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[jem0208]

Sure. But VR is a singular experience, you put on the stupid looking headset and leave the world.

With this you're out in the world, potentially looking at yourself being an idiot in a mirror, looking at other foolish looking people with the headset, or letting other people see you. I'm not entirely certain whether this is better than glassholes...

The applications of this extend faaar beyond what people could do with VR though. They also extend far beyond gaming itself.

For standard gaming I agree, VR will most likely be better. However I think the possibilities with this type of technology are for more exciting.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Hold up, I think i've seen this anime before....

 

[loaf of bread]

@GI_AndyMc: Important first impression. In the videos I thought it filled your entire field of view, but it's more like a screen floating in space.

@GI_AndyMc: I'd say it's like a 16x9-ish monitor floating about 7 to 8 inches just in front of your face.

Woah, is this for real? Thats actually a lot worse if true. That eliminates the idea that it also does VR.

 

[ichtyander]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you can't just project an image onto thin air, that's physically impossible. At the end of the day, there needs to be a physical screen of sorts somewhere in setup. No getting around that.

Well, that's not entirely true, although it's questionable just how useful and achievable some existing approaches will be. There's the Aerial Burton 3D display:

The machine uses a 1kHz pulse laser and sends the laser through a 3D scanner, which reflects and focuses the laser onto an exact place in the air above. The laser ionizes the air's molecules in that specific spot, which results in the flashes of light that make up each point.

I believe there are some experiments with intersecting laser beams and creating more visible dots at the intersection (while the beams themselves are semi-visible) and I may have read something about using projectors in a similar fashion, but all of that is extremely crude and not useful at this point. We may get to a point where we manage to display images in thin air but it's still a long long way off, so for all intents and purposes, you're right, some sort of surface is definitely needed.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Look just two posts above yours.

The demo units had bare boards and were tethered. The concept looks great, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

The impressions post left out from Engadget:

I say this in the nicest way possible: Using Microsoft HoloLens kinda stinks. In its current form, it feels like someone is tightening your head into a vice. The model being shown today on Microsoft's Redmond, Washington, campus isn't what you saw onstage, but a development kit. The demos begin by lowering a tethered, relatively small, rectangular computer over your head, which hangs around your neck by sling. Like what Flavor Flav would do with a computer. You can literally feel the heat coming off the computer's fans, which face upward. It feels like you're wearing a computer around your neck, because you are.

After that, the headset was carefully handed to me so that I could guide it onto my head while the demonstrator placed it over my eyes. To be completely clear, the headset dev kit I tried literally had exposed circuit boards. You remember that Valve virtual reality kit from last January? The HoloLens dev kit looked kinda like that. The demonstrators were very careful to make sure I wasn't getting all grabby on the circuitry.

[...]

I've spent a lot of time in virtual reality headsets. I own both Oculus Rift dev kits. I've used the Avegant Glyph. I reviewed Gear VR. The concept of a headset altering reality isn't new to me. I say that with the intention of couching what will assuredly sound like disappointment: HoloLens is clearly very early, and kinda sucks right now. It's uncomfortable. It's cumbersome. It looks and feels like a piece of hardware that's far from final.

Is it bad? No. Lord no. Stop it. It's very impressive, but it's a brand-new entry in a market that basically doesn't exist yet. Good on Microsoft for that! At the same time, man, Microsoft has a long way to go before this is something we want to use at home. When it's got Windows 10? And can be used untethered?

I'm interested but it's got a long way to go. A demo is great, but there's a huge delta between a demo and a shipping product.

 

[Pathfinder]

People getting excited over these kind of concept videos makes me worry... you guys never learn

Oh, come on. Don't be like that.

Today is a fun day. We're having fun.

 

[Anton Sugar]

People getting excited over these kind of concept videos makes me worry... you guys never learn

I'm more excited over the impressions.

I find the Kinect/Natal comparisons kinda disingenuous, TBH. Almost everything they're showing in the concept videos are closely related to the demos they've been given or have presented to journalists.

 

[epmode]

This sounds like Kinect 2.0. Not because it's a bad idea but because it's a great idea released far before the technology is actually ready for primetime. AR is basically a harder-to-implement VR. Microsoft is going to have to solve the same problems the Oculus guys are tackling now along with even bigger problems unique to AR.

 

[Americanmushroom]

Oh, come on. Don't be like that.

