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Music: Eastern vs Western Devs

In this entire list, I can only remember tracks from Hotline Miami and Burnout Paradise. The rest goes into a blank in my mind. I really like the games, but I can't remember one memorable track from RDR, ME, CoD, Uncharted and so on.

I also prefer japanese OSTs, but even then I have some titles that either I completely ignore the soundtrack or love it to death.

Recently, I am listening to Falcom OSTs (Ys OSTs are amazing), Ar nosurge and Ar Tonelico series, Atelier series, Bayonetta 2 OST, Nier, Drakengard 3 and others.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but You can't remember one memorable track from Red Dead Redemption...? One of the most epic moments in gaming when you cross into Mexico and that song drops so unexpectedly. I don't know anybody who's played the game who doesn't vividly remember that part.

(not even mentioning the rest of the incredible sound track during missions)
 
I feel the distinction between the schools of thought that go into composing music for games falls into two camps, with the split not really being East vs. West.

One the one hand, you have composers who try to craft music that reflects the mood of the world. This is often compared to film, though I'd argue this is actually much harder to do in games than in movies. Because you might need to alter the song to match how the players actions change the mood of the surroundings, a composer needs to make his or her music modular, something film composers don't need to do. This style of ambient or organic music is most often associated with western game development, notably through masters of the craft like Jeremy Soule and Jesper Kyd. But it can just as easily be seen in the works of Akira Yamaoka or Yoko Shimomura. At the end of the day, this music can be used to associate memories of the places you visited or certain events in the narrative, building a deeper connection similar to film, but in a more personal way as the best scores are often specially crafted to reflect your personal input into them.

On the other hand, you have composers who try to craft music that reflects the actions of the player. This style of composition is most likely what many people think of when they consider music in video games. Older composers had very limited memory to create memorable songs, so many clever composers programmed their music to match the actions of the player to reinforce their limited tracks and attempt to give their looped repetition deeper meaning. The purpose of this style of music isn't really to reinforce the world or bridge a connection to it; rather it represents a bridge between the player and his or her actions as they're represented on screen. Many of the more arcade-focused genres like platformers still retain this style of composition, which you can hear in the works of long time masters of the craft like Manami Matsumae and Michiru Yamane. But there are composers in the "West" who also use this technique as well like Jake Kaufman (aka Virt) and Christophe Heral. Their goal is to reinforce to the player that their actions not only make a difference visually, but audibly as well, and reinforce that through music that's complimentary to the player's actions on the game world itself.

Both styles of music are fine, and personal preferences toward one style or another are often determined by what types of games you like to play. Any distinction drawn that it's an East vs. West dichotomy is just looking at the most surface elements at play. The distinction goes deeper than a mere difference in geography, and instead differs due to the goals about how the developers wanted the player to react to the game's world and the music that brings it to life.
 

Mman235

Member
Western AAA games skew things against them by so often going for generic movie scores that incorporate what's hot in cinema right now and have no style of their own (but there are still great western AAA soundtracks that avoid this). Even already heavily ambient games can fall to that; fuck what happened to Tomb Raider's soundtrack in the reboot, for all my issues with it what they did to the series music is the one thing about the game that legit pisses me off. In some sense Japanese music is more consistent in falling to that temptation less (although it's probably as much the case that there's just less of it), but outside of that there's plenty of brilliant Western and Eastern soundtracks.
 
Jeremy Soule, Martin O'Donnell and Mick Gordon are shining examples of the best of the West. Steve Jablonsky I'd say is up there too for his Gears of War 2 soundtrack (which is really, really underrated).

The problem is that like, 90% of Western composers implement forgettable Hollywood scores. It takes talent to make a good, memorable song.

I don't buy the whole "it can't be memorable for it to be really emotional and fit the scene" defense that I tend to see. It's just crap music.
 
It's not even a contest; Eastern (Japanese) developers win this one no questions asked.

There's a few good Western composers like Richard Jacques and Tommy Tallarico, David Wise etc., but the number of great Japanese composers just dwarfs them. And the number of memorable Japanese game songs, particularly from the 8-bit through 32/64-bit era, just destroys the comparable Western catalog.
 

RK128

Member
PS2 Ratchet and Clank soundtrack doesn't get nearly enough love.

Sorry to not mention that man X(. Here are the links to the series soundtrack in case anyone is interested :).

