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[Hoo-doo]

Press got to try this out. Go read some articles. And it's not theoretical. It's already here.

The video they showed is completely conceptual. Right now there are press demos running on tethered, prototype hardware in perfectly lit pre-furnished rooms.

Remember when the Kinect video showed a non-stop reel of awesome quality-of-life features and software that ended up absolutely nowhere? Most of these applications simply did not exist or wouldn't even be possible on the actual hardware, they are concepts, a 'vision' of future potential.

 

[nynt9]

I'm really curious about the specs on this like framerate and tracking latency and whatnot because those make or break AR/VR experiences like this. If your minecraft world is aligned with your home room but as you move your head the tracking won't keep up at like 90+ FPS then you will feel dizzy and be pulled out of the experience.

 

[Alx]

Remember when the Kinect video showed a non-stop reel of awesome quality-of-life features and software that ended up absolutely nowhere? Most of these applications simply did not exist or wouldn't even be possible on the actual hardware, they are concepts, a 'vision' of future potential.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=148614533&postcount=453

The final experience probably won't be as smooth as what is pictured in the videos, but there's nothing unreachable there.

 

[Raide]

The video they showed is completely conceptual. Right now there are press demos running on tethered, prototype hardware in perfectly lit pre-furnished rooms.

Remember when the Kinect video showed a non-stop reel of awesome quality-of-life features and software that ended up absolutely nowhere? Most of these applications simply did not exist or wouldn't even be possible on the actual hardware, they are concepts, a 'vision' of future potential.

I guess the idea is that this device is not dependent on the room, since it its just putting things on the surfaces. I am sure you could just have a square tiny room and it would fit in what it could.

 

[oldergamer]

The video they showed is completely conceptual. Right now there are press demos running on tethered, prototype hardware in perfectly lit pre-furnished rooms.

Remember when the Kinect video showed a non-stop reel of awesome quality-of-life features and software that ended up absolutely nowhere? Most of these applications simply did not exist or wouldn't even be possible on the actual hardware, they are concepts, a 'vision' of future potential.

What part of kinect didn't come true? This was brought up before. Sure it had limitations but what doesn't. IMO the only fault of kinect was that the camera didn't capture at a fast enough framerate to prevent lag.

 

[jem0208]

The video they showed is completely conceptual. Right now there are press demos running on tethered, prototype hardware in perfectly lit pre-furnished rooms.

Remember when the Kinect video showed a non-stop reel of awesome quality-of-life features and software that ended up absolutely nowhere? Most of these applications simply did not exist or wouldn't even be possible on the actual hardware, they are concepts, a 'vision' of future potential.

But the concepts are working now. And from the press impressions, they're working very well. Sure, currently they've only been demoed in a very controlled environment. However the fact that they are working as well as described now is incredibly exciting. Given a few more years we could see some amazing technology.

 

[Cavalier]

The video they showed is completely conceptual. Right now there are press demos running on tethered, prototype hardware in perfectly lit pre-furnished rooms.

Remember when the Kinect video showed a non-stop reel of awesome quality-of-life features and software that ended up absolutely nowhere? Most of these applications simply did not exist or wouldn't even be possible on the actual hardware, they are concepts, a 'vision' of future potential.

I'm not here to convince people that HoloLens is real or fake. From what I've read, It's the real fucking deal. The concepts they've shown in videos for HoloLens are already here for people to try out. Presses are shitting themselves over it. That's the main difference. I still can't believe that this thing even fucking exist today in 2015.

 

[KooopaKid]

The problem is the price and possible release date.
Concerning gaming application, I need to this the Mars demo in person first to see the gaming potential.
How would COD look with it? (With a controler) How does the background look when moving?

 

[Raide]

The problem is the price and possible release date.
Concerning gaming application, I need to this the Mars demo in person first to see the gaming potential.
How would COD look with it? (With a controler) How does the background look when moving?

Hrmm...I am thinking just like Netflix etc, the footage would just project onto a flat surface. Games are going to have to be built for AR and how the unit works, not just shoehorning titles into it, much like Kinect was.

 

[AmyS]

It seems pretty clear to me that the next generation of gaming (PCs, consoles and new areas of mobile) will be Virtual Reality and Augmented Reality, rather than just more of the same (4K Ultra HD) even though 4K will be standard by then anyway (2018-2020+)

It's far more exciting and not depressing like the thought of having a small terminal and controller in your home where games are streamed over the internet from the cloud.

