on top of the Zelda formula (which inherently has a lot of diversity in dungeons, tools, etc.) can easily be seen as innovation to many.

Ah, in that case I'm in agreement. The interactivity of the gameplay definitely seems to be the most innovative thing here, at least within the realm of open world design.

 

[kizmah]

A perfect excuse to post some of my screens from this gorgeous game.

 

[FlaygletheBagel]

I didn't end up playing WW until the HD remaster on Wii U, and I couldn't believe I had missed it for so long! It's far and away my favorite one, and I'm excited to see whether BotW can dethrone it. So far it's looking like everything I want out of a Zelda game.

 

[komorebi]

I'm not opposed to a WW HD port for the Switch.

Not only would I buy it, I'd continue to think it's the best.

Unless BotW is better of course.

 

[Gin]

my only concern with windwaker was the vast amount of empty sea space with hardly anything to do..

dont get me wrong - having space to roam is a good idea ....

- but for BOTW - I am worried about how barren that space will be (really hoping the situation isnt the same as WindWaker)

 

[Rodin]

When I played Wind Waker HD, it kind of felt like a prototypical Ubi-game in terms of the ideas it tried to add to the Zelda formula, so I think that does actually fit with this given how much the new mechanics in Breath of the Wild remind me of Far Cry.

I still struggle to see this. It may be because it isn't true, or because many of the mechanics seen in today's games are built on what Zelda did 10+ years ago, so i automatically associate what i'm seeing in BOTW with what i used to do in previous titles of the series.

There are some resemblances shared by most open world games, including FC, Zelda or The Witcher, but that's it. There's almost nothing in Breath of the Wild that resembles Far Cry in particular, maybe fire spreading, but even then BOTW add its twist because you can use the ascensional currents to paraglide, or attack bosses from a vantage point, or other stuff. Many of the mechanics in this game are mostly expanded mechanics taken from old Zelda games, expanded and mixed with the new physics engine for puzzle solving and traversal. I mean, even the towers are basically the fish from WW adapted to the new world. The idea to use a tower of all places/objects is related to Far Cry of course, Aonuma himself stated that he played and loved the game, but i think it's pretty clear what's more important between the mechanic itself and the object used to "translate" it in the game. And the mechanic was already in the series almost 10 years before Far Cry 3 was released.

my only concern with windwaker was the vast amount of empty sea space with hardly anything to do..

dont get me wrong - having space to roam is a good idea ....

- but for BOTW - I am worried about how barren that space will be (really hoping the situation isnt the same as WindWaker)

We've discussed this a lot of times.

Honestly it reminds me most of the original Legend of Zelda.

Obviously true, Miyamoto and Aonuma talked about this a lot.

 

[timetokill]

It's not reminding me of Wind Waker at all because we've already seen BotW be a million times more reactive than Wind Waker was. Simply put: there's a hell of a lot more to DO.

Honestly it reminds me most of the original Legend of Zelda.

 

[WadeitOut]

Seems more like a Skyward Sword/Twilight Princess mashup.

 

[Pinky]

A perfect excuse to post some of my screens from this gorgeous game.

Man, I really should replay this before BotW drops. So good.

 

[Incitemaybe]

I agree with everything you wrote OP. Wind Waker gave me a sense of exploration and engaged my imagination in ways TP & SS failed to do.
Breath of The Wild certainly looks to continue and evolve aspects that I loved from Wind Waker and more ❤️

 

[Ninjimbo]

I mean I could mention a ton for you...

-Halting a major story revelation because a propeller on the goddess statue fell off. You go down to a previously explored area, find it, come right back up, and... that's it. You've gained no meaningful skills, no insight. They just had to halt the momentum of the story for a pointless distraction.

-constant returns to Skyview

-"proving your courage" by swimming in a big pool collecting tad-tones. There is no skill or thougnt involved save for a single one trapped under a branch of something.

-to enter a dungeon, you're presented with a locked door. To open the door, you have to water a frog tongue above it. Simple enough. Directly after this, another door asking you to solve the exact same puzzle. No additional twist. Okay... Finally you reach the dungeon entrance and you have a massive frog that apparently needs a massive amount of water. So you have to leave the area to go see the Water Dragon go get a big bucket. When you return though, you don't return where you need to. Instead you have to do a fucking escorts mission ALL THE WAY UP THE MOUNTAIN. Why? What is being learned? What useful skill are you gaining? Nothing. It is busywork for the sake of busywork.

This min/max view of game design is really annoying. It's like every second has to be fun or you're doing it wrong.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Helllll yeah it does...


HELL YEAH IT DOES.

Wind Waker is best Zelda. This is inarguable.

Agreed entirely.

WW is my favourite Zelda game, and BotW just looks like a mega version of that.

I don't now about the "inarguable" part, but the Wind Waker love in this thread warms my heart. My absolute favorite 3D Zelda, and depending on the day, quite possibly my favorite Zelda game period.

 

[Raven117]

l thought Xeno X gave you plenty of things to do and see, especially the latter. Of course we always go back to the same issue, which is what is it you want to do in an open world game and what do you think constitutes interesting gameplay? Because from what we've already seen of BotW there's plenty of things to do.

I never played Xenoblade, but its one of the reasons I picked up a Switch. Hence, i don't have anything to compare to.

Don't know about BotW yet, I have hopes that they put "stuff" in it ala Skyrim (dare I saw Witcher)...and less like MGS5/FFXV. Open world by concept...but it really didnt' add much that a few big maps put together couldn't handle.

 

[psyfi]

60% The Legend of Zelda (non-linear, open, emphasis on player agency)
10% Wind Waker (wide open spaces, big sense of traversal/exploration)
10% Link to the Past (art, tone, feel)
10% Skyward Sword (art, tone, feel, experimentation)
10% Majora's Mask (NPC interaction and side quests)
0% Minish Cap because that game sucks

 

[klier]

WW is the best worst Zelda.
TP is the worst best Zelda.
SS is the worst worst Zelda.
MM is the best best Zelda.
Oot is Zelda.

hahaha LOL

 

[benjammin]

Give Darksiders 2 a try if you haven't played it. It's a good combination of Zelda, Diablo, and God of War.

 

[TheBanditKing]

I am really glad to hear this, Wind Waker is one of the best 3D Zelda games.

 

[Beckx]

Feels like the current generation realization of what I felt playing Zelda 1 as a kid.

this is why i'm soooo excited