PS2:
Ratchet and Clank
Ratchet and Clank 2: Going Commando
Ratchet and Clank 3: Up Your Arsenal
Ratchet Dreadlock

PS3:
Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction
Ratchet and Clank: Quest for Booty
Ratchet and Clank: A Crack in Time
Ratchet and Clank: Into the Nexus

While latter games in the series got more 'tone' heavy, the soundtrack for the series is filled with energy, catchy beats and a great feel that matches the series funny charm :).
 
I have never looked forward to a Westen game just for the music like I am for Persona5. That's not to say Westen Devs aren't talented and use music effectively, it just seems more a part of the experience instead of defining it.
 
Sorry to not mention that man X(. Here are the links to the series soundtrack in case anyone is interested :).

PS2:
Ratchet and Clank
Ratchet and Clank 2: Going Commando
Ratchet and Clank 3: Up Your Arsenal
Ratchet Dreadlock

PS3:
Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction
Ratchet and Clank: Quest for Booty
Ratchet and Clank: A Crack in Time
Ratchet and Clank: Into the Nexus

While latter games in the series got more 'tone' heavy, the soundtrack for the series is filled with energy, catchy beats and a great feel that matches the series funny charm :).


Into The Nexus's soundtrack is gross tho
imo
 

Falk

that puzzling face
I don't think either side's objectively 'better' than the other, since they serve fundamentally different purposes. What's not been brought up in the thread* is how non-Japanese games also trump Japanese games in terms of interactive or dynamic music. The style, largely ambient, with sweeping orchestral pads, lends well to adding or subtracting elements according to what's going on screen. Red Dead Redemption and GTA V are stellar examples of this in action even with soundtracks that aren't purely orchestral, bringing in and cutting elements dynamically based on the action. I think both sides have a lot to learn from each other, and if the western audio focus groups like GANG and IASIG is anything to go by (I'm not aware of any Japanese equivalent) cultural and linguistic barriers are a very real thing between the two halves of this dichotomy.

*(This is another generalization like many in the thread, since many Japanese games do tend to do layering or branching stuff, and of course plenty of non-Japanese games don't)

As for how much emphasis is placed on the music and which objectively stands better on its own, how many orchestral concerts, cover bands, etc are dedicated to music by Japanese game composers, vs not? ;p

We're talking about everything from Zelda Symphony of the Goddess, to Pokemon Symphony, to Distant Worlds, to a bazillion other Final Fantasy concerts, and a few outliers here and there like Bravely Default live concert (more of a REVO thing though) to the occasional Mitsuda themed concert, etc. Even the multi-franchise productions like PLAY, A Night in Fantasia, Video Games Live (still going strong) and Video Game Orchestra concerts slant heavily towards the Japanese side.

The point was that it's often just plain crappy music. Like, Dragon's Dogma's soundtrack, for instance, is just plain bad, especially the new Dark Arisen theme.

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I can't listen to cinematic scores. I just find them completely uninteresting. Thus why I mostly prefer music from Eastern devs.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Neither, because anyone who makes statements about one having something the other doesn't is always wrong.

Wait, that doesn't make any sense, because you either don't know anything about music, or you do, the quantity of knowledge being irrelevant. I can draw a Venn diagram for this if it helps. D:
 

Bergerac

Member
I don't trust the musical understanding of people who can only listen to anything that is packed with melody. That 'like a nice tune'.

Overly busy and devoid of any meaning. It's a 'tune' at best. It's not something written to encapsulate a feeling. That the overly written melody is memorable due to a note pattern and you've heard it during a moment you've great nostalgia for is not the same as actually feeling the music because the music brought it out of you. It can't effectively convey any emotions, it's too busy throwing notes at you in logic, in a key. It's too busy being theoretical. The tune is written more to stay in line with the key and display all the notes within than to actually say anything.

Might as well listen to arpeggiated synths. Absolutely devoid of any emotional resonance or decision making in writing.

At this point I'm going to throw out the name of a much forgotten man, I mentioned him in every music thread - Nathan Grigg (F.E.A.R./F.E.A.R. 2/Condemned). In fact F2's OST is the one thing absolutely above reproach.

Nobody sounds like him.
 
there are too many good soundtracks that work amazing in game from both sides to really compare well, from skyrim to final fantasy vii

One thing I dont think I've seen a western dev do is frame the music in the way eastern devs will. Like Persona 4 and Guilty Gear.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Overly busy and devoid of any meaning. It's a 'tune' at best. It's not something written to encapsulate a feeling. That the overly written melody is memorable due to a note pattern and you've heard it during a moment you've great nostalgia for is not the same as actually feeling the music because the music brought it out of you. It can't effectively convey any emotions, it's too busy throwing notes at you in logic, in a key. It's too busy being theoretical. The tune is written more to stay in line with the key and display all the notes within than to actually say anything.

