I AM JOHN!
Banned
Except this person quit.practice02 said:
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"My life at Rockstar games" blog about working conditions at San Diego during RDR
- Thread starter Visualante
- Start date
Sharkington
Banned
I'm old enough to realize that something like "normal interview etiquette" is pretty damn low on the list of things that matter and are worth paying any mind to.catapult37 said:
Give unemployment a try for a while and see how much you care about an interviewer buying you lunch.
Sharkington
Banned
True, but they payed for the flight. I think that's good enough, but apparently that's not the way things are normally done, so I'm out of my mind.CrankyJay said:
Steve Youngblood
Member
That would be a valid observation if the guy was down on his luck and anxious to jump on the first opportunity to get a paycheck. Instead, it's coming from the perspective of someone who felt he had the luxury of being picky in choosing the right career opportunity.Sharkington said:
The lunch thing was just his way of articulating what made him doubt the other job was for him as he saw him having to pay as a failure in the operation of the company, which was ultimately why he drew the parallel to begin with.
They really need to be working on both I'd imagine. Unless Agent is canned or move to another studio. Last gen there was a different Rockstar studio working on it.Redbeard said:
I dont see how this is different from any other job in the art/entertainment field. My first job out of school as a graphic designer was the same. I only got paid for 40 hours but the only difference was my days started off at 10 hours and only went up from there.
I had last minute pitches, had to stay until 3am more than a few times because we didnt get assignments until 6pm for something due the next day. Vague instructions, inefficiency. Its not really any different many other places. Its hard to find a place NOT like this in some way really.
But I guess his point was that at such a big company he expected things to not be run this way which I wouldnt agree with. I think with bigger companies youre not treated much like an individual just that guy doing that thing for them that youre getting paid for. Thats why I'll never work in a "corporate" environment.
I had last minute pitches, had to stay until 3am more than a few times because we didnt get assignments until 6pm for something due the next day. Vague instructions, inefficiency. Its not really any different many other places. Its hard to find a place NOT like this in some way really.
But I guess his point was that at such a big company he expected things to not be run this way which I wouldnt agree with. I think with bigger companies youre not treated much like an individual just that guy doing that thing for them that youre getting paid for. Thats why I'll never work in a "corporate" environment.
beat
Member
He had two offers on the table; he wasn't forced to take whatever he could.Sharkington said:
That said, the start of the story is also a lesson that the interview process is also for you to know what you're potentially getting into. Ask what your responsibilities will be. Ask what the turnover's been like. Ask how well the last few milestones went. Ask about their processes, both to see if they've got their heads on straight and if you can work within those processes. If you can, ask what the hours are like. (Though it's probably wiser not to give the impression that you're out the door at 5pm every day.) If the interview somehow didn't cover it, but it went well otherwise, ask to meet who you'll be working with day-to-day.
practice02
Banned
It can't be a little of both and they can't be just as shameful?Steve Youngblood said:
It seems like their is a period of new guy time that you have to put up with at a job that he was unwilling to tolerate. I have had many jobs and one thing I've learned is you can't just go in and start beating the old beehive to change things. You have to put on your bee suit and bee hat and work for the queen a little bit before you can taste that sweet delicious bee nectar.
jred2k said:
That really boggles my mind. It does explain the early endgame missions being so simplistic (crow shooting, etc). Although to be fair I actually enjoyed the change of pace a lot - until it all went shooting gallery again.
I suspect a lot of people underestimate how demanding and draining creative work in the game industry can be. It becomes especially hard if you are fighting management or culture, let alone working the equivalent of a second job with overtime (I can't even imagine what that'd do to me).
catapult37
Member
Sharkington said:
I'm just saying that the kinds of things he notes as omissions are perfectly legit for what is essentially a corporate office environment. The lack of orientation procedures is a great example. Certainly anyone in need of a job in this economy would not scoff at such things when an offer is on the table, but that wasn't the case here.
catapult37
Member
practice02 said:
I'm getting a real buzz off this post.
It doesn't surprise me that RDR came out of that environment.
It's the very definition of a product being brute forced. The components of a game that cannot be done through brute force (gameplay) are the low points, whilst the environment is spectacular. And when you've got a couple hundred people working 12 hour days for a year, it's basically impossible not to have a spectacular, large environment.
Reading this makes me happy I didn't actually pay for RDR though. Thanks Choc!
It's the very definition of a product being brute forced. The components of a game that cannot be done through brute force (gameplay) are the low points, whilst the environment is spectacular. And when you've got a couple hundred people working 12 hour days for a year, it's basically impossible not to have a spectacular, large environment.
Reading this makes me happy I didn't actually pay for RDR though. Thanks Choc!
practice02
Banned
Sometimes a little honesty stings.catapult37 said:
I don't think RDR's weakness are evidence of a rocky development so much as indicative of the genre it's in.legend166 said:
Maybe Agent will be the game where Rockstar finally do a very short, very focused single player campaign within a sandbox environment.