 

[Cavalier]

The problem is the price and possible release date.
Concerning gaming application, I need to this the Mars demo in person first to see the gaming potential.
How would COD look with it? (With a controler) How does the background look when moving?

The laziest way to apply HoloLens for gaming would be to project a TV screen onto a wall. You could make the size as big as you like and play games on them with a controller.

Other creative ways for gaming? Who knows besides the Minecraft demo that presses can play today. Only time will tell.

 

[ayartalha]

The video they showed is completely conceptual. Right now there are press demos running on tethered, prototype hardware in perfectly lit pre-furnished rooms.

Remember when the Kinect video showed a non-stop reel of awesome quality-of-life features and software that ended up absolutely nowhere? Most of these applications simply did not exist or wouldn't even be possible on the actual hardware, they are concepts, a 'vision' of future potential.

That's what i wanted to explain. Microsoft is currently trying to sell its idea, the capabilities of their tech, on paper.

 

[Pie and Beans]

So, without the press being oddly hyped about a product way more than usual, its been possible to glean some stuff on what the prototype ACTUALLY is right now from bits and bobs across articles rather than the absolute fiction they put out on the briefing.

Seems that you get a rectangle to view the world through and the AR stuff goes in that, and right now its not a huge rectangle. So no all encompassing FOV surrounding you, but a conventional window into another world overlaying stuff. Also, unsurprisingly, it requires a hefty compute box around your neck plugged in because they havent miniaturised whatever components they'd be looking at jamming into the headset as they approach market.

I dont doubt that its still actually quite impressive in some ways, doing AR at a level of fidelity far beyond smartphone/console jank versions, especially with Kinect or whatever tracked finger and voice recognition paired. The problem is Microsoft got carried away and presented pure bullshit to the world rather than the reality of their product, and thats why people really do not trust them fucking ever. We may never know exactly how much of the "live" demonstration was faked, but aspects of it clearly were. (The cherry on top is suggesting they just 3D printed a random doodad with fully working fucking motorised blades and circuitry, yeah okay Tony Stark) Then when the CGI sizzle reels begin, all notions of reality slip away and were back into Project Natal hype shit.

 

[Alx]

Random Hololens idea of the day : remember those ads for X-ray glasses that see through clothes ? If the embedded hardware can do the same skeleton tracking as a regular Kinect, it would be easy to emulate those. ^^

 

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

That's what i wanted to explain. Microsoft is currently trying to sell its idea, the capabilities of their tech, on paper.

You don't sell Ideas. You end up with Kinect and the bursting of the previous VR bubble. You sell PRODUCTS. If MS is only trying to sell an idea, they are going to fail just like with Natal. The fake demonstration is straight up dishonest, just like EVERY fake Kinect demonstration they have ever done on stage.

 

[In Service]

The problem is the price and possible release date.
Concerning gaming application, I need to this the Mars demo in person first to see the gaming potential.
How would COD look with it? (With a controler) How does the background look when moving?

This is the question I want to see answered for gamers - even though I like the general business applications.

How will it stream/project/process the images of a "game" onto the lenses? I can see why they have chosen Minecraft for starters - low graphical requirements and cool conceptual video potential.

[Techies help here] However, it's got to do more than just stream the COD game from, lets say, the XBO doesn't it? It can't be immersive if all it's doing is streaming the video from the XBO in a cross play type way can it?

 

[Schweinehund]

I will buy at a good price, however the mainstream wouldn't even wear 3d glasses in front of company, what makes MS think this will work?

Really want to try any of these AR's/Holos. Its hard to buy into the hype until I try it myself.

 

[EmptySpace]

We've got a product for you. It's called the past.

pwaaahahaha oh gosh. the past, my ass. vr hasn't even released yet.

Transported to another world where you can't leave your chair.
.

vs holograms in the living room? i wanna go to mars, not have mars projected into the walls of my house.

with vr you have unlimited real estate without breaking immersion. ar will be novelty feature that won't go anywhere because of how limited it is.


ms was pretty much banking on having kinect in homes so they can sell this thing better.

 

[Specialmias]

You don't sell Ideas. You end up with Kinect and the bursting of the previous VR bubble. You sell PRODUCTS. If MS is only trying to sell an idea, they are going to fail just like with Natal. The fake demonstration is straight up dishonest, just like EVERY fake Kinect demonstration they have ever done on stage.