Today is a fun day. We're having fun.

yeah ok sorry. I'm just sick of seeing these kind of vids like apple, google etc. Show what the glasses really show from 1st person perspective. They could definitely show it but they don't

 

[Sydle]

The demo units had bare boards and were tethered. The concept looks great, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

The impressions post left out:



I'm interested but it's got a long way to go. A demo is great, but there's a huge delta between a demo and a shipping product.

Why did he spend so much time talking about the form factor that's obviously not going to be the final product? What a terrible waste of the reader's time.

 

[The Shogun]

This sounds like Kinect 2.0. Not because it's a bad idea but because it's a great idea released far before the technology is actually ready for primetime. AR is basically a harder-to-implement VR. Microsoft is going to have to solve the same problems the Oculus guys are tackling now along with big problems unique to AR.

Thats not true at all. Full VR faces much bigger problems like motion sickness, and requiring very high resolutions and framerates.

AR in many ways is easier to implement.

 

[Pathfinder]

yeah ok sorry. I'm just sick of seeing these kind of vids like apple, google etc. Show what the glasses really show from 1st person perspective. They could definitely show it but they don't

We will eventually know. If it's not all it's cracked up to be, we'll move on to something else.

Until then, it's fun speculating about what the future can hold. We're entering Back to the Future 2 territory here, and it's exciting to think about.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Woah, is this for real? Thats actually a lot worse if true. That eliminates the idea that it also does VR.

Gizmodo has some more detailed impressions:

And then I was looking at the surface of Mars. Or a narrow sliver of it, anyways. It's not like the Oculus Rift, where you're totally immersed in a virtual world practically anywhere you look. The current Hololens field of view is TINY! I wasn't even impressed at first. All that weight for this? But that's when I noticed that I wasn't just looking at some ghostly transparent representation of Mars superimposed on my vision. I was standing in a room filled with objects. Posters covering the walls. And yet somehow—without blocking my vision—the Hololens was making those objects almost totally invisible.

Some of the very shiniest things in the room—the silver handle of a pitcher, if I recall correctly—managed to reflect enough light into my eyes to penetrate the illusion. But otherwise, Mars was all around. Everywhere I turned my head, I saw (a narrow sliver of) the Martian surface.

The demo units had bare boards and were tethered. The concept looks great, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

The impressions post left out:

I'm interested but it's got a long way to go. A demo is great, but there's a huge delta between a demo and a shipping product.

All of those impressions are regarding the physical makeup of the device. When he says "it sucks", he specifically says "It's uncomfortable. It's cumbersome. It looks and feels like a piece of hardware that's far from final."

Well, it IS a dev kit.

 

[Neander]

Why did he spend so much time talking about the form factor that's obviously not going to be the final product? Then goes to end that the application was impressive. What a terrible waste reader's time.

I agree. While reading that I kept saying to myself "ok... you're admitting it's a demo on hardware that's incomplete and won't ship like that, can you move on?"

 

[Raist]

Why did he spend so much time talking about the form factor that's obviously not going to be the final product? What a terrible waste of the reader's time.

There's like 5 lines on it. I think it's fairly important to inform people that what they got their hands on was nothing like the "finished product" that was shown.

 

[JaggedSac]

If it can really do all of this..... I'M IN!!!

Impressions have been very good on the Minecraft demo they gave.


On another note, I think they should make a pen or something that the thing can track more easily and reliably than a finger. Someone doing actual 3D modelling work would need more control than what we are seeing now.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Why did he spend so much time talking about the form factor that's obviously not going to be the final product? What a terrible waste of the reader's time.

MS controlled the demo, I don't see why you're upset with the writer. They painted a word-picture of the demo experience from beginning to end.

 

[Sydle]

There's like 5 lines on it. I think it's fairly important to inform people that what they got their hands on was nothing like the "finished product" that was shown.

He acknowledged it was a demo unit, knowing his audience wouldn't experience the same thing, and goes on to describe it. I can't imagine anyone would care except those desperate to pick and poke at it.

Carry on.

MS controlled the demo, I don't see why you're upset with the writer. They painted a word-picture of the demo experience from beginning to end.

lol I really don't care. I just think it's lazy editing.

 

[epmode]

Thats not true at all. Full VR faces much bigger problems like motion sickness, and requiring very high resolutions and framerates.

AR in many ways is easier to implement.

Michael Abrash has talked about the difficulty of AR development compared to VR. While this doesn't directly compare the two, you might be interested in it:

Why You Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon

 

[jett]

Posted?

