DragonGirl
Member
Interactivity is a trait of sandbox design, not a defining characteristic of open world design. XenoX is classically open world in a very pure sense, but it's not a sandbox. Zelda is going for an open world sandbox.
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More than anything, Breath of the Wild feels like the direct evolution of Wind Waker
- Thread starter Shaanyboi
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Interactivity is a trait of sandbox design, not a defining characteristic of open world design. XenoX is classically open world in a very pure sense, but it's not a sandbox. Zelda is going for an open world sandbox.
RampagingSoul
Member
Far as the 3D Zeldas go, it's Wind Waker or Majora's Mask. It depends on the day as I lean more toward Wind Waker. All the tedium of sailing for most people never effected me and I liked the world and characters along with the sense of a great journey and exploration that sailing to all of these islands brought me. I liked the emotion that Toon Link provided too, with him being my favorite incarnation of Link besides Skyward Sword Link. Same with the Zeldas in Wind Waker (Tetra) and Skyward Sword. Probably one of the reasons why I actually like Skyward Sword a lot more than some people.
///PATRIOT
Banned
Lol no, everybody knows that Zelda 64 has everything good and well balanced in every department, if anything Breath of the Wild is an evolution of 64.
Septimus Prime
Member
I'm tempering my expectations for this for now, as Twilight Princess was such a huge letdown that it turned me off from the whole series on console for a while.
Right now, I feel like BotW could either be really good or really bad. I hope it's the former, but we'll see.
Right now, I feel like BotW could either be really good or really bad. I hope it's the former, but we'll see.
Astral Dog
Member
Its actually an evolution of both Skyward Sword and Wind Waker,Aonuma commented on it.
Its going to be acé
Its going to be acé
Dark Ninja
Member
Have to disagree maybe because I just re-played it but everything looks like what they were trying to do with Skyward Sword but couldn't do due to limitations. Connected overworld sections, weapon/item breaking, stamina meter, location light points and Link/Zelda having more interaction/more of a relationship are the big points from what ive seen. Of course its really a mashup of all the past games since they always try to add and not remove in Zelda games.
StarStabbedMoon
Member
Wind Waker had more item versatility than Skyward Sword, and Skyward Sword itself was derived from Wind Waker as much as it was any other Zelda. Skyward Sword was also much more linear. I get you may not like Wind Waker, but how much the world is filled doesn't really matter in terms of thematic evolution, the concept is still a more open world.
yes it does.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
Yes OP. It's a direct evolution of WW, just like Gyarados is a direct evolution from Magikarp.
QuixoticNeutral
Member
Wind Waker is unquestionably my favourite Zelda, the only one I've taken to 100% completion (Nintendo gallery included) multiple times, and that was with the old Triforce hunt and before the various conveniences added in WW HD.
Pretty much the only thing threatening its position is that TP and SS set a whole new standard for dungeon design, whereas even WW die-hards like myself will admit that dungeons were one of the few respects in which it was not head and shoulders above the rest of the 3D series.
I've missed so much about it—not just the sense of exploration and the overall gorgeousness, but the amount of depth that was put into how items, enemies, and wind physics interacted. It was a joy just to sail around all day and test out how one thing interacts with something else. Nothing excited me for Breath of the Wild more than the declaration early on that the developers were taking Wind Waker and addressing the interchangeability of how the islands were positioned (it didn't really matter where they were, as the sea dividing them was just the sea) by making the traversal of the overworld from one key location to another varied and interesting. SS was on the right track with that, recapturing the density of traversal puzzles in the 2D games, but in segments that were as isolated from each other as the islands in WW.
A proper Wind Waker 2 that dispenses with the constraint of a set order of progression through the story is what I've been asking for since 2003 (partly as I played KOTOR that same year, which led me to envision a future Zelda that would unfold dynamically based on what you decided to do or obtain first—and this time, hopefully in a more meaningful way than the do-it-in-any-order of ALBW, where items were still mostly useful in one place and nowhere else). If we get dungeons that feel as organically woven into their thematic environment as the ones in the middle acts of TP and SS, the package will be complete.
If BotW is the game we want it to be, I think a crazy Majora-style diversion may be the only way to follow it up. And I'm hoping for it: a smaller-scale game, also on the Switch, that preserves the systems that work in BotW's ground-up redesign but within a tight and idiosyncratic structure sure to invite controversy.
Pretty much the only thing threatening its position is that TP and SS set a whole new standard for dungeon design, whereas even WW die-hards like myself will admit that dungeons were one of the few respects in which it was not head and shoulders above the rest of the 3D series.