Well Kinect CAN do what was shown in that video as stated before. It just doesn't do it well. Even with kinect 2.0 you still have it not understanding certain things and needing audio re-calibrated every once in a while. Gestures and voice have long been known to be abandoned by consumers if they don't function perfectly the first time.

That being said the xbox one kinect is worlds better than the first.

 

[ZeroXZee]

Random Hololens idea of the day : remember those ads for X-ray glasses that see through clothes ? If the embedded hardware can do the same skeleton tracking as a regular Kinect, it would be easy to emulate those. ^^

 

[Elitro]

Looks great, but i see it as a really exaggerated marketing stunt.

 

[LordOfChaos]

You all know what this means, right?

If Hololens is the future, this means that all of TNG was just a fantasy, and Geordi was the only real character.

Think about that.

 

[Raide]

pwaaahahaha oh gosh. the past, my ass. vr hasn't even released yet.




vs holograms in the living room? i wanna go to mars, not have mars projected into the walls of my house.

with vr you have unlimited real estate without breaking immersion. ar will be novelty feature that won't go anywhere because of how limited it is.


ms was pretty much banking on having kinect in homes so they can sell this thing better.

VR is limited as well. Its not the perfect device. Outside of FP/FPS style games, it seems unnecessary.

 

[KooopaKid]

This is the question I want to see answered for gamers - even though I like the general business applications.

How will it stream/project/process the images of a "game" onto the lenses? I can see why they have chosen Minecraft for starters - low graphical requirements and cool conceptual video potential.

Yeah I wonder how immersive the Mars demo was. Let's suppose the "AR" landscape covers 100% on the screen. Is it more immersive than a computer screen? Is the depth perception better?

 

[CyberPunked]

The video they showed is completely conceptual. Right now there are press demos running on tethered, prototype hardware in perfectly lit pre-furnished rooms.

Remember when the Kinect video showed a non-stop reel of awesome quality-of-life features and software that ended up absolutely nowhere? Most of these applications simply did not exist or wouldn't even be possible on the actual hardware, they are concepts, a 'vision' of future potential.

I just want google maps to be like the navigation line in dead space.

 

[derFeef]

Yeah I wonder how immersive the Mars demo was. Let's suppose the "AR" landscape covers 100% on the screen. Is it more immersive than a computer screen? Is the depth perception better?

It does not cover 100% of your FOV, that's it's main problem right now it seems.

 

[KooopaKid]

I just want google maps to be like the navigation line in dead space.

Oh wow. The best GPS ever.

 

[KooopaKid]

It does not cover 100% of your FOV, that's it's main problem right now it seems.

Yeah but even with this limited FOV, how does a 100% virtual landcape look compared to on a flat screen?

 

[Hoo-doo]

I'm not here to convince people that HoloLens is real or fake. From what I've read, It's the real fucking deal. The concepts they've shown in videos for HoloLens are already here for people to try out. Presses are shitting themselves over it. That's the main difference. I still can't believe that this thing even fucking exist today in 2015.

Aside from the gesture based UI interaction, what software shown in this video has actually come out working like it does in the video? None. Some developers might have managed to bolt these interaction methods on a (shovelware) game here and there, with 95% of them being complete garbage because of the inherent flaws in the Kinect hardware. You simply can't say with a straight face that Kinect delivered on it's initial promises and vision.
And guess what, when press got their hands on Kinect for the first time they were mostly raving as well.

Same with the original Surface table, we were all supposed to be paying for our drinks by just swiping on the counter and watching family photo's on the living room table while smiling right about now. Even with the tech being really cool and tech blogs blowing up, it went nowhere. The promo vids sold us a vision that failed to find real-world traction in any way.

All i'm saying is that the final HoloLens product will most likely not meet most of the lofty criteria you all have in your head right now. Microsoft has become incredibly skilled in making concept/pitch videos like these, making the consumers feel like full immersive flawless AR is just around the corner even when it simply is not.

I agree that the 'vision' of this device sounds fucking amazing, and if they do knock it out of the park i'm in line for one at release day.
But based on the past, I feel a significant dose of scepticism is in order at this point.