The Verge: Up close with the HoloLens, Microsoft's most intriguing product in years

It's a contraption, to be sure. There's a small, heavy block you hang around your neck which contains all the computing power. It's comprised of lenses and tiny projectors and motion sensors and speakers (or something that makes sound, anyway), and god knows what else.

Huh. Can you see this thing on the stage lady?

 

[DirtyLarry]

I am just incredibly excited about the potential on display here. Not necessarily this product itself because right now it is more concept than not.

With that said, I do hope at some point all of these "headset" manufacturers combine to create one cohesive unit that allows all of the different software.

The only other thing that really concerns It is one thing owning multiple consoles. I do not wear them.
I am not personally sold on owning multiple headsets, even if they do ultimately do very different things.
But time will tell.

 

[The Shogun]

Michael Abrash has talked about the difficulty of AR development compared to VR. While this doesn't directly compare the two, you might be interested in it:

Why You Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon

I realize it for sure has its own set of issues that make it difficult

But it is not far and away more difficult to pull off. Id just say the obstacles are different.

The main issue with VR at the moment is it will require very expensive and very powerful hardware to pull off. It needs very high resolutions and framerates to help with motion sickness and disorientation.

There are people even with DK2 that can't use Oculus for more than 10 minutes without feeling ill. That's a major hurtle.

Either way I'm excited for both.

 

[Raist]

Huh. Can you see this thing on the stage lady?

Nope.

 

[Ferrio]

I realize it for sure has its own set of issues that make it difficult

But it is not far and away more difficult to pull off. Id just say the obstacles are different.

The main issue with VR at the moment is it will require very expensive and very powerful hardware to pull off. It needs very high resolutions and framerates to help with motion sickness and disorientation.

There are people even with DK2 that can't use Oculus for more than 10 minutes without feeling ill. That's a major hurtle.

Either way I'm excited for both.

Except that's not what causes the motion sickness. The lack of physical feedback is.

AR will hurt from lack of powerful hardware just like VR does.

 

[The Shogun]

Huh. Can you see this thing on the stage lady?

Nope she had nothing like that.

The stage demo may very well have been faked.

 

[xxracerxx]

pretty much like the SEER

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1942860935/seer-the-first-ar-helmet-that-makes-you-a-real-iro

I bet those guys are fucking pissed.

 

[The Shogun]

Except that's not what causes the motion sickness. The lack of physical feedback is.

That is true but so is low fps. While moving your vision with a low framerate it can cause heavy disorientation. Its for sure a factor.

 

[Orca]

People getting excited over these kind of concept videos makes me worry... you guys never learn

I'd rather stay one of the people who see something and say "That might be cool" instead of one of the jaded assholes that could get a live demo and go "Meh, probably won't work that well at home"

 

[Anton Sugar]

Nope she had nothing like that.

The stage demo may very well have been faked.

I'd rather think it was just a more advanced (expensive) prototype.

There was enough jankiness in the demo for me to not think it's fake.

 

[killer rin]

Nope she had nothing like that.

The stage demo may very well have been faked.

I'm listening to Windows Weekly right now and Paul Thurrott and Marry Jo are both saying that the blocky one is a pure prototype unit which is larger and hardwired (for power and testing) while the actual unit is the one which the lady on stage had which has a built in battery.

 

[The Shogun]

I'm listening to Windows Weekly right now and Paul Thurrott and Marry Jo are both saying that the blocky one is a pure prototype unit which is larger and hardwired (for power and testing) while the actual unit is the one which the lady on stage had which has a built in battery.

Ah thats good news then I was hoping it was all legit. I'm really excited by this tech.

 

[jett]

So something I'm not 100% on: I know they said it's a see-through visor, but is the HoloLens superimposing digital information over your "real" view (like Google Glass I guess)? Or is it recording everything you see in front of you and then feeding you that video?

 

[DopeyFish]

So something I'm not 100% on: I know they said it's a see-through visor, but is the HoloLens superimposing digital information over your "real" view (like Google Glass I guess)? Or is it recording everything you see in front of you and feeding you that video?

neither

but we really don't know how it's doing it exactly.

 

[jett]

neither

but we really don't know how it's doing it exactly.

It can only be one or the other.