Might as well listen to arpeggiated synths. Absolutely devoid of any emotional resonance or decision making in writing.

Do you listen to drone music?
 

GrizzNKev

Banned
Wait, that doesn't make any sense, because you either don't know anything about music, or you do, the quantity of knowledge being irrelevant. I can draw a Venn diagram for this if it helps. D:

I meant in response to the OP, east v west.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
The tune is written more to stay in line with the key and display all the notes within than to actually say anything.

Do you listen to drone music?

Probably Schoenberg

I meant in response to the OP, east v west.

Well, when it's "do" vs "don't", if the fraction of people who do is X, then the fraction of people who don't is 1 - X. There's no in between! Which is why when you said you're neither, it's a theoretical impossibility and one that needs resolution, much like a poised dominant chord loaded with tensions.
 
I dont remember the last western game with a memorable track. Maybe Killzone 3's intro music? That was pretty amazing.

Meanwhile, just counting only Nintendo, eastern soundtracks are way more memorable and enjoyable to me IMO.
 

kevm3

Member
Overall, I found Eastern way better, although they are now headed in the same direction as those generic 'epic', movie-scoreish sounding or ambient-type soundtracks. SNES/PSX era had the height of Japanese soundtracks IMO. The soundtracks of many of those games STILL stick in my mind even after all these years.

I find most western soundtracks inoffensive and something that sort of fills the quiet, but they never really define scenes for me like a Mitsuda or Hamauza soundtrack would.
 

Dice//

Banned
Eastern Devs aim to make amazing game soundtracks. Western Devs aim to make amazing movie soundtracks

Yeah I've noticed this and I'm glad a lot of others see, well, hear it too.

Western OSTs sound like films, and Eastern OSTs sound much more melodic -- often like you could put lyrics to it (which serves some of those 'vocal albums' that they put out).
 

danwarb

Member
I don't trust the musical understanding of people who can only listen to anything that is packed with melody. That 'like a nice tune'.

Overly busy and devoid of any meaning. It's a 'tune' at best. It's not something written to encapsulate a feeling. That the overly written melody is memorable due to a note pattern and you've heard it during a moment you've great nostalgia for is not the same as actually feeling the music because the music brought it out of you. It can't effectively convey any emotions, it's too busy throwing notes at you in logic, in a key. It's too busy being theoretical. The tune is written more to stay in line with the key and display all the notes within than to actually say anything.

Might as well listen to arpeggiated synths. Absolutely devoid of any emotional resonance or decision making in writing.

Nah. It's much tougher to write appropriately powerful, original and emotive "nice tunes" than the forgettable droning chord walls manufactured for cinema and games these days. Everyone plays it safe.

Would you say that John Williams film scores are devoid of emotional resonance and decision making?
 
Hotline Miami is the only good western game with good music that comes to mind.

Eastern game music all the way.

EDIT: HOW DID I FORGET ABOUT OUR LORD AND SAVIOR DAVID WISE

but besides him, that's it
 
Personally, when I compare the breadth of memorable soundtracks from the East, it trumps the West by a large margin.

The music just feels more finely tuned and specific to the world created by the developers. It sticks with you longer and is more easily identifiable where as I struggle to associate many Western scores with their respective title.

This is just generally speaking of course, when you hear Uncharteds theme or Halos you aren't going to confuse them with anything else and they are great OSTs.

Its all wonderful though.

Edit: I'll also add that Japanese composers are great at giving you an unexpected sound and as a result a heightened emotional response from the player. Bloodbornes soundtrack for example contains songs that elicit excitment and fear simulatenously to great effect, such as The Hunter, Lullaby for Mergo and The Witch from Hemwick
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
I always find the "western music is just film music" very weird because it often seems like a jab but I dont know why it would be?
 
I meant in response to the OP, east v west.

I didn't mean vs as in they were in competition or one against the other, I'm strictly speaking about characteristics and how music is used differently depending on where (and who) develops the game. While generalizing can be a simple way to look at a topic like this, there are elements that pertain to both, or just one, the other, or neither. While some may have a preference (I certainly do, which the OP makes obvious), that's not what I was trying to get at when I made the thread.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
I meant in response to the OP, east v west.