 

[ichtyander]

Just watched a video of Leap Motion's David Holz posted in the Oculus Rift thread, he talks about the future of HMDs and motion tracking and shows some interesting future technologies that sound like they might solve the need for large optics and bulky HMDs (the entire video is quite interesting). This particular part about holographic OLEDs kinda sounds like what MS said about the HoloLens. As Holz describes it:

Basically you have little OLEDs that are embedded in a piece of plastic substrate and they shoot out, and then they reflect off a holographic coating that then bounces it back and focuses it into your eye.

Apparently this tech is still in prototype stages but I'm wondering if MS is doing something similar with HoloLens.

 

[Cavalier]

Aside from the gesture based UI interaction, what software shown in this video has actually come out working like it does in the video? None.

Your laziness to read articles is not my problem.

 

[The Jackdog]

That's what i wanted to explain. Microsoft is currently trying to sell its idea, the capabilities of their tech, on paper.

they are literally selling nothing right now

 

[The Jackdog]

You know how we look at old cell phones and like, gasp at how bad they look?

Like the original iphone right now youd never buy as a phone and when it came out it was the sexiest phone out there. Hell, remember moto razr? EVERYONE wanted that.

I want this to take off just so in ten years we look at that headset and go LOOK AT THIS IDIOTS :uts in holographic contact lenses::

 

[ayartalha]

You don't sell Ideas. You end up with Kinect and the bursting of the previous VR bubble. You sell PRODUCTS. If MS is only trying to sell an idea, they are going to fail just like with Natal. The fake demonstration is straight up dishonest, just like EVERY fake Kinect demonstration they have ever done on stage.

I agree with you, what do i mean by idea is that anytime microsoft tries to introduce a new product they end up advertising the theory behind it. When the final product is ready it generally lacks the functionality/capability of the original one (e.g. natal -> kinect)

 

[alouette]

Both systems can exist next to each other, so the way MS has chosen fills some space.
VR is more for the full illusion of being in a fictional surrounding. AR is going to enhance the real life situation mixed with virtual add ons.

Each system will live or die in relation to their price. If one or the other is too expensive for the masses, it will fail. I think it's nearly as easy as that.

 

[Raide]

Both systems can exist next to each other, so the way MS has chosen fills some space.
VR is more for the full illusion of being in a fictional surrounding. AR is going to enhance the real life situation mixed with virtual add ons.

Each system will live or die in relation to their price. If one or the other is too expensive for the masses, it will fail. I think it's nearly was as that.

The success of Hololens seems to be how well Windows 10 does. The more people have Win 10 devices, the more likely they are to see Hololens as an addition.

 

[Specialmias]

Ehh the pre rendered scene was nice but microsoft should've honestly shown real captures from the software. It would've avoided a lot of skepticism they could have even toyed with it and made sure it was staged enough to work consistently that way.

 

[derFeef]

Ehh the pre rendered scene was nice but microsoft should've honestly shown real captures from the software. It would've avoided a lot of skepticism they could have even toyed with it and made sure it was staged enough to work consistently that way.

They did, at the presser.

 

[Specialmias]

They did, at the presser.

Which isn't front and center anywhere. Which is my point, people are being led to the pre-rendered video for obvious reasons first but it's generating skepticism. If they flooded with media like the demo but more polished like that video it would've avoided that.

 

[Miles X]

And start developing for it... shit I might make a HoloLens game idea thread, why not!

Waiting!!!! :-D

 

[Raide]

Which isn't front and center anywhere. Which is my point, people are being led to the pre-rendered video for obvious reasons first but it's generating skepticism. If they flooded with media like the demo but more polished like that video it would've avoided that.

It seems to be a hard tech to show people that don't have the headsets on. They did some footage using a camera to show what the use sees and they were pretty open about all WIP stuff.

Plenty of reports have people using it and saying it was pretty damn good but still early tech.

Waiting!!!! :-D

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=148630211&posted=1#post148630211

 

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Ehh the pre rendered scene was nice but microsoft should've honestly shown real captures from the software. It would've avoided a lot of skepticism they could have even toyed with it and made sure it was staged enough to work consistently that way.

Microsoft had never demonstrated Kinect on stage, EVER. Not for motion control and not for voice activation. Kinect was only ever portrayed with staged, fake effects.

You know when you can tell when a company is being honest? When Sony's demonstration of live Assassins Creed gameplay crashed. Or when Nintendo couldn't get Wiimote to work properly because all the mobile phones in the audience was interfering with the signal.