I've missed so much about it—not just the sense of exploration and the overall gorgeousness, but the amount of depth that was put into how items, enemies, and wind physics interacted. It was a joy just to sail around all day and test out how one thing interacts with something else. Nothing excited me for Breath of the Wild more than the declaration early on that the developers were taking Wind Waker and addressing the interchangeability of how the islands were positioned (it didn't really matter where they were, as the sea dividing them was just the sea) by making the traversal of the overworld from one key location to another varied and interesting. SS was on the right track with that, recapturing the density of traversal puzzles in the 2D games, but in segments that were as isolated from each other as the islands in WW.
A proper Wind Waker 2 that dispenses with the constraint of a set order of progression through the story is what I've been asking for since 2003 (partly as I played KOTOR that same year, which led me to envision a future Zelda that would unfold dynamically based on what you decided to do or obtain first—and this time, hopefully in a more meaningful way than the do-it-in-any-order of ALBW, where items were still mostly useful in one place and nowhere else). If we get dungeons that feel as organically woven into their thematic environment as the ones in the middle acts of TP and SS, the package will be complete.
If BotW is the game we want it to be, I think a crazy Majora-style diversion may be the only way to follow it up. And I'm hoping for it: a smaller-scale game, also on the Switch, that preserves the systems that work in BotW's ground-up redesign but within a tight and idiosyncratic structure sure to invite controversy.
Affeinvasion
Member
Isn't it a bit too early to tell for sure?
DragonGirl
Member
I have, for the past couple months, been replaying all of the Zeldas I own so my experiences are very fresh. Outside of being able to pick up enemy weapons, I don't see much connection to WW specifically. Also, I would not at all call WW items on SS level. We see a light crafting system with upgrades in SS expanding your inventory of similar use items that looks vastly expanded on in BotW. The tools in SS have a lot of ways to use them ,mostly thanks to the motion controls, that gives them a lot of use diversity well beyond the scope of WW and I see that concept evolved in BotW. All Zeldas have made more or less use of an open world to explore, so that's just the concept of the series taken to its logical next step in BotW and WW's ocean is far closer to SS's sky than the far more robust looking lands of BotW.
What's more, the focus on having more challenging enemies and puzzles on the overworld and not primarily relegated to dungeons is also a link strongest seen in 2D Zeldas, to SS, to BotW. It's one thing I find especially refreshing in SS, to spread those core gameplay concepts out of the dungeons for the 3D games. Starting with Ocarina, the 3D Zeldas concentrated way too much on the dungeons surrounded by empty overwords, though Majora's Mask unique focus on the NPCs and more compact overworld saved it from the same.
I see far more game mechanic concepts particular to SS evolved in BotW than stuff directly linked to WW. I played WW HD a month ago and am playing SS again right now and feel those conceptual links pretty strongly.
We wanna start defending shitty escorts missions now?
It's amazing how different the opinions are regarding the quality of each entry of the Zelda series. It's also amazing that even if every mainline Zelda has a very high quality any fault makes some people talk about a specific entry like it's the worst game ever!
On topic I think that BotW is more a fusion between all modern Zeldas with the solo purpose of trying to recreate the feeling of the very first one.
On topic I think that BotW is more a fusion between all modern Zeldas with the solo purpose of trying to recreate the feeling of the very first one.
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
Am I remembering correctly that in the first or second reveal of this game, Aonuma mentioned Wind Waker as an inspiration? I know the original Zelda has been talked about a lot as an inspiration recently (and maybe from the beginning), but I seem to recall WW's exploration getting mentioned as well.
SoraanTribal
Member
Except it is better than Wind Waker... in most areas. WW Link and Zelda are superior, but I prefer everything else about TP (although I might prefer the art style of WW).
Glass Rebel
Member
Seems like it keeps the best things of WW, which is almost nothing, and throws away all the bad ones, which is almost everything.
Thanks. But I mean Skyward Sword shook things up in its own way too. Just in its own weird direction, and coming off of TP, it actually shares alot of the game's same problems. Even other games in the franchise introduced elements that stuck around here or there. But I don't personally feel their influence as strongly as I do with Wind Waker.
tauroxd
Member
I agree with all of it except the bolded part, that just NO!
As long as BOTW doesn't follow up on some of the weakest dungeon design in the series, lose steam towards the end or feel as unfinished as WW then it should be fine I guess. I do like a lot of things about WW, but it's one of the most flawed Zelda games from a design perspective.
Donniewahlberg
Banned
Haha. I just finished replaying WW yesterday. Once you have the bow or boomerang they're easily dealt with but yea, before you have any gear if you run into enemies at sea its a real pain. Especially if you get caught up by a giant octo! I ran into one going from Dragon Roost to Forest Haven before I had anything and had to resign myself to being spat out.
And that's why I'm so hyped for BotW, for me it looks like a Wind Waker 2, and Wind Waker being my favourite game of all time... I couldn't be more hyped
Btw, sure BotW looks like Wind Waker(it's in spoiler just in case):
I feel validated lol
I loved the ocean. I felt a sense of scale and knowing each quadrant had something worth looking for, was so exhilarating. I don't know though, to me this feels nothing like traditional Zelda.
Not having dedicated items and lessening the complexity of the dungeons is something that to me IS Zelda. The dungeons and puzzles has always been something Nintendo has been good at while the world felt like an afterthought. I was honestly hoping that this game would be a refinement of that last thing the Nintendo always seemed to neglect.
The overworld being the main attraction this time rather than being part of everything is bumming me out. Still excited but I'm not coming into this game expecting a traditional Zelda.
Not having dedicated items and lessening the complexity of the dungeons is something that to me IS Zelda. The dungeons and puzzles has always been something Nintendo has been good at while the world felt like an afterthought. I was honestly hoping that this game would be a refinement of that last thing the Nintendo always seemed to neglect.
The overworld being the main attraction this time rather than being part of everything is bumming me out. Still excited but I'm not coming into this game expecting a traditional Zelda.
Yo wtf is this!? I don't remember WW looking this bad. Maybe WW shouldn't have gone HD.And that's why I'm so hyped for BotW, for me it looks like a Wind Waker 2, and Wind Waker being my favourite game of all time... I couldn't be more hyped
Btw, sure BotW looks like Wind Waker
killatopak
Gold Member
I agree.
I loved WW art style so it's great that BotW has a similar one.
I loved WW art style so it's great that BotW has a similar one.
Was gonna make the same argument.
Did not play Zelda 1 when it was new, but from the stories Iv've heard it seems to set up a very similar thing, with a for the time big world to explore, alot of mysteries and strange puzzles. I hope the last part is still what it seems and not something you just brute force easily with alot of Zelda experience, which I'm afraid the "minitemples" seems to do.
And that's why I'm so hyped for BotW, for me it looks like a Wind Waker 2, and Wind Waker being my favourite game of all time... I couldn't be more hyped
Btw, sure BotW looks like Wind Waker
I guess this is a bug area in Hyrule? looks as empty as BotW lmao.
Well, it makes sense that BotW would evolve from Wind Waker, since the two sequels since then are basically dead ends in terms of design evolution. Twilight Princess was essentially the consummate realization of the LttP/OoT design paradigm- there's little left to explore in that style. Skyward Sword, on the other hand, was focused on motion controlled combat, which won't be in BotW, as well as expanding the dungeon design paradigm to encompass the overworld as well- this would seem to be its primary contribution to Breath of the Wild.
I'm glad BotW is following up on what the Wind Waker started, because I still think Wind Waker has a ton of great ideas- it just didn't adequately deliver on a lot of them. Breath of the Wild seems to be addressing most of its flaws: turning the open world into a giant physics and systems playground so there's always stuff to do, taking the grab-any-weapon gimmick and developing into the primary inventory system, making the gameplay actually challenging so there's a real point to learning the intricacies of the combat system. I can't wait to play it.
I'm glad BotW is following up on what the Wind Waker started, because I still think Wind Waker has a ton of great ideas- it just didn't adequately deliver on a lot of them. Breath of the Wild seems to be addressing most of its flaws: turning the open world into a giant physics and systems playground so there's always stuff to do, taking the grab-any-weapon gimmick and developing into the primary inventory system, making the gameplay actually challenging so there's a real point to learning the intricacies of the combat system. I can't wait to play it.
Jonneh3003
Banned
While I think Breath of the Wild looks gorgeous it'll be so hard to top this. It'll be hard for any game to top this.
Hard to argue there. I'm sure BOTW will leave some people in awe with the variety of vistas though.
Personally, i think Breath of the Wild looks even better.
Now we're mostly dealing with shitty screenshots, but you'll see as soon as the game comes out and people will start posting their own screens like these. And of course you'll see it on your TV and Switch screen, which will be even better.
On a side note, i wish they were able to keep the grass selfshadowing you see in these screens in BOTW, but i guess there was just too much grass and the Wii U wouldn't have been able to handle that.
And many others (including me) prefer the GI, selfshadowing, high res shadows and AO of the HD remaster. They could've toned down the bloom a bit, but aside from that it looks much better than the original on Dolphin.
Saucestin_Roast
Member
Agreed. Count me in the group that found Wind Waker HD to be absolutely stunning at some points. I would take it over the original any day. The colors could be just slightly less bright I suppose, but I still would prefer them brighter than they are in the original. Just a personal preference though I guess because I know a lot of people would rather have Dolphin OG Wind Waker.