Speaking of "western music is film music", I personally felt that at some points Hitoshi Sakimoto's work tends to get very close to John Williams, especially Star Wars. Which made Valkyria Chronicles and FFXII awesome.

How's that for a counter-generalization.
 
Disclaimer: generalizations abound

Japan makes soundtracks that I would listen to independent of the game because they're so melodic. The West likes to make soundtracks that compliment the scene or action.

In other words, Japan aims to make it's games fun and the West is too obsessed with making it an immersive package. I've played about eight Assassin's Creed games, and literally the ONLY track to resonate with me whatsoever was ACII's music for just running around the town. No one talks about AC music because it's so damn unremarkable.

If this were the case for something like a Final Fantasy game it would be riots in the streets. Tales of Hearts R had a pretty underwhelming score and I noticed it for sure. It's easily that games weakest point and people ppint it out I think because Japanese games are held to a higher standard. Even this "b-tier JRPG series" on a handheld with clearly a small budget gets a rougher time then Assassin's Creed.

Sly 2 had that awesome club beat. Ratchet and Clank has some good tunes. Uncharted's theme is pretty iconic... I'm struggling to think of specific western tracks I revere, where as I look at a single game such as Super Mario Galaxy or Gravity Rush or for fucks sake even a game as trite as Hyperdimension Neptunia and I'm already more impressed.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Disclaimer: generalizations abound

Japan makes soundtracks that I would listen to independent of the game because they're so melodic. The West likes to make soundtracks that compliment the scene or action.

In other words, Japan aims to make it's games fun and the West is too obsessed with making it an immersive package. I've played about eight Assassin's Creed games, and literally the ONLY track to resonate with me whatsoever was ACII's music for just running around the town. No one talks about AC music because it's so damn unremarkable.

If this were the case for something like a Final Fantasy game it would be riots in the streets. Tales of Hearts R had a pretty underwhelming score and I noticed it for sure. It's easily that games weakest point and people ppint it out I think because Japanese games are held to a higher standard.

Sly 2 had that awesome club beat. Ratchet and Clank has some good tunes. Uncharted's theme is pretty iconic... I'm struggling to think of specific western tracks I revere, where as I look at a single game such as Super Mario Galaxy or Gravity Rush or for fucks sake even a game as trite as Hyperdimension Neptunia and I'm already more impressed.

People talk about the ACII soundtrack all the time.
 
People talk about the ACII soundtrack all the time.
I would too parts of it are very good. But then I remember when Rogue and Unity came put I ctrl f searched "music" and "soundtrack" and "score" on nearly every review and not a single one mentioned anything. Clearly there's a different expectation because that will not happen whatsoever with something like Persona 5
 
In the West, we have Mick Gordon

In the East, we do not have Mick Gordon

So.

Well.

Mick Gordon.



Nah. Western devs tend to run with complimentary music that aims to strengthen the overall moment of a given game. When you hear something like Ezio's Family or Plains of Death, it really helps set the tone and mood.

Overall, Western games tend to focus more on crafting these really awesome, emotional moments. Every ingredient working towards a cohesive whole. This is great video game music.

Japanese games take a different tack, where music tends to be more tune-driven, but that doesn't make it "better game music." It's foolish and ignorant to say so.

That's no different from what Japanese games do. In an intense moment, shit picks up. In a depressing moment things calm down.

Example: Nobuo Uematsu - Breaking Through South Gate
 

Soltype

Member
I personally can't stand 90% of modern game music, but Japan has always made better VGM.There are some really good western composers, but they're music isn't as good as the stuff they used to make.Look at Jepser Kyd, none of his modern stuff is half as good as his genesis output.
 
Another East vs West music thread, another gaggle of silly billies what ain't know of the wonders that are Gonzalez, Steele, Jackson, or Evans.

Yeah, see, I find it really distracting, but I didn't grow up with those games, so I don't suffer from nostalgia.

I...have to say that is a tall order, even back in the older PC days, unless you mean really, REALLY back in the 80s given the above. If so, I take your word at face value.

As a leitmotif man true and thru, so I remember nothing of Streets of Whiterun or Ezio's Family despite multiple listenings. They are built to be subservient to everything else going on there, not striding tall with those other facets. Like so, doing all that and being unnervingly brilliant event-driven (the exact term escapes me atm) with all the immense mood reflection while at the same time doing powerful melodies, the perfect tone, the perfect movement segueway... Yes, this is very much real, and still 15 years out, better.
 
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