Microsoft is terrified of showing reality. They prefer to lie 100% of the time than to let their hardware speak for itself. Deception is easier.

 

[RayMaker]

Why are people saying they showed a "demonstration"

It was more a concept video.

 

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Why are people saying they showed a "demonstration"

It was more a concept video.

For Mcrosoft, they are one and the same. As I say, Kinect was never "demonstrated" ever.

 

[Raide]

Why are people saying they showed a "demonstration"

It was more a concept video.

People must have missed them saying several times that is was all WIP and tech visions but encouraged attendees to try out the tech units.

 

[The Jackdog]

Microsoft had never demonstrated Kinect on stage, EVER. Not for motion control and not for voice activation. Kinect was only ever portrayed with staged, fake effects.

You know when you can tell when a company is being honest? When Sony's demonstration of live Assassins Creed gameplay crashed. Or when Nintendo couldn't get Wiimote to work properly because all the mobile phones in the audience was interfering with the signal.

Microsoft is terrified of showing reality. They prefer to lie 100% of the time than to let their hardware speak for itself. Deception is easier.

Do you even remember the part from yesterday when they announced everything was running from windows 10 in unfinished code and prefaced that things during the presentation might completely break as a warning?

 

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Do you even remember the part from yesterday when they announced everything was running from windows 10 in unfinished code and prefaced that things during the presentation might completely break as a warning?

And? How does that change the fact that they STILL used a fake demonstration for their promotion? Just because they acted like they are showing the real deal, doesn't mean they are. I still remember that Deomstration of a girl allegedly touching and interacting with a CGI tiger cub using Kinect. Or that voice activation demonstration that ends up shutting down the Kinects of the online stream viewing public but magically didn't affect the hardware on stage... Because there WAS NO HARDWARE ON-STAGE.

 

[FonkyByNature]

Aside from the gesture based UI interaction, what software shown in this video has actually come out working like it does in the video? None. Some developers might have managed to bolt these interaction methods on a (shovelware) game here and there, with 95% of them being complete garbage because of the inherent flaws in the Kinect hardware. You simply can't say with a straight face that Kinect delivered on it's initial promises and vision.
And guess what, when press got their hands on Kinect for the first time they were mostly raving as well.

Same with the original Surface table, we were all supposed to be paying for our drinks by just swiping on the counter and watching family photo's on the living room table while smiling right about now. Even with the tech being really cool and tech blogs blowing up, it went nowhere. The promo vids sold us a vision that failed to find real-world traction in any way.

All i'm saying is that the final HoloLens product will most likely not meet most of the lofty criteria you all have in your head right now. Microsoft has become incredibly skilled in making concept/pitch videos like these, making the consumers feel like full immersive flawless AR is just around the corner even when it simply is not.

I agree that the 'vision' of this device sounds fucking amazing, and if they do knock it out of the park i'm in line for one at release day.
But based on the past, I feel a significant dose of scepticism is in order at this point.

I 100% agree with this, reason why i wasn't impressed or exited by anything MS yesterday other than Windows 10 which looks like a great version of Windows.

I think they dropped the ball on Xbox/PC gaming. The integration with Steam while kinda cool, i will never use it or care about it. People use phones today to do most of the things they want to do. Apps connected to your console is a better future imo than PC/Console and we're already there.

I used to get on the hype train with anything Microsoft in the past, especially Kinect and Windows Phone but i have never been satisfied with their products. They simply don't work well enough for me and for many others. And MS promise all the time that it'll get better, the next version will be better...kinda tired of this.

Microsoft are good at selling you concepts, look at their many videos where they show what the future will be like but it's just fantasy for now.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

And? How does that change the fact that they STILL used a fake demonstration for their promotion? Just because they acted like they are showing the real deal, doesn't mean they are. I still remember that Deomstration of a girl allegedly touching and interacting with a CGI tiger cub using Kinect. Or that voice activation demonstration that ends up shutting down the Kinects of the online stream viewing public but magically didn't affect the hardware on stage... Because there WAS NO HARDWARE ON-STAGE.

Do you remember looking at the bottom of an avatars foot?

 

[Alx]

Do you remember looking at the bottom of an avatars foot?

That certainly convinced them to do less real-time démos on stage. Just like Nintendo may have changed its mind after the Zelda demo that failed.
But everything that was shown at E3 2009 was clearly real time, it is not possible to fake that : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhFseGozZDU