Everything about this and related stories just fills me with a feeling of pervasive dread. I'd almost rather everything remain hush hush until the findings are ready to be laid bare. Trump may not be able to outright end the investigation, but he and his enablers can sure as shit gum it up.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Mueller Expands Probe to Trump Business Transactions
- Thread starter Tovarisc
- Start date
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Seriously though, could Trump actually get away with firing Mueller? 
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
Seriously though, could Trump actually get away with firing Mueller?
If he does (because let's be honest, he's gonna fire Mueller) , it would be a very very bad sign for American Democracy.
"What's wrong with money laundering?"
What?
It could just mean that Russian collusion/interference is an incredibly vast topic and that they want to cover all their bases. What is it with the tinfoil in this thread?
BlastProcessing
Member
It's highly unlikely that Mueller doesn't already have the tax returns. Those are pretty trivial for him to get.
Seriously though, could Trump actually get away with firing Mueller?
So he has to either get the Deputy AG to fire him, or fire the current deputy AG and find someone to replace him that will fire Muller, correct? I know Trump is basically bulletproof when it comes to his supporters, but I don't think he will survive something like that.
BoboBrazil
Member
Seriously though, could Trump actually get away with firing Mueller?
Yes, with Republicans putting party over country and Fox News being a propaganda outlet causing people in this country to think political parties are sports teams.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Doubtful. Trump's tax returns are private. Mueller would need court approval before obtaining them, and before a court would sign off, they'd need some evidence supporting the potential connection of Trump's tax returns to the Russia investigation. Expanding the probe into Trump's business transactions can get them there, but I think it's unlikely they have the tax returns yet.
It would be a standard statute, both houses would have to pass the bill. I don't forsee that being a problem though after the Comey ordeal and Comey was on alot shakier ground with both parties than Mueller.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Trump : Believe me, there is NOTHING under the floorboards. Don't look there, waste of time.
Mueller, halfway through opening up the floor : You got it sir
Mueller, halfway through opening up the floor : You got it sir
A member of the senate investigative committee said something to the effect of "if Trump fired Mueller, we would immediately rehire him. Dont waste our time."Seriously though, could Trump actually get away with firing Mueller?
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
But he never stopped being a baby, as was stated on record.
Human Resources
Member
You go where the evidence takes you. Of course this was all about money.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
He can't fire him at all. He would have to fire Sessions, whose replacement would have to fire Rosenstein, whose replacement would then be able to fire Mueller. Now Trump obviously doesn't want Sessions anymore, which is why he is shittalking about him. He is too scared to fire him, he expects Sessions to resign.
TheRagnCajun
Member
Trump is fully capable of indirectly firing Mueller, whether or not it makes sense to do so. The thing is I don't think Jeff Sessions is going to do it. He's not that much of a stooge. Sessions will resign and Trump will find a stooge to replace him and fire Mueller.
Trump knows this. The first time rumors surfaced that he was considering firing Mueller saw basically everyone on his side telling him not to.
Admittedly, I'm surprised Sessions isn't firing Rosenstein.
He recused himself from anything to do (publicly, you know damn well he's talking about it behind closed doors) from the Russian investigation, so he really can't.
Oh. I assumed he could fire Rosenstein and claim it was for something else.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
He can't
The Albatross
Member
Trump money is dirty as fuck
Here him with a mob member at wm 4
Kinda goes without saying that if you're opening up a casino in Atlantic City in 1984, you're in deep
TheCochese
Banned
I really can't find any info if Sessions could un-recuse himself in this. Everything really pertains to justices doing it, and in those case another judge comes on and they are in charge. Recusal reversal in that sense wouldn't really happen.
As in, I don't know if there would be any penalty besides Congress hauling him back in for questioning. Otherwise, Sessions wouldn't be involved in Rosenstein's dismissal because his refusal to follow Trump's orders would be directly related to the Russia probe. He (Sessions) could be brought up on ethics violations and lose his law license, but in a dire situation he could deem it worth the risk. But I don't see that - he's going to stay the hell out of the way and hope not too much falls on him. And sing when it does.
The Associate AG has a good rep as well. Then who knows who it could be if I read the EO on the succession correctly. Trump could theoretically appoint anyone temporarily.
As in, I don't know if there would be any penalty besides Congress hauling him back in for questioning. Otherwise, Sessions wouldn't be involved in Rosenstein's dismissal because his refusal to follow Trump's orders would be directly related to the Russia probe. He (Sessions) could be brought up on ethics violations and lose his law license, but in a dire situation he could deem it worth the risk. But I don't see that - he's going to stay the hell out of the way and hope not too much falls on him. And sing when it does.
The Associate AG has a good rep as well. Then who knows who it could be if I read the EO on the succession correctly. Trump could theoretically appoint anyone temporarily.
That was a democrat. Doesn't mean shit.
we knew and saw articles and rumors during the campaign that Trump had ties to russia. He's so bad Nevada wont even give him a gambling license for his hotel. There are countless articles written during and before his campgain on how much of a bad business man he is and was.
The difference now is that he can't settle out of court. If nothing comes from this investigation, I'll eat my hat.
BlastProcessing
Member
To be fair to you - your phrasing "they haven't found anything yet" didn't read as "witch hunt" to me, but I would be ASTONISHED if Meuller and his team weren't already up to their eyeballs in real stuff. There's almost zero chance they haven't found anything and this trickle we're hearing about is more of a reminder of that.
I think there's ZERO chance that they haven't already uncovered serious financial misdeeds (with Russian and Deutschland Bank money) since that stuff was apparently well understood before Meuller even took the gig.
here's some old facts even if you ignore everything else the orange clown has said.
1. No US bank institution will lend money to Trump businesses. He is considered toxic for multiple well established business reasons.
2. Trump profits by not paying his debts and then countersuiing his debtors.
3. Deutschebank is known to have laundered huge amounts of Russian money AND loaned to the toxic Trump businesses for reasons completely opaque.
4. Trump is also connected to the Bank of Cyprus (money laundering institution previously chaired by... Wilbur Ross - Trump's commerce secretary.
Even a light investigation of Trump for purely financial misdeeds would spill open a hornets nest.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
I'm pretty sure he could fire Sessions, hire a new AG who won't need to recuse himself, and who will then outrank the Deputy AG and will be able to fire Mueller.
That's only a secondary concern at best for him now I think.
Nah, this cuts much deeper. It's clear that Trump did lots of shady business in the last decades and all that shit will finally come to light for the whole world to see. On top of that, he probably also fears the consequences of his criminal business associates getting outed at the same time. Trump must be terrified and fuming right now, which makes me think the dumb motherfucker will actually fire Muller against all warnings.
The impending implosion of the Trump family will be glorious.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
You're just obsessed with a narrative that you're burned into your head
TangoAlphaLima
Member
The new AG would have to be approved by Congress before taking office, and you'd better believe they'd press him hard on whether he would agree to fire Mueller on Trump's orders if confirmed.
It's honestly much easier to fire Rosenstein if he won't fire Mueller, then go down the list of Rosenstein replacements until Trump finds someone who will.
The issue, however, is that you have to prove criminal intent.
As an example, Exxon was fined $2 million this morning for violating Russian sanctions (while Rex was CEO). It's easy to point and say "OMG traitors," but in most cases, these are just simple oversights. Similarly, if Trump sells a condo to Russians at a massive discount and violates some sanction, he can just claim ignorance and pay the fine.
You need proof that the Trumps were aware of the law and deliberately choosing not to comply. That's a high bar.
I'm also not sure if that is "in bounds" for Mueller. If he finds that Trump corp owes $100 million in fines, does Mueller actually levy the fines? Seems way out of bounds.
Lastly, do remember that Trump's businesses are large enough to be audited annually by multiple parties belonging to both the federal government, state governments, and private companies/auditors.
If there is something criminal there, it will be hard to find and we are in for a very long investigation.
I just highly doubt that a financial crime is going to be sufficient to impeach Trump, especially if the crime occurred pre-primaries. We're talking about a President that has already admitted to sexual assault.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Seriously though, could Trump actually get away with firing Mueller?
Trump gets away with everything.
Here are some of the things he has gotten away with:
- Refused to denounce white supremacists.
- Refused to acknowledge David Duke
- Admitting to Sexually molesting women
- Firing Comey
- Coming woefully unprepared to all three debates
- Calling Hilary a nasty woman
- Banning muslims (Thanks supreme court)
- Deporting illegal immigrants with no criminal records
- Making racist comments about Obama's origin
He will fire Muller and get some bad press. Colbert and Jon Oliver will make fun of him. Liberals will laugh and get angry and nothing will happen. You need Republican support to impeach him and republicans love the guy. Just look at his polls. No republican congressman will impeach him over this obstruction of justice.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
Republicans are alreadying turning on him, thetr would be literally no defense from thr fox news crew for this after their attitude has soured.
His supporters think this is an NFL game. STOP CRYING SNOWFLAKES. WE WON!
Emulated Hype
Member
So when's Batman going to swoop in and extradite their money launderers in Cyprus?
It's Three Stooges syndrome, he has so many scandals that none of them can get through the door. Trump is a known liar, fraudster, sexual assaulter and possible traitor to the country, and a decade ago, a democratic candidate said "YEAH!" in a silly way, and that was the end of him.
Um, sure, because it's a big deal, but are you suggesting any of these bullets are incorrect or false? Because they are all real.
Seriously though, could Trump actually get away with firing Mueller?
Yes, of course he can and you should probably expect him to.
shawnbuddy
Member
Trump is a mob-linked criminal and has been for decades. Even if they find absolutely no evidence of collusion they'll find enough to put him away if they start digging.
Alright, let's clarify this once and for all.
In the event that Mueller is fired, in order for him to be "hired" (and that's not the right word) as an "independent counsel" by Congress, the Independent Counsel Act would have to be reinstated by Congress itself (it was allowed to lapse several years ago after the Clinton-era investigations). This means that Congress would actually have to vote to re-authorize the Act. I'll say that again: Congress would have to vote on reinstatement which means that Republicans would need to vote in favor of it.
Schiff really was incredibly stupid when he made it seem like Mueller could be "hired" just like that by Congress.
Pretty much, which is one of the main reasons why he doesn't want anyone near his finances (that and it drops a MOAB bomb on the image he's built up through the years).
Once that image goes, he's destroyed (and dear god, I hope it happens). I've hated him for as long as I can remember, long before he decided to fuck the country up.