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More ZoE sequel "news" from the Kojima Productions blog

duckroll

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http://ameblo.jp/kp-blogcast/entry-10366236399.html

Today Kojima posted this entry in the Kojima Productions blog. He is talking about ZoE. He knows many fans love the series, and everyone wants another sequel. He talks about the development of ZoE2 and the various problems they ran into.

He knows the game itself had excellent word of mouth, and most people who played it liked it. Unfortunately, the game did not sell.

He says that he wants to make a sequel to ZoE2. This time, he wants to make sure it is also a commercial success. He already has many ideas in his head about how to go about doing it. Unfortunately, the production lines within Kojima Productions are all full at the moment. The game is not in development. It has not been greenlit.

He does not know when they can go about doing it. He hopes fans understand that even though ZoE2 was a critical success and considered a masterpiece by many people, it did not reflect the same success in sales and in the end they are still running a business. This makes it hard.

But he ends off in a very positive note. He says that he cannot promise when the sequel will be made, but he can promise that one day a sequel WILL be made.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
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Two options for success:

1) do it for PS4 launch. All the Zoe fans will buy a console to play it, and those that otherwise wouldn't buy it, will still buy it because they'll be desparate for eye candy to show off their new console. If its not greenlit yet then its at least Christmas 2011 before it can come out, probably later. So it'll be the twilight of the current gen.


2) get the license for Transformers 3
 

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
Nov 3, 2007
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duckroll said:
He says that he wants to make a sequel to ZoE2. This time, he wants to make sure it is also a commercial success. He already has many ideas in his head about how to go about doing it. Unfortunately, the production lines within Kojima Productions are all full at the moment. The game is not in development. It has not been greenlit.

uh , damn all these MGSs...

anyway , Digno is what the sequel need , no Leo Stenbuck , Kojima please don't put that cry baby in Dingo's jehuty.
 

duckroll

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I'll be honest, and I don't think many people will like this answer, but I think the next ZoE will almost certainly be for the PSP. There are several factors to consider:

- robot games are not really popular outside of Japan
- ZoE as an IP does not have the pull to be worth making a HD game out of
- gamers in Japan expect multiplayer and customization out of robot action games these days

With those factors in mind. A follow up to ZoE on the PSP supporting weapon/equipment customization and 4 player versus/co-op multiplayer makes the most sense. The can use the technical know-how they have learned from MPO and Peace Walker too.

fistfulofmetal said:
Make the sequel but don't call it ZOE3. Especially if it didn't sell.

Zone of the Enders: Retribution, Fall 2012

I dunno, rebranding something doesn't really work either. They tried that with Lunar Knights, it still bombed big time. It's interesting to note that Kojima has tried to launch several new IPs since the success of MGS, but has failed every single time regardless of platform. It seems he's destined to work on nothing but Metal Gear for all eternity.
 

Callibretto

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duckroll said:
I'll be honest, and I don't think many people will like this answer, but I think the next ZoE will almost certainly be for the PSP. There are several factors to consider:

- robot games are not really popular outside of Japan
- ZoE as an IP does not have the pull to be worth making a HD game out of
- gamers in Japan expect multiplayer and customization out of robot action games these days

With those factors in mind. A follow up to ZoE on the PSP supporting weapon/equipment customization and 4 player versus/co-op multiplayer makes the most sense. The can use the technical know-how they have learned from MPO and Peace Walker too.



I dunno, rebranding something doesn't really work either. They tried that with Lunar Knights, it still bombed big time. It's interesting to note that Kojima has tried to launch several new IPs since the success of MGS, but has failed every single time regardless of platform. It seems he's destined to work on nothing but Metal Gear for all eternity.

I was about to post something similar. I just have this gut feeling that Kojima will make more games on psp.

edit: I still have no idea how ZoE2 could bomb commercially. I'd expect some decent success in Japan at least. don't Japan love anime mecha shows? it has great gameplay, anime cutscenes, great music, cool mech design, anime tie in with dolores and idolo.

how the hell didn't it sell?
 

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
Nov 3, 2007
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_dementia said:
put some Gundams in it

well that might work for Japan market , but what about the west ?

I don't think even Kojima name all over on the cover will do anything for the game in the west , unless they put Of WAR in the title or first person mode or something.
 

Safe Bet

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Sep 5, 2006
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duckroll said:
- robot games are not really popular outside of Japan
I tried Armored Core.

:/

We are the Generation that feel in love with Voltron and Stormtroopers.

A robot game with a more western look and easy to pick up and play game mechanics, should be succesful.

IMO

PS

If you think about it, Master Chief is a mini-mech and his games have done pretty well.
 

duckroll

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Totobeni said:
well that might work for Japan market , but what about the west ?

I don't think even Kojima name all over on the cover will do anything for the game in the west , unless they put Of WAR in the title or first person mode or something.

I don't think there's much hope for the West at all. If they can sell 300-400k in Japan, and 100k in US+Europe, then that would already be a several times the success of the first two games.

Safe Bet said:
A robot game with a more western look and easy to pick up and play game mechanics, should be succesful.

The would defeat the entire purpose of having a new ZoE game. Might as well never have a sequel in that case. :p
 

Safe Bet

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duckroll said:
The would defeat the entire purpose of having a new ZoE game. Might as well never have a sequel in that case. :p
The anime look is no longer popular.

What's wrong with losing the over-exagerated art style and replacing it with a more realistic approach?

It works great in the Metal Gear games.

PS

Yes my spelling sucks, apologies.
 
Dec 6, 2008
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I just want to hug Kojima really. Dude knows how to speak and take care of his fans. I'm glad the guy wields so much power at Konami, they'd be completely lost without him. Hell, he even took it upon himself to oversee a western developed Castlevania because the franchise has been stuck in such a rut. Promising there WILL be a ZOE3 is enough for now :D
 

duckroll

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Safe Bet said:
*nod*

Edited

ZoE as a series is conceived as an anime robot action simulation. An action game which allows you to play out your anime mecha fantasy. The anime theme IS the entire series. If they take that away, why even call it a ZoE game? Why would anyone who liked ZoE2, want a sequel which is completely different? I know I wouldn't.
 

SolidSnakex

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duckroll said:
I'll be honest, and I don't think many people will like this answer, but I think the next ZoE will almost certainly be for the PSP. There are several factors to consider:

- robot games are not really popular outside of Japan
- ZoE as an IP does not have the pull to be worth making a HD game out of
- gamers in Japan expect multiplayer and customization out of robot action games these days

With those factors in mind. A follow up to ZoE on the PSP supporting weapon/equipment customization and 4 player versus/co-op multiplayer makes the most sense. The can use the technical know-how they have learned from MPO and Peace Walker too.

That's the big problem with ZoE. It basically goes completely against what the "new" KojiPro is supposed to be about.

The title that will be announced first is being made in a style similar to the way his team has worked in the past, while the second will be produced by a restructured Kojima Productions with the overseas market firmly in mind. Kojima likens Western game development to Hollywood, with its products being made for the entire world, and reveals that his team is currently receiving "a makeover from the ground up." His goal for Kojima Productions: A software house that can compete with the best of the best from America and Europe.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3172054

If he's still going to use this mindset then I really don't know how they can make ZoE. Making it appeal to the world is going to be near impossible.
 

Safe Bet

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duckroll said:
Why would anyone who liked ZoE2, want a sequel which is completely different? I know I wouldn't.
You've got me there.

I don't give a shit about a new ZoE.

I just want a good mech game.

Edit:

Yes I agree; I am now talking less about ZoE and more about what I want, but just think about it...

Mechs + MGS Style = Panties Drop
 

Lostconfused

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Safe Bet said:
You've got me there.

I don't give a shit about a new ZoE.

I just want a good mech game.

Edit:

Yes I agree; I am now talking less about ZoE and more about what I want, but just think about it...

Mechs + MGS Style = Panties Drop
Well it sounds like what you want is another Mech Warrior game.
 

Totobeni

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Nov 3, 2007
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Safe Bet said:
The anime look is no longer popular.

What's wrong with losing the over-exagerated art style and replacing it with a more realistic approach?
.

the great America kingdom and Europtalia Empire are not the entire world , anime" look" is still fuck popular in japan.

the Anime part will help the game big time in Japan if they decided to put it on PSP, and an Mecha game without anime characters/look/style will not sell in Japan , and losing the Japanese market is a suicide for this genre.

Kojima need to found a neutral solution here.
 

Salaadin

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It all depends on what would be considered a "success" for a ZOE game. They dont have an MGS-like level of production values. I doubt they cost that much to make when compared to MGS either. Whats successful? 800k? 1 mil? 4 mil?

I think the problem the first game had is that it was never marketed like it shouldve been. ZOE was sold based on the fact that it came with the MGS2 demo. Ive seen a lot of people say(myself included) "My 50 dollar MGS2 demo came with a free game". I dont think thats the mindset that KojiPro wanted.

ZOE2 launched with really no push behind it.

Maybe drop the 3 from the title, call it Zone of the Enders: Leos Revenge or something (not really), and market the hell out of it. Make people know that its coming. Give it the Metal Gear marketing push. The games are good, ZOE2 especially. I think they wouldve sold well enough if people knew they existed.

Word of mouth is doing a lot these days too. Looking at Valkyria Chronicles and Demons Souls, a niche franchise like ZOE might see some success.
 
Aug 28, 2008
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duckroll said:
ZoE as a series is conceived as an anime robot action simulation. An action game which allows you to play out your anime mecha fantasy. The anime theme IS the entire series. If they take that away, why even call it a ZoE game? Why would anyone who liked ZoE2, want a sequel which is completely different? I know I wouldn't.

100% agree. Seriously it would be like taking Super Robot Wars and changing the mechs to modern warfare technology like tanks and jets.
 

Callibretto

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duckroll said:
ZoE as a series is conceived as an anime robot action simulation. An action game which allows you to play out your anime mecha fantasy. The anime theme IS the entire series. If they take that away, why even call it a ZoE game? Why would anyone who liked ZoE2, want a sequel which is completely different? I know I wouldn't.

well, mgs games is pretty anime centric even though it has fairly realistic graphic. I don't mind them trying to change how it looks as long as the gameplay is still as fast and over the top as ZoE2.
 

Sword Familiar

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Additional and clarification:

They are talking Anubis (ZOE2) failing because of a sales strategy miss. It was supposed to have been released during the Christmas holidays, but they postponed it to february because they thought it would probably be overshaded by other companies' high profile titles if they didn't. The added time was spent improving upon Anubis.

Sadly, the plan backfired because the other companies seemed to have used the same strategy, releasing their high profile games after, rather than during, the Christmas holidays.

Naturally, because of this, it didn't sell well on it's first run, and the director notes that if it had sold as expected, ZOE would probably have been a long runner KOJIPRO high profile series alongside MGS.

The greatest hits (JP: "the Best") has sold ok through the years and has made the Anubis fan base grow, he says, but not releasing the original in time was his own fault as the producer, and he's deeply sorry, apologizing not only to the fans, but also to his staff, who worked so hard on the title.
 

Dra-Q

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The series needs a reboot. Jehuty should be named Metal Gear Jehuty and the pilot should be one of many solid snake clones. Throw in some Patriots AI story and make Liquid's digital mind the end-boss.

Voilá, GAF's GOTY 2011.
 

Dibbz

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I'm lost. What the hell are you guys talking about with all this 'Anime look' rubbish? Are you talking about the cell shading or the cut scenes?

If it's the cutscenes what makes you think they'll use 2d animation in them? If it's the shading then omg Borderlands plus tons of other games are all Anime!!

Jesus the game is not even announced and you guys are going retarded.
 

Salaadin

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Dibbz said:
I'm lost. What the hell are you guys talking about with all this 'Anime look' rubbish? Are you talking about the cell shading or the cut scenes?

If it's the cutscenes what makes you think they'll use 2d animation in them? If it's the shading then omg Borderlands plus tons of other games are all Anime!!

Jesus the game is not even announced and you guys are going retarded.

Its not rubbish. The game has an anime look to it.

It has nothing to do with cel shading or 2d animations. ZOE1 used 3d cutscenes but every character still had that anime look to them.Zoe2 used actual anime cutscenes.

How is saying it has an anime look "rubbish" when it does have an anime look. I mean, look at it. How is that not anime?
 

duckroll

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Dibbz said:
I'm lost. What the hell are you guys talking about with all this 'Anime look' rubbish? Are you talking about the cell shading or the cut scenes?

If it's the cutscenes what makes you think they'll use 2d animation in them? If it's the shading then omg Borderlands plus tons of other games are all Anime!!

Jesus the game is not even announced and you guys are going retarded.

Maybe before you call people retarded you need to learn reading comprehension. We're talking about the art design and general robot design here. The mecha design in ZoE is obviously anime inspired, and that's the entire point. The robots are slim and humanoid looking, they're very fast and have crazy weaponry. The character designs are all done anime style too, and the game scenarios are designed to be like a robot anime series. You have the main character getting into a mech at the start, iconic villain characters and boss robots, etc.

This is a big contrast to western style robots which are often more realistic and militarized. They don't always have full humanoid shapes, they're often slower, don't fly around like there's no gravity, etc. Things are more grounded and tactical. Look at the difference between Chrome Hounds and Armored Core 4. Both are developed by From Software, but Chrome Hounds is a westernized mecha game, while Armored Core 4 is retains the anime mecha style that the series has always been known for.

That's what I'm talking about. The designs.
 

Safe Bet

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..what duckroll said.



Edit:

As for me, I like "anime" until it gets to the point of being silly.

Carrying swords 4x the size of yourself?

No..

Robots with 50 foot long yellow eyebrows?

No...

Edit #2:

Don't get me wrong, I see the artistic appeal but it doesn't lend itself to suspending disbelief imo.
 

DeBurgo

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duckroll said:
He says that he wants to make a sequel to ZoE2. This time, he wants to make sure it is also a commercial success. He already has many ideas in his head about how to go about doing it.
Oh god, this might be a bad sign

Though I have fewer preconceived notions about what constitutes a ZOE game than I do about what constitutes a Metal Gear game so maybe it won't be that bad. But I remember the stuff he said he's done to try and make Metal Gear palatable to a wider audience, especially in MGS2. For example, I dunno if I'd like to see something like a return to a male child protagonist ala ZOE1 (a game I admit I never got a chance to play, but I was turned off slightly by that aspect regardless).
 

Itchy//Tasty

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I remember the day ZOE2 was released, I walked into a games store and had to ask a member of staff for it, because it was so obscure they physically hadn't put it on the shelves (this was Game in the UK). They had it in the back and I was the only dude so far, who had come to buy it that day. :(
 
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It's good to see that Kojima wants this to happen and because of that it will but the question is when.

This would be the perfect time to see ZoE 1 and 2 with a fresh coat of paint on the Current-Gen systems so that more people can get their hands on it.

And once more people are hooked then hit them with 3.
 

Sword Familiar

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Itchy//Tasty said:
I remember the day ZOE2 was released, I walked into a games store and had to ask a member of staff for it, because it was so obscure they physically hadn't put it on the shelves (this was Game in the UK). They had it in the back and I was the only dude so far, who had come to buy it that day. :(

You were a hero. Be proud. Nice RE1 inspired nick btw.
 

duckroll

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For those who need visual aid, here's what the Zone of the Enders franchise consists of:










 

Safe Bet

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duckroll said:
For those who need visual aid, here's what the Zone of the Enders franchise consists of:
*ponder*

I think one of the tricks in western fantasy/science fiction is finding that fine line between believability and non-believability.

It has to make "sense enough" young adults can let themselvs escape into it.

IE

The tentacles in the second pic are fine as long as they are justified in a believable fashion.

Why can't he retract them?

Etc..
 

Totobeni

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Nov 3, 2007
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ReXXXSoprano said:
It's good to see that Kojima wants this to happen and because of that it will but the question is when.
.

when konami have some huge seller other than Metal Gear , Konami will force Kojima to make more and more of Metal Gear games as long as it's their only Killerapp/trick.
 

obonicus

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duckroll said:
This is a big contrast to western style robots which are often more realistic and militarized. They don't always have full humanoid shapes, they're often slower, don't fly around like there's no gravity, etc. Things are more grounded and tactical. Look at the difference between Chrome Hounds and Armored Core 4. Both are developed by From Software, but Chrome Hounds is a westernized mecha game, while Armored Core 4 is retains the anime mecha style that the series has always been known for.

Maybe Transformers 2 has reawakened America's hunger for giant humanoid robots doing pirouettes?