 

[megalowho]

Looks neat and there's lots of real world applications for a device like this that works as intended, but cautious skepticism is warranted while we're in the "hype up the tech evangelists" stage. We've been here before, from Project Natal to Project Glass. More interested in what developers have to say about its potential once they get their hands on it. Always fun when secret R&D stuff is revealed, though.

 

[DopeyFish]

It can only be one or the other.

well it would be the former

but not really

To create Project HoloLens’ images, light particles bounce around millions of times in the so-called light engine of the device. Then the photons enter the goggles’ two lenses, where they ricochet between layers of blue, green and red glass before they reach the back of your eye. “When you get the light to be at the exact angle,” Kipman tells me, “that’s where all the magic comes in.”

 

[cyberheater]

pretty much like the SEER

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1942860935/seer-the-first-ar-helmet-that-makes-you-a-real-iro

I don't think that's 3D.

 

[Raist]

I'd rather think it was just a more advanced (expensive) prototype.

There was enough jankiness in the demo for me to not think it's fake.

Since the more impressive demo out of the two on that stage switched to the camera view, I'm gonna guess this is what's missing in the working hardware compared to what is mentioned in the hands-on:

Because it surely doesn't look like a regular camera.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Since the more impressive demo out of the two on that stage switched to the camera view, I'm gonna guess this is what's missing in the working hardware compared to what is mentioned in the hands-on:

Because it surely doesn't look like a regular camera.

I couldn't tell any difference at all during the demo except for the camera mounted one being further away and less shaky. I think both headsets were seeing the same thing.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Since the more impressive demo out of the two on that stage switched to the camera view, I'm gonna guess this is what's missing in the working hardware compared to what is mentioned in the hands-on:

Because it surely doesn't look like a regular camera.

Maybe that's it? Definitely doesn't look like a regular video camera, I agree. Wish I could see more of it, but it looks like there is a sense of lenses/visor as a part of it, so it's seeing through the same "spectrum" or whatever that she is.

I just think it's obvious, given the slight trouble she had with some segments, that it wasn't faked. It was smooth, and impressive, but not "flawless" like the demos that we now know were staged at other events.

 

[BPoole]

It will be amazing if it works, but considering Kinect still doesn't work as well as it was originally advertised, I feel this is a long way off before it's at the level that it was just shown

 

[HORRORSHØW]

i like the potential.

 

[Fallout-with-swords]

If this works it could be really cool. Not sure how they are going to get the mainstream to embrace it. Google Glass is essentialy a square in the corner of a pair of glasses and people think it looks ridiculous.

Also, maybe a bit cinical, that demo was really cool, but not at all practical. Are people just going to not buy a TV / ignore everyone else in the house?

 

[GoldenCrow]

Conceptually it is a nice idea but practically I can't imagine it being any different than Siri, Google Glass or Kinect. They all have good ideas but lets face it they are a bit shit.

Unless the functionality and precision is at least on par and preferably better than what we already have it won't be successful. If the concept video is anything to go by then it doesn't do any one task better than what we already have.

At the moment Magic Leap sounds more interesting.

 

[Froli]

Hell yeah! Dennou Coil

 

[Foolishfellow]

yeah ok sorry. I'm just sick of seeing these kind of vids like apple, google etc. Show what the glasses really show from 1st person perspective. They could definitely show it but they don't

You are 100% correct here. It's just like the people that fell for the original glass reveal video, amazon drones, etc. This is all a bunch of bullshit. It's fine to speculate from a conceptual standpoint, but people are wasting their time if they think the footage in that promo video represents anything close to what the product will actually be able to deliver.

It's a cool video as a speculative piece of fiction about future tech, but nothing more.

 

[Ominym]

I'm a huge fan of AR and it's nice to see Microsoft make a product that could be owned alongside an Oculus rather than try to copy-paste the competition.

Consider me optimistic, but I wouldn't dare buy one until I tried it for myself. It also reallllllly depends on what this thing costs. So far though it looks like Nadella is much better at listing to the research and development department than Ballmer was.

 

[magnumpy]

Imagine playing games that look like this:-

looks cool, I wonder what the update frequency is (Oculus claims 90Hz is necessary for true immersion, and their positional tracking sensor updates at 1,000Hz)

 

[killer rin]

Imagine playing games that look like this:-

Paul Thurrott and Marry Jo were saying on Windows Weekly that it looks even better than this.

 

[gaming_noob]

Imagine playing Silent Hills and you catch a ghost standing right behind your own piece of furniture.