Three Leaf Clover is the best mission of all the GTA4 content, and better than anything in RDR. Of course it also appears to be the most demanding in terms of the work that went into it. I've spoken to a few people about it, and the consensus always seems to be that players would prefer twenty missions of that quality to the eighty of mixed quality they put in their games.
tassletine
Member
He doesn't seem to understand that the way people work is intertwined with the final result. He doesn't have enough of a top down view of Rockstar's loose world building process, to criticise it properly.
For instance he complains about the fact that the other artist was poor but fast, but doesn't seem to understand that he could (and probably was) only given a portion of graphics to refine. A section of rough objects pulled from a much larger pile, that the original artist did many more of, at high speed.
For instance he complains about the fact that the other artist was poor but fast, but doesn't seem to understand that he could (and probably was) only given a portion of graphics to refine. A section of rough objects pulled from a much larger pile, that the original artist did many more of, at high speed.
KingJ2002
Member
I can definitely relate to this guy... and especially the hack work that goes on, the "job security" mentality... uggh
you feel like you entered a damned if you do / damned if you dont situation.
but at the end of the day... as long as you don't get comfortable you can walk away with a clear head... a little bitter but you don't have to champion change that clearly the company doesn't want.
...
this blog post might work against him though... i can't imagine him finding his next job as easy because he aired out rockstar's bullshit
you feel like you entered a damned if you do / damned if you dont situation.
but at the end of the day... as long as you don't get comfortable you can walk away with a clear head... a little bitter but you don't have to champion change that clearly the company doesn't want.
...
this blog post might work against him though... i can't imagine him finding his next job as easy because he aired out rockstar's bullshit
John Rabbit
Banned
RDR is a good game though; and i really hate westerns and clunky game mechanics.legend166 said:
Yea I agree with that last bit. You never bad mouth your previous employer especially in such a public space like the internet. You do it at a bar after work with your buddies and even then you have to be careful.KingJ2002 said:
A friend of mine I was working with was trying to find another job and when he told me he was talking shit about our company during his interviews I almost slapped him. Yea they'll laugh and scoff with you but when all is said and done theyre gonna think "...wait... he'll probably do the same to us."
stuminus3 said:
I don't think so. I work for a major investment company. My team's responsible for a small part of the web site, the web site in all most likely a much bigger project than a video game. There are probably 30 teams working on various pieces, maybe 400 or so people. Somehow, it's all run very efficiently, and working conditions are actually very good.
Maybe R* should look into Agile Development.................................... or maybe not.
stuminus3 said:
Don't know where you've worked but this isn't normal at all. At least not at a decent place of employment. If someone does something wrong expect them to be talked to but nothing said, if all true, even suggest the responses gotten were warranted. There are also to many reports from other former employees regarding Rockstar Games and how they treat people. It's not about being treated special but treated decently and expecting common sense to be apart of the situation.
Why would that include Agent?JaseC said:
LA Noire has been an infamous cash sink, but I was surprised to see the $70m number. However when really considered, they're also not fucking around with their casting, I recognized most of the actors in the tech demo video for example. Those guys can't be coming cheap.
$70m seems like a lot, but they burnt thru $40m in three years, and it's been three years since then, and the studio would have had to expand for asset production I'd imagine. Seems a lot higher than I'd have thought, but really not that surprising.
All that being said, it looks like something really special to me, I hope it can make money.
Visualante
Member
Just a heads up this thread isn't about Agent. It's about working conditions at Rockstar San Diego or other Rockstar studios. Thanks.
SketchTheArtist
Member
StuBurns said:
With a 100 millions budget cost for RDR, I'm not surprised. Still, it's a shame Rockstar likes to waste so much money. It's the designers and the artists who end up paying the price when it's all over.
StuBurns said:
I wonder if they ramped up production even more after 3 years just to get moving on the project, the tech is very interesting and we're basically dealing with the same high concept bullshit that people think must succeed or else we won't get any more of this stuff but they've shown absolutely no actual gameplay, and McNamara isn't exactly a director who keeps a keen eye on basic gameplay mechanics, and I'm not talking about some fucking dialogue wheel, but everything from basic character controls, gunplay and level design.
Shiggy said:
Uh oh.
Shin Johnpv
Member
theBishop said:
Maybe not to those countries, but a good chunk of the film and tv industry has run to Canada.
Superblatt
Member
This just in: working at a video game production company isn't like working at Brainasiam. That is, unless, you have a car bed.
Visualante
Member
First page has it quotes.Karram said:
cultofweaver
Member
Shin Johnpv said:
Where those films and TV shows are made by unionised Canadian workers. Unions have nothing to do with that, the migration of production is all down to exchange rates and tax breaks. Canada's down with the proletariat's struggle.
The stuff he writes about working conditions and pay is a big sign that the industry needs unionisation, and on a wider scale, that the US needs legislation to protect worker's rights. But since even a bill to offer free healthcare to people can't pass there I don't think anyone posting on this board can expect to see anything like the European Working Time directive in the US in their lifetime.
I AM JOHN!
Banned
Thank God someone saved the blog. I really hate when people pull this shit of writing something potentially inflammatory only to pull it when people pick up on it. Stand by what you wrote or never hit publish to begin with, you pussy.
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